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Oxygen use
- Thread starter 9Abuilder
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Untainted123
Well Known Member
They work in the sense that you get a breath of O2. My search indicates the largest size holds 10L of oxygen, whereas the smallest size Aerox bottle (an A cylinder) holds 170L (6 cubic feet). That means using an Oxymizer canula (assuming you could hook one up to a boost bottle) would last approx. 30 minutes at the same rate of O2 as the smallest Aerox type system. In other words, I wouldn't depend on the Boost bottle doing anything more than giving a short time of clarity to get down to better air. I would take a puff at every breath if I was somehow using it for some sort of emergency O2.
For me personally (everyones physiology is different depending on many health factors), at 11k for 2 hours, I would be seeing spots, my O2 sat would probably be somewhere in the 80's, and I would have a raging headache and fatigue upon arrival. I keep an O2 finger pulse-ox so I don't have to guess whether I am oxygen deprived. I also gathered up a homemade oxygen setup for XC, and I feel much better upon arrival when I use it at higher altitudes.
For me personally (everyones physiology is different depending on many health factors), at 11k for 2 hours, I would be seeing spots, my O2 sat would probably be somewhere in the 80's, and I would have a raging headache and fatigue upon arrival. I keep an O2 finger pulse-ox so I don't have to guess whether I am oxygen deprived. I also gathered up a homemade oxygen setup for XC, and I feel much better upon arrival when I use it at higher altitudes.
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Small O2 canisters.....
I think they are a waste of money. For any purpose. It seems like a good idea that just isn't. (Don't get me started about Emergen C.....) The amount of oxygen in those is not enough to help with much of anything.....except making your wallet smaller...
Being from the Denver area, 11,000 is below where we usually ski! Copper Mountain which tops 12,000 feet has a bumper sticker: Got Oxygen? Those of us who are used to it have no problem. And that is while exercising! Where you get in trouble depends on where you started. 850 MSL to 11000 MSL is a long way up into the oxygen-free zone!! 5280 to 11000: not so much.
I think they are a waste of money. For any purpose. It seems like a good idea that just isn't. (Don't get me started about Emergen C.....) The amount of oxygen in those is not enough to help with much of anything.....except making your wallet smaller...
Being from the Denver area, 11,000 is below where we usually ski!
Copper Mountain which tops 12,000 feet has a bumper sticker: Got Oxygen? Those of us who are used to it have no problem. And that is while exercising! Where you get in trouble depends on where you started. 850 MSL to 11000 MSL is a long way up into the oxygen-free zone!! 5280 to 11000: not so much.
If it's a one time requirement, get a buddy to lend you their o2 system. Spring for some new cannulas which are about $10. If it's going to be a regular thing, consider getting a good oxygen concentrator like the Inogen G5 - they can be had on Craig's List and Facebook Marketplace used. I got a brand new one for about 1500 and it works great. I use it any time I think I might be over 8500.
Shelf life of a concentrator
The expected life for the Inogen One® G5 Oxygen System is 5 years,
with the exception of the sieve beds (metal columns) which have an expected life of 1 year and
the batteries, which have an expected life of 500 full charge/discharge cycles.
https://www.inogen.com/pdf/96-08649-00-01 B _G5_English_User Manual-web.pdf
$1500: 5 years, not bad if comparing the effort to refill cylinder(s).
But when do the sieve beds need replaced and at what cost?
The expected life for the Inogen One® G5 Oxygen System is 5 years,
with the exception of the sieve beds (metal columns) which have an expected life of 1 year and
the batteries, which have an expected life of 500 full charge/discharge cycles.
https://www.inogen.com/pdf/96-08649-00-01 B _G5_English_User Manual-web.pdf
$1500: 5 years, not bad if comparing the effort to refill cylinder(s).
But when do the sieve beds need replaced and at what cost?
RV8JD
Well Known Member
The OP is 75. He will feel much better (less fatigue, sharper, no headache, etc.) after a two hour flight at 11K' using O2.
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wirejock
Well Known Member
I think they are a waste of money. For any purpose. It seems like a good idea that just isn't. (Don't get me started about Emergen C.....) The amount of oxygen in those is not enough to help with much of anything.....except making your wallet smaller...
Being from the Denver area, 11,000 is below where we usually ski!
I drove the RMNP Hiker for 10 years. I averaged one a week sick and one a season passed out. Sick like ready to pass out and nauseous.
Those cans didn't seem to help much. What really helped was hydration, rest and a slow adjustment to altitude.
The only O² was by EMS.
I plan to use a Mountin High System. I know what hypoxia is like.
MacCool
Well Known Member
Yeah...it'll probably be fine...
PilotjohnS
Well Known Member
M two
I have a mountain high o2 in my 9a and it is just a no brainer to put on the thing a ma jig and us it on flights over 9500. I can fly an average of like 15 hours on one fill. Even at an fbo, the cost to fill is $50. The whole thing is 10 lbs in the baggage compartment. At 14500, i get unbelievable range using a peak egt climb at 120 kts ( 300’fpm), like 7 gph at 143kts true
I have a mountain high o2 in my 9a and it is just a no brainer to put on the thing a ma jig and us it on flights over 9500. I can fly an average of like 15 hours on one fill. Even at an fbo, the cost to fill is $50. The whole thing is 10 lbs in the baggage compartment. At 14500, i get unbelievable range using a peak egt climb at 120 kts ( 300’fpm), like 7 gph at 143kts true
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For the G4 the columns are about $100. I think the G5 is about the same. The 5 years lifespan is for much more use than you would have in a plane. Im going to give mine a try and see how it works. I have a finger monitor so I will be able to see if it keeps up with my needs.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
I would be extremely interested in how much a concentrator raises your saturation at a given altitude.
For instance: Fly to altitude (say 10K), cruise for 30 minutes. Test oxygen saturation. Record. Go on the G5 and see how much your saturation improves over the next 5 (?) minutes.
I'm considering going this route. My sat's are generally pretty high compared to my passengers - not sure why, but I'd like for everyone in the cabin to be at 90% or greater. Often I find myself at 92ish percent at 11K' and passengers are 86-88. Even split 4 ways, I figure everyone would get a bump of a couple of percent. Fewer users would raise saturation for whoever is connected.
Tankerpilot75
Well Known Member
I’ve got a Mountain High O2 system in my RV7A that is piped to my panel with the tank behind the CP seat for easy access to the valve with cannulas hanging on the bottle. I’m also 76 so anytime I fly above 8,000’ I’m sucking O2.
If you’re younger than 60 and never smoked then the 12,500’ FAA guidelines are okay. Us older folks (former smoker or not) should be a lot more cautious. Our bodies will become oxygen deprived at much lower altitudes. Time to invest in a good O2 system and oxymeter or stay low. Be safe!
If you’re younger than 60 and never smoked then the 12,500’ FAA guidelines are okay. Us older folks (former smoker or not) should be a lot more cautious. Our bodies will become oxygen deprived at much lower altitudes. Time to invest in a good O2 system and oxymeter or stay low. Be safe!
Here is a great video from Martin Pauly "Dr. Brent Blue on Oxygen and Carbon Monoxide"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOEBoeuyR0U
Everyone responds to hypoxia differently and having supplemental oxygen is "cheap" insurance to give you better performance as a pilot. Not to mention one of the first things to go when some people begin experiencing hypoxia is judgement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOEBoeuyR0U
Everyone responds to hypoxia differently and having supplemental oxygen is "cheap" insurance to give you better performance as a pilot. Not to mention one of the first things to go when some people begin experiencing hypoxia is judgement.
Carl Froehlich
Well Known Member
If you first solve the “how to I charge my bottle” problem, the rest is easy.
I used oxygen on all cross country flights over 8K’ (and that is 90% of all my flying). I find that sticking to this rule I’m not dragging that night or the next morning.
A group of us all got a single bottle from the local gas shop and assembled a charging station with the bottles in a daisy chain, starting with the lowest bottle when charging and working up. The Mountain High bottle in the plane is good for ~20 hours.
I fill the bottle up 4-6 times a year. Total cost per year is ~$50.
Carl
I used oxygen on all cross country flights over 8K’ (and that is 90% of all my flying). I find that sticking to this rule I’m not dragging that night or the next morning.
A group of us all got a single bottle from the local gas shop and assembled a charging station with the bottles in a daisy chain, starting with the lowest bottle when charging and working up. The Mountain High bottle in the plane is good for ~20 hours.
I fill the bottle up 4-6 times a year. Total cost per year is ~$50.
Carl
Lots of good advice above.
Everyone is different.
I have been through the FAA "altitude chamber" with reduced Oxygen and know how I respond.
When I lived on the LEFT coast, I learned that I needed Oxygen any time I was more than two legs above 9,500' MSL. Even if I just used Oxygen 30 minutes before the last landing, I felt a LOT better on the ground without headache and much less fatigue.
The Pulse Oximeter to measure blood oxygen saturation was a must have for me. Any time my blood oxygen saturation dropped below 90% was time for me to use supplemental oxygen.
I felt so much better on the ground at the end of the day with the use of supplemental oxygen that having O2 available on long flights was a requirement. I am talking about flight legs of 3 to 4 hours with total fight time of 6 to 8 hours in a day.
Living near sea level had a much different effect on me than a pilot living above, 5,000' MSL when it came to flying.
Everyone is different.
I have been through the FAA "altitude chamber" with reduced Oxygen and know how I respond.
When I lived on the LEFT coast, I learned that I needed Oxygen any time I was more than two legs above 9,500' MSL. Even if I just used Oxygen 30 minutes before the last landing, I felt a LOT better on the ground without headache and much less fatigue.
The Pulse Oximeter to measure blood oxygen saturation was a must have for me. Any time my blood oxygen saturation dropped below 90% was time for me to use supplemental oxygen.
I felt so much better on the ground at the end of the day with the use of supplemental oxygen that having O2 available on long flights was a requirement. I am talking about flight legs of 3 to 4 hours with total fight time of 6 to 8 hours in a day.
Living near sea level had a much different effect on me than a pilot living above, 5,000' MSL when it came to flying.
Do the hypoxia chamber at Oshkosh and find out. I have a home brew oxygen system that I seldom use. Came back from a $100 dollar hamburger last weekend at 11,500 no oxygen oximeter reading 94%.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
…and
What you find out is that the person being affected by hypoxia is the last person that you would want to make a decision about being hypoxic…
What you find out is that the person being affected by hypoxia is the last person that you would want to make a decision about being hypoxic…
RV8JD
Well Known Member
Use of Supplemental Oxygen in the Cockpit
There is some good info in the WINGS webinar that occurred on Tuesday, November 14, 2023, on "Physiological Aspects Of Hypoxia, How To Detect It In Flight, And How Oxygen Use Can Enhance Safety And Increase Awareness".
There is some good info in the WINGS webinar that occurred on Tuesday, November 14, 2023, on "Physiological Aspects Of Hypoxia, How To Detect It In Flight, And How Oxygen Use Can Enhance Safety And Increase Awareness".
"Brief Description:
The use of supplemental oxygen in the cockpit is generally not discussed in flight training except for the memorization of FAR Part 91.211. Oxygen usage is generally associated with high performance, turbocharged aircraft flying in the mid-teens to flight levels. Because of this, for most general aviation pilots the use of oxygen can be mysterious. But stories of hypoxia, loss of consciousness, and how insidious the effects of oxygen deprivation can be, either from accident reports or experiencing the effects of hypoxia in a controlled environment like the FAA PROTE (Portable Reduced Oxygen Training Enclosure), are plentiful.
This seminar will review the use of supplemental oxygen, some of the physiological aspects of hypoxia, how to detect it in flight, and why supplemental oxygen use can enhance safety by increasing awareness, reducing fatigue, and eliminating that “wiped out” feeling you might get after a flight."
Link to the presentation below. It starts at the 8 minute mark.This seminar will review the use of supplemental oxygen, some of the physiological aspects of hypoxia, how to detect it in flight, and why supplemental oxygen use can enhance safety by increasing awareness, reducing fatigue, and eliminating that “wiped out” feeling you might get after a flight."
