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Preparing to sell my RV-10

JackinMichigan

JackinMichigan

Well Known Member
Wasn't sure where to post this, so I'm posting it here.

I've decided to part with the RV-10 my father and I built. I simply don't fly it enough anymore to justify the work and expense I sink into it every year, and lately keeping up with it has become an expensive chore.

Having never sold an airplane before, much less one that I built, I'm not really sure where to start. I thought the first place might be to hire a professional aircraft appraiser, so I called one. He said he'd visit my hangar and go thru all my logs, build records and receipts and take a bunch of pictures and submit a thick appraisal report, all for the tidy sum of $1,000. Still debating if it's worth it.

Anyone got any thoughts, tips or resources on selling an experimental aircraft?
 
JackinMichigan said:
I've decided to part with the RV-10 my father and I built. I simply don't fly it enough anymore to justify the work and expense I sink into it every year, and lately keeping up with it has become an expensive chore.
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Dave,

This is a hugely difficult decision to make, but one that most of us will face at some point. I cannot help with your question about the appraisal, but suspect it is highly dependent on the eye of the beholder.

We are on the other side of the equation where we are within 20 months of flying (we think). I would be grateful if you would elaborate on the "work and expense" comment in your post?

Best of luck with your decision and path forward!
Mike
 
MJarreau said:
Dave,

This is a hugely difficult decision to make, but one that most of us will face at some point. I cannot help with your question about the appraisal, but suspect it is highly dependent on the eye of the beholder.

We are on the other side of the equation where we are within 20 months of flying (we think). I would be grateful if you would elaborate on the "work and expense" comment in your post?

Best of luck with your decision and path forward!
Mike
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Costs: Hangar fees, fuel expense, Garmin and Foreflight annual subscription (to update charts), insurance, transponder certs, flight medical, instructor fees, and any new parts (just had to buy new tires). Comes out to about $4k per year of fixed expenses plus $60/hr in fuel costs.

The work part comes from the annual condition inspection. It typically takes me a full three weeks to tear everything apart (I'm a solo act on this), inspect it and put it all back together. Done that seven times so far and have to do it again next month, and it gets less and less fun each time.
 
Not sure I would bother with an appraiser. It is worth what someone will pay. Probably get a good read by posting specs and asking here.

As far as selling it, EAA has information on the bill of sale form and registration form.

I am certain there will be comments relating to liability; that is what you make of it, and the range is from “I don’t care” to “I’m going to cut it up in little pieces and put it in a landfill”.

Priced properly, it should not be a tough sell. I have had three cold calls to buy mine…and I’m not selling. The offers were also above what I figure it is worth. Point is, you only have one chance to set a top price. If it doesn’t sell, you can always lower the price.
 
MJarreau said:
Dave,

This is a hugely difficult decision to make, but one that most of us will face at some point. I cannot help with your question about the appraisal, but suspect it is highly dependent on the eye of the beholder.

We are on the other side of the equation where we are within 20 months of flying (we think). I would be grateful if you would elaborate on the "work and expense" comment in your post?

Best of luck with your decision and path forward!
Mike
Click to expand...
Work and expense. For me, that is hangar, insurance, database subscriptions, registration, taxes, engine and avionics reserves, fuel and oil, tires, brakes, and ongoing maintenance.

Work will be ongoing maintenance, CI, SB compliance, tires, brakes, oil changes, washing, cleaning, waxing, windows, hangar cleaning, etc.

Acquisition is a tiny part of ownership.
 
I built my -10, flew it for ~10 years, and sold it 1.5 years ago having the same questions and concerns about the process as you do. I think it comes down to whether you have more time then money. If you do, invest your time in looking through Barnstormers, Trade-a-Plane, VAF, etc to determine the range of current values. Realize that nobody else's airplane will match yours so you'll have to compare your equipment, airframe time, engine time, etc to what you are seeing and see how your airplane compares. Then, assign a value with your gut instinct. I used Barnstormers and had it alert me to RV-10 ads/sales and copied these into a rolling document so I can determine a range of values and see where mine fit into the mix as equipped. Since I anticipated the sale, I did this over the span of a year and eventually had a good idea of what was selling, how fast, and for how much. Look at the resources of AOPA and EAA for their documents and articles on selling a used aircraft. All of the information is at your disposal so if you have the time, you can save money by not hiring the process out. As previously mentioned by Bob, in the end, you'll just have to set a price and see what responses you get. The more time you have, the more people you can entertain but it does get annoying, exhausting, and frustrating. I can tell you that I received a lot of calls from people just kickin' tires and it got frustrating to know that they weren't going to be serious buyers but nevertheless, they requested pics, videos, talked about arranging a visit, etc even when it was clear they were not prepared and ready to actual buy. It was probably the one time I contemplated how nice it would have been to delegate that part out to a broker. In the end, a serious buyer came, saw the value, and completed the purchase and I was very happy I didn't have to split the proceeds with someone else but it was clear that if I were working long hours, knee deep in family commitments, etc, I would have liked the delegate the whole process to someone else and simply cut the check.
 
I’d look at comps on a couple sites, put up good photos, have a nice write up and then post it for a month or two. If that didn’t get it done a broker can make your life so easy it’s worth it. I sold my Arrow with a broker and a buyer from Puerto Rico showed up a week later. Zero hassle for me and I’d never have met that buyer another way. An appraiser is not worth it because you can educate yourself easily.
 
dhmoose said:
I built my -10, flew it for ~10 years, and sold it 1.5 years ago having the same questions and concerns about the process as you do. I think it comes down to whether you have more time then money. If you do, invest your time in looking through Barnstormers, Trade-a-Plane, VAF, etc to determine the range of current values. Realize that nobody else's airplane will match yours so you'll have to compare your equipment, airframe time, engine time, etc to what you are seeing and see how your airplane compares. Then, assign a value with your gut instinct. I used Barnstormers and had it alert me to RV-10 ads/sales and copied these into a rolling document so I can determine a range of values and see where mine fit into the mix as equipped. Since I anticipated the sale, I did this over the span of a year and eventually had a good idea of what was selling, how fast, and for how much. Look at the resources of AOPA and EAA for their documents and articles on selling a used aircraft. All of the information is at your disposal so if you have the time, you can save money by not hiring the process out. As previously mentioned by Bob, in the end, you'll just have to set a price and see what responses you get. The more time you have, the more people you can entertain but it does get annoying, exhausting, and frustrating. I can tell you that I received a lot of calls from people just kickin' tires and it got frustrating to know that they weren't going to be serious buyers but nevertheless, they requested pics, videos, talked about arranging a visit, etc even when it was clear they were not prepared and ready to actual buy. It was probably the one time I contemplated how nice it would have been to delegate that part out to a broker. In the end, a serious buyer came, saw the value, and completed the purchase and I was very happy I didn't have to split the proceeds with someone else but it was clear that if I were working long hours, knee deep in family commitments, etc, I would have liked the delegate the whole process to someone else and simply cut the check.
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How long did it take to actually sell?
 
Jack, another option you may want to consider is getting a partner. Before you completely dismiss it, consider finding a good person local to you that would take care of it as good as you do. I'm in 2 very successful partnership but I am the one that does most of the maintaining, but I do that because I want to have good airplanes. A few years ago I sold an RV10 and a RV7 that I still wish I had back to this day. I was really missing a fast plane but was lucky enough to find a builder who had built a very nice Lancair Super ES but he simply did not fly it to justify keeping it. Long story short, we became partners, I keep that plane in pristine condition, he flies it about 10 hours a year and I feel lucky to have a fast traveling plane again. My point is his expenses are now cut in half or even less, and really I do a lot (not all) of the maintenance and upkeep.
You may have seller's remorse as I did after you sell.

Just something to keep in mind.
AB
 
JackinMichigan said:
How long did it take to actually sell?
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I entertained buyers for a few weeks and sold it within 6 weeks or so. It sold pretty quick. I think it was priced fairly, the market was hot for -10s, and it was very nicely equipped so there weren’t many like it coming to market.
 
I would not pay anyone $1000 just to eval the plane, but those are my values. Pretty much anyone here could do the same if you posted how it was equipped.

Here is what I think could make the sale go quickly. Spend the money for a "prebuy" on your own plane, from qualified eyes, as you perform your condition inspection. If you get this done by a recognized name, perhaps it would give a buyer confidence in the plane. For your own benefit, it allows you to fix things you are not yet aware of. If you go this route, I have someone in mind, it would likely cost you more than $1000, perhaps their fee plus airfare.

I bought an RV10 last year and surveyed the market for a few months. Here are the things that I thought added value.

ADSB in/out installed. I forget exact figures but recall some did not have this

Throttle quadrant location: I am a tall guy and did not want center console fancy stuff. I suspect this was unique to me and dont really think this changed value in the market.

The biggest factor that impacted my perception of value was the engine source. There were a lot of attractive planes on the market that had used engines installed. I wanted new, ie engines installed that came. from Lycoming or Mattituck, not from some other plane. The used engine scenario got even more confusing once looking at logs or talking to people about overhauls under non certified conditions. Often, used engine planes seemed to be selling at like new prices from shops that specialized in experimental and I wondered if this was how they made a profit. This might just be my OCD, but I had to have standards.

IO 540 only, not like the one plane available with smaller engine.

Avionics mattered, especially since I had just gone through a full new panel upgrade in my old plane. Too many ads still list Garmin 430s as modern. The better the panel the more value in my eyes. There were a handful of planes with non traditional items.

I was most concerned with good bones, good structure. You are likely biased as the builder. I looked at two planes side by side, one of which had a better panel, everything else comparable. I avoided the plane that had fuel tanks replaced for leakage along with a bad paint job, concerned that the build quality might reflect in areas I could not see.

The one I bought was full epoxy primed interior.

I think the premium possible by pricing your plane correctly and being patient with a sale is along the lines of 50-100K. If you continue posting about concerns for quick sale you are showing your cards.

I think I heard 6% if someone brokers the plane for you. A good broker might well know where to price things.

I think 300K is the starting point for RV10s. A bit lower (only a bit) for any demerits, and significantly higher for good stuff. There just are not many on the market and they are nice planes.
 
I agree about not paying $1000 to an appraiser.

A hangar neighbor’s kids paid an appraiser to price his 1968 Cherokee 180. The appraiser came back with $125,000. The plane had antique avionics and hadn’t been flown in10-15 years. An A&P bore scoped the engine and found it loaded with corrosion.

As others have stated, look at the listed comps and list it at a slightly higher price OBO.
 
JackinMichigan said:
Wasn't sure where to post this, so I'm posting it here.

I've decided to part with the RV-10 my father and I built. I simply don't fly it enough anymore to justify the work and expense I sink into it every year, and lately keeping up with it has become an expensive chore.

Having never sold an airplane before, much less one that I built, I'm not really sure where to start. I thought the first place might be to hire a professional aircraft appraiser, so I called one. He said he'd visit my hangar and go thru all my logs, build records and receipts and take a bunch of pictures and submit a thick appraisal report, all for the tidy sum of $1,000. Still debating if it's worth it.

Anyone got any thoughts, tips or resources on selling an experimental aircraft?
Click to expand...
If selling outright feels like a hassle, I’d be willing to discuss a partnership if you’re open to it. That way you wouldn’t have to give up the airplane completely, but it could help with both costs and keeping it flown regularly.
 
I think RNB summed it up best.
Why don't you post some pictures here and we'll do the appraisal for you at no charge.
Seriously, a couple of picture of the exterior and a few of the interior especially avionics and leave it open for comments.
Later you can start a clean ad in the classified section where no one is supposed to comment on price or condition.
 
N427EF said:
I think RNB summed it up best.
Why don't you post some pictures here and we'll do the appraisal for you at no charge.
Seriously, a couple of picture of the exterior and a few of the interior especially avionics and leave it open for comments.
Later you can start a clean ad in the classified section where no one is supposed to comment on price or condition.
Click to expand...

They listed this plane months ago and the ad has disappeared. I assume at this point that it sold.
It was the nicest used 10 on the market.
 
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