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RV-10 Zip Tips

MarkAJ

MarkAJ

Member
I am thinking ahead here, but I was wondering if anyone building an RV-10 is going with the Zip Tips, I have sent them an email a week ago
and they haven't responded, I have 2 questions, 1) how much do they cost, 2) are they going to be difficult to wire (so many lights)

I'm currently working on my cost analysis spreadsheet, so if anyone out there knows the cost of Zip Tips for an RV-10, that would be great
 
The new Vegas Zip Tips, which is the top of the line with the upgraded lights, ground illumination, anti collision light and all the other regular lights are $5,060 per the invoice I received day before yesterday. That includes Shipping. Save 4% if you mail a check versus paying the credit card fee, $4880.
 
I built mine with Zip Tips - not Vegas, but the style from 4 years ago. Love them. Very, very bright and the wiring really wasn't that hard. There are a lot of wires, but having a single device on each wing that does everything is pretty great. I also installed a tail strobe just for the heck of it and you can sync all three so you blink like an airliner.

Flew after dark tonight - the illumination both in the air and on the ground is terrific. (Caveat - I was flying into a Class C airport with good lighting)
 
Question: How was the fit regarding aerodynamics? Did you have to reshape the aft edge or aft trailing edge? That has to happen sometimes with the regular-issue Vans wingtips.
 
scrollF4 said:
Question: How was the fit regarding aerodynamics? Did you have to reshape the aft edge or aft trailing edge? That has to happen sometimes with the regular-issue Vans wingtips.
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You will likely have to split the rear where it aligns with the ailerons to get it to match. Not a big deal. It’s a bit of glass work, but by the time you are ready to install them you will be a pro with fiberglass
 
From my neighbor -

What about the AeroLED's Aerosun VXi wingtips? Available in fiberglass or carbon fiber. Developed by AeroLED's (a U.S. based company) in conjunction with Van's (and then Van's left them at the altar during bankruptcy). No swoopy winglet-like design like the ZipTips, but then no worry about altered, untested aerodynamics or possible increased wing bending either. Essentially the same profile as the stock Van's tips. Great illumination, no electrical noise in my installation. IMG_0585.JPGIMG_8004.jpeg
 
280FX said:
From my neighbor -

What about the AeroLED's Aerosun VXi wingtips? Available in fiberglass or carbon fiber. Developed by AeroLED's (a U.S. based company) in conjunction with Van's (and then Van's left them at the altar during bankruptcy). No swoopy winglet-like design like the ZipTips, but then no worry about altered, untested aerodynamics or possible increased wing bending either. Essentially the same profile as the stock Van's tips. Great illumination, no electrical noise in my installation. View attachment 72882View attachment 72884
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Thank You, some questions 1) Did you go with fiberglass or carbon fiber, 2) how much did they cost, 3 how was the fit (did it require alot of work to fit, 4) how much did they weigh
 
I just received my Vegas tips a few weeks ago and yes they are very cool @ $4700 shipped. It includes a pigtail for the lights and you only need to run the wire through the wing, write not included which they really should at that price. The next question to ask is thing method of attachment, hinges vs. screws and nut plates. Any comments on pros and cons there? I am leaning toward hinges but not committed yet.
 
280FX said:
From my neighbor -

What about the AeroLED's Aerosun VXi wingtips? ...
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MarkAJ said:
Thank You, some questions 1) Did you go with fiberglass or carbon fiber, 2) how much did they cost, 3 how was the fit (did it require alot of work to fit, 4) how much did they weigh
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280FX is posting info about his neighbor's plane.

His neighbor is no longer on VAF.
 
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I'm stealing that RV-10ER. lol.

I might also try RV-10NEO on the cowling...Since Lycoming Thunderbolt asked for my SDS manual and said they have never had a request for that build configuration before....lol
 
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MarkAJ said:
Thank You, some questions 1) Did you go with fiberglass or carbon fiber, 2) how much did they cost, 3 how was the fit (did it require alot of work to fit, 4) how much did they weigh
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I will check with my neighbor and get back with you.
 
MarkAJ said:
Thank You, some questions 1) Did you go with fiberglass or carbon fiber, 2) how much did they cost, 3 how was the fit (did it require alot of work to fit, 4) how much did they weigh
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Here are his answers:

I received the first production set of these wingtips from AeroLED's, so my experience is likely to be considerably different than someone buying them today.

1. Carbon fiber. You can see some of the exposed carbon fiber in the "RV-10ER" logo on the wingtip. We would have exposed more, but that would have required a redesign of the paint scheme and the early production carbon fiber was not of finish quality over the entire wingtip.
2. There was a promotion through Van's when these were first announced. You will need to reach out to Ryan at AeroLED's for current pricing. <[email protected]>
3. The fit and finish on the first production set was not great. I did a good bit of rework and provided a lot of feedback to Nate at AeroLED's for product improvement, which I believe they incorporated. I also understand they are working on an entirely new set of molds (they may have already done this) to improve the fit and finish of the wingtips. Again, talk with them for the latest info.
4. Check with AeroLED's for the weight. I know the carbon fiber tips themselves were quite a bit lighter than the Van's fiberglass tips, but the light modules on the VXi's are pretty robust (large heat sink).
 
I now understand the rant on zip tips web site about people copying their patented work, depending on what AeroLED has to say on my email I sent to them
I will make a decision of which one to go with, I prefer the look of AeroLED's lights and the swoop of the Zip Tips, however the price of the zip tips are quite hard
to justify.
 
280FX said:
Here are his answers:

I received the first production set of these wingtips from AeroLED's, so my experience is likely to be considerably different than someone buying them today.

1. Carbon fiber. You can see some of the exposed carbon fiber in the "RV-10ER" logo on the wingtip. We would have exposed more, but that would have required a redesign of the paint scheme and the early production carbon fiber was not of finish quality over the entire wingtip.
2. There was a promotion through Van's when these were first announced. You will need to reach out to Ryan at AeroLED's for current pricing. <[email protected]>
3. The fit and finish on the first production set was not great. I did a good bit of rework and provided a lot of feedback to Nate at AeroLED's for product improvement, which I believe they incorporated. I also understand they are working on an entirely new set of molds (they may have already done this) to improve the fit and finish of the wingtips. Again, talk with them for the latest info.
4. Check with AeroLED's for the weight. I know the carbon fiber tips themselves were quite a bit lighter than the Van's fiberglass tips, but the light modules on the VXi's are pretty robust (large heat sink).
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Should also mention that the Vxi are more "kits" than finished products. They need to be assembled and finished and there is quite a bit of work to do just in the wiring and the install of the light in the actual wingtip. I got lured in by the idea of the carbon fibre but the verdict is yet to come in on how nice the finished product will look when I am done. I definitely added 50-100 hrs of labor with these on my end.


 
cactusman said:
Should also mention that the Vxi are more "kits" than finished products. They need to be assembled and finished and there is quite a bit of work to do just in the wiring and the install of the light in the actual wingtip. I got lured in by the idea of the carbon fibre but the verdict is yet to come in on how nice the finished product will look when I am done. I definitely added 50-100 hrs of labor with these on my end.


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Well that's bad news, I guess I will take AeroLED's off the list, thanks for being frank about your experience.
 
MarkAJ said:
Well that's bad news, I guess I will take AeroLED's off the list, thanks for being frank about your experience.
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Again, from my neighbor with the AeroSun VXi wingtips on his RV-10 -

If you think the ZipTips are a 5 minute, bolt on affair - I think you will be sadly disappointed. The three current choices of wingtips (stock, ZipTips and VXi's) all have pros and cons and none of them are plug and play.

Not to sound snarky, but you don't even have a pilot's license yet and you are worrying about what wingtips to put on an airplane that you haven't started building that will likely take 2-10+ years for you to build. I think you probably should focus on determining whether or not you have the time, skills and money to learn to fly first.
 
280FX said:
Again, from my neighbor with the AeroSun VXi wingtips on his RV-10 -

If you think the ZipTips are a 5 minute, bolt on affair - I think you will be sadly disappointed. The three current choices of wingtips (stock, ZipTips and VXi's) all have pros and cons and none of them are plug and play.

Not to sound snarky, but you don't even have a pilot's license yet and you are worrying about what wingtips to put on an airplane that you haven't started building that will likely take 2-10+ years for you to build. I think you probably should focus on determining whether or not you have the time, skills and money to learn to fly first.
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Well said.
 
280FX said:
Again, from my neighbor with the AeroSun VXi wingtips on his RV-10 -

If you think the ZipTips are a 5 minute, bolt on affair - I think you will be sadly disappointed. The three current choices of wingtips (stock, ZipTips and VXi's) all have pros and cons and none of them are plug and play.

Not to sound snarky, but you don't even have a pilot's license yet and you are worrying about what wingtips to put on an airplane that you haven't started building that will likely take 2-10+ years for you to build. I think you probably should focus on determining whether or not you have the time, skills and money to learn to fly first.
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My emp kit came a full month before my check ride, flew it 14 months later, just sayin’
 
How can these manufacturers charge this much for a product that requires a whole lot of work @ $5000 for tips they should be plug and play!
I don't know, the more I learn here the more I'm becoming disillusioned. My spreadsheet is already up to $374,399 and I'm not finished!
 
MarkAJ said:
How can these manufacturers charge this much for a product that requires a whole lot of work @ $5000 for tips they should be plug and play!
I don't know, the more I learn here the more I'm becoming disillusioned. My spreadsheet is already up to $374,399 and I'm not finished!
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Not to step on anyone’s dream but getting a private pilot license and then purchasing a decent used aircraft RV or certified would be a nice starting point and probably cost half of that. You could start a 10 Emp kit on the side and satisfy both itches.
 
MarkAJ said:
How can these manufacturers charge this much for a product that requires a whole lot of work @ $5000 for tips they should be plug and play!
I don't know, the more I learn here the more I'm becoming disillusioned. My spreadsheet is already up to $374,399 and I'm not finished!
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Would love to see that spreadsheet, builder assist?
 
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MarkAJ said:
How can these manufacturers charge this much for a product that requires a whole lot of work @ $5000 for tips they should be plug and play!
I don't know, the more I learn here the more I'm becoming disillusioned. My spreadsheet is already up to $374,399 and I'm not finished!
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$374K? I'll sell you a finished, painted RV-10. You can save all of the intermediate steps and jump right into flight training...
 
bkervaski said:
Would love to see that spreadsheet, builder assist?
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From my neighbor once again -

I've built two RV's (7A &10), both using build assist and started a build assist facility in the Atlanta area. I can easily get to $375K with only the "big ticket" items (QB kits, TB engine, Hartzell composite prop, Stein or Aerotronics panel, A/C, Aerosport interior, Evoke paint) - with no build assist and nothing added for the minimum of $30-40K of miscellaneous items and nothing for tax and shipping. A full Lexus build of an RV-10 with build assist from empennage to first flight will be over $500K in my estimation using back of the napkin math.
 
I think those VXi tips look great. I noticed that 10ER above also has landing lights in the leading edge. I'm curious if the landing lights in the leading edge are needed with the VXis? Or are the VXis bright enough on their own? I'm getting close to starting my outboard leading edges and trying to figure out if it's overkill to have VXis or ZipTips and the leading edge lights?
 
280FX said:
From my neighbor once again -

I've built two RV's (7A &10), both using build assist and started a build assist facility in the Atlanta area. I can easily get to $375K with only the "big ticket" items (QB kits, TB engine, Hartzell composite prop, Stein or Aerotronics panel, A/C, Aerosport interior, Evoke paint) - with no build assist and nothing added for the minimum of $30-40K of miscellaneous items and nothing for tax and shipping. A full Lexus build of an RV-10 with build assist from empennage to first flight will be over $500K in my estimation using back of the napkin math.
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Unfortunately, true with today's pricing it's no wonder kits even without LCP's struggle to sell at a 30% discount to current pricing.

Screenshot 2024-10-27 205601.jpg
 
Everwild said:
I think those VXi tips look great. I noticed that 10ER above also has landing lights in the leading edge. I'm curious if the landing lights in the leading edge are needed with the VXis? Or are the VXis bright enough on their own? I'm getting close to starting my outboard leading edges and trying to figure out if it's overkill to have VXis or ZipTips and the leading edge lights?
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Leading edge lights totally not needed with Avio ZT's.
 
Those numbers are attainable, but slow build it yourself and make some choices. I am sourcing a top of the line interior for half that amount. Stock new io-540 isn’t 100k, and even cheaper options exist that don’t represent a quality sacrifice. Paint, that’s TOP of the line the similar or same quality can be had for less. Get a prop for half or 2/3rds that number. AC is a nice to have feature but adds weight and isn’t for everyone’s mission.

Yes, you can spend that kind of money for top of the line build assist. You can also do top of the line for far less.
 
Also ask around about A/C, that's a big ticket and fairly complicated item that ultimately seems not that useful. Once you get the cabin cooled on the ground you're in the air and in the free A/C starting at a few thousand feet. Just a thought.
 
Everwild said:
I think those VXi tips look great. I noticed that 10ER above also has landing lights in the leading edge. I'm curious if the landing lights in the leading edge are needed with the VXis? Or are the VXis bright enough on their own? I'm getting close to starting my outboard leading edges and trying to figure out if it's overkill to have VXis or ZipTips and the leading edge lights?
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Reached out to my neighbor and here were his responses -

As to the leading edge lights, the tip lights may be adequate for you depending on your mission. I operate off a poorly lit grass strip and although I don't fly much at night any more, I wanted as much illumination as I could reasonably do. I have not flown into our field at night yet with the RV-10, but my son did the other night. I watched him arrive and he said the lights began to illuminate the ground at 300-400' AGL. They were very bright and he was pleased with how well they worked. If you are willing to pay the payload and wallet penalty - I'd say there is little downside to doing both.

Pdp7427 said:
Those numbers are attainable, but slow build it yourself and make some choices. I am sourcing a top of the line interior for half that amount. Stock new io-540 isn’t 100k, and even cheaper options exist that don’t represent a quality sacrifice. Paint, that’s TOP of the line the similar or same quality can be had for less. Get a prop for half or 2/3rds that number. AC is a nice to have feature but adds weight and isn’t for everyone’s mission.

Yes, you can spend that kind of money for top of the line build assist. You can also do top of the line for far less.
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Can you build an RV-10 for less, absolutely. I very much disagree with your premise that you can do "top of the line" for far less.
bkervaski said:
Also ask around about A/C, that's a big ticket and fairly complicated item that ultimately seems not that useful. Once you get the cabin cooled on the ground you're in the air and in the free A/C starting at a few thousand feet. Just a thought.
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Bill, we operate in a similar climate. Although I only have about 100 hours on my airplane, I can say unequivocally that the air conditioning is the best modification we did on our plane. My spouse (who wrote all the checks) said the same thing. Yes, it costs a lot of dollars and a bunch of payload - but being cool and comfortable pays huge dividends in reducing fatigue. A lot of our flying is at lower altitude and the A/C stays on from start up to shutdown.
 
This would be my suggested spreadsheet:

PPL: $20,000
RV6A/7A/C172 (low time/decent condition/good prebuy): $130,000
Insurance/Hangar/Fuel (Yearly): $15-20,000
Used RV10 Emp Kit: $5000

When you get serious with the build you can sell the plane you bot. Meantime you can maybe jump on used kits as they hit the market. Doesn't get real expensive till you start buying engines/avionics. My two cents. Best of luck.
 
280FX said:
Bill, we operate in a similar climate. Although I only have about 100 hours on my airplane, I can say unequivocally that the air conditioning is the best modification we did on our plane. My spouse (who wrote all the checks) said the same thing. Yes, it costs a lot of dollars and a bunch of payload - but being cool and comfortable pays huge dividends in reducing fatigue. A lot of our flying is at lower altitude and the A/C stays on from start up to shutdown.
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What flight level do you usually fly at, I also plan on doing the A/C thing, what was the total weight gain, how much did the whole system weigh in at?
 
MarkAJ said:
What flight level do you usually fly at, I also plan on doing the A/C thing, what was the total weight gain, how much did the whole system weigh in at?
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I'm building a 10 and my plan is to allow for A/C, but not to install one initially and my inclination is to not put one in. It's the 41 lbs ish, the added complexity and $10,000. Build it, don't paint it yet, fly it, tweak it. If you paint a plane before you initial flying it, you are less likely to change things. Aluminum and fiberglass are really easy to change, fix, add to or subtract from, and or alter. No one want to mess with their paint though!
 
MarkAJ said:
Since I'm new here, at what flight level do you gain the "COOL" air to keep your cool?
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Standard lapse rate...
You can also experience some weird temperature inversions, depending on what the atmosphere is doing. Last week it was 10° cooler at 3500' then 4200'. August, long flight home, dropped down from 6,000' to 4,000' (headwinds), a solid 15° warmer at 4,000'. Up at 8k+, outside air alone will keep you cool, but you have to get there; locally ATC likes to keep us below 3,000' for the first 20min or so of the flight due to airliners above. It's warm at this altitude for 6 months of the year (85°+), so A/C is a must have for me in an RV-10 build (i.e worth the weight and complexity). That being said, if someone made ventilated front seats, I would consider skipping the A/C. Haven't found that option yet...
 
MarkAJ said:
Since I'm new here, at what flight level do you gain the "COOL" air to keep your cool?
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Most if not all aviation apps show the air temp at various altitudes (every 3,000 ft). Typically, 3,000 ft AGL is ~ 10 to 15 degrees cooler, minimum, 6,000 ft 20 - 25 degrees cooler than ground level conditions, summer months in Fl.
 
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