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Round Cowl inlets

N941WR

Legacy Member
I'm just dreaming here so this may never happen, but...

Because of the O-290 I'm using on my -9 I have a longer cowl (and engine mount) than an O-320 powered -9. This means I can't go with a Sam James cowl, even if I wanted to. (Ok, I could but I would really have to cut it down.)

However, that doesn't prevent me from making some cool (no pun intended) round inlet holes in my Van's cowl.

If I were to do that, how far back from the prop should they be, what size, etc.?

I do realize that I will have to transition from the round opening to the cooling plenum. Then again, maybe not as I think the smaller opening might work out fine w/o having to worry about pressure drop due to the reduced size. Thoughts on that?
 
Sam sells round (annular, if you wanna sound intellectual) intakes which you can retrofit into a stock cowl. Your easiest path forward might be to purchase a set and install them per his instructions (assuming he provides guidance on this.).
 
Wait... the O-290 is put further forward because of CG issues right? Ok I get that, but since the SJ cowl is longer, wouldn't it work better than the Van's? And couldn't you just get a prop extension that makes up the difference if it's too long?
 
osxuser said:
Wait... the O-290 is put further forward because of CG issues right? Ok I get that, but since the SJ cowl is longer, wouldn't it work better than the Van's? And couldn't you just get a prop extension that makes up the difference if it's too long?
I didn't realize the SJ cowl was longer than Van's. Makes me think it might work out but since I already have the Van's cowl sitting in the basement...
 
Annular inlets on an 8?????????????????????????

So he sells the annular inlets seperately? Would it make sense to graft these into a stock 8 cowl? I wil have an ECI O-360.

It is hard to sort the wheat from the chafe on all this cowl stuff! Looks count--big time-- but it sounds like part of the problem with cooloing drag is too much air in----then it being regurgitated out the inlets. How's that for a gross simplification???

Comments?
 
But Doc.......

Doc,
You make a valid point but the rings being moved further from the spinner to where more thrust from the prop blades are, allow for smaller openings.
Regurgitation, as you humoressly post, has been documented by guys with cameras and yarn tuft testing in flight. As you probably also know, Van uses the transverse baffle behind the spinner to prevent backflow from the pressurized area to stop air squirting out between the spinner and cowl. This is another source of drag and the better that baffle (the transverse one) is mated to the upper cowl area, the better the cooling will be and a lower drag penalty. Of course all this is solved by a well made plenum.

The net result of very well fitted baffle sealing or a plenum, increases airflow through the fins and speeds up the exiting air to more closely match the outside air velocity, resulting in reduced drag and great cooling.

Regurg......SHEESH! ;)
 
Most cooling drag is due to the difficulty in achieving proper exit-air management.

Go to http://www.sdsefi.com/air41.htm for a very concise explanation of the problem and difficulty in finding solutions. This particular installation is liquid-cooled, but the fundamentals are the same.
 
Do it

N941WR said:
I do realize that I will have to transition from the round opening to the cooling plenum. Then again, maybe not as I think the smaller opening might work out fine w/o having to worry about pressure drop due to the reduced size. Thoughts on that?
You can modify your stock cowl with round inlets, just keep in mind the secret starts at the lip and continues through the throat, duct to plenum and plenum.

I would buy some rings from Dave Anders of RV-4, 265mph cafe foundation winner (by 80% over previous cafe foundation high scorer, Harmon's Rocket HRII). SJ rings are fine but not quite as well contoured per the nasa report. You can also make your own by fiber glassing them in. Just keep in mind it is 3-D flow and the throat is critical, e.g., no big area discontinuities.

You'll have to glass in the rings, and make the transition from the rings to the plenum. The flex part is usually made of silicon or neoprene. You can have that made or actually cut out from an old wet suite. The plenum can be made from a stock Van's baffle kit and covered with aluminum or fiberglass. Stiffen the top of the plenum in the middle and make a bracket to one of the center case bolts.

It is more work but the results will be worth it. Now for size of rings you can get by with less than the 25-33 in-sq I have. In general you can cut inlet down by 40%. I don't know what area Van uses for the O-235 cowl but measure it. Than note what temps people are getting out in the field on a 100F day. If they are seeing acceptable temps with the stock cowl, you can scale down the inlet area by approx 35-40%. Why? Less leakage in the plenum, more efficient inlets (higher pressure and no reverse flow) to name two big reasons.


bumblebee said:
Most cooling drag is due to the difficulty in achieving proper exit-air management.

Go to http://www.sdsefi.com/air41.htm for a very concise explanation of the problem and difficulty in finding solutions. This particular installation is liquid-cooled, but the fundamentals are the same.

I have to dis-agree most cooling drag is NOT from the exit. You make it sound like this is not a worth while mod at all, and all the improvement is in the exit. The point air leaves the free air stream and is "captured" by the cooling system till it exits and rejoins the free airstream is important. No one area is more important and one poor detail can negate the gain in another. If you improve the efficency of the air you use so you can reduce the inlet (and exit) area you will reduce cooling drag.

The SJ cowl reduces the inlet area by about 40% and gains up to 8 mph cruise. That is like finding an extra 10-15 hp! Drag reduction rules. The inlet design tends to be more critical than the exit because of the higher velocities and need for efficient pressure recovery. I said more critical (design) not more important. The exit is important, but it's not as critical or hard to achieve a good exit. We know a reverse scoop with parallel walls at a 30 degree angle and "tricks" like exhaust augmentation (accelerating the cooling air with the exhaust gas) work. Also Variable exit geometry (aka cowl flaps) work. However the problem is the aircraft structure is fixed. You have to do major structural modification on a RV to adapt some of these exit principles. The inlet is fairly easy and has known benifit for our air cooled engines. As well we know soft seals and the cowl to baffle leakage is high with the stock Van's set up. Some builders do a better job than others, but the "SJ" style system takes out the guess work of, "is it leaking".

The nasa report did research exit design, but they emphasised the inlet and high pressure side (plenum) of the cooling system more. The exit is not un-important but it is fairly well understood. It is the inlet that was miss understood. No matter how great your exit is, it does not matter if you have a leaky system with poor pressure covery inlets with weird reverse and turbulent flow.

www.sdsefi.com does great work on his water cooled Subaru powered RV and his efforts do have similarities to air cooling in that we're talking fluid dynamics and aerodynamics. However they're very differnt in principle and heat transfer. Just look at the link and see the cowl sprouting a bunch of scoops. Does not look like any air cooled RV cowl. That should give you a clue, it is a differnt animal. With air cooled we go right from engine (metal) to air. Going from engine to liquid to air is a bit different, you have a middle man. Yes water cooling is great in a car, but in an "AIR-plane" we have plenty of air. The challenge is getting water cooled engines cooling drag down. The P51 did it with very thick radiators in a belly scoop, and it also had cooling problems as does the Subaru. However the P51 was going 400 mph and that is a differnt world and thick radiators do not work. Water cooling is great for getting the heat out of the the engine but getting it into the air is the issue for those guys. sdsefi is doing good work but it has limited benifit to us Lycoming flyers.

The good news is we have +80 years of research in air cooled engines and are the beneficiary of this research. NACA (now NASA) has studied air cooled engines extensively from the 30's thru the 40's until jets came into their own. Of course most work was on radials and inline but there is good info there. Later in the early 80's the NASA funded report done by Miley/Owens/Cross of MSU and TA&MU investigated Horz opposed aircraft air cooled engine cooling efficency. This is where the wide spread round inlet with internal airfoils and sealed plenum data came from. Keep in mind this is not if it will work, it does work. This is not a debate.

The secondary benifit with a "dog house" plenum and the round inlet for us, is you can seal it with a round duct (and clamps), achieving a near leak free system. Just reducing leaks is a 38-55% gain in efficency. If you improve efficiency you can reduce inlet area. Reduced inlet area equals less cooling drag. This is independant of the exit. However a poor exit can ruin the gains above. It all has to work together, a weak link is a weak link.

The bottom line if you are going to do it, do yourself a favor, beg, borrow and steal the ideas of LoPresti, Sam James (designed by Barnard) and Dave Anders. You don't have to buy the rings; you could form them from fiberglass. No doubt you can make your inlets a little smaller than those for a O320.

You can also control or throttle the flow through the cooling system with the exit as Bumblebee alluded to. The exit is a way to control the flow. However you have to start with efficient inlets and a leak free plenum. That is what the round inlets with leak free connection to the leak free upper plenum do. This area represents 55% loss in a typical GA plane installation from leakage alone! A well built RV with a stock cowl and soft seals may be better than a typical GA plane, but you would be surprised how the air flow is working in the inlets, backwards. No matter how nice your exit is, poor inlet design will kill the efficiency of the system, resulting in high temps or excessive cooling drag or both.
 
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Make it close

pierre smith said:
Doc,
You make a valid point but the rings being moved further from the spinner to where more thrust from the prop blades are, allow for smaller openings.
From Kent Paser Economy with speed he found more pressure recovery with the inlet close to the prop. If you look at the Barnard/SJ cowl and LoPresti they bring the inlets forward at least to the plane of the spinner back. The closer the inlet is to the prop, the more thrust pulse you recover. The further back the more diluted and mixed (with slower free air) the pulse is. Also the cork screw effect is greater so the air's relative velocity is deflected and not aligned with the inlet. Kent Paser found he had to be very close to get effective prop pulse. Beg, barrow and steal good idea's of existing cowls.

correction:
spinner: my mistake by all means make it further outboard. I miss read and was addressing the inlet lip to the back of the prop forward/aft. The area by the spinner on out little planes are terrible air flow due to blunt blade shapes near the hub.
 
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Pierre vs George?

Just so I understand what I think I read...
Pierre, you said move the rings further from the spinner.
I'm assuming you are talking radial distance from the crankshaft axis.
George, you say place them closer to the plane of the spinner.
I'm assuming you are not disagreeing with Pierre's statement and are saying that wherever the rings are placed they will be more effective if moved as close to the prop disk as practical?
Combining the two seems best is what I think I am taking away from the two statements?
Thanks,
-mike
 
Dave Anders rings?

gmcjetpilot said:
I would buy some rings from Dave Anders of RV-4, 265mph cafe foundation winner (by 80% over previous cafe foundation high scorer, Harmon's Rocket HRII). SJ rings are fine but not quite as well contoured per the nasa report. ...
George, do you know how I can find more info on these rings?
 
gmcjetpilot said:
From Kent Paser Economy with speed he found more pressure recovery with the inlet close to the prop. If you look at the Barnard/SJ cowl and LoPresti they bring the inlets forward at least to the plane of the spinner back. The closer the inlet is to the prop, the more thrust pulse you recover. The further back the more diluted and mixed (with slower free air) the pulse is. Also the cork screw effect is greater so the air's relative velocity is deflected and not aligned with the inlet. Kent Paser found he had to be very close to get effective prop pulse. Beg, barrow and steal good idea's of existing cowls.

My SWE book is loaned out, but I don't recall Paser saying to move the cooling inlet forward, I thought he said to move the engine intake forward. His MII shows that the intake is extended VERY close to the prop. Does he also say to move the cooling inlets forward?
 
Correct

Yep Mike,
I meant radial distance from the prop centerline. I'm just a backyard aerodynamicist having tinkered with Formula One racers in the seventies. My boss was Jack Sliker who had a Bearcat and P-51. He was really working on the Bear to find more speed but unfortunately was killed when it ran out of gas on final at Flagstaff on the way home from Reno in 1975. I also spent quite a bit of time around other F-1 guys and they really do their homework but won't hardly let you see under the hood.
 
CFA on the 6 shows about the same pressure on the front cowling (inlet areas) as the front of the spinner. Round inlets primary advantage is in the reduction of vortices (thus drag) compared to those with sharper corners like the stock Van's inlets. They probably also offer improved flow adjacent to the spinner due to the raised entrance and reduced internal flow separation due to larger inlet radaii.

The major portion of cooling drag is in the total mass flow required vs. the restriction in this airflow in the passage over / through the engine/fins, baffles and other structures on its way through the cowling or radiator and finally the exit velocity of the cooling air, it's vector and it's resultant disturbance of the local airflow around it.

Reducing the mass flow by restricting inlet or exit area has a major effect on cooling drag but we must have enough to keep the engine cool in all flight regimes.

Airflow restriction also has a major effect on drag. Anything that will help turn air with lower losses like guide vanes and longer radaii will reduce this but much of the problem lies with the passage of air through the cooling fins. The more you slow the cooling air down, the more drag you have generally speaking. Opposed designs where the air makes two 90 degree turns through the fins is not ideal and the flow is certainly turbulent by the time it makes its way though. The more we turn the path of cooling air, the higher the losses and resulting drag. This is one area where radial engines and radiators are superior. Air travels in essentially a constant direction. This is often offset by increases in frontal area unfortunately. More compromises.

I think many people don't understand the concept of pumping the duct. Exit airflow and pressure differential is very important and throttling of the exit has been proven to be highly efficient. No matter how high your inlet pressure is, if the pressure at the exit is also high, you have no net airflow and no cooling.

Exhaust augmentation of the cooling air stream is an amazing and proven concept but hard to implement in many existing designs.

Several designs have made major speed improvements by streamlining protubrances within the cowling, curving the firewall to prevent the air from thudding into a flat surface and carefully shaped exit ducts with exhaust augmentation within the exit ducts a la F1 cars. DG's Lancair racer encorporates most of these ideas. The round inlets also smoothly diffuse into a curved plenum to feed the intercoolers and distribute spray bar water.

ADI and spray bar water turned to steam by exhaust and contact with the engine fins expands and increases discharged mass flow and no doubt adds yet more speed but this is not feasible for our everyday RVs.

Propeller effects throw more into the mix and only full scale tunnel tests with the prop under power or flight testing different configurations can validate these ideas.

The F1 and Unlimted Reno guys say nothing about this stuff when asked. It is hard won knowledge that thet don't want others to get the easy way!

In short, round inlets are good but many other details encompass cooling drag.
 
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Hardwon knowledge

rv6ejguy said:
The F1 and Unlimted Reno guys say nothing about this stuff when asked. It is hard won knowledge that thet don't want others to get the easy way!
I can understand this mentality, but I'll bet there are some things that all the racers know. Perhaps we can convince them to share only that knowledge with us mere mortals!
 
rv8ch said:
I can understand this mentality, but I'll bet there are some things that all the racers know. Perhaps we can convince them to share only that knowledge with us mere mortals!

I was free to study DG's Lancair last year for about 2 hours with cowling off. Facinating figuring out what you THINK they are doing. I asked Strega's (P51) owners about their revised rad scoop (no longer a boundary layer type). All I got was smiles. These guys don't show up with anything on their planes which make them slower. Sometimes general theory is just wrong when flight testing proves otherwise. My view is that the reduction in frontal area with the raised inlet offset any drag with ingestion of the boundary layer. Indeed it is interesting at these speeds that the boundary layer may be so thick this far back, the original scoop was ingesting it anyways.

The scoop was lengthened and recontoured as well.

These planes are constantly tinkered with for more speed in many areas, engines, props and airframes. I'm sure many ideas don't pan out that they try around home base. Only the good ones make it to the race.
 
Negative, Maverick no fly-by the pattern is full

mlw450802 said:
Just so I understand what I think I read...
Pierre, you said move the rings further from the spinner.
I'm assuming you are talking radial distance from the crankshaft axis.
George, you say place them closer to the plane of the spinner.
I'm assuming you are not disagreeing with Pierre's statement and are saying that wherever the rings are placed they will be more effective if moved as close to the prop disk as practical?
Negative, sorry for the confusion I meant forward / aft distance from the back of the prop, BUT By all means space the inlets further out (outboard) from the the spinner. That is a given. As I said COPY the SJ cowl or LoPresti cowls. http://www.jamesaircraft.com/P1010076.jpg

The round inlet shape does allow the required area or "centroid" of the area to be located as far outboard as possible and still fit in the cowl shape. You could make it oval or another shape, but round also has the added advantage of making the interconnection duct easy to seal. That is why hoses, SCAT tubes are round not square. Square ducts (oval or rectangular) are hard to make sealed joints. Round all you need is a hose clamp, good to go.

The reason you want to go towards the edge of cowl (away from the spinner) is shown in the sketch I made below. There's no top secret magic, just common sense and practical issues mixed with sound aerodynamics and engineering. You can only go so far outboard and you run out of cowl. It has to have "form, fit & function". The air next to the spinner is beat to death by the blunt shape of the prop near the hub/spinner. The air flow is terrible there and a bad place for an inlet. That is where Van's inlet starts, next to the spinner. This is why you see HUGE spinners on the P-51 and the prop airfoil is held right up to and adjacent to the spinner. The root of the blade on most GA props is a about as aerodynamic as a 2-by-4 board or a baseball bat.


rv8ch said:
George, do you know how I can find more info on these rings?
Sorry, I bought these direct from Dave Anders of 265 mph RV-4 fame. I don't have his contact info handy but he lives in Northern California. You may try to contact NuVenture Aircraft (which I think he runs or has some interest in). Dave Anders reworked the original Questair Venture (the flying egg) and raced it at Reno but bent it on a emergency landing accident. They have a web site: http://www.nuventureaircraft.com/; Not sure if he has anymore inlets. I bought mine from him direct a few years ago. It was not like he marketed them to the masses. The difference between these inlets and what Sam James sells is subtle. The SJ ones have less internal contour, more straight and smaller radius at the entrance but they will work. These are the SJ rings and they look similar to what I have: http://www.jamesaircraft.com/files/AP_top_0001.jpg They are machined out of solid aluminum and nest into a grove in the cowl.

chuck said:
I thought he said to move the engine intake forward. His MII shows that the intake is extended VERY close to the prop. Does he also say to move the cooling inlets forward?
No he does not address the cooling intake directly, but I am making the connection from the induction to the cooling intake. Of course he did the plenum and changed the cowl nose bowl shape, which he attributes 7 mph speed gain with other cooling mods. He never got into the "round inlet" and he continued to use a soft seal connection between the plenum and the cowl (like Van's stock baffle and cowl set-up).

I honestly don't think there's a lot to gain from the prop wash, but when you make your inlets it should be like the SJ, which is bring it forward. http://www.jamesaircraft.com/P1010075.jpg; If you look at a stock Van's cowl the inlets are back about 1".

As far as the induction / intake he found a 1 inch to 5/8th inch clearance (to prop), no more than 11 degree total angle diverge of the intake (5 deg a side), inlet area 10% of the carb throat and angled into the prop rotation 10 degrees all where gains. I can't bring myself into making a long skinny snorkel to get close to the prop for a little MP boost. Actually he never saw more MP or speed but more rate of climb. He also mentions "clocking" the prop properly to time the pressure pulse when the intake valve is open. I am not sure with my constant speed prop (which fits the crank in one clock position due to bushings) will fit that requirement. I am not that much a slave to performance. The long snorkel on his plane is ugly. Also the extra external drag might cancel the some of the gain? I respect and admire Kent Paser, but I am not going to follow him exactly here. I am trying to follow as many of the guidelines as possible with my intake scoop. My intake scoop is forward of the stock Van's postion, but it's not as radical as he his scoop, which is less than an inch from the prop arch.
 
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