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learning to fly an RV-4 Advice

N

NZdave

I'm New Here
This is my idea...

I am a fabrication engineer and son of an aircraft engineer, so i have been around aircraft my whole life and would like to buy and build an RV4.

The New Zealand dollar is really good at the moment and i think now is the time to buy a new RV4 kit from Vans.

I do not have a pilots license so this is just something else i have to do. all the training cost and exams run to about $12,000 NZ Dollar for a PPL. So... the big question is would it be a stupid idea to build the RV4 with full controls in the rear, and have an instructor teach me in that to avoid the $200 hr running cost for a cessna 152, is this jumping in the deep end?

any advice on buying/building the RV and the training would be gratefully received.

Thank you David
 
Welcome Dave...

You've found the best RV website known and therefore, be prepared for all sorts of opinions:)

There are also quite a few engineers of all sorts on here but to answer your question, yes, you can do all your training in an RV-4. Since both you and your dad are engineers, you should be able to figure out how to build rear seat brakes into the -4, because to my knowledge, it hasn't been done.

As a CFI myself, I wouldn't think of giving dual in a -4 without rear seat brakes and Van doesn't offer that option, so you'll be on your own.

Secondly, you'll need the basic instruments in the rear...airspeed and altimeter for starters and the associated plumbing.

Finding an instructor willling to fly a -4 from the rear could be problematic....and you'd be wise to look for one first.

Best,
 
Better idea!

With the exchange rate, buy a flying side by side and learn to fly in that. Later sell it for your own RV.

The RV-4 is not a good trainer and few instructors would teach you in it. The Nigerian AF used over 60 RV-6As as trainers.
 
Welcome, Dave...

I didn't want the basic premise of your question to be lost. Having a plane 'first' and then learning off it has many benefits. It's jumping off the deep end to choose a plane before having much flying experience, but perhaps you've had a fair bit of right-seat time in a mix of aircraft, including the RV4 you want to build? Because our family bought a Grumman right after I finished my PPL, it made 'family training' much more affordable - and far more fun than if we'd each continued to be squished into that 152. My wife and son got their PPL's in the 'family caravan' and I got my IR in it, which meant all the family flying that followed was in the a/c we each already knew pretty intimately. (The downside was trying to figure out who had to be stuck in the back seat...:D )

But as you can already see, the devil's in the details and I think the point Pierre made about finding an instructor is especially important. Not all instructors are equal, and their principle contribution can be to introduce you not just to flying one a/c but to the world of aviation. Nor are all instructors gifted teachers. After buying our Grumman, I found that most CFII instructors were convinced it was not a suitable IFR training platform. Fortunately, I knew a very experienced CFII who loved to fly the plane due to its responsiveness (at least when compared to Part 23 a/c) and my IFR training was a wonderful experience because of his depth of knowledge about aviation, not just dials & turns.

Good luck on your adventure. Flying is so fretfully expensive down there (and next door to you, as well) that it truly is a significant commitment to fly, let alone own an airplane. But of course the rewards are indescribable.

Jack
 
Hi David, wherabouts in NZ are you?
There are 2 RV4s for sale here at the moment that I'm aware of if you'd prefer to buy rather than build.
Craig
 
I am in dunedin.

I think i would rather build my own as we think we might be able to make it cheaper with my fathers contacts for aircraft parts etc. plus i would like the project and think it would be a great sense of satisfaction to build it yourself. But i have been wrong before. i though this might be the case that this is not the best plane to learn in however, if it could be done i think i would rather do that then spend $200 an hr. at the end of the day safety has to come first i might have to bite the bullet on this one.

any advice on how i can do the license and build cheaper would be fantastic. no i havent had a lot of time in a plane just something i have always wanted to do since being a kid.

thank you
 
If you can find a local gliding club, you might find that that's a cheaper way to get stick and rudder skills.

I learned to fly in gliders at about $25 per hour. When I started training for my PPL ten years later, I already knew how to handle the aircraft, and most of my time was spent on ded-reckoning navigation, fuel management, and controlled airspace procedures. Turned it from a $15k exercise into a $6k exercise.
 
rv-4

Get some time in a Cessna 140. That will teach you to land the RV-4. Both A/C have relatively "springy" gear. When you get the feel for the 140 in landing, you'll have everything you need to land the RV-4.
RV's a VERY easy to fly aircraft. It will spoil you for almost every other airplane... ;-)

Dm
Just do it...
 
Dmadd said:
Get some time in a Cessna 140. That will teach you to land the RV-4. Both A/C have relatively "springy" gear. When you get the feel for the 140 in landing, you'll have everything you need to land the RV-4.
RV's a VERY easy to fly aircraft. It will spoil you for almost every other airplane... ;-)

Dm
Just do it...
Click to expand...

I think Mike Seger (Vans factory transition pilot) pretty much nailed it when he told me "The RV is easy to fly but difficult to fly precisely".

A novice pilot can find ample ways to hurt himself in an RV, things can happen very quickly. A novice pilot finds precise airmanship to be a challenging endeavor. As the airman gains more experience in an RV (a few hundred hours) precise airmanship becomes second nature.
 
I know the feeling, I've only got 120 hours and sold my citabria for an rv 4 thinking I could figure it out myself, considering 90% is tail wheel time. Huge misconception, flying high wings planes and going to low wings was difficult to judge the flair, also trying to get it slowed down(fixed pitch) was interesting as well. I flew with a friend in his rv 8 and he did my transition trainging to the four with me, it is a wonderful airplane to fly, but it will bite you if you get lazy. Ps just put a new Catto 3 blade on it...... One word AWESOME
 
Hi David,

FWIW, the -4 I now own was built by a guy (not me) who learned to fly in it after he built it. It has rudder pedals in back, but nothing else except the stick. His friend/instructor made him get comfortable landing from the back with only rudder & stick, then they traded places for the rest of his training.

So, it can be done. However, while I'm currently flying the 2nd -4 that I've bought already flying, I'd advise spending some time sitting in one and also, evaluate who your passengers will be. The -4 is pretty tight inside, & won't carry that much if you stay within Van's numbers. Run the numbers on who you can put in the back seat with full fuel (or even minimum fuel) and ask yourself if you intend to travel with luggage and a passenger. I suspect that you'll find that with luggage, the most you can carry in back is 150-160 lbs while staying within cg & gw.

The -4 really does fly nice, but the newer models are much more 'practical' (if you can say that about any a/c...).

Charlie
 
Just finished my tailwheel and transition endorsement yesterday in my Rv-4. It took 4.5 hrs. My instructor put me in the back where I learnt to ground handle fly and land with speed and attitude alone With a glimpse now and then of the asi. Did this for approx 3 hrs then went to front seat and got used to braking ect . Did 2.5 hrs then let loose by myself . Did 4 circuits nervously it was like first solo all over again. It is harder to learn from backseat but is a good experience .
 
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