Newby questions

[Flagella72]

Serious (purposeful) questions. Looking for advice.

Background::

• Me: PPL 2021 - ~200 hours currently. 58 yo. Retired Project, Program Manager ex-VP at Fortune 100 type companies.
• Current Plane: own a low time Cessna 152 which I helped rebuild engine and airframe in 2020. Pure time builder and making available for others to learn. I am not an A&P and had no prior plane MX experience.
• Not IFR rated yet. I don’t have aspirations of progressing to Commercial or Multi. Maybe CFI in real retirement to help others. No real local school at my home airport.

• Building an RV-10. Started 2/2023. Section 30 now - Fuse Side skins. 60% done - 90% to go
• Quick build wings.
• Have all Van’s kits in hand except Firewall Forward (will order pieces needed - not kit)
• Have IO/540 - narrow deck at 1800 hours - in hand - just taken off flying airplane. Flying great. Full oil analysis history. No prop strike etc. Plan to complete plane with this and rebuild engine 500 hrs in maybe
• Have new MT- 3-blade composite prop in hand.
• Have a full quote from Stein Air - for complete Garmin G3X panel. 6 month lead time - start to finish.
• Have multiple A&P type, on field, mentors who guide me on specific build skills, powerplant install etc.
• Have a mature project plan and budget for all final parts / pieces needed to complete RV-10.
• Last 3 years to AirVenture and spouse says - “get er done”

I believe we can finish the RV-10 in 6-9 months - likely not Airventure this year Paint and OSH another year.
Of course I will go and get transition training to the RV-10 for my skills and for insurance reasons.

Questions:

1. RV-10 testing /break-in: Can I train to do this myself (again not a new engine) or should I be looking for an experienced RV-10 pilot mentor or 10,000 hour friend to help / guide / do this phase?

1. Should I go get / finish up IFR training (IFR6.com as a personal recommended example) prior to my plane completion - or wait til RV-10 is done and complete training in my new plane? If I can do test phase without IFR - sort of answers this but would welcome recommendations.

I thought these would lead to a hearty discussion.

Kevin Ellingwood

 

[PhatRV]

I can only give you my experience with my RV8

I had about 150 hours when I started Phase1 of my RV8

I hired a test pilot to do the maiden flight, the engine break-in, and other rudimentary control checkouts. I went on to get some training before soloing my RV8. From that experience, I realized was woefully lacking of the skills to perform the maiden flight. There are plenty of experienced test pilots in the SoCal region so it was an easy choice and it was money well spent. Another RV8 builder I know used the same system.

I had my hands full during phase 1 testing. I suggest get that testing done, because I discovered a myriad of little things in the RV8 that needed fixing, and other adjustments. You can use the phase1 testing time to program your auto pilot, load approaches, to test the system, checkout power settings for the various performance modes, watch the avionics for anything amiss. I would not want to fly with the hood down during phase 1.

I just spoke with a RV10 builder at the field. He had spent 15 years slow-building his RV10 and the wings aren't on the plane yet. You are making fast progress

Edit: hiring a test pilot for the first few hours is NOT expensive. It is comparable to the cost of flight training per hour. Plus an experienced test pilot inspect your airplane and provide you with other comments about your airplane setup, how it performs, its stall behaviors, what to look for when you fly, as part of the flight test debrief so they won't be surprise to you when you solo in your RV10.

 

[AlpineYoda]

Questions:

1. RV-10 testing /break-in: Can I train to do this myself (again not a new engine) or should I be looking for an experienced RV-10 pilot mentor or 10,000 hour friend to help / guide / do this phase?
2. Should I go get / finish up IFR training (IFR6.com as a personal recommended example) prior to my plane completion - or wait til RV-10 is done and complete training in my new plane? If I can do test phase without IFR - sort of answers this but would welcome recommendations.

I thought these would lead to a hearty discussion.

Kevin Ellingwood

1 - Depends on your insurance and your experience level. For my first flight in my RV-10 (built it myself), my insurance company wanted 5 hours of transition training before I could fly solo. I have a decent amount of experience in low wing aircraft (Cirrus, Diamonds, Seminoles) and a CFI friend has a RV-12 that he built as well as thousands of hours in a variety of planes. Neither of us had ever flown an RV-10 before, but we figured we had enough proximate experience to try the first flight. By the 3rd hour, I had it down pat. The 4th and 5th hours were just for insurance.

If you are well experienced in low wing, high performance, slippery aircraft, the RV-10 should be easy to learn. If all your time is in your 152, you might want to get some serious transition training. And, as I said, insurance might dictate everything. One provider I talked to wanted me to have 50 hours time in type before they would insure it. There was no way I could get that.

2 - I suggest wrapping up IFR training as soon as possible, and not in your new plane. Learning a new skill set while still mastering a new plane is hard times two. Get the IFR ticket in a plane you know, then learn how to fly IFR in a plane you don't know.

 

[Auburntsts]

My $.02:
1. Flight testing- this is really up to you after some serious reflection upon your currency, proficiency, and comfort level/risk acceptance. The 10 is pretty easy to fly so it's more about the gulf in going from the 152 to a high performance single. You can absolutely do it yourself as I did it as a 250hr-ish instrument Rated Private pilot with 95% of my time in 172s. That said nothing wrong farming some of the testing out, especially the first flight to a more experienced pilot. There's also the additional pilot program (AC 90-116) which would give you the best of both worlds.
2. The IFR kinda depends. If you have the time then go for it -- I did. In fact, I was grateful I did because it did 2 things: A. It got me current and proficient after a long hiatus from flying while I was focused on building. B. I felt at the top of my game as far as flying skills and multitasking, both kind of necessary during flight testing (this was before the additional pilot program).

 

[AlpineYoda]

Two more thoughts - I assume your used IO-540 is stock. That's a 260 HP engine and you will need a high performance endorsement if you don't have one already. If all your time is in a 152, you also may not be familiar with constant speed props and the blue lever. You may want to consider getting your IFR in a 182 or SR-22 or something over 200 HP with a constant speed prop to check all those boxes before trying to fly the RV-10 just to limit how much you are learning at once.

 

[Auburntsts]

Two more thoughts - I assume your used IO-540 is stock. That's a 260 HP engine and you will need a high performance endorsement if you don't have one already. If all your time is in a 152, you also may not be familiar with constant speed props and the blue lever. You may want to consider getting your IFR in a 182 or SR-22 or something over 200 HP with a constant speed prop to check all those boxes before trying to fly the RV-10 just to limit how much you are learning at once.

Or just go take a single training flight and get the HP sign-off. I did mine in a Bonanza. No need to pay the extra coin to rent a much more expensive aircraft for the IR just to learn about a constant speed operation.

 

[Flagella72]

Thanks for all these great answers. I do have high performance time as part of my PPL training before I bought the 152. Sounds like getting IFR prior would be smoother and sooner for me - and limit variables at flight test time.
Kevin

 

[rocketman1988]

Or just go take a single training flight and get the HP sign-off. I did mine in a Bonanza. No need to pay the extra coin to rent a much more expensive aircraft for the IR just to learn about a constant speed operation.

Sorry, that endorsement means that they are competent to fly HP aircraft; that may or may not be one flight. I certainly have had students wanting that endorsement in one flight but did not demonstrate competency. End result is they did not get the endorsement and needed additional time to become competent.

No, I am not trying to build time; I have more than enough. I am more concerned with turning someone loose to fly HP aircraft before they are ready. Anything less is pencil whipping their logbook...

 

[Auburntsts]

Sorry, that endorsement means that they are competent to fly HP aircraft; that may or may not be one flight. I certainly have had students wanting that endorsement in one flight but did not demonstrate competency. End result is they did not get the endorsement and needed additional time to become competent.

No, I am not trying to build time; I have more than enough. I am more concerned with turning someone loose to fly HP aircraft before they are ready. Anything less is pencil whipping their logbook...

Fair enough, and don’t disagree that some make take significantly more time, but I disagree with choosing an HP aircraft to do the IR in simply because you don’t have an HP endorsement. That is unkess money is no object, then by all means.

 

[BobTurner]

Call Jenny or Leah at Gallagher (insurance broker, they advertise here) and have a talk. At 200 hrs and zero -10 time insurance will be expensive no matter what, but having the IFR rating may make a difference. Ask them, they’ll know. If you plan to get a cfi you will need IFR and commercial, first. Insurance will want some RV10 dual time(unless you are willing to fly without insurance) and even with the recent FAR changes this still requires a LODA. There are not a lot of options, don’t wait too long to get on someone’s schedule. OTOH I suspect your estimate of the completion date is wildly optimistic. IMHO many non-instrument pilots don’t really know what they want /need for avionics until after they have some actual instrument experience, so my advice is to get that rating now.

 

[atwoodm]

Agree with Bob that the finish schedule is very optimistic. I've completed a slow build 14A in 3.5 years (including painting it), and I'm 3 years into building a 10. Section 30 was a year ago, and I think I still have a year left (including painting which is probably 3 months). The cabin top, doors, interior are a fair bit of work.

That aside, I'd suggest looking at the Additional Pilot Program for your test flight and phase one testing. If you know someone that's qualified, it's a great help not only with the 1st flight, but all the testing flights to have a second pilot in the plane. Also agree that you'll need at least 5 hours for insurance either an RV10 or an RV14A or 7A (our insurance considered those similar enough in speed/performance).

As for IFR, all of your testing will be VFR, so not necessary for that. But I'm an advocate that it will make you a much safer pilot, so sooner is better. Good luck!! And reach out if you have building questions... Most of it is still pretty fresh and like I said, I still have a year to go.

 

[AlpineYoda]

• Not IFR rated yet. I don’t have aspirations of progressing to Commercial or Multi. Maybe CFI in real retirement to help others. No real local school at my home airport.

• Not IFR rated yet. I don’t have aspirations of progressing to Commercial or Multi. Maybe CFI in real retirement to help others. No real local school at my home airport.

1. Should I go get / finish up IFR training (IFR6.com as a personal recommended example) prior to my plane completion - or wait til RV-10 is done and complete training in my new plane? If I can do test phase without IFR - sort of answers this but would welcome recommendations

Going to get on my soapbox for a second... Tonight after work I decided to fly down to St Louis and see the arch at night. It's about 2.0 on the Hobbs, which is good for the engine and the pilot after a few weeks of low ceilings, winds, and snow kept me grounded.

Foreflight showed things were nice, with some clouds building west of St L later. ADSB weather was clear. Aviationweather.gov looked good. The flight down was beautiful. Overflew a couple of airports on the way at 6500. Dropped down to 2500. Called Downtown St Louis (KCPS) to clear my transit of Delta to avoid the KSTL Bravo. Briefly hit a fog bank on the autopilot descent. Figured it was something due to the Mississippi and the dewpoint. Didn't think much of it. Flew past the arch. Put the plane into a 30 degree roll with rudder opposite to take some nice photos. Was climbing back out when I saw some clouds that were not on ADSB weather (I have triple G3x displays and a GTN 650). Kept climbing to avoid once I was no longer under the Bravo and turned back toward my home field. Stars above me and house lights below me. Lovely.

Cruising along, everything suddenly went blind. The clouds were not visible in advance given the very slight midwestern middle of nowhere ambient light before I hit them. Light chop. Then moderate chop. Then maybe more than moderate. I started climbing, hoping to get on top. Blind all around and the chop was getting worse. I slowed to maneuvering speed since I was getting worried about how much I was getting thrown around. I had no idea if I was in a storm cell or a thermal or what else. I scrolled the g3x to the weather tab and it showed that I was in the clear. The nearest green weather blob was 20 miles away. This wasn't supposed to be happening. There is no weather in the forecast, but now I am in IMC at night on a VFR trip. I figured higher is better than lower to give me options, and I kept climbing to 9500 (East bound and I left my o2 cylinder in the hangar, so really really high wasn't an option). 75 nm from my destination, I called the class C tower for my destination in the blind, hoping the radio would reach while I bounced all over the place. They replied, and I said that I did not file IFR but I just found myself in IMC and moderate or worse chop. I am IFR current. Trying to find a way out. They gave me vectors and an altitude. Broke out a while later. Flew the ILS head down just for kicks. Obviously, I am here to tell the tale.

What is my soapbox?? GET THE INSTRUMENT RATING. Everyone should have one. I cannot believe that the FAA does not mandate it. To the people who don't have one - have you ever driven a car in fog you weren't expecting? rain? snow? Yeah, it happens even when you think it won't. Just happened to me - this was supposed to be a VFR trip without a cloud within 500 miles of me. All my IFR training kept me calm and level and gave me options as the unforeseen weather got worse and worse and worse and worse. And when everything I tried (new course, new altitude) didn't make it better, I figured that the worst case scenario was that I would fly IFR back to my field until I flew an instrument approach. Anything better than that would be gravy.

This reminds me of the day I was flying with my young son in Colorado. It was supposed to be a "clear and a million" kind of day. The weather briefer said things were perfect. Then we got to our destination and there were clouds to the horizon. Fuel was too low to reverse course enough to find where the clouds stopped. I called flight following for a pop-up IFR clearance and flew through it without an incident.

Get your instrument rating today. Not tomorrow. Not someday. Not next year. Get it now.

 

[Jim F]

Good advice all around
I have a newly minted 10 and love it!
The step up to the 10 from any of the Cessnas is substantial
I had 900 hrs on my 9A and found the transition training challenging (but worth it)
Mike Seeger was great
Also get and use the EAA Flight Test Manual and cards. They work you through the testing in a professional and orderly process
You will love the 10 but respect it for the high performance machine that it is

 

[Ironflight]

Lots of good ideas here, but one that hasn’t been mentioned is that you should find and build a relationship with an EAA Flight Advisor. The service is free, most all FA’s have extensive experience with experimental aircraft and helping folks evaluate their specific skill set, needs, and what they need to do to accomplish their goals. Random advice on the internet can get you ideas, but an FA will sit down and evaluate YOUR case specifically.

I have heard folks complain that they can’t find an FA local to them. Fair enough - there are far fewer FA’s than Tech Counselors. But I have counseled folks remotely many times - take advanation of the resources that are out there!

Paul

 

[Scott Hersha]

Thanks Paul (beat me to it). If you have an EAA chapter near you, check with them to see if their chapter has a Flight Advisor. Or just go to the EAA website (EAA.org), and search there for Flight Advisor on the upper right corner of the web page. In doing a quick search, not knowing your parameters, I found an EAA FA in East Falmouth. What you are seeking is exactly what the EAA FA program is all about. You are wise in being open to help.
Best of luck.

 

[DanH]

1. RV-10 testing /break-in: Can I train to do this myself (again not a new engine) or should I be looking for an experienced RV-10 pilot mentor or 10,000 hour friend to help / guide / do this phase?

For the first flights (plural), look around at all available pilots. Send the one with the most recent experience in the aircraft model. It may or may not be you. It may not be the pilot with the most hours or the most ratings. IF things start going bad, the pilot familiar with the aircraft will do the best.

I've done first flights, and I've asked friends to do first flights. Just send the best available for the case. Believe me, you're not missing anything. Your first flight will be just as exciting, regardless of first or fifth for the airplane.

Get your instrument rating today. Not tomorrow. Not someday. Not next year. Get it now.

Control of the aircraft by reference to flight instruments is taught at the PPL level. A pilot who loses control flying into a cloud hasn't bothered to maintain required skills. The real need is regular hood time, regardless of ratings. Most of us don't get nearly enough.

 

[rocketman1988]

For the first flights (plural), look around at all available pilots. Send the one with the most recent experience in the aircraft model. It may or may not be you. It may not be the pilot with the most hours or the most ratings. IF things start going bad, the pilot familiar with the aircraft will do the best.

I've done first flights, and I've asked friends to do first flights. Just send the best available for the case. Believe me, you're not missing anything. Your first flight will be just as exciting, regardless of first or fifth for the airplane.



Control of the aircraft by reference to flight instruments is taught at the PPL level. A pilot who loses control flying into a cloud hasn't bothered to maintain required skills. The real need is regular hood time, regardless of ratings. Most of us don't get nearly enough.

That’s a fact.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

On getting your IFR ticket, I suggest considering deferring until after your RV-10 is flying.

I had three failed attempts at getting the IFR ticket in one clunky Cessna 172 or another. I was flying my first build (RV-8A) and every time I got into the rented 172 I hated the plane’s poor power, heavy controls and archaic panel so much I walked away. Once the RV-10 was done and the Phase 1 was flown off I was very comfortable then doing all my IFR training and flight exam it it.

Carl

 

[rocketman1988]

On getting your IFR ticket, I suggest considering deferring until after your RV-10 is flying.

I had three failed attempts at getting the IFR ticket in one clunky Cessna 172 or another. I was flying my first build (RV-8A) and every time I got into the rented 172 I hated the plane’s poor power, heavy controls and archaic panel so much I walked away. Once the RV-10 was done and the Phase 1 was flown off I was very comfortable then doing all my IFR training and flight exam it it.

Carl

IF you can find a DPE to give the checkride in an experimental aircraft. IF you can find an instructor to train you in an experimental aircraft.

Also, the 172 makes a BETTER instrument trainer, in most cases, because it is slow and sluggish to respond. For a new instrument pilot, slowing things down is a good thing.

Also remember that any equipment installed in the aircraft is fair game during a checkride. It can be either working or the DPE may decide to fail it. How many of you guys practice partial panel with a fancy EFIS suite? In the case of getting an instrument rating, simpler is better.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

IF you can find a DPE to give the checkride in an experimental aircraft. IF you can find an instructor to train you in an experimental aircraft.

I did.

Also, the 172 makes a BETTER instrument trainer, in most cases, because it is slow and sluggish to respond. For a new instrument pilot, slowing things down is a good thing.

I disagree. After flying off Phase 1 the OP will be comfortable with the plane and will find the RV-10 to be very good IFR trainer, and in my opinion far superior to a 172.

Also remember that any equipment installed in the aircraft is fair game during a checkride. It can be either working or the DPE may decide to fail it. How many of you guys practice partial panel with a fancy EFIS suite? In the case of getting an instrument rating, simpler is better.

Yep, the DPE failed the pilot side EFIS screen (14 years ago, first generation SkyView install). And yes I still practice approaches on one screen.

For me, the most dangerous IFR I could ever do (which I never will) is with an old school Six Pack. How you guys flew IMC approaches with that is beyond me.
Carl

 

[rocketman1988]

I did.

I disagree. After flying off Phase 1 the OP will be comfortable with the plane and will find the RV-10 to be very good IFR trainer, and in my opinion far superior to a 172.


Yep, the DPE failed the pilot side EFIS screen (14 years ago, first generation SkyView install). And yes I still practice approaches on one screen.

For me, the most dangerous IFR I could ever do (which I never will) is with an old school Six Pack. How you guys flew IMC approaches with that is beyond me.
Carl

Sorry, we will have to disagree, based on thousands of hours instruction given.

The RV series of aircraft are quick and responsive. This is not a great benefit when trying to LEARN to fly instrument procedures and without any outside reference.

Failing one EFIS screen is a joke, right? If you still have one screen, you have lost very little if anything. Try flying that approach with your standby.

“How you guys flew IMC approaches with that is beyond me.”

With a wiz wheel, paper charts, paper, and pencil , as well. It took practice.

One thing I have learned over the years is to be able to “create time” into whatever task you are attempting. It is FAR easier to “create time” in a 172 than an RV-10.

Is it possible to use the -10? Sure. You could use a 747, too…but would you?

The DPE is going to hold you to the same standards, regardless. That +/- 100 ‘ is FAR easier to remain within using a 172 than a -10…something to consider.

 

[BobTurner]

Sorry, we will have to disagree, based on thousands of hours instruction given.

The RV series of aircraft are quick and responsive. This is not a great benefit when trying to LEARN to fly instrument procedures and without any outside reference.

Failing one EFIS screen is a joke, right? If you still have one screen, you have lost very little if anything. Try flying that approach with your standby.

“How you guys flew IMC approaches with that is beyond me.”

With a wiz wheel, paper charts, paper, and pencil , as well. It took practice.

You forgot the stop watch. And NDB approaches. And when was the last time anyone gave a position report?
Seriously, I usually side with Karl’s opinions, but not this time. But I think I can offer an explanation, too. My observation is that pilots who learn ifr on a 6-pack can later transition to electronic screens without too much difficulty. But the opposite is not true. Pilots who initially train for ifr with electronic screens have a very difficult time if they find themselves with a 6-pack. And it appears that Karl attempted to do that - flew his efis equipped rv and then tried to transition to a 6-pack 172. I do not know why going ‘backwards’ is so hard, but it seems to me to be the case for many.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

You forgot the stop watch. And NDB approaches. And when was the last time anyone gave a position report?
Seriously, I usually side with Karl’s opinions, but not this time. But I think I can offer an explanation, too. My observation is that pilots who learn ifr on a 6-pack can later transition to electronic screens without too much difficulty. But the opposite is not true. Pilots who initially train for ifr with electronic screens have a very difficult time if they find themselves with a 6-pack. And it appears that Karl attempted to do that - flew his efis equipped rv and then tried to transition to a 6-pack 172. I do not know why going ‘backwards’ is so hard, but it seems to me to be the case for many.

Because time marches on. Back in the day I navigated submerged across the Pacific with not much more than a sharp pencil, a chart and if lucky a NAVSAT once in awhile. Better technology came along, the same goes with fully integrated EFIS displays. I don’t practice NDB approaches either.

Learn IFR on the plane that you will fly IFR. It paid divends for me.

Carl

 

[rocketman1988]

You forgot the stop watch. And NDB approaches. And when was the last time anyone gave a position report?
Seriously, I usually side with Karl’s opinions, but not this time. But I think I can offer an explanation, too. My observation is that pilots who learn ifr on a 6-pack can later transition to electronic screens without too much difficulty. But the opposite is not true. Pilots who initially train for ifr with electronic screens have a very difficult time if they find themselves with a 6-pack. And it appears that Karl attempted to do that - flew his efis equipped rv and then tried to transition to a 6-pack 172. I do not know why going ‘backwards’ is so hard, but it seems to me to be the case for many.

I agree. Yes, stopwatch, too.

As far as position reports, well, we still have to make them, typically when flying WATRS routes to the islands down south.

 

[rocketman1988]

Because time marches on. Back in the day I navigated submerged across the Pacific with not much more than a sharp pencil, a chart and if lucky a NAVSAT once in awhile. Better technology came along, the same goes with fully integrated EFIS displays. I don’t practice NDB approaches either.

Learn IFR on the plane that you will fly IFR. It paid divends for me.

Carl

Only if you will never fly any other aircraft IFR…

 

[AZSteve053]

Serious (purposeful) questions. Looking for advice.

Background::

• Me: PPL 2021 - ~200 hours currently. 58 yo. Retired Project, Program Manager ex-VP at Fortune 100 type companies.
• Current Plane: own a low time Cessna 152 which I helped rebuild engine and airframe in 2020. Pure time builder and making available for others to learn. I am not an A&P and had no prior plane MX experience.
• Not IFR rated yet. I don’t have aspirations of progressing to Commercial or Multi. Maybe CFI in real retirement to help others. No real local school at my home airport.

• Building an RV-10. Started 2/2023. Section 30 now - Fuse Side skins. 60% done - 90% to go
• Quick build wings.
• Have all Van’s kits in hand except Firewall Forward (will order pieces needed - not kit)
• Have IO/540 - narrow deck at 1800 hours - in hand - just taken off flying airplane. Flying great. Full oil analysis history. No prop strike etc. Plan to complete plane with this and rebuild engine 500 hrs in maybe
• Have new MT- 3-blade composite prop in hand.
• Have a full quote from Stein Air - for complete Garmin G3X panel. 6 month lead time - start to finish.
• Have multiple A&P type, on field, mentors who guide me on specific build skills, powerplant install etc.
• Have a mature project plan and budget for all final parts / pieces needed to complete RV-10.
• Last 3 years to AirVenture and spouse says - “get er done”

I believe we can finish the RV-10 in 6-9 months - likely not Airventure this year Paint and OSH another year.
Of course I will go and get transition training to the RV-10 for my skills and for insurance reasons.

Questions:

1. RV-10 testing /break-in: Can I train to do this myself (again not a new engine) or should I be looking for an experienced RV-10 pilot mentor or 10,000 hour friend to help / guide / do this phase?
2. Should I go get / finish up IFR training (IFR6.com as a personal recommended example) prior to my plane completion - or wait til RV-10 is done and complete training in my new plane? If I can do test phase without IFR - sort of answers this but would welcome recommendations.

I thought these would lead to a hearty discussion.

Kevin Ellingwood

Strongly consider you learn about "Additional Pilot Program for Phase I Flight Test", you could participate, get dual as appropriate & able, build time for insurance.
I would highly recommend.... AC that describes program attached.

 

[AlpineYoda]

Control of the aircraft by reference to flight instruments is taught at the PPL level. A pilot who loses control flying into a cloud hasn't bothered to maintain required skills. The real need is regular hood time, regardless of ratings. Most of us don't get nearly enough.

Yes, it was taught in the PPL curriculum. But I think it was an hour or two or something like that? And a hood or foggles on a sunny day really isn't the same thing as what you will encounter when things turn bad. Flying real approaches in IMC or doing the 6 approaches in a sim every six months where the screens go blank and you really have to focus on the instruments is much harder than a hood where you can still look out the corner, and you have a CFI sitting next to you keeping you safe. The tiny bit of simulated IMC you get during the PPL training pales in comparison to the IFR program. Last night, suddenly in unexpected IMC at night, solo, 100+ miles from home, it wasn't the PPL training that kept me calm and level, it was the IFR training and the currency requirements.

 

[esco]

For the first flights (plural)… Send the one with the most recent experience in the aircraft model. It may or may not be you. It may not be the pilot with the most hours or the most ratings. IF things start going bad, the pilot familiar with the aircraft will do the best.

Restating your first question: “Am I qualified to test-fly the airplane that I just built in my garage?”
A very relevant article at Kitplanes, “Pilot Proficiency” helps any builder answer the question, including discussion of risk/reward, qualifications, resources, and a selection process for a first-flight pilot.

 

[turbo]

Just like flying a new bought plane but probably better because you built it. get up in the air with someone who is familiar with the machine and avionics. hopefully you have spent time learning the stuff before the first flight. once you feel good to go just go for it and have plenty of $ for gas. get some buddies to help out and 'share the expenses '. IFR, practice flying airport to AP useing all equipment on hand. you can load approaches and overfly the airports at 3,000', eventually low approaches. that's what I would do. yes it was 25 years ago but that was my successful plan. enjoy the ride.

 

[sansoneservices]

I did.

I disagree. After flying off Phase 1 the OP will be comfortable with the plane and will find the RV-10 to be very good IFR trainer, and in my opinion far superior to a 172.


Yep, the DPE failed the pilot side EFIS screen (14 years ago, first generation SkyView install). And yes I still practice approaches on one screen.

For me, the most dangerous IFR I could ever do (which I never will) is with an old school Six Pack. How you guys flew IMC approaches with that is beyond me.
Carl

172 with a six pack is plenty, has been for decades. F-flight with moving maps were the bomb. Many cfi's didn't allow the moving maps, made it too easy I guess. The flight school that contracted me for maintenance had DA40's with fancy glass panel garmins. For final check rides the old school 172's were used most

 

[ve0kog]

172 with a six pack is plenty, has been for decades.

The IFR rating with the glass panel and AP may take only a few days to complete and probably results in a decently safe pilot. 100% hand flown six pack IFR training
takes months, most of it learning how to not get distracted and stay within the ACS tolerance on heading and altitidue. that hand flying skill is so perishable I would hate to rely on it in actual conditions. There is probably a very small number of pilots who have mastered it and able to stay profficient.

 

[sansoneservices]

The IFR rating with the glass panel and AP may take only a few days to complete and probably results in a decently safe pilot. 100% hand flown six pack IFR training
takes months, most of it learning how to not get distracted and stay within the ACS tolerance on heading and altitidue. that hand flying skill is so perishable I would hate to rely on it in actual conditions. There is probably a very small number of pilots who have mastered it and able to stay profficient.

In regards to just a ppl rating the Garmin glass panels added more time required.

 

[rocketman1988]

In regards to just a ppl rating the Garmin glass panels added more time required.

Maybe more time required but fewer stick and rudder skills mastered.