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Radio Calls - "Any Traffic In The Area Please Advise."

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So I know where he is!!

So, what did asking for "any traffic in the area please advise" accomplish that simply stating your position wouldn't have accomplished? The other guy was obviously listening and paying attention, and he answered up when you announced your position. Adding the additional verbage simply ties up more precious radio seconds.

The answer is simple, so I know where the other aircraft is located. Despite have sophisticated Traffic awareness, I want to see them.

Remember we have a ton of training activity. Sometimes I think we are in Chinese airspace:D They don't always communicate.
 
Be realistic

Yesterday I took off from my home airport, NC25, refueled at KRUQ, hopped over to KJQF to give my sister and her friend a ride, flew to GA27 to rendezvous with eight other TeamRV airplanes, flew with the 9-ship formation to 6GA0 for Kahuna's birthday party (he's 40!) and team photo session, then dropped into 18A for fuel on the way home to NC25. That's six airports in one day, and you are proposing that I memorize all the navaid intersections and research all the student training areas for every airport? And don't tell me to just write it all down on my knee pad. Ever try to read your knee pad in the middle of a 9-ship formation? Please give us transients a break. When you are departing "goofy" IAF on the GPS24 approach, please just tell me you are "5 miles out on the straight-in, runway 24". I can handle that.:D

Lets be realistic Ron, if these are airports you use consistently you are going to most likely be aware of what is going on. If one of those has extensive IFR training then it might be prudent to know the navaids to stay out of the flow.

Awareness is important. Don't take it for granted.
 
I operate out if a non towered airport and we had a small regional air service that made two or three flights a day in and out. Sometimes I get to feeling like a step child when there are one or more planes in the pattern and using a specific runway on light wind days. The regional boys will announce they are 5 or 10 miles out and always use the phrase "all other traffic please advise". I always give them my location and intentions even though I am making all the normal calls when I'm doing touch and go's or landing. 90% percent of the time they will ignore the runway direction the rest of us are using and land in the opposite direction anyway. I understand they are fast and use lots of fuel and am more than willing to move over and let them get on the ground but it sure would be nice if they acted like they appreciated our efforts.
Now I feel better!:)
 
even if they say "please"? ;-) In the spirit of continuing education (mine), may I respectfully ask..."why?"

DM

That phrase is an invitation for every moron within a 150 mile radius to key up and talk at the same time. That sounds great on the CTAF! It'll be 60 seconds before the frequency becomes usable again. I'll cover 3 miles in that 60 seconds, flying my RV-6. I might miss a call I would need to hear.
That's why I will never answer such a call.
 
...The regional boys will announce they are 5 or 10 miles out and always use the phrase "all other traffic please advise". I always give them my location and intentions even though I am making all the normal calls when I'm doing touch and go's or landing. 90% percent of the time they will ignore the runway direction the rest of us are using and land in the opposite direction anyway...
I know there are lots of more experienced pilots, but in the 40+ years I have been flying, this is an unusual issue. I can't think of one other thing where so many people started using such a bad procedure that the FAA felt it needed to step in and stop it.

I am not an apologist for FAA, and have many disagreements with their policies, but they are right about a great many things. The VFR cruising altitude rule seems sensible, it has probably prevented many fatalities. I think it makes sense that one should call the tower before entering Class D airspace or call approach before entering Class B. I think it is right that one should be examined for competence before taking passengers, and that a pilot should not be impaired by alcohol while flying.

Recently, some entity; I suspect one of the big flight schools, started this strange phraseology and it persisted. If many inexperienced people are taught to do something in a particular way by those in authority over them, they will tend to do it. I most often hear it from new regional airline pilots. The trouble is that it is offensive in many ways.

Whether meant or not, it always comes off as arrogant. I am here now, I haven't been paying attention, so everyone satisfy ME, notwithstanding the fact that if people responded it would be chaos.

Like others, I never respond to this call, I just keep making my normal position reports. Like paying ransom to terrorists encourages terrorism, responding to this call encourages poor operating procedures. The call may cause many problems, and has no advantages.

The FAA position is "Traffic in the area please advise' is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

"Should not be used under ANY CONDITION" seems real clear to me and also seems real justified. There is nothing about that statement that sounds optional.

I am not in favor, generally, of having arguments over the aircraft radio frequencies, but short of that I think people should help people, whenever possible to understand when they are using a counterproductive procedure.
 
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"Any traffic in the area, please advise." is a call I will never ever answer under any circumstances.

:rolleyes:You must fly around lower alabama and have near midairs with T-34's on a regular occasion:eek:

Seriously, I come scortching (realtive to most light civil a/c) into civil fields regularly and have to get the bug smasher I'm watching turn final infront of me to acknowledge or respond on the radio... sometimes I have to use the dreaded phrase "XXX traffic, turning final please respond" to wake him up.

Though it was typically preceeded by my 15mile call to unicom, 10 mile and 5 mile call to traffic... when I typically observe bubba in his bug smasher taxing out on the runway infront of me when I'm 120 kias 1/4mile final.... or departing the opposite runway...

Perhaps I've grown bitter, as I know most folks who fly civil care and are competent pilots... but there are enough 'bubbas' out there trying to kill me that I don't care what the book says I can say... I'll say whatever it takes to get bubba to listen -and- talk on the radio.

And if bubba needs to ask for "traffic please respond", you better believe I'll make a "Navy T-34 123 is established down wind rw14 touch and go" call to answer it.

overall... I just figure its because I get paid to fly, and they are watching the hobbs meter tick their $ away that they forgot to turn the radio on or figure its no big deal to cut me off in the pattern... its got to be something... :cool:
 
:rolleyes:You must fly around lower alabama and have near midairs with T-34's on a regular occasion:eek

Actually, I've never been there, but would like to fly to the southeast part of the country sometime. I've been flying airplanes since I was 13 years old. I'm 67 now. I've flown lots of airplanes from Cubs to a Cessna T310R, including an SNJ and a Navy N3N. The last time I rented an airplane was in 1969. I've mostly flown my own since. I've never been wealthy by American standards, and I've paid for 95% of my flying out of my own pocket because I love to fly.

I don't blast into traffic patterns at 160 Kts, expecting everyone to get out of my way. I slow to speeds compatable with other traffic that might be there. I announce my intentions, listen for others, and pay attention to my surroundings. It is as much your responsibility to look and listen and plan according to conditions, as it is mine to report my intentions. I can S-turn in my RV-6 and land behind the NARDO J-3 Cub that just cut in front of me 1/4 mile ahead, or if I have higher speed traffic behind me, I can wheel it onto the runway and exit at the taxiway of my choosing. My last near miss was while working with approach control. I don't tie up the CTAF with useless radio chatter. It's a party line. Someone else might need it. I need three pieces of information from your CTAF radio call: your position, your altitude (if you're not in the traffic pattern) and your intentions. I'll take responsibility for my own safety.
 
Lets be realistic Ron, if these are airports you use consistently you are going to most likely be aware of what is going on. If one of those has extensive IFR training then it might be prudent to know the navaids to stay out of the flow.

Awareness is important. Don't take it for granted.

Darwin, you are absolutely correct. It would be prudent for me to know everything about every field I fly to. But, not realistic. When I fly into any field I assume that there is at least one student pilot in the pattern who is struggling to keep the pointy end going foreward and the shiney side up. He has no idea what an instrument approach is, let alone what or where the navaids are. So, while doing my practice ILS I will announce that I am "RV8RS on 5-mile straight-in, runway 24, full stop" rather than "RV8RS departing goofy, ILS24, full stop". The former paints a picture that he can relate to, the latter just takes up band width on CTAF.
 
That about sums it up... Just sounds nicer the other way. ;-)
BTW, the long straight in is the safest thing to do in a big A/C. We could fly the pattern with you, but you wouldn't like it. <G>

DM


There seems to be an attitude among the Big Jet pilots coming into non-towered fields that has a lot to do with this discussion. When I hear "Peapatch traffic, Lear 12345, 20 miles straight in for runway 18, ANY TRAFFIC IN THE AREA PLEASE ADVISE," what is really being said is "any traffic in the area, get out of my way because I'm making a long, fast straight-in."

The other day I was landing a Turbo Commander on the short parallel runway at West Palm Beach. Landing next to me on the big runway was a Citation. I had to chuckle a little since I had about a 20 kt speed advantage over the Jet. Since I'm typed in Citations, I knew his Vref was about 101 kts, while I was doing about 120. When I pull the power back on the Commander, it slows down like RIGHT NOW!
I also fly into lots of non-towered airports, and since I'd prefer not to mix it up in the pattern, plus save some time and money, I'll use the "forbidden" phraseology to see if anyone is around. I have found that most locals and other aircraft in these areas are usually quite accommodating, with offers of extending their downwinds or making a 360 so I can get in. I really appreciate this, and I'm sure that they feel better that I'm not on their six on the downwind, running my checklists while trying to figure if the speeds and spacings will work out. Usually, they don't!
Also, no one has ever scolded me for using that phraseology, and in return I've never harped on them for using their full call sign at every point in the pattern ("entering downwind", "on downwind", "on downwind turning base", etc.). I really don't need to know your full call sign even ONCE, as I don't intend to get close enough to you to be able to read it!
I haven't re-read the AIM in a while, and maybe I should pick up a newer copy than the one I got back in the sixties, but I doubt that I would change my operating procedures too much. Despite the fact that I've never, ever known the FAA or any other government agency to be wrong, I like to stick with what works!
 
Larry,
If you have time, can you please give me the reference for this?
Thanks,
DM



The FAA position is "Traffic in the area please advise' is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

"Should not be used under ANY CONDITION" seems real clear to me and also seems real justified. There is nothing about that statement that sounds optional.
 
Thanks Larry,
Looked it up and you are 100% correct. I wonder where the heck I picked up the phrase. Been using it for many years. Gonna have to choke it back every time I approach an uncontrolled airport now...
Still learning after all these years... :)
DM
PS
I also appreciate you patience and teaching attitude... ;-)

Larry,
If you have time, can you please give me the reference for this?
Thanks,
DM

AIM 4-1-9 g.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap4/aim0401.html#4-1-9
 
One of the downsides to saying "any traffic in the area, please advise" is that it ties up the freq. Any traffic in the area should already be advising. I too fly jets to help support my RV habit. I also think, like some others here, that a straight in approach at 1.3 Vso (about 140kts in many cases for me) is less disrupting to the local traffic, in most cases, than flying a full pattern. Pilots in faster aircraft should monitor the CTAF on a second radio at least 5 minutes out, to know what the traffic situation at the airport is. That being said, when flying the RV or J-3, etc. I always make room for faster aircraft in the pattern, whatever runway they are using, because I am much more maneuverable that they are. When operating faster aircraft, I like to annouce my distance out in minutes, not miles. I think this is much more useful information to other pilots.

Keep your eyes open out there :)
 
talk, please

The folks who post here are probably all diligent and careful, no matter what terminology they use. What I don't like are the folks out there who don't communicate. Some don't bother with the CTAF, at all, even if they do have radios.

A few years ago, about midnight on a Saturday night, I announced, took the runway, and was about to take off, and saw the landing lights of a light jet coming straight at me on takeoff. I taxied off the runway quick. The jet never announced, just roared out of there. I guess he was too busy with his IFR clearance to bother about the local frequency.

My point is that the danger of failing to communicate is far worse than almost anything you might say. I do agree that you should try to communicate correctly, but I personally don't mind if you ask where the traffic is.
 
Mike,

I agree and have similar things happen. Maybe the jet's takeoff call was blocked by a commuter flight saying "any traffic please advise" at another airport ;)
 
Please shut this down

Moderators, please consider shutting this thread down. It has become aggressive and goes against what King D.R. intended.
 
Moderators, please consider shutting this thread down. It has become aggressive and goes against what King D.R. intended.

i second that.. i think all the useful opinions have been stated. it won't get any better from here.

but i think we all learned a thing or 2 about the difference in opinion of proper radio usage! :)
 
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