Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Any idea why so much heavier?
Diesels run at far higher compression ratios than gasoline engines and the firing impulse is much more violent. This drives a need for beefier components, which weigh more.
Any idea why so much heavier?
The Superior XP 400 makes 205 HP on auto gas. If you get the high compression version it is 215, but Avgas only.
How picky would the aiframe be in terms of where the weight goes?
I mean, if I put an R409 in, and want to make up some weight, does the position matter a whole lot?
Can you hang weights in strategic locations to make up enough weight for example? A second battery could give you 15-20 pounds, but obviously the mass isn't centered in the middle of your engine ...
How picky would the aiframe be in terms of where the weight goes?
I mean, if I put an R409 in, and want to make up some weight, does the position matter a whole lot?
Can you hang weights in strategic locations to make up enough weight for example? A second battery could give you 15-20 pounds, but obviously the mass isn't centered in the middle of your engine ...
I'm not as brave as others and intend to conform to the prototype, but +$40K for an engine for a 2-seat experimental aircraft doesn't go down easy. I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready to purchase the engine Van's will have worked out a deal with Lycoming given the positive response to the RV-14 introduction.
Have you considered the Superior XP 400? It is angle valve engine very similar to the IO 390 and Superior will install the P Mags during the build.
Don
Here it is, read through some of this if you're curious about the timing issue ... maybe someone with better knowledge than I could clarify whether that means issues with EI ...
http://mooneyspace.com/topic/5426-a3b6d-vs-a3b6/
"What props are apporved for use on the IO-382?"
I don't know about approved, but I believe ASP is promoting a package with the Whirlwind 200RV with the 1000$ combo discount, much like Van's does with its Lycoming and propeller combo purchases.
"What are the advantages vs the IO-390?"
cheaper to purchase and, more importantly, to overhaul, most likely. IO-390 cylinders are very expensive as I recall. Also ASP will offer options on the engine you would not normally get by buying a 390 from Van'S such as having it delivered with electronic ignition and other customizations.
As a side note, I was reading that the IO-390-A3B6 has limits on timing that could make it less EI friendly (though I'm no expert, I could be wrong, but that'S the way I read it) ... I think the timing issue was being talked about on a Mooney forum.
"All other "advantages" are speculative without facts or data."
There is nothing speculative about saying that ASP will deliver you an engine with your choice of EI, flow matched cylinders, the colour of your choice, whatever options you might choose, etc.
Whether or not you value these things is of course entirely up to you, but those are some advantages that someone, somewhere may value.
It is true we don't have all the data on the engine, but then, I never speculated on it either.
It is true that after the headaches of applying modifications to fit the 382 in a -14(A), you may be no further ahead at all, at least the way things look now. Maybe someone will develop and sell a baffling kit for the -14, for example, and make the cost more acceptable? Who knows ...
Options are nice, that is all.
That being said, I just saw a few 200 hp IO-360's for sale on trade-a-plane in the 25K range, so it is nice to have that option as well!
Stoney bought a factory new IO-390 through Lycon and they gave him credit for the mags and installed dual Pmags. There are many other Lycoming dealers who sell new Lycoming engines other than Vans, some of these dealers are engine shops and they can do any mods that you want done to you're new engine. The cheapest place to buy a new Lycoming is though A.E.R.O.
When I was looking for an engine last year at Oshkosh, I checked with all major players. Ly-Con did have the best price at that time. I know they had some good pricing from Lycoming, as Van's did. Base price was $31,000. Then I switched to PMags. If I would have stopped there, it would have come in less than Van's price. However, for better performance and fuel economy, per their recommendations I did a few other mods. They were fair with me and price wise, they had the best price with mods as well. They connected everything and ran it two different times on their Dyno machines. I'm no engine expert, I asked people that know better than me and I am happy with the choices I made. Now if I can just get an engine mount to get it up off the garage floor...
The Superior XP-400 looks like a better choice than the Lycoming 390 IMHO.
The Superior XP-400 looks like a better choice than the Lycoming 390 IMHO.
Since the taildragger version has been flying there has been some discussion of the possibility that the IO-360 taildragger version is faster that the IO-390 tri-gear.
Great discussions...very helpful. I'm sure there is no such thing as a "better" engine for all builders, just a "better" engine for individuals who may have different priorities. I will probably not use the IO-390 unless it can be built to run on MOGAS. The XP-400 can be built to run on MOGAS (less horsepower), So can the ECi 370. However, the IO-390 is the gold standard for the RV-14 that everything will be measured against (IMHO).
I too have been challenged by the lack of engine options for the RV-14A. I too want the flexibility to use mogas. After doing some comparison shopping at Oshkosh, I pulled the trigger on the XP-400. The cylinders are the same dimensions as the IO-390 so the FF kit should work with the possible exception of the exhaust as the cold air sump is standard on the XP-400 and not the IO-390. The price was competitive with Van's special pricing. I bought the engine without fuel or electrical systems (which you can't do from Van's) so I can install the Protek Performance EFii system. According to Robert Paisley 9.0 or less compression ratio engines can operate safely on mogas with the EFii system. I went to Oshkosh with the intent of buying the IO-390 and a Hartzel prop to get the best pricing, but ended up with the XP-400. I intend to use the Whirlwind 74RV due to all the disclaimers and RPM "avoid" areas with the Hartzel. The package should be about 20 pounds lighter and will shift c.g. a little aft. I'm thinking it will help offset the weight of the nose wheel.