What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

N941WR Rebuild Update

17.25?!?

Is that a typo:eek:? I'm not sure I could put 17.25gph through my O-360 if I tried.

Granted, I haven't tried, and fly from a 4k airport and lean accordingly, but that is surprising to me. Maybe you should install a 540 ;)?
 
Is that a typo:eek:? I'm not sure I could put 17.25gph through my O-360 if I tried.

Granted, I haven't tried, and fly from a 4k airport and lean accordingly, but that is surprising to me. Maybe you should install a 540 ;)?

OK, I admit it, I have a Super -9! ;)

I just checked my data logs and it looks like I'll have to calibrate my fuel flow.
The fuel flow is showing 11.875 gallons remaining out of 36 (24.125 burned) over 1.375 hours. But when I look at the fuel level in the tanks, they are show I have 7.9375 and 14.0625 gallons in each tank, which equates to 14 gallons burned over that same 1.375 hours for a fuel flow of a little over 10 GPH.

That sounds more reasonable.
 
Is that a typo:eek:? I'm not sure I could put 17.25gph through my O-360 if I tried.

Granted, I haven't tried, and fly from a 4k airport and lean accordingly, but that is surprising to me. Maybe you should install a 540 ;)?

Could be possible. FF for a 540 at WOT at SL is in the 25+ GPH 'hood. 2/3 of that would be 16.6, so down low and running hard, it could be up there. Overall burn for the flight should be lower, as Bill showed below, but that initial takeoff/climb burn can be up there...especially for the newest Super 9 on the block! :D

OK, I admit it, I have a Super -9! ;)

I just checked my data logs and it looks like I'll have to calibrate my fuel flow.
The fuel flow is showing 11.875 gallons remaining out of 36 (24.125 burned) over 1.375 hours. But when I look at the fuel level in the tanks, they are show I have 7.9375 and 14.0625 gallons in each tank, which equates to 14 gallons burned over that same 1.375 hours for a fuel flow of a little over 10 GPH.

That sounds more reasonable.

By the way Bill, we have a racing class for Super 9's too...RV Blue! Ya comin' out to play this year? Hmmm? Hmmm? ;)

Glad things are going well!!

Cheers,
Bob
 
3.3 hours and all is well!

3.3 hours on the new engine and all is well. The engine was down one quart of oil, which is to be expected of a new engine and the high power settings I?ve been running.

I swung by the airport today and fixed the AP disconnect button and maybe the static that has plagued the radio since I put the -9 back together. Then, with those tasks done, I took it up for all of 4/10ths of an hour and three landings.

The one thing I notice most about this engine is the extra weight up front. With my EW CG at 76.76, I'm actually in a good situation. The CG with the smaller O-290 placed the CG at 78.82, slightly tail heavy.

The difference in landing is really astounding. With the CG at 78.82 it was really easy to three point it but with the CG up at 76.76, I can roll it on so easy.

The real issue may be that after not flying it for 19 months, I'm simply running down final five mph too fast. Thanks Tony for mentioning that, you might be correct.

The power is addictive, as I knew it would be. While taking off on a 5500 foot runway (elevation 675 ft) I was at pattern altitude before crossing the departure end of the runway and that was without yanking the nose up and climbing anywhere close to Vx or Vy for that matter.

The other thing of note was the improvement in the Dynon Autopilot software. I was a beta tester for Dynon until I wacked the engine. After my incident, they came out with release 5.4, which included some AP upgrades. In the short period of time I had the AP engaged, it seemed much smoother than I remembered, even in the light chop I experienced today.

With luck, I'll get in some more testing this weekend and play with the AP some more. Maybe even fly off the remaining 1.7 hours.

Regarding the fuel flow. I'm tracking the fuel usage and will update the flow rate after a few more fill ups. That is easy enough to do and it would be nice to have it read accurately.

...By the way Bill, we have a racing class for Super 9's too...RV Blue! Ya comin' out to play this year? Hmmm? Hmmm? ;)
...
Cheers,
Bob
Maybe...
 
are you ready

its so nice to be flying again after being down for a while and with some more power on top it seams to be worth it so now all you need is that turbo i have a couple of kits in the works
what do you say
 
its so nice to be flying again after being down for a while and with some more power on top it seams to be worth it so now all you need is that turbo i have a couple of kits in the works
what do you say

Sure, put me in your beta program and send me one for free! :D

Why not, I have helped friends install turbos and SC's on a number of different cars when I was racing.

At one point I seriously looked at adding a turbo to the O-290 because it already had low compression pistons and I thought it would be a good fit.

Since the -9 seems to be optimized for high altitude cruising, a turbo-normalized engine would be a good match for it. Well, except for that Vne TAS thing.

With the O-360 now installed that seems to be putting out more HP than stock, I no longer see the need. Other than being able to say, "I've got a TC in my RV," and having another toy to tinker with, I will pass on this option.

Besides, I don't think I really have a need to go vertical.

Post info on your kit, that is the type of thing I would like to see.
 
My WOT ~ 100F ROP EGT Burn Rate

My stock 8.5:1 O-360-A1A, WOT, ~ 100F ROP EGT burn rate is approximately 14.25 GPH. Where it becomes an issue is in the AirVenture Cup race because of its distance and size of the tanks on our RV-6A. We never know from one year to the next if there is going to be an AirVenture Cup Race but in the recent direction rotation scheme we will be west bound most of the way flying out of Dayton's Wright Brothers airport to Oshkosh this year (hopefully). That is the least desirable route for the race. You are flying against prevailing winds, with several turns requiring low altitude verification passes and some real PITA custom FAA requirements for altitudes in certain sensitive areas. Then when you recover at Fond Du Lac there is always traffic and the control is erratic and you are low on fuel. The alternate year straight line route out of Mitchell, SD is WONDERFUL!

Bob Axsom
 
How to take an hour to go 58 NM at 151 kts

With some test time left to burn on the new engine, I elected to fly 58 NM to Gilliam - Mc Connell Airfield (5NC3) and have some BBQ at the Pick-n-Pig restaurant, located on the field.

As I pulled up my hangar neighbor had his new KitFox IV pulled out and ready for a flight. I suggested he meet me at the Pick-n-Pig only to realize that if I stayed with him, by the time I returned, I would have my test time flown off. The only problem was that I'm still breaking in my new engine, so I couldn't throttle back to KitFox speeds.

The plan was for him to fly at 2500' and I would stay down at 2000' and fly circles around him. The following is the plot from my GPS as played back on Google Earth.

I feel dizzy just looking at it.

Circles%20to%205NC3.png.jpg


You can see where I took off from our home airport and circled 1000' above pattern altitude until he fueled up and got airborne. Then it was off to 5NC3 where I again circled until after he landed.

Left turns were used so I could keep him in sight the entire flight.
 
Bill,

I know how you feel. A year ago my hangar-mate bought a RANS S7 and I flew him over the hill (Sierra) to pick it up. Getting there was about 45 minutes. Coming home I flew "chase" such as it was. Hard to keep the RV behind him, so I did a bunch of similar circular maneuvers over the hour and a half it took getting home.

cheers,
greg
 
No substitute?

Hi Bill,

Glad to see the rebuild is going well and you haver chosen to "up" the HP. In the military we used to say "Fighters, like people seem to get heavier with age". Having built 3 RV's, the first one 20 years ago in the "pre-pre-punched days" and seen the whole HP vs weight arguments, here are a couple of words from the (very) cheap seats.
I just sold my 300HP (yep, LyCon Rocks!) Harmon Rocket. It is truly the ultimate, RV. Flies better than all of them in certain respects, and no RV can out-climb it, and very, very few can come close to keeping up in cruise. No substitute for HP, right? Wanna go fast right? How much green is left on the credit card this month? 205 knots at 14 GPH, awesome, right? (Well 800 indicated at 500 feet is very cool too, at taxpayers expense:) but I digress.

Not so fast. Over the past year I have been breaking in a hybrid RV-6 "X" I built for my Dad, a 6 fuselage with RV4 wings and tail. FP MT prop, 0-320 ND, 945 lbs out the door. Roughly the same size and weight/HP of your 9. If you like acro like I do, this thing is light as a feather, rolls like the HR2 and lands at 52 Knots (nice when you live on a 1500 foot strip). Set up to burn MoGas when 100LL goes up to ten bucks a gallon and cheap to operate, and surprisingly, fast. Given the option to keep one airplane, you see which one I sold. I missed the light, crisp, low cost RV4 I built in 1989.

So, as the rebuild continues, keep that light, simple, low cost thought somewhere tucked away. You may miss it.
I did.

Smokey

Personally I would consider a rebuilt 0-320 Narrow Deck, Catto prop and light accessories. My 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
Hi Bill,

Glad to see the rebuild is going well. In the military we used to say "Fighters, like people seem to get heavier with age". Having built 3 RV's, the first one 20 years ago in the "pre-pre-punched days" and seen the whole HP vs weight arguments...
Smokey

Personally I would consider a rebuilt 0-320 Narrow Deck, Catto prop and light accessories. My 2 cents.

I've been racking my brains regarding the weight gain and a few things came up.

I did not use the same scales, thus the first set may have been off but I kind of doubt it.

Some of the gain came from adding insulation and carpeting to the floor after it was flying with the O-290. The eight pound side panels came with the engine swap.

I also added things like the ANR power supplies, wiring for the auto pilot, additional tie downs, etc. While not a lot of weight by themselves, it all adds up.

Probably the biggest gain was the Dresser re-treads and air stopper tubes. Those things are heavy when compared to the Van's tires and tubes.

The Sam James Cowl may weight a bit more than the Van's cowl because of the rings and the plenum, mostly the plenum.

Other things that changed were large diameter oil lines for the cooler. More Adel clamps throughout the engine compartment, and the like.

Let's see, I also added the EICommander and its wires. That thing only weighs a few ounces, its wires and connectors do add a few more ounces.

I sure wish I had kept track of every little item I added over the years. I went through the entire airframe and didn't find a single mud dauber nest, so I know they didn't increase the empty weight.

You are right and I learned this when I was auto racing, lighter is always better. It makes the machine perform better and handle better.

I always laugh when someone would say my plane or car handles great and it is weighs XXX more than yours. Well, when compared to an SUV or Pickup, anything performs better.

Still, at 1068 lbs, I'm much lighter than many of the RV's out there.

Now that I'm getting ready to replace my D100 EFIS, D10 EMS, and transponder with a 10" SkyView, I wonder if I'll gain or lose weight.
 
...
Not so fast. Over the past year I have been breaking in a hybrid RV-6 "X" I built for my Dad, a 6 fuselage with RV4 wings and tail. FP MT prop, 0-320 ND, 945 lbs out the door. Roughly the same size and weight/HP of your 9. If you like acro like I do, this thing is light as a feather, rolls like the HR2 and lands at 52 Knots (nice when you live on a 1500 foot strip). Set up to burn MoGas when 100LL goes up to ten bucks a gallon and cheap to operate, and surprisingly, fast. Given the option to keep one airplane, you see which one I sold. I missed the light, crisp, low cost RV4 I built in 1989.
...
Smokey

...
Please do a full flight report on the -6X, when you get a chance.
 
You are right and I learned this when I was auto racing, lighter is always better. It makes the machine perform better and handle better.

I always laugh when someone would say my plane or car handles great and it is weighs XXX more than yours. Well, when compared to an SUV or Pickup, anything performs better.

While... lighter and leaner has it's advantages, it usually means less comfort. A friend of mine, owns a Cessna 180 , and built a Cub clone. His preference is still the 180 for cross country flights. Same applies to my RV. I have much more interest in cross country, than flying locally around the patch. Harley Davidson motorcycles are my 2nd favorite sound, next to a Rolls Royce powered P-51 Mustang....................but most Harley owners trailer their cycles to Sturgis...........due the comfort factor.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
For "quickies" (flights around the pattern)............... leaner & lighter is still better...

L.Adamson --- RV6A

For all flights, leaner and lighter is still better...

Just like when I would get behind Harley's at Deal's Gap, nothing would upset me more than putting along SLOWLY behind them.

But then I had been know to catch and pass sport bikes in there. When you have a street car that could pull 1.2G's, there was no need to slow down, ever! Darn, I miss that car!
 
Just like when I would get behind Harley's at Deal's Gap, nothing would upset me more than putting along SLOWLY behind them.

I liked the feel of power..........and always enjoyed my Honda Valkyrie (1998/1520 cc). It was a heavy bike, but very adequately powered. Kind of a cross between a Harley & Honda Wing............comfort wise.

L.Adamson ---- RV6A
 
Wilco!

Bill,

Will get a report out ASAP on my "side by side" RV4, the RV6X, you would love this little airplane! Keeping things light is challenging and actually, cool isn't it? It holds true an all airplanes. The F-16 is a wonderful fighter and does amazing things slick clean and light. Loaded down for a Combat Patrol it still flies good, but more like a loaded SUV!

Smokey
 
Smokey,

That sounds great, we will swap rides, if we are ever at the same place at the same time.

I have heard from two different members of this forum who have flown multiple RV's that a light O-320 powered RV-8 flies very close to an RV-4.

BTW, I'll be happy to take a ride in the Lawn Dart, if you can arrange that. Simply one of the best looking (jet) fighter ever built.
 
Keeping things light is challenging and actually, cool isn't it?

Not all the time. I'll take the acceleration that my constant speed prop gives my RV6A over a wooden prop.........equipped "6".......any day. The difference is very noticeable. The same applies to landings, as the deceleration of a C/S versus the wood prop, is again very noticeable.

See, the problem is, I don't have an accessible F-16 to get my takeoff/acceleration kicks. I just have to get what I can from the RV. :)

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Rock-it!

Hey LA,

Sounds like you need to try out an HR2 :) Again, after 1200 hours behind a high HP C/S, very fast RV, I have gone back to what I love, acceleration in turns!

Mazda RX8 vs Corvette :)

Smokey
 
Hey LA,

Sounds like you need to try out an HR2 :) Again, after 1200 hours behind a high HP C/S, very fast RV, I have gone back to what I love, acceleration in turns!

Mazda RX8 vs Corvette :)

A friend of mine, does nothing but race Mazdas. I've lost count of how many he has. He goes up in my RV once and a while, and I've experienced the accelerated turns in his Mazdas. I never have got into car racing.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Preliminary numbers

OK, the new O-360 is broken in and now has about 14 hours on it and it is time to report on some preliminary numbers.

These are preliminary because the two bladed 72” diameter Catto prop turned out to be a climb prop and not an Ubercruiser, like I requested. Catto is in the process of developing some new prop blades and this was one of his first attempts. As a result of the numbers I’m seeing, he is cutting two additional props for me to test. When those arrive, I’ll do a full battery of flight tests on my current prop and the two new ones. The results of those tests will be published in KitPlanes. So, if you haven’t already subscribed to the magazine, I suggest you do so.

I’m RPM limited at this point. On a recent trip over the mountains between Charlotte, NC and Chattanooga, TN I was at 12,500 feet and on the redline at 2700 RPM with a bunch of throttle left. Thus the need for a different prop. It was very bumpy down low so we climbed for smooth air as I didn’t need my wife puking in my lap.

At that RPM the Dynon was report 65% power and around 8 GPH. My TAS was right at 152 knots. I could lean more aggressively and did a short stint running LOP where the engine seemed very happy.

Climb rates on a 50 degree day with 3/4 tanks and me, call it 1465 lbs, can exceed 2,200 FPM. I say exceed because I chickened out before I got to Vx as I felt like was laying on my back at those deck angles.

In short, I will be more than happy to give up some of that climb performance for more cruise.

Catto is going to cut a more aggressive 72” prop and a 74” prop, both of which should arrive within a month.

More to come.

PS. The 135 HP O-290-D2 was good for 140 KTAS at 65% on the engine's 2600 RPM redline at 8,000'. If I let it wind up, I could get it up to 151 KTAS at 2760 RPM. The best climb number I ever saw was 1800 FPM, solo. Typical climb rates with two up and baggage was in the 1400 FPM range with that climb prop.
 
Last edited:
Paint Job

I posted the following on the "show the progress" thread and thought I would move it over here.

It is 10PM on Saturday night here in NC and my painter just called to give me an update. Last Saturday I dropped the plane off in his shop and by Friday afternoon he has filled all the evil pin holes and has all the fiberglass pieces primed.

He expects to have the fuselage fully primed before the end of this week, maybe even have the base white coat on.

At this rate, he will be finished in three weeks, four at the most.

I'm not sure I want it painted now, I'll be afraid to work on it.

For those of you on FaceBook, he is posting pictures of the progress here.

Gene has just opened his own aircraft paint shop. He is a retired automotive painter and avid RC model builder who is just getting started painting planes. Mine is third one he has done and the first two were BEATUTIFUL!

Not only does he do great work but his prices are unbelievably low. Since he is into model airplanes, he understands the idea of putting on light coats that cover well.

1362 days, 270 hours, and two engines after the first flight, RV-9 N941WR is finally in the paint shop.

Dropped it off this morning and spent 2 1/2 hours taking it apart for the painter.

With luck, it will be finsihed in four weeks and look like this:
 
Won't take him long to figure out what he should charge....... ;)
Yep, and he knows it. Still, he may not raise his rates. He understands the market but would rather stay busy. Good work ethic, he has.

I friend saw the GlassAir he painted and was stunned at how good it looks. I just hope my tractor comes out that nice.
 
End of week 1

The painter called me on Saturday night to say he finished all the fiberglass parts up through primer. That is outstanding!

With luck, he will finish priming the plane this week and might even get the base white coat down.
 
Week 3

It looks like I may have to pick up the plane on Saturday. Oh bummer!

Three weeks and it is ready to pick up. Man, that was FAST!
 
Here's what three weeks will get ya!

This is one of the best paint jobs I've seen. Call it a 6 to 12" paint job!

2011-05-21_18-11-29_148.jpg


2011-05-21_18-11-12_321.jpg

I'm testing props for Catto so the color doesn't match exactly. A new one was waiting for me when I returned home this afternoon with red tips.

2011-05-21_18-41-18_93.jpg


2011-05-21_18-41-32_590.jpg


2011-05-21_18-41-47_469.jpg


2011-05-21_18-42-58_829.jpg


2011-05-21_18-42-32_759.jpg
 
Very nice

Very very nice Bill! When are you going to bring it down here so we can see it up close and personal? :D

See ya soon!!!!!!
 
Very nice

These people that come up with nice paint jobs, create a big problem for me.

Because of the weight I don't want o paint it. But then I see a nice paint job and I want to paint it.

It looks awesome bill.

Yeah Bill, when are you going to bring it down here so we can see it up close and personal.

Bob


RA Australia registered RV9a (1320 lb MTOW)
9 hrs into 25 hr test period
Some paint and graphics to go on the polished ally.
 
Last edited:
Both colors are from 1999 Miatas, the blue is the 10 Anniversery Edition blue. I raced a white one for almost 10 years.


The bottom of the wing looks the same as the top!

I really like the graphics, they flow very nicely. Your buddy did a great job!
 
congrats Bill

Way to go Bill, that is really sharp. I love RVs in white. What is your estimate on weight added? Oh that right, you have all that extra power now!
 
Thanks Bill

Thanks for coming down here to show off your new paint. I sure wish you had called first. We would have stayed around. After it got to 106 in the hangar, my wife and I decided it was time to go home. Please try again. Bring "mini me" with you too. We haven't seen him in a long time. How old is he now?
 
Back
Top