The shocks and struts are probably $2500-$5000 of the finishing kit price.
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- Thread starter bkervaski
- Start date
We get it, you're once bitten and twice shy. I would argue how can you count on anything when commodities are all over the place thanks to the current "maybe tariff" environment. It's a leap of faith, like most everything in life. I am not concerned about the bankruptcy, the adults are in charge again and they are down to less than $200k in outstanding orders on back order. How many airlines and car companies have gone through financial troubles and come out okay? You can reserve the right to say "told you so" down the road, but plenty of us have been waiting a long time for this.
As far as price, go take a look at the blue, black and white kitfox on display one row down from the Vans tent. That's a $300k airplane made of fabric. Like it or not, that's where the market is.
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Ok, right. I forgot about the fancy landing gear shock absorber system. Plus I would hope bigger wheels and brakes perhaps.
I guess until I see what's actually included, it still seems expensive.
Thanks for the input.
Silly question: does anyone think they might have left a little extra burliness in the spar and braces to allow wingtip extensions? Certified planes seem to have a long history of STOL kits, and I can only imagine a clean sheet design like the -15 would benefit from some forward-looking planning, even at the cost of a few extra pounds.
If Beringer wheels/brakes are in the finishing kit that's $6500 as well.
This opens up the opportunity for the aftermarket vendors to offer options for the various landing performance. Probably MegaShock size for the STOL competitors.
AeroEngineer
Well Known Member
Not silly at all. I don't know whether the RV-15 spars were sized by ASTM standards (4g) or Utility category (4.4g), but, in either case, adding more lift further outboard increases the spar bending and would require you to either reduce those load limits, or carry less weight, or some combination of both. But it's probably doable.
Some airplanes have downwards-drooping wingtip STCs, which generate more lift further outboard. I'm pretty sure that they lower the max takeoff weight of the airplane... unless they also involve reinforcing the whole spar, which I don't think they do. And I don't think any of them lower the limit load - e.g. from 4.4 to 3.8 - but I could be wrong.
The two other concerns with extending the wingtips would be (1) More wing area means higher gust loads, so you'd have to check those (a simple equation), and if they're too high, you'd have to lower the VNO (the bottom of the yellow arc)... and (2) Flutter: You'd have to show good by test, i.e. fly to 115% of VNE and pulse the controls, or something like that.
Note: Some STOL kits work by adding VGs to the top of the wing and a droopier leading edge. This bypasses the problems above, because the wing doesn't get significantly bigger and the lift distribution does not change:
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You need to have a serial number to add the aircraft and the serial numbers haven't been assigned yet...
I got my serial number this morning and the aircraft shows on My Aircraft page. Just curious when they expect to have docs to look at. I would not expect any time soon but the welcome email with serial number was promising.
Did you get an email with you serial number?
I was around #7 in line and haven’t seen a number yet…
I was around #7 in line and haven’t seen a number yet…
I was probably #9 or so in line - got email yesterday with #24.
I overheard someone say they reserved the first 15 for some reason, so that may fit.
Overheard that Van's reserved it? Maybe for the S-LSA.
Someone rumored they were giving the first few kits to experienced people sort of as beta testers. Who knows, this was just Something I overheard, maybe even in that line. I can’t recall.
Ok, so I called a "friend of a friend" who would have the answer...and he did. When they processed my order, there was apparently a "glitch" and they had to run it again. Long story short , I have kit #26!
RV-14's are hitting the market at 250-300K+. I can see them in the upper 200K's. Because the alternative is a 40+ year old 180 for 180-250K. Whatever the market will bear...
I didn’t have my SN, so I just typed RV15 Wing Kit and it popped up with my info and serial no. asking if this was my aircraft. I clicked the box and it’s added. Still haven’t received the email confirmation, but it’s in My Aircraft now.
Add 32k for avionics if you are trying not to overdo it and you end up with 220K.
Most folks who spend that kind of money want to splash a bit of paint on it, adding a conservative 10k.
Don't forget the greedy tax man who also wants his share of sales taxes in many cases close to 10%. or 22k.
Now you are up to 250k plus another gratuity for annual county property taxes and insurance plus hangar.
Unless you are scrounger and outfit your bird with second hand avionics, perhaps an overhauled engine, you cannot really
build it for much less than 250k before you fly the RV-15.
If in fact you can build one of these wings in a matter of weeks, I see no reason to pluck down 19k now and tie up the money for 2 years hanging in the rafters.
I touched the RV-15, I drooled over it, I sat in it, I asked questions and got answers directly from Vans himself and I am impressed with that new bird. I have no doubt it will be as successful as all the other kits but the price bothers me.
They did not say, nor was the question asked in the forums we sat in, but there are multiple access panels across the top of the tanks. I would be willing to bet those would provide sufficient workspace to make necessary additions.
Before putting the money down, I asked about delivery to those not first in line. I was assured by my friend at Vans that they are well underway with producing wing ribs and such and that they are confident that they will have wing kits ready for everyone who ordered last week by the end of December.I'm in line. It looks like I'm #88 based on the order number they gave me. Any bets on when the 88th wing will ship? I'm about to do a big western loop in my RV10 from Ohio and I plan on stopping by the Vans HQ for a tour. Maybe if I slip somebody a $20..............
I guess I had a glitch as well. I went to the tent as soon as they opened on Tuesday, first one in and paid. Flew home on Wed and wondered why I still never got an email. I was then told they don't have my order..... so I ordered again. CC did not get billed so likely a pour connection for CC maybe.
N10KE
Well Known Member
Next question - last year Van’s indicated that it would be builders choice on pulled or solid rivets. I asked at the Van’s booth and was given the somewhat unhelpful answer of “it’s experimental, you can do what you want.” Did anyone get a more definitive answer on this question? The build process would be vastly different for solid rivets and there would need to be a different build manual to do this.
Failing solid rivets, is anyone considering pulled flush rivets? Sling obviously determined some benefit for flush riveting the leading edges of the TSi. I know the 15 isn’t a high speed plane but there might be some benefit to flush rivets for some portion of the airframe.
Failing solid rivets, is anyone considering pulled flush rivets? Sling obviously determined some benefit for flush riveting the leading edges of the TSi. I know the 15 isn’t a high speed plane but there might be some benefit to flush rivets for some portion of the airframe.
It's addressed in this video https://na01.safelinks.protection.o...gUg9qFIh9ephWyYr8zIgkc0Lo6IQTOf+U=&reserved=0, not sure exactly where.
My take was that it will come with 1/8" non-flush pulled rivets. So pre-punch non-dimpled holes. If one wanted to flush rivet you would have to either buck 1/8" rivets which is not easy or go with cherry max which are very expensive.
AeroEngineer
Well Known Member
... or use the flush version of the blind rivets used by Van's. The dome-head one is the LP4, and the flush one (used here and there on various RVs) is the CS4, according to Section 5.
No. The CS-4 rivets do not have the strength of the LP4-3. Van's has explicitly stated not to use CS-4 rivets if feel the need to build it with flush rivets. You'll need to use Cherrymax or solid 1/8" flush rivets.
Important to review this https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHa7N05sDms&t=1086s&data=05|02||47802cbbe9704b97d65908ddccfd01d0|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|638892109232601669|Unknown|TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ==|0|||&sdata=4bC2nIOVlFgUg9qFIh9ephWyYr8zIgkc0Lo6IQTOf+U=&reserved=0. At the 49.00 minute mark of the video there is a discussion about pre-dimpled holes and flush rivets. Rian specifically states that CS4 rivets have less strength than LP4's and states that one should use Cherry Max if going that route.
N10KE
Well Known Member
It sounds like the use of solid rivets will not be practical on the 15, as it appears the focus is on making this easier to manufacture for MOSAIC. I doubt Van’s will be providing a build sequence using solids. Cherrymax might be an option, but the cost will increase.
Someone in line near me was asking about this. What I overheard:
- only one kit. They will not make a kit for pulled and a kit for solid / flush rivets
- if you want solid/flush rivets, they will have to be 1/8" as the holes are already sized for this. It is doable.
The Van's employee (I forget who it was) also said there was no plan for a QB option, as the standard kits are so straightforward to build.
N10KE
Well Known Member
Wasn't looking for a separate kit for flush rivets, just wondered if they would provide a build sequence in the build manual for solid rivets. Doesn't sound like it. Yes, it is probably doable, but there will be a lot of head scratching and pre-planning involved if someone decides to attempt it. Was hoping it would come from Van's as announced previously.
Yep, what sn did you end up with?
104 which is likely a huge difference than first thing Tuesday am?
They told me at the factory the plans ship with the kits - at the same time and not before.
I ordered online Saturday 26 July, was able to add it to my Van's account Monday the 28th and see my serial number, email with serial number arrived Thursday 31 July.
Received my confirmation today. Ser # 125.
