Van's Air Force
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Pmag experiences,combined threads
- Thread starter N131RV
- Start date
Not so easy on my plane
And you think that would be an "easy" task? I already "knew" the Pmag was bad about 20 minutes into my troubleshooting. I went the extra mile to satisfy Brad.
It would take at least two hours for me to swap the L & R Pmags on my airplane (if I had opted for two). Just installing the one was not an "easy" task. I have inverted oil system and an oil filter (prop governor too). There is barely enough room to install the PMAG once the upper oil lines are disconnected and moved out of the way, plus removing the blast tube for the fuel pump cooling shroud (thats just for the left one). Then I have to snake a hand in to reach the bottom hold down with a shorty box end (can't get a large wrench or socket in there). The top hold down is shielded by both the mag and the oil return fitting, so it's a bit of a pain as well.
Then you have to snake the mag out without damaging the gasket (unless you just happen to have spares lying around), disconnect the wiring (remove the allen screw).
That takes me about an hour, all told. On a stone cold engine, maybe a little less.
On the right side, it's a bit tighter. Figure the same amount of time.
Now figure troubleshooting the "easy" way. Pull all plugs and put them on the tester (15 minutes tops).
Pull the plug leads and run them down to the local hot rod shoppe to be tested. 10 minutes to get them off.
Once they pass, there is only one possible culprit.
I think the "swap PMAGS is easier" story is just a wee bit optimistic. Maybe it is easier for some. Unless of course, you were talking about swapping the spark plug wires(and plugs) from one mag to the other. If they were long enough, that might indeed be "easier".
JMHO, YMMV, etc
And you think that would be an "easy" task? I already "knew" the Pmag was bad about 20 minutes into my troubleshooting. I went the extra mile to satisfy Brad.
It would take at least two hours for me to swap the L & R Pmags on my airplane (if I had opted for two). Just installing the one was not an "easy" task. I have inverted oil system and an oil filter (prop governor too). There is barely enough room to install the PMAG once the upper oil lines are disconnected and moved out of the way, plus removing the blast tube for the fuel pump cooling shroud (thats just for the left one). Then I have to snake a hand in to reach the bottom hold down with a shorty box end (can't get a large wrench or socket in there). The top hold down is shielded by both the mag and the oil return fitting, so it's a bit of a pain as well.
Then you have to snake the mag out without damaging the gasket (unless you just happen to have spares lying around), disconnect the wiring (remove the allen screw).
That takes me about an hour, all told. On a stone cold engine, maybe a little less.
On the right side, it's a bit tighter. Figure the same amount of time.
Now figure troubleshooting the "easy" way. Pull all plugs and put them on the tester (15 minutes tops).
Pull the plug leads and run them down to the local hot rod shoppe to be tested. 10 minutes to get them off.
Once they pass, there is only one possible culprit.
I think the "swap PMAGS is easier" story is just a wee bit optimistic. Maybe it is easier for some. Unless of course, you were talking about swapping the spark plug wires(and plugs) from one mag to the other. If they were long enough, that might indeed be "easier".
JMHO, YMMV, etc
I have done this many times... at idle
But at 2500 RPM you wouldn't get me standing behind that prop holding a timing light
Sissy!
Just kiddin'...
You definitely need goggles, that's for sure, and you better have a chin strap for your headset. But, my mechanic has done that with me at the throttle many times. It isn't as bad as you imagine, at least not with a C/S prop reducing pitch to make rpm at lower power.
N941WR
Legacy Member
You can complain all you want but had you installed regular mags, they would have taken up more room, been more difficult to replace when they go bad (and they do go bad) or have to be overhauled at 500 hours. Not to mention the weight savings you gained by using the P-mags
The other thing to consider, had you gone with a regular mags and one of them went Tango Uniform, you would be paying a lot more to get it fixed than the shipping back to Emag.
They wil take care of, just give them a chance.
The other thing to consider, had you gone with a regular mags and one of them went Tango Uniform, you would be paying a lot more to get it fixed than the shipping back to Emag.
They wil take care of, just give them a chance.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Realizing having a mechanical can ruin your plans but really, trashing Emag because they are closed for a three day weekend and asking for an "emergency contact" number? I'm not sure you would get that from any of the ignition manufactures.
The additional two days it took them to contact you is unlike them. Brad and Tom must have taken some time off or been swamped with other issues, possibly something more dire than you being suck at home. I really don't know why the delay and didn't ask Brad. Why don't you ask him and post his reply?
While you can order a mag from Aircraft Spruce and have it next day aired to you, you can do the same with a P-mag.
Very few shops keep magnetos on the shelf, waiting for a customer to buy it.
So the argument that you can get a regular mag at any airport doesn?t really fly.
Sorry, I have little sympathy for you. As an early adopter of these things who almost had an engine melt due to a lost timing issue, I'm very happy I stuck with them. Their customer service is second to none. Despite your rants on this forum, which they are aware of, they will work diligently to resolve your issue.
A friend of mine at the local airport recently had the same missing/popping problem with his dual PMag installation on his Sidewinder. We checked the resistance on his plug wires and found no problems. He was just about to remove them and just send them in when I nagged him enough that he swapped the mags.
His engine compartment is fairly tight, but he managed to do the deed in about 45 minutes. Magically, the problem went away... completely! As frustrating as it is to not know what the original problem was, he's decided not to mess with it anymore and go with what's working.
I'm watching this thread with interest in hopes of passing along your discoveries to my friend in the event his problem resurfaces.
My Midget Mustang will fly within the next couple of weeks with 200 hour Slick mags, but I was planning on upgrading to PMags when my finances allow. I'll continue to follow threads like this to help me make my decision when the time comes.
His engine compartment is fairly tight, but he managed to do the deed in about 45 minutes. Magically, the problem went away... completely! As frustrating as it is to not know what the original problem was, he's decided not to mess with it anymore and go with what's working.
I'm watching this thread with interest in hopes of passing along your discoveries to my friend in the event his problem resurfaces.
My Midget Mustang will fly within the next couple of weeks with 200 hour Slick mags, but I was planning on upgrading to PMags when my finances allow. I'll continue to follow threads like this to help me make my decision when the time comes.
John Clark
Well Known Member
Diagnosis
With all due respect, what can you learn by swapping (not replacing) the mags? I, like Joe don't understand how that helps in diagnosing the problem.
John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
With all due respect, what can you learn by swapping (not replacing) the mags? I, like Joe don't understand how that helps in diagnosing the problem.
John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Sissy!
Just kiddin'...
You definitely need goggles, that's for sure, and you better have a chin strap for your headset. But, my mechanic has done that with me at the throttle many times. It isn't as bad as you imagine, at least not with a C/S prop reducing pitch to make rpm at lower power.
But....still it's nothing trivial. Worked around running props for many years before I finally got "bit" by one - now been there/done that!
Also, to be fair about mags, a large majority a FBO's in the country are likely to have at least one 43 & one 63 series mag around, and most any shop can/will work on 'em, and it's likely at least someone on almost any public airport can find you one to get you going .....not so much with Pmags.
I've got nothing against them, I fly behind an EI myself.....I know Bill is passionate about them but I'm just trying to calm things down a bit.
Cheers,
Stein
if the problem stays on one set of plugs after you swap PMags, its not the PMag (its the wiring, plugs, something else). If it follows the PMag, it must be the PMag.
apkp777
Well Known Member
As you know P-Mag ignition system contains:
12V - Breaker - Test switch - Ignition switch - wire harness - P-mag - ignition harness - plugs. Additionally but not part of the P-mag system, you have the cylinder (Piston, rings, valves)
One of the above is the culprit.
If you don't have a spark plug tester, no lead tester, it would be conclusive to swap the mags L to R or vise versa and see if the problem follows. It would be the same thing if you had a spare mag sitting on the shelf. It might be a bit of a "shotgun" approach, but if you have easy access, which I do. The fellow that originated the post does not.
I realize that it is obvious now that he has a bad P-mag, he knows for sure because he swapped out everything but the P-mag still had the problem, then put in a traditional mag, problem solved. I'd do the same, just would use my other P-mag as my spare.
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The kool-aid must be very tasty.
Here you go, the answers you requested are below.
And I quote, "I was on vacation and I'm just now getting caught up on phone messages". That vacation included the prior Friday, the weekend, the actual holiday, the Tuesday after and half of Wednesday. Note that the voice mail on their phone said "we're on the shop floor or with a customer" during the entire period.
The point was, I can get a hold of Aircraft Spruce. I can REACH them.
Not true in my experience. Yours may differ.
See above. In addition, almost any airport will have a mechanic that can check and rebuild a regular mag. Yes, been there done that.
There are no rants, only facts. And if they are aware of them, they should also be aware of the multiple emails and phone calls I have received asking about their product and service. Most are also curious as to the final disposition of the issue.
As for customer service, Brad could have said the magic words on day one and I would have been really, really happy.
The magic words: "Let me send you a loaner so you can get flying immediately, send me your PMag and we'll see what's going on with it".
Most "great service shops" (and I have dealt with many) HAVE DONE EXACTLY THAT when I have had a problem with their product. Whenever I have any type of problem with MGL, a replacement part is on the way after the first phone call. Same with Trio. Same with Stein.
That's what I call great service. Your opinion may differ. More power to you.
I will say Brad has been patient and professional on the phone. Credit where credit is due. Short of the magic words, he has done very well.
Here you go, the answers you requested are below.
Hmm, If speaking the truth is "trashing", consider me guilty.
And I quote, "I was on vacation and I'm just now getting caught up on phone messages". That vacation included the prior Friday, the weekend, the actual holiday, the Tuesday after and half of Wednesday. Note that the voice mail on their phone said "we're on the shop floor or with a customer" during the entire period.
The point was, I can get a hold of Aircraft Spruce. I can REACH them.
Not true in my experience. Yours may differ.
See above. In addition, almost any airport will have a mechanic that can check and rebuild a regular mag. Yes, been there done that.
Your sympathy (or lack of it) is irrelevant.
There are no rants, only facts. And if they are aware of them, they should also be aware of the multiple emails and phone calls I have received asking about their product and service. Most are also curious as to the final disposition of the issue.
As for customer service, Brad could have said the magic words on day one and I would have been really, really happy.
The magic words: "Let me send you a loaner so you can get flying immediately, send me your PMag and we'll see what's going on with it".
Most "great service shops" (and I have dealt with many) HAVE DONE EXACTLY THAT when I have had a problem with their product. Whenever I have any type of problem with MGL, a replacement part is on the way after the first phone call. Same with Trio. Same with Stein.
That's what I call great service. Your opinion may differ. More power to you.
I will say Brad has been patient and professional on the phone. Credit where credit is due. Short of the magic words, he has done very well.
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Not so fast
I did go with regular mags. I have had more than one rebuilt in my lifetime. Cost varied from $25.00 (yup) to a recent high of $597 for a complete overhaul of a Bendix 1200 series including a new impulse coupler, new case (???) new points, condenser, etc.
And while I'm waiting to "get taken care of", my plane would be grounded if it weren't for the fact that I kept my old mag as a spare.
Bendix mags regularly make engine TBO without rebuild. True about the weight savings (maybe).
I did go with regular mags. I have had more than one rebuilt in my lifetime. Cost varied from $25.00 (yup) to a recent high of $597 for a complete overhaul of a Bendix 1200 series including a new impulse coupler, new case (???) new points, condenser, etc.
And while I'm waiting to "get taken care of", my plane would be grounded if it weren't for the fact that I kept my old mag as a spare.
apkp777
Well Known Member
With all respect. You had your mag trouble at the worst possible time. Friday before a holiday weekend. I run a small business and I know how tough it is to actually get time off. When I try to sneak away for a day or two, it almost always come with a disaster.
Joe, I know its frustrating to have your plane not running right. You'll get it fixed and everything will be fine. If I was near you, I would have given you one of my P-mags as a "loaner". I suppose as I get some time on mine, it won't be a bad idea to get a spare to have on hand. Maybe I will try to get an E-Mag for that purpose.
Truth be told most of the companies I deal with leave something to be desired as far as "my expectations" are concerned. Hey my Catto prop came 100% past the due date (8 weeks later than the 8 week promised). Still, it's a sweet prop. Would I order another, you bet (but about 10 weeks sooner). My interior is also overdo, my engine was 6 weeks overdo. I am looking at a new tailwheel that only God and Bell knows when it will be available and Bell's not telling. I ordered brake lines, they came yesterday and they sent the wrong ones. My Halo head set is delayed "one of my assemblers is in the hospital" I was told.
Yeah, Spruce is easy to get in touch with, So is Stein. But if they goof (spruce charged me 15% restock fee even though they got about 20K of my money) I would not hang them.
All in all, aviation for me has been a lot of "hurry up, and wait".
Joe, I know its frustrating to have your plane not running right. You'll get it fixed and everything will be fine. If I was near you, I would have given you one of my P-mags as a "loaner". I suppose as I get some time on mine, it won't be a bad idea to get a spare to have on hand. Maybe I will try to get an E-Mag for that purpose.
Truth be told most of the companies I deal with leave something to be desired as far as "my expectations" are concerned. Hey my Catto prop came 100% past the due date (8 weeks later than the 8 week promised). Still, it's a sweet prop. Would I order another, you bet (but about 10 weeks sooner). My interior is also overdo, my engine was 6 weeks overdo. I am looking at a new tailwheel that only God and Bell knows when it will be available and Bell's not telling. I ordered brake lines, they came yesterday and they sent the wrong ones. My Halo head set is delayed "one of my assemblers is in the hospital" I was told.
Yeah, Spruce is easy to get in touch with, So is Stein. But if they goof (spruce charged me 15% restock fee even though they got about 20K of my money) I would not hang them.
All in all, aviation for me has been a lot of "hurry up, and wait".
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
One of the really great things about the experimental world is that it's made up of lots of entrepreneurial types who make great products (albeit with some growing pains) that only we in the experimental world get to use. Unfortunately, many of those same types are not large enough companies to be able to provide the immediate service that our sense of entitlement seems to demand. I think anyone who builds their own plane can appreciate the need for patience. Getting calls or emails back from businesses like the Vetterman's, the Catto's, the Bell's or, apparently, the EMag folks in the experimental world is not always immediate, but I'm sure glad they are around!
Flying Scotsman
Well Known Member
Not to hijack the thread, but Larry Vetterman just sent me the exhaust for my -7A and his service was *excellent*. He returned phone calls promptly, even while out checking his hangar for damage from a hailstorm. He didn't just email back, he called me about 5 minutes after I emailed a question, to discuss it personally. He shipped the exhaust the day he said it would, and it even arrived earlier than planned.
THAT is customer service...
Different experience
Here is my story. On Monday I needed to fly up to Whiteman AFB (actually KRCM) for a week. After start, I had to cycle power a few times to my left PMag to get it online. I blamed it on a power dip during start and continued on. After I arrived the PMag was operating normally. However, it bothered me. So Wednesday morning I pulled the top cowling off to check the wiring and timing. When I turned on the master, the left PMag had a flashing yellow LED. I pulled out my cell phone and called Brad. He answered after two rings. Having been reading this thread, I asked him how he was doing. He told me he had been sick and asked how he could help me. I explained what happened and he said that he knew exactly what was wrong and asked for the address to ship a loaner to get me home. The spare showed up at 1000 the next morning. I went down to the local pawn shop and bought $3 worth of tools and swapped it out in 20 minutes. BTW, I have a large ducted oil cooler on the left and an inverted oil system. It is tight but still not hard to do. Now I have good aircraft to fly home on Monday thanks to Brad. What more in customer service do you want. There are a lot of folks that don't install/operate/maintain EIs correctly. In fact most of their calls come from those people. Brad is conditioned to that situation. They just want to make sure a replacment PMag will solve the problem before they swap it out. Granted, Brad and Tom know me and probably trust my troubleshooting more than someone they don't know, but bottom line this was outstanding customer support.
Here is my story. On Monday I needed to fly up to Whiteman AFB (actually KRCM) for a week. After start, I had to cycle power a few times to my left PMag to get it online. I blamed it on a power dip during start and continued on. After I arrived the PMag was operating normally. However, it bothered me. So Wednesday morning I pulled the top cowling off to check the wiring and timing. When I turned on the master, the left PMag had a flashing yellow LED. I pulled out my cell phone and called Brad. He answered after two rings. Having been reading this thread, I asked him how he was doing. He told me he had been sick and asked how he could help me. I explained what happened and he said that he knew exactly what was wrong and asked for the address to ship a loaner to get me home. The spare showed up at 1000 the next morning. I went down to the local pawn shop and bought $3 worth of tools and swapped it out in 20 minutes. BTW, I have a large ducted oil cooler on the left and an inverted oil system. It is tight but still not hard to do. Now I have good aircraft to fly home on Monday thanks to Brad. What more in customer service do you want. There are a lot of folks that don't install/operate/maintain EIs correctly. In fact most of their calls come from those people. Brad is conditioned to that situation. They just want to make sure a replacment PMag will solve the problem before they swap it out. Granted, Brad and Tom know me and probably trust my troubleshooting more than someone they don't know, but bottom line this was outstanding customer support.
Flybuddy2
Well Known Member
Mags may be ancient technology but they do the job very reliably. Neither Bendix nor Slick need overhauls at 500 hrs. Slick recommends an inspection at 500 hr intervals. Most mags make it to TBO with minimal issues. All the hype about efficiency improvements with various electronic systems is mostly bogus as we run our engines in a very narrow range at cruise. To get this pill in the gas tank improvement some are willing to sacrifice reliability (safety). Long term tested aviation parts are simply more reliable. Ask the folks who dabbled with auto engine conversions which account for 51% of homebuilt accidents while more than halving the value of their aircraft.
If you want to save weight and size--go Slick..I've heard this scenario with EMAG/PMAG reliability issues way too often.
THAT sounds familiar...
This last post sounds exactly like the customer care I've experienced from Emag so far: great help, quick response to e-mails and phone calls and good info when needed.
Great customer care is really vital when you're building and flying an airplane in aother part of the world, and so far I've had no trouble with Emag Air.
I'll also second the opunion about these new small companies! I sure am glad they are around!
I'm sorry for all the trouble you've had, and I'm sure Brad and his crew will work together with you so you can solve the problem and get back in the air real soon.
Please let us all know what the problem was when you find out.
Thanks
This last post sounds exactly like the customer care I've experienced from Emag so far: great help, quick response to e-mails and phone calls and good info when needed.
Great customer care is really vital when you're building and flying an airplane in aother part of the world, and so far I've had no trouble with Emag Air.
I'll also second the opunion about these new small companies! I sure am glad they are around!
I'm sorry for all the trouble you've had, and I'm sure Brad and his crew will work together with you so you can solve the problem and get back in the air real soon.
Please let us all know what the problem was when you find out.
Thanks
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
While it is certainly up to the builder to weigh the pros & cons of electronic ignition systems, there seems to be more than enough empirical data to support the efficiency claims. Is there data to refute the efficiency claims?
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Charlie, I've had this same thing happen to my P-Mags, as well. They both have Revision 29 written on them, and I thought the "power dip" problem was resolved with that rev. I have called Brad about this problem last summer, but since a power-cycle clears the issue, I've not sent them in yet. I don't believe they have a yellow flashing LED, but I will check the next time I'm out at the hangar (tomorrow) before I fly.
Could you elaborate on what Brad told you regarding the power-dip problem? Thanks.
I think it is more than just empirical, since if the EI has advance from MAP, then as you fly higher, the spark will be more advanced to work with the lower flame-front propagation velocity to provide the ignition to get the peak pressure at the desired 15 deg ATDC. The other thing you get with EI is instant start, not the laborious several prop rotations that it takes with magnetos with a cold engine. My next-door hangar neighbor used to tell me how the engine start on my plane would always scare or startle him because it much faster than he expected! Mags are good, good EIs are better!
David-aviator
Well Known Member
That depends.
There is ton of info on EI on the CAFE webb site. Much of it is rather technical but what my brain gleened is EI is not particularly better below 8000 feet. In fact one conclusion was up to 8000 feet, mags may be better although I don't recall the context of that statement. From 8000' on up EI is more efficient.
Starting is easier, no question of that. But if one uses an engine preheat the point is moot and preheat is a good idea with or without EI. My oil temp is always over 100F and the engine starts instantly with the mags.
I've had the Jeff Rose system in a previous airplane and liked it. But at this point with 2 new Slicks doing well, it doesn't make much sense to switch. If one of the mags fails I may reconsider the matter.
Not the same
Now I don't think it was the power dip. The PMag did not come up after a single power cycle. It took multiple tries and the flashing led is telltale of a magnet that is either too close or too far away from the sensor. Time to bring it in for an adjustment.
Now I don't think it was the power dip. The PMag did not come up after a single power cycle. It took multiple tries and the flashing led is telltale of a magnet that is either too close or too far away from the sensor. Time to bring it in for an adjustment.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
If expected temps are below 40 F., I'll preheat the engine (Lyc 360) the night before. I have three priming ports with the Van's primer kit. Mags are Slicks. Engine will usually start before one full revolution. In fact, on it's first start... after sitting idle for twelve years, it didn't make a full revolution before firing. Quite a number of people were impressed about that one.
Not bad for mags, and I'm a real believer in priming ports for cold starts.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Got it! Thanks. I'm still wondering if the power-dip issue was really resolved with V.29 of the firmware.
Degenerate thread, wrong to merge
This thread had degenerated into a random, general discussion of Pmags.
I had started a separate thread to continue my original theme, but someone "wiser" than me decided to fold it back into the white noise.
I won't be reporting anything more on this thread, since now 90% of it has nothing to do with my original post.
Please, moderator, have a bit of care before you merge me again. There was a reason I popped into a separate thread.
Thanks,
Ciao.
This thread had degenerated into a random, general discussion of Pmags.
I had started a separate thread to continue my original theme, but someone "wiser" than me decided to fold it back into the white noise.
I won't be reporting anything more on this thread, since now 90% of it has nothing to do with my original post.
Please, moderator, have a bit of care before you merge me again. There was a reason I popped into a separate thread.
Thanks,
Ciao.
Sorry, Joe... Merging was the right thing to do. I don't moderate here, but I do moderate elsewhere, and I wondered as soon as I saw your other post how long it would take before it got merged back in. Looks like moderating practise is the same here as elsewhere.
End of the tale
I had called Emagair on Wednesday, June 9th. Brad says "send it in". I say OK, i'll send it.
I had not yet replaced the unit with the old mag (hoping to fly the weekend and make my trip to Phoenix the following Monday). Shipped the unit Thursday morning. UPS tracking has it arriving at 12:30 pm Friday. No word from Emagair Friday, so spent Saturday "learning" how to stab and time a Bendix mag so I could get my plane back in service.
Monday I called from Pecos (KPEQ) on my way to Phoenix. Brad asks me when I am sending in the unit. I informed him it was delivered 12:38 on Friday. He says he'll go look for it.
I had to get back in the air and was not able to call again until I made Phoenix. By the time I got all settled in, it was after 5:00. So I waited and called Tuesday.
Tuesday, called. Brad said they could not find anything wrong with it. Could not make it fail, etc. Informed me he had replaced the system board "just in case" and had shipped it back to me.
So endeth the tale of my Pmag experience. After a lot of long hard thought, I'll be using less "advanced" equipment for a while.
I had called Emagair on Wednesday, June 9th. Brad says "send it in". I say OK, i'll send it.
I had not yet replaced the unit with the old mag (hoping to fly the weekend and make my trip to Phoenix the following Monday). Shipped the unit Thursday morning. UPS tracking has it arriving at 12:30 pm Friday. No word from Emagair Friday, so spent Saturday "learning" how to stab and time a Bendix mag so I could get my plane back in service.
Monday I called from Pecos (KPEQ) on my way to Phoenix. Brad asks me when I am sending in the unit. I informed him it was delivered 12:38 on Friday. He says he'll go look for it.
I had to get back in the air and was not able to call again until I made Phoenix. By the time I got all settled in, it was after 5:00. So I waited and called Tuesday.
Tuesday, called. Brad said they could not find anything wrong with it. Could not make it fail, etc. Informed me he had replaced the system board "just in case" and had shipped it back to me.
So endeth the tale of my Pmag experience. After a lot of long hard thought, I'll be using less "advanced" equipment for a while.
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Interested in selling the PMag?
Jon,
Given your decision, are you then wanting to sell the PMag? I would be interested if the price is right.
Thanks,
Steve
[email protected]
Jon,
Given your decision, are you then wanting to sell the PMag? I would be interested if the price is right.
Thanks,
Steve
[email protected]
N941WR
Legacy Member
Not that I know of but contact them.
Shorted (fouled) plugs are a way of life with 100LL, so I would be surprised if that would cause a problem. Same goes for an open/disconnected plug wire.
Tom, the designer is VERY smart, and it would be a major surprise if he did not take these things into account.
G3i Ignition
Well Known Member
Joe,
Just curious, the same 2 plugs that kept fouling out, what cylinders were they firing? Pmag is a wasted spark system that fires two cylinders from the same coil. Just sounded like possible coil breakdown.
Quote from Thomas S. ? Being a small company is no excuse for poor communication with their clients?.
Just curious, the same 2 plugs that kept fouling out, what cylinders were they firing? Pmag is a wasted spark system that fires two cylinders from the same coil. Just sounded like possible coil breakdown.
Quote from Thomas S. ? Being a small company is no excuse for poor communication with their clients?.
Dan
I read this thread with great interest. I just bought a very nice RV-6A on the east coast and flew it home last week. (SAN) Lost some power and isolated the right mag. (Bendix) Landed at Lubbock and the guys there found a very low time replacement from a cozy which had been replaced with an EI. Since the failed mag was antique and the other one is of a like vintage, I will be replacing it ASAP. My primary requirement is bulletproof reliability. I'm a 60 year old high timer, and have one off airport landing. My son is a 100 hour private pilot and I don't wan't to worry about him. Reliability is an incredibly complex equation, and I am not qualified to make blanket statements, but I will be installing an old fashioned, heavy, boring, plain vanilla Bendix mag.
I read this thread with great interest. I just bought a very nice RV-6A on the east coast and flew it home last week. (SAN) Lost some power and isolated the right mag. (Bendix) Landed at Lubbock and the guys there found a very low time replacement from a cozy which had been replaced with an EI. Since the failed mag was antique and the other one is of a like vintage, I will be replacing it ASAP. My primary requirement is bulletproof reliability. I'm a 60 year old high timer, and have one off airport landing. My son is a 100 hour private pilot and I don't wan't to worry about him. Reliability is an incredibly complex equation, and I am not qualified to make blanket statements, but I will be installing an old fashioned, heavy, boring, plain vanilla Bendix mag.
RV10inOz
Well Known Member
Spyglass.... I am with you.
now onto some thread drift for a moment
What makes you say that? It should not be that way. Some suggestions, in fact use themall not just some.
1. Use TCP or the other stuff if you wish.
2. Agressive leaning from start up until you line up and roll.
3. Climb using the Target egt method, even if all you have is a single probe egt.
4. Fly LOP mostly, and even carby's will. Some better than others.
5. On descent from cruise altitude, DO NOT keep winding in the mixture. Leave it alone until you either pull it to ICO, or in a GA at the commencement of the MA red knob/blue knob/black knob. Only if and I mean IF you find it runs horribly rough at some point in the descent just tweek it a fraction to stop the harshness, and no more.
6. Clean and gap your plugs every 50 hours, Gap 16-18 thou and check the resistance to be no more than 5Kohms.
Rather than thread drift, if you want to ask questions PM me.
now onto some thread drift for a moment
What makes you say that? It should not be that way. Some suggestions, in fact use themall not just some.
1. Use TCP or the other stuff if you wish.
2. Agressive leaning from start up until you line up and roll.
3. Climb using the Target egt method, even if all you have is a single probe egt.
4. Fly LOP mostly, and even carby's will. Some better than others.
5. On descent from cruise altitude, DO NOT keep winding in the mixture. Leave it alone until you either pull it to ICO, or in a GA at the commencement of the MA red knob/blue knob/black knob. Only if and I mean IF you find it runs horribly rough at some point in the descent just tweek it a fraction to stop the harshness, and no more.
6. Clean and gap your plugs every 50 hours, Gap 16-18 thou and check the resistance to be no more than 5Kohms.
Rather than thread drift, if you want to ask questions PM me.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Well then, I'm not sure I would install a mag. These pages are littered with reports of failed mags, like you described.
Truth is, any device can have a failure and I believe the P-mags have raised the bar with regard to a low MTBF. Just my opinion as I have no hard data but P-mag failures have been very rare in the last few years.
Captain Avgas
Well Known Member
Bill, you're becoming famous for your enthusiastic promotion of the P-mag system (I think Paul Dye tactfully described it as "passionate"). In fact you may have taken "defence of product choice" to a whole new level.
At any rate, I am assuming that you, unlike Joe Portman who started this thread, will never have to worry about slow P-mag product support.
