Looks like Kahuna flew the overhead into AUW yesterday:
APRS track shows the upwind, break at mid-field, and circle to landing. The reason Mike's plane is depicted off the runway is because his last beacon was when he was taxiing to the terminal.
what he said
...from faa.gov
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap5/F0504027.gif
Ya, think!!??I've seen him land and the beacon MAY just be accurate..
Happy Thanksgiving to Everyone...
That's an intense break! 2 g level turn to downwind works for me. I like to stay FAR compliant with this maneuver. More eyeballs watching.I don't remember ever looking at the g-meter in the initial break, but it's probably something like 4 or so.
That's an intense break! I like the 2 g level turn to downwind. Besides - I like to stay FAR compliant with this maneuver. More eyeballs watching.
Ah! Now I understand more better.Sorry, I should have said it was an F-16 break.
I've seen him land and the beacon MAY just be accurate..
Happy Thanksgiving to Everyone...
Oh, cut them some slack. They're obviously still sore about the Packers loss on Monday night. That kind of thing can put the whole state in a funk.Ive been "spoken to" by the locals here about my overhead approach. "We dont do that stuff around here" they said.
OK You guys!
Ive been "spoken to" by the locals here about my overhead approach. "We dont do that stuff around here" they said.
Sometimes you just got to keep your mouth shut and keep doing what ya do.
Im generally too tired to educate folks anymore. Instead, I lead by example.
I can just hear em when I arrive. "Oh great, its that red RV again, hes back doing those wierd approaches again" I dont have the patience to tell em all the good reasons why we do it. All they wnna do is complain and critique.
Its cold up here. Had the ole girl at -14degF OAT the other day at 11.5 over NY state.. Ran strong, toes cold. Brrrr.
Happy Holidays.
I can just hear em when I arrive. "Oh great, its that red RV again, hes back doing those wierd approaches again" I dont have the patience to tell em all the good reasons why we do it. All they wnna do is complain and critique.
What about the altitudes for these legs?
At the boat the break is flown at 800' AGL. Downwind or established in the pattern at 600' AGL. The downside of the overhead in the civilian world is that the overhead/pattern altitudes for the break are not standardized. If they were, life would be great. We routinely bring 20+ jets aboard with no comm. just look outside and follow your interval.
Well said. If everyone knows and follows the same procedures, it works great - efficient, safe, simple. The problem is when different people are expecting the different things.but don' be afraid of it! Its an effective way to enter and expidiously recover lots of traffic... if they are all doing the same thing the same way!
At a civilian non-towered field, I'm expecting people to make a 45-deg entry to a left downwind per the AIM unless right traffic or some other rules apply. I'm always looking (and listening) for people doing non-standard things. As with the 20 mile straight-in final, the overhead is non-standard. Although non-standard, the overhead is safe as long as it's not mixed with standard patterns.
TODR
Well said. If everyone knows and follows the same procedures, it works great - efficient, safe, simple. The problem is when different people are expecting the different things.
At a civilian non-towered field, I'm expecting people to make a 45-deg entry to a left downwind per the AIM unless right traffic or some other rules apply.
I'm always looking (and listening) for people doing non-standard things. As with the 20 mile straight-in final, the overhead is non-standard. Although non-standard, the overhead is safe as long as it's not mixed with standard patterns.
One obvious exception applies: NORDO traffic can't hear you announce the overhead and may not be expecting you; likewise, you will not hear them and may not be expecting them.
This is a good rule when operating anything mechanical around other people you do not know and trust. It's particularly true when you are at a size or weight disadvantage, i.e., when I'm riding my bicycle on the street.A good cautious pilot is always looking for the idiot who's trying to kill him.
Personally I have no problem with someone using this approach, so long as those using it give way to existing traffic in the pattern.
Actually student pilots (and their instructors) should be the very ones talked to about "bomber" patterns. They are the ones learning BAD habits.I do, however object to bomber" patterns. (Student pilots excepted.) If you can't make the runway should your engine fail on base leg you are probably a bomber pilot.
...
I never heard of an overhead break until I started following this forum. Only understood it after following this forum...
...When doing the overhead break assume that only you and/or your group know what you are up to ( even the terminology is foreign and confusing to others) and proceed accordingly. Most of us just don't know.
Ken
4. If you are part of a formation flight entering a non-tower enviroment for an overhead approach, how much of your attention was devoted to observing other traffic in and out of the pattern, and how much was devoted to holding close flight position?
4. If you are part of a formation flight entering a non-tower enviroment for an overhead approach, how much of your attention was devoted to observing other traffic in and out of the pattern, and how much was devoted to holding close flight position?Terry
How much attention is devoted to looking for traffic in the pattern?
Lead: essentially all
Wingmen: essentially none (until the break, then same as lead)
Could'nt help but chime in here to emphasize a couple of "pro break" points -
1) The break (or overhead) is not intended to cut into a pattern without regard to those aircraft already in the pattern. The up-wind entry is extended as required to establish an interval on the last aircraft already in the pattern so as not to cut out anyone already there.
2) The downwind or final is not extended to create interval. If the entry was done correctly, it should not be necessary, or desired as noted by Top Prop. At the 180 (position abeam the landing area) you are now #1 for landing.
3) It is most certainly the primary duty of the lead to set interval for the flight (as JIm said). That's why he is the "lead"!!
4) It is certainly a way to get a smooth transistion from high speed to landing expeditiously. Rolling into a 45 or so bank level turn at 180 knots, power slowly back to idle puts me at 80 knots ready for flaps on downwind in my -6 pretty much every time.
5) It keeps the pattern neat, consistent, CLOSE, and orderly as opposed to various entries at various altitudes.
It's not perfect, it's not for everyone, but it is nothing to be scared of or shunned.
Thanks - out.