What's new
Van's Air Force

The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!

MOSAIC LSRI course completed

F

FinnFlyer

Well Known Member
So I just completed the Light Sport Repairman Inspection weekend course delivered by Michael Huffman of Sport Aviation Specialties In Georgia.
He and EAA have petitioned the FAA for an administrative (action?) to handle the issue of needing change to AWC op-limits in order to allow annual condition inspection by LSA repairman. FAA seems in no hurry to resolve this.

Students flew in (commercially) as far as from San Diego, CA. I was one of the closer ones -- only a 5 hour drive away.
Is only allowed to take 16 students at a time.
It's in high demand (I think he's got 180 students waiting to do it).
Sounded like he does travel to locations that get together 16 students -- not sure.

I have built two RVs and went through the entire 640 pages of AC 43.13-1B and other FAA documents and I still learned something.

I was under the impression that AC 43-13-1B was revised recently. Nope. Date says 9/8/98. 1998! 27 years ago!

Interesting that there is no FAA requirement for ADSB-Out regular testing unlike the 24 month transponder testing.

For some reason I thought that once your have submitted your paperwork for AWC to FAA or DAR and gotten the AWC, the Gross Weight for the airplane was set in stone. Not so. It's considered a major change, so you have to put it back in Phase I and complete flight testing at the new gross, but no need to contact FAA (unless your op-lims says to do so for a major change).

Practical included fabric testing -- new to me. Got to do compression test on 4-stroke for the first time. Interesting to do ELT test with cheap AM radio (as per FAA instructions).

Now off to the FSDO to get the Repairman cert. Requires a physical visit to the FAA office. Hope my FSDO knows how to do that.

Finn
 
Last edited:
FinnFlyer said:
So I just completed the Light Sport Repairman Inspection weekend course delivered by Michael Huffman of Sport Aviation Specialties In Georgia.
He and EAA have petitioned the FAA for an administrative (action?) to handle the issue of needing change to AWC op-limits in order to allow annual condition inspection by LSA repairman. FAA seems in no hurry to resolve this.

Students flew in (commercially) as far as from San Diego, CA. I was one of the closer ones -- only a 5 hour drive away.
Is only allowed to take 16 students at a time.
It's in high demand (I think he's got 180 students waiting to do it).
Sounded like he does travel to locations that get together 16 students -- not sure.

I have built two RVs and went through the entire 640 pages of AC 43.13-1B and other FAA documents and I still learned something.

Interesting that there is no FAA requirement for ADSB-Out regular testing unlike the 24 month transponder testing.

For some reason I thought that once your have submitted your paperwork for AWC to FAA or DAR and gotten the AWC, the Gross Weight for the airplane was set in stone. Not so. It's considered a major change, so you have to put it back in Phase I and complete flight testing at the new gross, but no need to contact FAA (unless your op-lims says to do so for a major change).

Practical included fabric testing -- new to me. Got to do compression test on 4-stroke for the first time. Interesting to do ELT test with cheap AM radio (as per FAA instructions).

Now off to the FSDO to get the Repairman cert. Requires a physical visit to the FAA office. Hope my FSDO knows how to do that.

Finn
Click to expand...
My next door neighbor was in that same class I am quite sure , but I hadn't talked to him yet for de-brief. He has built an RV-8 and an RV-7 (both sold), now flying an 8A that he didn't build, so this will really benefit folks that are in the same boat. I'm an AP/IA and have been chatting with a lot of folks that are inquiring about trying to get into one of the classes.
 
fixnflyguy said:
My next door neighbor was in that same class I am quite sure , but I hadn't talked to him yet for de-brief. He has built an RV-8 and an RV-7 (both sold), now flying an 8A that he didn't build, so this will really benefit folks that are in the same boat. I'm an AP/IA and have been chatting with a lot of folks that are inquiring about trying to get into one of the classes.
Click to expand...
Yep, I think he sat next to me yesterday. Regretted he sold the one he built.
He'll probably say I was the loudmouth that kept commenting and asking questions. :)
 
I took Michael's class a couple of years ago. A fair question is how much can you cover and learn in a two day, 16 hours class? The answer is a lot! Michael's class is terrific. I learned so much practical stuff.

Michael is an old guy. :) When he and experienced guys like him decide to hang it up I don't know who we have to replace them.
 
FinnFlyer said:
Now off to the FSDO to get the Repairman cert. Requires a physical visit to the FAA office. Hope my FSDO knows how to do that.

Finn
Click to expand...

Check out YouTube


You may have to wait for FAA approval. Unfortunately the rules are not emplace for FAA yet, so you can utilize LSRI.
 
jackking123 said:
Check out YouTube


You may have to wait for FAA approval. Unfortunately the rules are not emplace for FAA yet, so you can utilize LSRI.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that there are two parts. One is getting LSRI rating added via 8610-3. The other is updating the Operating Limitations to allow for LSRI/M to perform condition inspections. The latter is pending 8130.2L

For the former the new 8610-3 was released just before the new year. My local FSDO (Orlando) has been processing the new 8610-3’s. 15 mins in and out with a temp certificate.

** Updated to the correct FAA form. ***
 
Last edited:
Cth6 said:
My understanding is that there are two parts. One is getting LSRI rating added via 8610-2. The other is updating the Operating Limitations to allow for LSRI/M to perform condition inspections. The latter is pending 8130.2L

For the former the new 8610-2 was released just before the new year. My local FSDO (Orlando) has been processing the new 8610-2’s. 15 mins in and out with a temp certificate.
Click to expand...
Looks like you got your numbers confused.
It's FAA 8610-3
Edition date 2025-12-19

But thank you for pointing it out. I had to check if I filled out the right version last night.
 
Last edited:
I was in the class with Finn.

Mike did cover a LOT of information in a short time, but I think it was worth every minute.

I'm a builder 1st, so I look for solutions to maintenance issues....Mike stressed over and over that when functioning as the "inspector" that you really need to leave your mechanic/builder/repairman hat off and just look at the safety, security, and compliance aspects.....note what is wrong and move on......when you finish, change hats and tackle the issue. Is a different approach than what I have normally have....but makes sense when thinking about it.

One issue------I called the Atlanta FSDO and scheduled an appointment (1st available in Feb) to visit them and submit my application for the Repairman Certificate.

Welllllllll---I got an email and call this AM that they had to cancel all appointments for LSRI Repairman Certificates until further notice. (crud!!)

I did speak with a manager for the FSDO and he was very apologetic for the issue. He said he cannot have his inspectors "break the law" and issue the Repairman Certificate based on the LSRI 16 hr course---FOR EABs---until the FAA changes the 8610-3 and publishes an approved process for the inspectors to follow.

My follow-up question is----has anyone had the LSRI Repairman Certificate for EAB issued yet?? If so, is it valid considering the FAA stance at this time??

I cannot blame him/them----but it is frustrating as all get out to spend money and time to do something and then get sorta punched in the face after the fact.....

Marl
 
The FSDO can issue the Temporary Airman Certificate (your LSR-I rating). They cannot issue updated Operating Limitations (which permits you to perform the inspection on your owned aircraft) yet.
 
A buddy and I went to the CLT FSDO last week after attending the a Rainbow Aviation class in November. The FAA fellow was very nice and helpful and issued us temporary certificates with the word "pending" where the certificated number goes. He said the office had issued several certificates in the last couple of weeks. We asked about the need to have the ops letters changed( the one for my RV6 issued back in the 90s specifically says only the original builder or a FAA licensed A&P can perform the condition inspection.) and was told that they were still waiting "guidance" on how to handle the ops letter. My friend ask if he could perform an inspection on his Kitfox based on his temporary certificate and the guy indicated he could. I'm not sure he's correct on that.

Skip
NC
RV4 built and sold(dumb) flying RV6
 
egp8111 said:
A buddy and I went to the CLT FSDO last week after attending the a Rainbow Aviation class in November. The FAA fellow was very nice and helpful and issued us temporary certificates with the word "pending" where the certificated number goes. He said the office had issued several certificates in the last couple of weeks. We asked about the need to have the ops letters changed( the one for my RV6 issued back in the 90s specifically says only the original builder or a FAA licensed A&P can perform the condition inspection.) and was told that they were still waiting "guidance" on how to handle the ops letter. My friend ask if he could perform an inspection on his Kitfox based on his temporary certificate and the guy indicated he could. I'm not sure he's correct on that.

Skip
NC
RV4 built and sold(dumb) flying RV6
Click to expand...
It’s not an “Ops Letter” its “Operating imitations”….and no, until the guidance gets updated and Operatign Limitations changed, your buddy can’t legally sign off the condition inspection….
 
I got my temporary last week or maybe the week prior at the Denver FSDO. It took some back and forth and then the inspector still isted my two owned aircraft on the certificate, but I suspect Oklahoma will just issue the correct blank version. We'll see.
 
Marl said:
Welllllllll---I got an email and call this AM that they had to cancel all appointments for LSRI Repairman Certificates until further notice. (crud!!)

I did speak with a manager for the FSDO and he was very apologetic for the issue. He said he cannot have his inspectors "break the law" and issue the Repairman Certificate based on the LSRI 16 hr course---FOR EABs---until the FAA changes the 8610-3 and publishes an approved process for the inspectors to follow.

My follow-up question is----has anyone had the LSRI Repairman Certificate for EAB issued yet?? If so, is it valid considering the FAA stance at this time??

I cannot blame him/them----but it is frustrating as all get out to spend money and time to do something and then get sorta punched in the face after the fact.....

Marl
Click to expand...
DillTen said:
The FSDO can issue the Temporary Airman Certificate (your LSR-I rating). They cannot issue updated Operating Limitations (which permits you to perform the inspection on your owned aircraft) yet.
Click to expand...
I also got the same email from the Atlanta FSDO this morning. My E-LSA operating limitations already allow for an "owner/operator certified as a repairman" to sign off on the condition inspection. So, in my case, this isn't a limitation. However, my appointment was still cancelled with no indication when they'll start back up.

I understand your frustration. I've been working on this since August. First there was the MOSAIC announcement that immediately filled up all the classes. Then there was the government shutdown. Next it was no appointments until the updated 8610-3 was released. After that, it took nearly two weeks to hear anything back from the FSDO, and the next available appointment was over a month out. Now when my appointment was finally less than a week away, it gets cancelled.

My airplane has been not airworthy for three weeks due to needing it's first condition inspection, and I currently have no idea when I'll be able to sign that off.
 
rv12is said:
I also got the same email from the Atlanta FSDO this morning. My E-LSA operating limitations already allow for an "owner/operator certified as a repairman" to sign off on the condition inspection. So, in my case, this isn't a limitation. However, my appointment was still cancelled with no indication when they'll start back up.

I understand your frustration. I've been working on this since August. First there was the MOSAIC announcement that immediately filled up all the classes. Then there was the government shutdown. Next it was no appointments until the updated 8610-3 was released. After that, it took nearly two weeks to hear anything back from the FSDO, and the next available appointment was over a month out. Now when my appointment was finally less than a week away, it gets cancelled.

My airplane has been not airworthy for three weeks due to needing its' first condition inspection, and I currently have no idea when I'll be able to sign that off.
Click to expand...
As I have said many times, NEVER put anything off waiting on the FAA! Get your inspection done.

Your FSDO should be able to sign off on your repairman certificate under the pre-MOSAIC rules.
 
Mel said:
As I have said many times, NEVER put anything off waiting on the FAA! Get your inspection done.

Your FSDO should be able to sign off on your repairman certificate under the pre-MOSAIC rules.
Click to expand...

Mel, the profile of the forum member you quoted is rv12is. If he is flying a SLSA will be be able to get a legacy repairman certificate?
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Mel, the profile of the forum member you quoted is rv12is. If he is flying a SLSA will be be able to get a legacy repairman certificate?
Click to expand...
I don't see why not. His current Op Lims control his operating limitations. And as far as I know, issuance of the "legacy" repairman certificate has not been cancelled.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Mel, the profile of the forum member you quoted is rv12is. If he is flying a SLSA will be be able to get a legacy repairman certificate?
Click to expand...
Mel said:
I don't see why not. His current Op Lims control his operating limitations. And as far as I know, issuance of the "legacy" repairman certificate has not been cancelled.
Click to expand...
It is an E-LSA. As soon as I got the appointment cancellation email, I responded and asked if it would make any difference that I needed this for an E-LSA I built myself. I also asked, "Any chance to push this through as it would have been before MOSAIC?". I haven't received a response yet. But if pre MOSIAC repairmen certificates are still an option, that's all I need.

Does anyone know if I'm required to work through a specific FSDO? My backup plans right now are to find someone else willing to do an inspection or try working with a different FSDO.
 
rv12is said:
It is an E-LSA. As soon as I got the appointment cancellation email, I responded and asked if it would make any difference that I needed this for an E-LSA I built myself. I also asked, "Any chance to push this through as it would have been before MOSAIC?". I haven't received a response yet. But if pre MOSIAC repairmen certificates are still an option, that's all I need.

Does anyone know if I'm required to work through a specific FSDO? My backup plans right now are to find someone else willing to do an inspection or try working with a different FSDO.
Click to expand...
You do not have to work through a specific FSDO.
 
Marl said:
Are you sure??? I've always been told you can only use the FSDO that covers your address........
Click to expand...
Pretty sure! When I certificate an aircraft outside my home area, my PMI has issued the repairman certificates to them. Maybe it's because I issued the Airworthiness Certificate. I will contact my PMI and see if he can help.
 
Last edited:
I got my temporary certificate from the Nashville FSDo yesterday after a MS Teams call and emails. They were outstanding! Call Nashville FSDo and get er done.
 
rv12is said:
It is an E-LSA. As soon as I got the appointment cancellation email, I responded and asked if it would make any difference that I needed this for an E-LSA I built myself. I also asked, "Any chance to push this through as it would have been before MOSAIC?". I haven't received a response yet. But if pre MOSIAC repairmen certificates are still an option, that's all I need.
Click to expand...
Finally heard back from the FSDO. They are refusing to interview any more LSRI (even legacy) until they receive guidance from the FAA. They did not provide a time estimate as to when this may occur.
 
Last edited:
Marl said:
He said he cannot have his inspectors "break the law" and issue the Repairman Certificate based on the LSRI 16 hr course---FOR EABs---until the FAA changes the 8610-3 and publishes an approved process for the inspectors to follow.
Click to expand...
This whole thing is like watching a slow motion bureaucratic train wreck.

With that said, I’m currently experiencing Mexican bureaucracy associated with international GA travel, and it’s safe to say that their red tape edifice is…. much more impressive. 🤣
 
Baltimore FSDO PIREP . I called to request an appointment to apply for the LSRI certification and my info was recorded. Advised to call back if I don’t hear from an Inspection officer after two weeks.

The operating limitations update would need to be a separate appointment with the airworthiness department after the next revision of 8610-3 is released

now we wait ⌛️
 
I was told by an FAA inspector that 8130.2L should be published anytime now. That will allow you to amend your limitation # 18 that will include 65.109.
That is the reference needed for you to inspect your plane after taking the LSA course.
 
Carol Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation informed me this week that we may learn more during Homebuilder Week next week. I think there may be a session on tis topic.
 
Marl said:
I was in the class with Finn.

Mike did cover a LOT of information in a short time, but I think it was worth every minute.

I'm a builder 1st, so I look for solutions to maintenance issues....Mike stressed over and over that when functioning as the "inspector" that you really need to leave your mechanic/builder/repairman hat off and just look at the safety, security, and compliance aspects.....note what is wrong and move on......when you finish, change hats and tackle the issue. Is a different approach than what I have normally have....but makes sense when thinking about it.

One issue------I called the Atlanta FSDO and scheduled an appointment (1st available in Feb) to visit them and submit my application for the Repairman Certificate.

Welllllllll---I got an email and call this AM that they had to cancel all appointments for LSRI Repairman Certificates until further notice. (crud!!)

I did speak with a manager for the FSDO and he was very apologetic for the issue. He said he cannot have his inspectors "break the law" and issue the Repairman Certificate based on the LSRI 16 hr course---FOR EABs---until the FAA changes the 8610-3 and publishes an approved process for the inspectors to follow.

My follow-up question is----has anyone had the LSRI Repairman Certificate for EAB issued yet?? If so, is it valid considering the FAA stance at this time??

I cannot blame him/them----but it is frustrating as all get out to spend money and time to do something and then get sorta punched in the face after the fact.....

Marl
Click to expand...
Got mine Dec. 18th. Pretty sure it was the 1st one at the Atlanta FSDO. I *knew* I should do it as soon as possible (Murphy was an optimist). But for my E-AB it isn't doing me any good without updated operating limitations. Limitation language is from mid 1990's.

Mark Napier
 
climbak said:
I got my temporary last week or maybe the week prior at the Denver FSDO. It took some back and forth and then the inspector still isted my two owned aircraft on the certificate, but I suspect Oklahoma will just issue the correct blank version. We'll see.
Click to expand...
I just went last week to the Orlando FSDO and they just listed the N number or serial number on the cert. I don’t understand why the drama with the FAA. It would take 30 minutes for them to write an amendment to the Operating Limitations for the Mosaic rule. They’ve had over a year to address it and they are still dragging their feet.

CLARIFICATION: below is what I suggested the FAA should do without hesitation, not what the Orlando FSDO office did. I don’t see this as very complicated amendment

Amendment to Operating Limitations for aircraft built prior to Oct 2025, “An owner of an EAB or ELSA with a repairman cert is allowed to perform a condition inspection they own.”

There, done in less than 5 min, approval stamp, next item on the to do list. Does anyone know why the FAA is having trouble with this???
 
Last edited:
FinnFlyer said:
So I just completed the Light Sport Repairman Inspection weekend course delivered by Michael Huffman of Sport Aviation Specialties In Georgia.
He and EAA have petitioned the FAA for an administrative (action?) to handle the issue of needing change to AWC op-limits in order to allow annual condition inspection by LSA repairman. FAA seems in no hurry to resolve this.

Students flew in (commercially) as far as from San Diego, CA. I was one of the closer ones -- only a 5 hour drive away.
Is only allowed to take 16 students at a time.
It's in high demand (I think he's got 180 students waiting to do it).
Sounded like he does travel to locations that get together 16 students -- not sure.

I have built two RVs and went through the entire 640 pages of AC 43.13-1B and other FAA documents and I still learned something.

I was under the impression that AC 43-13-1B was revised recently. Nope. Date says 9/8/98. 1998! 27 years ago!

Interesting that there is no FAA requirement for ADSB-Out regular testing unlike the 24 month transponder testing.

For some reason I thought that once your have submitted your paperwork for AWC to FAA or DAR and gotten the AWC, the Gross Weight for the airplane was set in stone. Not so. It's considered a major change, so you have to put it back in Phase I and complete flight testing at the new gross, but no need to contact FAA (unless your op-lims says to do so for a major change).

Practical included fabric testing -- new to me. Got to do compression test on 4-stroke for the first time. Interesting to do ELT test with cheap AM radio (as per FAA instructions).

Now off to the FSDO to get the Repairman cert. Requires a physical visit to the FAA office. Hope my FSDO knows how to do that.

Finn
Click to expand...
my FSDO did it all via zoom never left my home
 
Marl said:
I was in the class with Finn.

Mike did cover a LOT of information in a short time, but I think it was worth every minute.

I'm a builder 1st, so I look for solutions to maintenance issues....Mike stressed over and over that when functioning as the "inspector" that you really need to leave your mechanic/builder/repairman hat off and just look at the safety, security, and compliance aspects.....note what is wrong and move on......when you finish, change hats and tackle the issue. Is a different approach than what I have normally have....but makes sense when thinking about it.

One issue------I called the Atlanta FSDO and scheduled an appointment (1st available in Feb) to visit them and submit my application for the Repairman Certificate.

Welllllllll---I got an email and call this AM that they had to cancel all appointments for LSRI Repairman Certificates until further notice. (crud!!)

I did speak with a manager for the FSDO and he was very apologetic for the issue. He said he cannot have his inspectors "break the law" and issue the Repairman Certificate based on the LSRI 16 hr course---FOR EABs---until the FAA changes the 8610-3 and publishes an approved process for the inspectors to follow.

My follow-up question is----has anyone had the LSRI Repairman Certificate for EAB issued yet?? If so, is it valid considering the FAA stance at this time??

I cannot blame him/them----but it is frustrating as all get out to spend money and time to do something and then get sorta punched in the face after the fact.....

Marl
Click to expand...
got mine last week all via zoom your FSDO is absolutely wrong
 
FireMedic_2009 said:
I just went last week to the Orlando FSDO and they just listed the N number or serial number on the cert. I don’t understand why the drama with the FAA. It would take 30 minutes for them to write an amendment to the Operating Limitations for the Mosaic rule. They’ve had over a year to address it and they are still dragging their feet.

Amendment to Operating Limitations for aircraft built prior to Oct 2025, “An owner of an EAB or ELSA with a repairman cert is allowed to perform a condition inspection they own.”

There, done in less than 5 min, approval stamp, next item on the to do list. Does anyone know why the FAA is having trouble with this???
Click to expand...
Two problems with your suggestion, it makes sense and it is against the order 8130.2K. FAA inspectors and DAR's have to get approval from AIR-632 for any changes to the limitations in Appendix D of 8130.2K. Limitation #18 is what needs changing to include 65.109. I was told 8130.2L will have what everybody needs, so we have to wait for it to be published. Timing was "anytime now" but who know what that means in FAA world?
 
SATCFI said:
my FSDO did it all via zoom never left my home
Click to expand...
Mike told us the reason for having to visit the FSDO office in person was so FAA inspector could verify that you can speak, read and write English. I can understand how a Zoom meeting might satisfy the inspector.
 
Baltimore FSDO play-by-play update: the inspector contacted via email and asked to fill out 8610-3 and provide supporting documents. They are now reviewing this and will contact me to setup an appointment. I hope not to bomb English as the second language test :)
 
FinnFlyer said:
Mike told us the reason for having to visit the FSDO office in person was so FAA inspector could verify that you can speak, read and write English. I can understand how a Zoom meeting might satisfy the inspector.
Click to expand...
He looked at my DL and we chatted. Very easy. I signed the application, scanned it and sent the pdf to him, He in turn sent me the temporary certificate. All while on zoom. Took about 35 minutes
 
FinnFlyer said:
Mike told us the reason for having to visit the FSDO office in person was so FAA inspector could verify that you can speak, read and write English. I can understand how a Zoom meeting might satisfy the inspector.
Click to expand...

Add me and a friend of mine who I went to the class with as people who both got their certificates via "Zoom."
 
Tram said:
Add me and a friend of mine who I went to the class with as people who both got their certificates via "Zoom."
Click to expand...
We are not yet on board with Tele Visits on the East coast. LPT: one could call a non-local FSDO (one that is zoom friendly) and use the keyword "hardship" to ask for out of area service. The FSDO would not get "points" for doing this though so they may decline.
 
I just sent an email to the guy helping me at my local Fisdo. He’s been very helpful in helping me get this done. We hopefully he can find the new form. Looks like we are possibly headed for another shutdown so hope the form is ready.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top