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Low-time pilot, new to EAB, looking for RV9s near Bozeman, MT

A

allPrimes

Member
Hello all!

I'm a relatively low-time pilot (just over 200h) all in C172s based in Bozeman, MT. In my lurking here, I've seen a few folks here and there in SW Montana with RVs (one an RV6 with a wonderful paint job I see from time to time on the taxiway) and my fiance and I have decided that an RV9 would likely fit our mission: XCs to the coast for long weekends periodically, grass strips in the mountains, regional flights to see family, or just for fun. (Notably, the then-girlfriend is the one who pushed me to fulfill my childhood dream of having a pilot's license; we're getting married in a few weeks!)

I'm looking for folks nearby who might be willing to answer some questions about RV ownership and let us sit in their plane, and maybe even take us up (one at a time, of course!).

Because everyone will likely ask:

  • not a builder, yet. That really does interest me, but I'm more likely to buy a flying RV as my entry into EAB rather than build first


  • likely an RV9; gentleman's acrobatics sounds like it would be fun (with proper training) but the stability and landing speeds of the -9 make me think it's the one for us

  • preferably a tail-dragger (I DO NOT have a TW endorsement, yet) but only because we have an interest in flying into some mild backcountry strips (Schaefer, Meadow Creek, etc) and camping/hiking/fishing from there

  • I've reached out to the EAA Headwaters chapter in Three Folks but the material on their website is pretty minimal and could be out of date

If I don't generate a ton of responses here, I'll also reach out to each of the folks I've seen that seem like they're Bozeman (or near Bozeman; guy in Townsend, I'm looking at you!)

Happy Sunday and happy flying!

Steven
 
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One thing to keep in mind, RV-9s do exist but they are pretty darn rare compared to the RV-9A model it seems.
 
allPrimes said:
Hello all!

I'm a relatively low-time pilot (just over 200h) all in C172s based in Bozeman, MT. In my lurking here, I've seen a few folks here and there in SW Montana with RVs (one an RV6 with a wonderful paint job I see from time to time on the taxiway) and my fiance and I have decided that an RV9 would likely fit our mission: XCs to the coast for long weekends periodically, grass strips in the mountains, regional flights to see family, or just for fun. (Notably, the then-girlfriend is the one who pushed me to fulfill my childhood dream of having a pilot's license; we're getting married in a few weeks!)

I'm looking for folks nearby who might be willing to answer some questions about RV ownership and let us sit in their plane, and maybe even take us up (one at a time, of course!).

Because everyone will likely ask:

  • not a builder, yet. That really does interest me, but I'm more likely to buy a flying RV as my entry into EAB rather than build first


  • likely an RV9; gentleman's acrobatics sounds like it would be fun (with proper training) but the stability and landing speeds of the -9 make me think it's the one for us

  • preferably a tail-dragger (I DO NOT have a TW endorsement, yet) but only because we have an interest in flying into some mild backcountry strips (Schaefer, Meadow Creek, etc) and camping/hiking/fishing from there

  • I've reached out to the EAA Headwaters chapter in Three Folks but the material on their website is pretty minimal and could be out of date

If I don't generate a ton of responses here, I'll also reach out to each of the folks I've seen that seem like they're Bozeman (or near Bozeman; guy in Townsend, I'm looking at you!)

Happy Sunday and happy flying!

Steven
Click to expand...
Same reasons I’m building an RV-9. I think it’s a wise choice. ��
 
Welcome to the madness.
Just to be sure you’re rational in your expectations, I’d suggest calling an insurance broker, and have a chat. The call is free. I use Leah at the Gallagher Agency (look for their ad here on VAF (it may still have their old name, ‘Nationair’)). There are others, too. Your first year quote will be high, no matter what. For a tailwheel it will be even higher. They’ll probably require some (10hr?) dual TW time beyond the TW endorsement.
You didn’t mention any instrument rating. Usually the insurance companies will give you a small discount for that. But of course an ifr equipped plane is going to cost more than a basic vfr one. Lots of decisions!
 
allPrimes said:
Hello all!

I'm a relatively low-time pilot (just over 200h) all in C172s based in Bozeman, MT. In my lurking here, I've seen a few folks here and there in SW Montana with RVs (one an RV6 with a wonderful paint job I see from time to time on the taxiway) and my fiance and I have decided that an RV9 would likely fit our mission: XCs to the coast for long weekends periodically, grass strips in the mountains, regional flights to see family, or just for fun. (Notably, the then-girlfriend is the one who pushed me to fulfill my childhood dream of having a pilot's license; we're getting married in a few weeks!)

I'm looking for folks nearby who might be willing to answer some questions about RV ownership and let us sit in their plane, and maybe even take us up (one at a time, of course!).

Because everyone will likely ask:

  • not a builder, yet. That really does interest me, but I'm more likely to buy a flying RV as my entry into EAB rather than build first


  • likely an RV9; gentleman's acrobatics sounds like it would be fun (with proper training) but the stability and landing speeds of the -9 make me think it's the one for us

  • preferably a tail-dragger (I DO NOT have a TW endorsement, yet) but only because we have an interest in flying into some mild backcountry strips (Schaefer, Meadow Creek, etc) and camping/hiking/fishing from there

  • I've reached out to the EAA Headwaters chapter in Three Folks but the material on their website is pretty minimal and could be out of date

If I don't generate a ton of responses here, I'll also reach out to each of the folks I've seen that seem like they're Bozeman (or near Bozeman; guy in Townsend, I'm looking at you!)

Happy Sunday and happy flying!

Steven
Click to expand...

Pretty hard to come by RV-9s (tail dragger), and you may well find that a low-time PP without TW endorsement ends up with a rather breathtaking discussion with their insurance broker.

RV-9A is a great airplane. Like you, when looking to make my initial foray into E-AB, I was indifferent to aerobatics but would have bought either an RV-7A or RV-9A. Had zero interest in tailwheel, could think of no advantage. I found a very nice -9A first. Absolutely no regrets. It's a fantastic airplane. Make sure you find the right one, but get a good pre-buy evaluation from someone who is expert in RV's.

Strongly consider getting Vic Syracuse's book. https://baselegaviation.com/

Congratulations on your impending nuptials.
 
9A - a perfect decision for me

I was almost the same as Mac. I had zero interest in aerobatics or tail dragger. Everyone has their own wants. I wanted a new airplane I could use to travel in and I could maintain.

I bought the fuselage in QB stage and it was set up to be a tail dragger. I removed the engine mount and gear - sold them for more than I paid for the nose wheel stuff and got what I wanted. I left the stinger mount in because it required more work than I wanted to do and it it fun to stick the tail wheel on just to get reactions. It does give me a great place for a tie down ring!

Now I have about 160 hours on my 9A and a total of about 300 hours. I was instructed in my plane and did my check ride in it too. I love it!

9 or 9A - either is a great choice depending on your desires. I understand the 7 because of the different wing may not feel the bumps as much but for a low time pilot, the handling of the 9A is perfect for me.
 
Vlad is who you need to talk to.

https://vansairforce.net/community/member.php?u=9007
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll stalk him for a bit here then will reach out shortly.

Welcome to the madness.
Just to be sure you’re rational in your expectations, I’d suggest calling an insurance broker, and have a chat. The call is free. I use Leah at the Gallagher Agency (look for their ad here on VAF (it may still have their old name, ‘Nationair’)). There are others, too. Your first year quote will be high, no matter what. For a tailwheel it will be even higher. They’ll probably require some (10hr?) dual TW time beyond the TW endorsement.
You didn’t mention any instrument rating. Usually the insurance companies will give you a small discount for that. But of course an ifr equipped plane is going to cost more than a basic vfr one. Lots of decisions!
Click to expand...

I'm nothing if not a rational thinker. Being a statistician really drives that home! Thanks for the recommendation or an insurance agency. I use Northstar Aviation for a non-owned policy; when I've talked to them about how to get quotes for different makes/models of aircraft, their response has just been "we can't give you a quote until you have an N number for us."

I would expect a high premium for low-time, fresh TW endorsement (not received yet but a few places nearby I could get one) and more dual is never a bad thing in my opinion.

RV-9A is a great airplane. Like you, when looking to make my initial foray into E-AB, I was indifferent to aerobatics but would have bought either an RV-7A or RV-9A. Had zero interest in tailwheel, could think of no advantage. I found a very nice -9A first. Absolutely no regrets. It's a fantastic airplane. Make sure you find the right one, but get a good pre-buy evaluation from someone who is expert in RV's.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. Nice to know you were comparing 7As and 9As when you went shopping. Although I am far away from making any final decision, it certainly seems that from what I've read here, to broadly generalize, the 9 wing is bigger and flies a bit slower (good for landing in grass strips and having more glide time in case of engine failure at altitude). That's my biggest reason for leaning 9 (or 9A).

As far as tailwheel or not, the idea of protecting the prop on grass strips (NOT river bottoms or anything similar) would be the reason I'd consider a TW. Then again, I have landed on many grass/rougher strips in a C172 without issue. Just hold the nose off and have good short and soft field techniques.

Strongly consider getting Vic Syracuse's book. https://baselegaviation.com/

Congratulations on your impending nuptials.
Click to expand...

You're referring to the Maintenance Handbook? I'll order it today.

And thanks! We're excited. We're having small wedding at a local nearby ski hill.


I bought the fuselage in QB stage and it was set up to be a tail dragger. I removed the engine mount and gear - sold them for more than I paid for the nose wheel stuff and got what I wanted. I left the stinger mount in because it required more work than I wanted to do and it it fun to stick the tail wheel on just to get reactions. It does give me a great place for a tie down ring!
Click to expand...

Fiance and I have talked about building something. I keep reading the "do you want to build or do you want to fly?" comments here and I'm in a position to stay a member of a local club to fly while I build. She'd be on board with building in the garage, too, recognizing that we'd have to park in the driveway for a while... Although building vs buying a flying example is still a final decision to make, I lean towards buying, simply because holy smokes that's a lot of time. Although quick builds do seem to shave a lot of that time off, still, wow. An investment. But having exactly what you want and knowing how it all went together would be a lovely.

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone. Although I tend to observe and consume information more than I participate and contribute, I'll definitely be around, reading, picking up information, and storing for future use and will make a contribution to the site in short order.
 
As some have mentioned, a RV-9 is a bit of a rare bird.
There are maybe only about 40-60 that I know of in existence.
However a perfect plane for many.
I wanted the look and the flight characteristics of the tail wheel and the stable platform for IFR.
I have been greatly enjoying both.

Finding any RV-7 or RV-9 to sit in will give you the same feel. It is the same fuselage. Keeping it a tailwheel plane will give you the look out the screen while on the ground but the A model will be the same fit.
 
allPrimes said:
Thanks for this. Nice to know you were comparing 7As and 9As when you went shopping. Although I am far away from making any final decision, it certainly seems that from what I've read here, to broadly generalize, the 9 wing is bigger and flies a bit slower (good for landing in grass strips and having more glide time in case of engine failure at altitude). That's my biggest reason for leaning 9 (or 9A).

As far as tailwheel or not, the idea of protecting the prop on grass strips (NOT river bottoms or anything similar) would be the reason I'd consider a TW. Then again, I have landed on many grass/rougher strips in a C172 without issue. Just hold the nose off and have good short and soft field techniques.



You're referring to the Maintenance Handbook? I'll order it today.

And thanks! We're excited. We're having small wedding at a local nearby ski hill.




Fiance and I have talked about building something. I keep reading the "do you want to build or do you want to fly?" comments here and I'm in a position to stay a member of a local club to fly while I build. She'd be on board with building in the garage, too, recognizing that we'd have to park in the driveway for a while... Although building vs buying a flying example is still a final decision to make, I lean towards buying, simply because holy smokes that's a lot of time. Although quick builds do seem to shave a lot of that time off, still, wow. An investment. But having exactly what you want and knowing how it all went together would be a lovely.

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone. Although I tend to observe and consume information more than I participate and contribute, I'll definitely be around, reading, picking up information, and storing for future use and will make a contribution to the site in short order.
Click to expand...

Legend has it that the -9/A get tossed around more in bumpy air due to its lower wing loading and that the -7/A is twitchy in its handling. I think both opinions are vast overstatements. I do think you are correct that the -9/A allows nice, slow, and controllable landings. It is a very predictable airplane, but certainly not tame or boring. That said, I'm confident that I would have enjoyed a -7/A every bit as much had that been the first suitable plane I found instead of the -9/A. In the shopping process...I cannot emphasize strongly enough the advantage to having a "guru" to assist you in the shopping and buying process. Likewise, a knowledgeable RV expert in doing the pre-buy inspection. You're buying an airplane that somebody built in their garage. You definitely want evidence that that person knew what he/she was doing.

Any of Vic's three books are good. There is some overlap between them...maybe best described halfway down on this page. You won't be able to do your own annual Condition Inspections, but you would be able to do your own maintenance (within the limits of your experience, knowledge, and good sense). Personally, although I putter around with some maintenance tasks, the vast majority, especially firewall forward (even oil changes) I leave to my A&P. But the books are valuable even for me, as is the flash drive of all of the construction drawings that is available from Van's.

Building is a personal decision and I'm sure has it's rewards, but to me it appears to be 3-5 years of daily problem-solving, and takes time and money away from the part about airplanes that I enjoy....flying them. I wouldn't be able to afford the time, space, and money to fly and build at the same time. My opinion only.
 
MacCool said:
In the shopping process...I cannot emphasize strongly enough the advantage to having a "guru" to assist you in the shopping and buying process. Likewise, a knowledgeable RV expert in doing the pre-buy inspection. You're buying an airplane that somebody built in their garage. You definitely want evidence that that person knew what he/she was doing.
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Without a doubt. That's why I'm starting now, trying to build some connections here, so that when I do start seriously shopping (instead of just doing research), I have some connections on which I can (hopefully!) rely.
 
I think it is a great choice for your mission. Although 9's are rare not unheard of, and I am building one for similar reasons as you.

Lot's of discussion of TW vs NW, but you already know that. The real advantage of a TW is it keeps the prop out of stuff better, particularly taxiing; and when you start your taxi, the thrust line is actually pulling the tires out of the soft field rather than pushing the nose wheel into it.

The advantage of the NW is you can be crooked when you touch down on the runway and the main/cg configuration will pull you straight (be more forgiving to error) rather than turn you around.

You just gotta make good landings; whether it is to be straight when you touch down, or to make sure you are actually slow enough to keep the nose wheel off the ground.

Good luck on your journey!

Tim
 
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allPrimes said:
As far as tailwheel or not, the idea of protecting the prop on grass strips (NOT river bottoms or anything similar) would be the reason I'd consider a TW. Then again, I have landed on many grass/rougher strips in a C172 without issue. Just hold the nose off and have good short and soft field techniques.


Fiance and I have talked about building something. I keep reading the "do you want to build or do you want to fly?" comments here and I'm in a position to stay a member of a local club to fly while I build. She'd be on board with building….
Click to expand...

The 9 (and really, all stock RVs) has a relatively small diameter nose wheel. Way before a field is rough enough to worry about a prop strike, you need to be concerned about dropping the nose into a pot hole and bending the nose gear 90 deg back (the prop strike immediately follows). The solution is exactly as you stated: never let the nose touch until the stick is full aft and you cannot hold the nose off any longer. Same thing in reverse for takeoffs.

The decision to build vs buy is highly personal. You have to ask, will I enjoy this? (Vans sells the tail kit relatively inexpensively, so you can try it out and, if you don’t like the work, you can sell out without losing too much money). Never build just to get the airplane. It will turn to drudgery, you’ll work less and less, until you give up. Personally, I loved the experience (“When you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life”). But I also waited until retirement, knowing the time commitment. I’d say it’s a “must” that your fiancee is on-board with the time commitment.
 
BobTurner said:
Never build just to get the airplane. It will turn to drudgery, you’ll work less and less, until you give up. Personally, I loved the experience (“When you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life”). But I also waited until retirement, knowing the time commitment. I’d say it’s a “must” that your fiancee is on-board with the time commitment.
Click to expand...

I appreciate reading this. I think it could be fun but I like flying more. I've read more than a few accounts of people in my shoes (in a club, so think they can fly while they build then not flying because they're building). Although the fiance says she's on board with the time commitment and with helping me in the garage, I think our likely first EAB will be a prebuilt that, if necessary, we upgrade as we have a need (if it doesn't check all of our boxes right off the bat).

I suspect that I'll wait until I have plenty of self-directed free time (i.e., retirement or lottery win (latter unlikely)) to build a kit.
 
After building for nearly 10 years, I understand about buying and not building. I enjoyed the build and it was very rewarding but flying is fun!
 
Steven, Townsend guy here…. Well was Townsend, now Marion, (97MT). Sent a response to your email.

I was you in 2006, except most likely older I was 45. I had a lot of mechanical experience, also helped build a Rans S6. I experienced builder and pilot told me, “Build what you want” He also said “if you can’t learn to fly and land a tailwheel RV properly, you won’t be able to fly and land a tricycle RV properly either”

So I built my -7. After flying a few years burning 8-9gph at 178ktas cruise, others were burning 7 (160kts?)running lean of peak…made me think. I asked an old timer Bonanza guy…. Do you run lean to save fuel? His response has stuck with me…. “I didn’t buy a fast plane to fly it slow.” Bingo.

Life is good in both planes, but for me it’s better at 200mph.
 
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