Rabidsnipe
Active Member
For this first post I am simply going to state facts (or facts as I perceived them). I will refer to the other individuals involved simply as "the pilot" or "someone on the ground" etc.
As a new pilot I would like some commentary on what I am about to describe. I would like some comment as to whether you feel these actions (of mine) were correct. There are some things now that, having survived and learned from this experience, that I wish I would have done differently. I would also like some commentary on the actions of the other pilot. This pilot is my senior in both age and experience. I will provide my commentary and opinion after some discussion.
The plane that I am speaking about belongs to a flying club of which both I and the pilot are members. I am being careful about the details (names, places, etc.) because I'm not quite sure how to proceed at this point. I would appreciate some advice on that as well.
On 6/7/08 myself, XXX, XXX, and XXX (the pilot) prepared for a flight in XXX a Cessna 182. The pilot was left seat PIC for this flight and I was right seat. XXX and XXX were backseat passengers (both non-pilots). This was my first flight in XXX and any C182 for that matter.
The weather before take-off could be described as good visibility with broken skies at an undetermined altitude; we were able to complete the entire flight without penetrating any clouds. The winds were high but at an unknown velocity (I had called off our scheduled flight at 8am that morning due to the winds being 18024G30KT).
On our initial run-up all systems appeared to be operating normal. The only discrepancy was the lack of indication from the vacuum suction gauge. It did not seem to be responding with any variation of engine rpm. The instrument warning light, however, would turn off with an increase in rpm from idle. A few radio calls were made by the pilot to speak with someone regarding the lack of indication from the vacuum gauge; these were not successful.
The pilot reviewed the V speeds for the aircraft on the back of the check list. He noted particularly the Vr and Vy speeds. The pilot called out our airspeeds as we began to accelerate and noted, upon reaching Vr, that he would “wait a little bit longer.” He then rotated the airplane and began our climb. Several times during the climb the stall warning sounded, sometimes for extended periods.
After our initial climb-out the pilot successfully handed the controls off to me. I made a turn towards the east as we continued our climb. I then made a turn to the north and continued the climb. When we were approximately east of the airport the pilot successfully took control of the aircraft. He began to demonstrate the various equipment on the C182 specifically the autopilot and its functionality.
At this point I asked what the pattern altitude was at the airport. After some contemplation he reported that the airport was at 1400 feet and that the pattern altitude was 2400 feet. He then stated that we should climb to pattern altitude. I noted that we were above pattern altitude (approx 2500-2700 feet) but made no comment. He adjusted the autopilot for a constant rate climb and leveled off at 3400 feet.
The pilot then began maneuvering us back to the airport by occasionally making adjustments to the heading bug and allowing the autopilot to turn the plane. He stated that we would fly to the east and then maneuver to enter a left downwind for the active runway. In route to the airport he stated that we were at pattern altitude, “Actually we are at 3400 feet,” I stated. “Oh right. Let’s descend to 2400.” The pilot continued to use the autopilot to make maneuvers until on a left downwind for the active runway. He made a radio call that we were on a left downwind for the active runway.
Abeam the numbers of the active runway the pilot initiated the pre landing checklist. One of the checklist items, application of carb heat, was not completed. When he retarded power I noticed that he had not yet adjusted the prop control from its full forward position for the duration of the flight.
We began turning our base leg and he made an additional radio call that we were on base leg. He called for 10 degrees of flaps and I successfully added them. I noticed that our airspeed was above the white arc but made no comment. On our turn to final approach I noted that our altitude was approximately 2300 feet.
On final approach the pilot added 20 degrees of flaps. The airplane began to nose up and lose airspeed and the stall horn began to sound. The pilot began rolling the trim wheel down, towards him, applying back trim stating “the autopilot added a lot of trim”. I reached forward and applied forward pressure on the yoke to bring the nose of the plane down and regain airspeed. During this maneuver we gained altitude.
Soon after this application of flaps the pilot retracted the flaps to 10 degrees. He continued his approach to landing on a fairly stable glide slope falling below glide slope as we approached the end of the runway. Crossing the numbers I again noted that we were above the white arc and still had 10 degrees of flaps.
As he began to flare the airplane began drifting to the left of center line. He used a back and forth motion on the yoke to adjust the sink rate and made contact with the runway. The plane bounced back into the air. The plane struck the ground again and again bounced into the air; the second impact with the ground was harder than the first. The airplane hit the ground a third time and again bounced into the air. At this point I said “Apply power, go around,” to which his response was (approximately), “Uhh yeah. Uhh, umm, okay.”
The pilot applied power and called for flaps up. I stated that we should wait until we have established a positive rate of climb. I waited until we were further above the runway and verified that we had a positive rate of climb before I retracted the flaps. Approximately at the end of the runway I realized that no radio call had been made regarding our actions or intentions and so I reported that we were going around.
On the second pattern, someone on the ground inquired as to whether we had a prop strike on that last bounce to which the pilot replied that it was pretty hard but that it was a negative on the prop strike. The pattern was flown fairly normal, with approximately the same altitude as we began our final approach and the pilot stated that he would stay with 10 degrees flaps this time.
Once on the ground with the engine stopped we discovered that we had in fact struck the prop on, presumably, the third bounce.
As a new pilot I would like some commentary on what I am about to describe. I would like some comment as to whether you feel these actions (of mine) were correct. There are some things now that, having survived and learned from this experience, that I wish I would have done differently. I would also like some commentary on the actions of the other pilot. This pilot is my senior in both age and experience. I will provide my commentary and opinion after some discussion.
The plane that I am speaking about belongs to a flying club of which both I and the pilot are members. I am being careful about the details (names, places, etc.) because I'm not quite sure how to proceed at this point. I would appreciate some advice on that as well.
On 6/7/08 myself, XXX, XXX, and XXX (the pilot) prepared for a flight in XXX a Cessna 182. The pilot was left seat PIC for this flight and I was right seat. XXX and XXX were backseat passengers (both non-pilots). This was my first flight in XXX and any C182 for that matter.
The weather before take-off could be described as good visibility with broken skies at an undetermined altitude; we were able to complete the entire flight without penetrating any clouds. The winds were high but at an unknown velocity (I had called off our scheduled flight at 8am that morning due to the winds being 18024G30KT).
On our initial run-up all systems appeared to be operating normal. The only discrepancy was the lack of indication from the vacuum suction gauge. It did not seem to be responding with any variation of engine rpm. The instrument warning light, however, would turn off with an increase in rpm from idle. A few radio calls were made by the pilot to speak with someone regarding the lack of indication from the vacuum gauge; these were not successful.
The pilot reviewed the V speeds for the aircraft on the back of the check list. He noted particularly the Vr and Vy speeds. The pilot called out our airspeeds as we began to accelerate and noted, upon reaching Vr, that he would “wait a little bit longer.” He then rotated the airplane and began our climb. Several times during the climb the stall warning sounded, sometimes for extended periods.
After our initial climb-out the pilot successfully handed the controls off to me. I made a turn towards the east as we continued our climb. I then made a turn to the north and continued the climb. When we were approximately east of the airport the pilot successfully took control of the aircraft. He began to demonstrate the various equipment on the C182 specifically the autopilot and its functionality.
At this point I asked what the pattern altitude was at the airport. After some contemplation he reported that the airport was at 1400 feet and that the pattern altitude was 2400 feet. He then stated that we should climb to pattern altitude. I noted that we were above pattern altitude (approx 2500-2700 feet) but made no comment. He adjusted the autopilot for a constant rate climb and leveled off at 3400 feet.
The pilot then began maneuvering us back to the airport by occasionally making adjustments to the heading bug and allowing the autopilot to turn the plane. He stated that we would fly to the east and then maneuver to enter a left downwind for the active runway. In route to the airport he stated that we were at pattern altitude, “Actually we are at 3400 feet,” I stated. “Oh right. Let’s descend to 2400.” The pilot continued to use the autopilot to make maneuvers until on a left downwind for the active runway. He made a radio call that we were on a left downwind for the active runway.
Abeam the numbers of the active runway the pilot initiated the pre landing checklist. One of the checklist items, application of carb heat, was not completed. When he retarded power I noticed that he had not yet adjusted the prop control from its full forward position for the duration of the flight.
We began turning our base leg and he made an additional radio call that we were on base leg. He called for 10 degrees of flaps and I successfully added them. I noticed that our airspeed was above the white arc but made no comment. On our turn to final approach I noted that our altitude was approximately 2300 feet.
On final approach the pilot added 20 degrees of flaps. The airplane began to nose up and lose airspeed and the stall horn began to sound. The pilot began rolling the trim wheel down, towards him, applying back trim stating “the autopilot added a lot of trim”. I reached forward and applied forward pressure on the yoke to bring the nose of the plane down and regain airspeed. During this maneuver we gained altitude.
Soon after this application of flaps the pilot retracted the flaps to 10 degrees. He continued his approach to landing on a fairly stable glide slope falling below glide slope as we approached the end of the runway. Crossing the numbers I again noted that we were above the white arc and still had 10 degrees of flaps.
As he began to flare the airplane began drifting to the left of center line. He used a back and forth motion on the yoke to adjust the sink rate and made contact with the runway. The plane bounced back into the air. The plane struck the ground again and again bounced into the air; the second impact with the ground was harder than the first. The airplane hit the ground a third time and again bounced into the air. At this point I said “Apply power, go around,” to which his response was (approximately), “Uhh yeah. Uhh, umm, okay.”
The pilot applied power and called for flaps up. I stated that we should wait until we have established a positive rate of climb. I waited until we were further above the runway and verified that we had a positive rate of climb before I retracted the flaps. Approximately at the end of the runway I realized that no radio call had been made regarding our actions or intentions and so I reported that we were going around.
On the second pattern, someone on the ground inquired as to whether we had a prop strike on that last bounce to which the pilot replied that it was pretty hard but that it was a negative on the prop strike. The pattern was flown fairly normal, with approximately the same altitude as we began our final approach and the pilot stated that he would stay with 10 degrees flaps this time.
Once on the ground with the engine stopped we discovered that we had in fact struck the prop on, presumably, the third bounce.
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