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My first post here, though I've been a consumer of VAF for some time. My thanks to all who've shared their wisdom.
I'm a 400+ hour private pilot, about 50 hours in tailwheel, mostly Cubs. Currently own a Cherokee 160 I'm using through Instrument and Commercial. I also hold seaplane and glider ratings. I won't attempt to fly any Vans without transition training first.
I've got it in my head that I need an RV-4. I've flown a 7 and loved it, but the 4 fits my mission and budget much better. An 8 would be great, but I can think of better uses for that extra $100k right now. I recently got a hangar at my airport after years of waiting, and now I need to fill it. The time seems right, current market aside. I've been watching the classifieds, Barnstormers and Trade-a-Plane for the last few months. I was quick on the draw to email the owner of a 180HP RV-4 in PA a few weeks ago the second his ad went live, and we've scheduled time for me to fly up tomorrow morning and take a look.
Panel is nothing special. APpears to be basic engine and IFR instruments with a D10a, maybe an autopilot.
Asking price is $75k which, to me, looks like a $45k airplane plus a $30k engine. I have no idea if this is a fair price or not. I don't think I want to pay $75k for an airplane which will almost certainly depreciate as I put time on it. The only other 4's I've seen come up for sale the last six months either sell quick with high time engines priced around $45k, or sit unsold for months with engines at or past TBO for $67k. Two years ago a mid-time 4 would set you back a buck and you'd have change leftover. Strange times are these.
A few things stand out to me:
1992 build with about 500hrs on the airframe. Engine is a brand new YO-360 with metal prop, 5hrs total time on it. The non-rated owner states he hit a taxiway light on his 2nd lesson in the aircraft and 'talked the insurance company into a new engine.' I've never heard of this before. How likely is it there's more to the story? He says he's got all logs since new, and receipts/emails from the engine replacement. What other questions should I be asking? Should I view this as 'damage history' and just stay home tomorrow?
I'm not sure how long it's been sitting. A disciple of Mike Busch, I know what can happen to an engine left unflown for long periods of time. Any tell-tale signs I can look for without a borescope?
It's heavy. Having familiarized myself with w&b issues of o-360'd RV-4s, I asked to see the weight and balance. He sent the last w&b from 2006 which has empty weight at 1,062/68.32, and max gross at 1500. Seems about 100lbs overweight to me and, if I'm reading this correctly, CG near the fwd limit if flown single pilot. With two 170lb people on board, there's enough weight left over for...8 gallons of avgas. Not ideal. I hope I'm reading these numbers wrong. How much of the fwd and empty weight would be mitigated by a Catto prop and eventual panel overhaul?
Below are things I'd like to inquire about tomorrow during the look-around:
This will be the first 4 I've looked at/sat in. I might hate it. I might love it. I want to avoid being impulsive, and if I do decide to make an offer, I want it to be fair to both myself and the seller. Would $60-65 be a fair offer, given what I've noted above? Or is $75k a screaming deal and I should bring cash?
Thanks for reading. I welcome any thoughts you might have.
I'm a 400+ hour private pilot, about 50 hours in tailwheel, mostly Cubs. Currently own a Cherokee 160 I'm using through Instrument and Commercial. I also hold seaplane and glider ratings. I won't attempt to fly any Vans without transition training first.
I've got it in my head that I need an RV-4. I've flown a 7 and loved it, but the 4 fits my mission and budget much better. An 8 would be great, but I can think of better uses for that extra $100k right now. I recently got a hangar at my airport after years of waiting, and now I need to fill it. The time seems right, current market aside. I've been watching the classifieds, Barnstormers and Trade-a-Plane for the last few months. I was quick on the draw to email the owner of a 180HP RV-4 in PA a few weeks ago the second his ad went live, and we've scheduled time for me to fly up tomorrow morning and take a look.
Panel is nothing special. APpears to be basic engine and IFR instruments with a D10a, maybe an autopilot.
Asking price is $75k which, to me, looks like a $45k airplane plus a $30k engine. I have no idea if this is a fair price or not. I don't think I want to pay $75k for an airplane which will almost certainly depreciate as I put time on it. The only other 4's I've seen come up for sale the last six months either sell quick with high time engines priced around $45k, or sit unsold for months with engines at or past TBO for $67k. Two years ago a mid-time 4 would set you back a buck and you'd have change leftover. Strange times are these.
A few things stand out to me:
1992 build with about 500hrs on the airframe. Engine is a brand new YO-360 with metal prop, 5hrs total time on it. The non-rated owner states he hit a taxiway light on his 2nd lesson in the aircraft and 'talked the insurance company into a new engine.' I've never heard of this before. How likely is it there's more to the story? He says he's got all logs since new, and receipts/emails from the engine replacement. What other questions should I be asking? Should I view this as 'damage history' and just stay home tomorrow?
I'm not sure how long it's been sitting. A disciple of Mike Busch, I know what can happen to an engine left unflown for long periods of time. Any tell-tale signs I can look for without a borescope?
It's heavy. Having familiarized myself with w&b issues of o-360'd RV-4s, I asked to see the weight and balance. He sent the last w&b from 2006 which has empty weight at 1,062/68.32, and max gross at 1500. Seems about 100lbs overweight to me and, if I'm reading this correctly, CG near the fwd limit if flown single pilot. With two 170lb people on board, there's enough weight left over for...8 gallons of avgas. Not ideal. I hope I'm reading these numbers wrong. How much of the fwd and empty weight would be mitigated by a Catto prop and eventual panel overhaul?
Below are things I'd like to inquire about tomorrow during the look-around:
- Fuel tank condition - sloshed?
- AD and SB compliance
- adsb? The last ground track on flight aware appears to be the ferry flight from when he bought it in 2019. I'm based inside the DC 30nm ADS-B veil, so ADS-B is required.
- lightweight starter?
- details of prop-strike and any other damage history
- cracked rudder skins
- check for cracks on lower engine mounts/weldments. Can this be seen with the cowl on?
- long or short gear
- angle valve or parallel valve
This will be the first 4 I've looked at/sat in. I might hate it. I might love it. I want to avoid being impulsive, and if I do decide to make an offer, I want it to be fair to both myself and the seller. Would $60-65 be a fair offer, given what I've noted above? Or is $75k a screaming deal and I should bring cash?
Thanks for reading. I welcome any thoughts you might have.
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