People that think you can constantly brush issues under the rug will find out someday. Personally I would like issues addressed before they put the company in peril.Vans had a chance at OSH 2023 to inform us what happened with the LCP initiative. Instead, they blamed it on the supplier failing to follow the prescribed pretzel cutting guidelines. I was there and we all were wondering, feedback was being supplied for over 9 months that there was an issue, and nobody bothered to go to the supplier for over 9 moths and visually see how they were cutting the parts? Most companies would welcome early feedback that VAF supplies. In my previous life I spent a lot, of money getting customers to provide said feedback. This is not about worthless complaining but is being done to help Vans Aircraft get through this difficult period and address issues. Hopefully they will do this.
Solutions typically don’t.Never ends
That perspective is refreshing and absolutely correct. This is what Engineers live with every day. Peer reviewI don’t understand - where’s the stress?
Curious… Why is it not okay to ask questions and discuss this stuff? If someone doesn’t have an interest, they could just skip the thread - there’s no need to be snide or snarky. Our GA lifestyle is slowly dying and has been for decades. Needling each other, as I often see on here, just makes it worse.
Said differently, I am building an airplane in large part for the sake of challenging myself to learn new things (the same reason I’ve started chasing an ATP certificate at 52…). I appreciated Steve’s explanation about the tempering of aluminum. I had no idea it was done by freezing or that there might be a local place that does it. I don’t need to anneal or temper anything, but now I have more insight around how it might be done, and where, from someone who has actually done it and knows why. (It still weirds me out that it is done with low temps… I feel a remedial chemistry lesson coming on…)
I am an engineer and a pilot. I am not offended in the least when someone questions or challenges my work (best stay away from my flying, though! [joking] ). I see inquiry as an opportunity for learning, very possibly at both ends of the conversation.
Is education and learning not the foundation of homebuilding?
I would agree with your last paragraph, however, when people believe that that ARE a subject matter expert in all processes, I think they need to be transparent about what makes them so.That perspective is refreshing and absolutely correct. This is what Engineers live with every day. Per review.
The heat treating process of heat the parts up, quench in water, hold on ice, straighten cold work etc… and naturally age has been around for 60 years or so.
It’s literally done every day. And it is an inexpensive solution with huge benefits.
I mostly ignore the comments that attack a person. Attacking an idea with a better idea, is how aircraft have gone from the first powered flight to today.
If the Wright Brothers hadn’t attacked ideas, we wouldn’t be here.
As for trusting an engineer…trust but verify never hurts and frankly no one can be a subject matter expert on all processes. So when a good idea is presented, smart engineers remain open to improvements.
Steve
Yes, GA has been in decline for decades, but - and thankfully - the decline started flattening out a bit in/around 2016 with a resurgence in pilot numbers. Yes, Van’s has sold lots of kits & more than 11,000 of them are flying - that is certainly a very good thing. But it isn’t reflective of the bigger picture. The cost of aviation is continuing to rise, and ownership continues to be less and less viable for many in both the certificated and experimental markets. Parts availability for the certificated world is also becoming more and more of an issue for parts of the GA fleet as it ages, and the dubious future of 100LL is a concern." If someone doesn’t have an interest, they could just skip the thread - there’s no need to be snide or snarky. Our GA lifestyle is slowly dying and has been for decades. Needling each other, as I often see on here, just makes it worse."
Dying? Is this is why Vans has sold 15,000+ kits over the past years? Not mentioning the other kit manufacturers that have grown? As for skipping threads, the same can be said for droning on and on about what Van's should have done, or what they want Vans to do, or lessons in metallurgy. There's always golf.
As for questioning engineers, since we're comparing, I am an engineer, was chief engineer after being a chief of test for several aircraft programs at a major aircraft manufacturer along with Program Manager, and if I want a lesson in metallurgy, I can open a book. I love this site for information about building and different ways of doing things. Also for learning about issues - such as LCP's and the forming of the ribs.
That's one approach. Another would be to start their own company designing and selling kits - the market can always use more competition.If the perceived SMEs wanted to help, maybe they ought to present their ideas to vans. I am reasonably certain that they would be interested in improving their product/business/manufacturing.
That's one approach. Another would be to start their own company designing and selling kits - the market can always use more competition.
Not being snarky by any means - I'm being serious - if someone has a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door.