Laser Cut Parts RV-10 Quickbuild not replacing full assemblies

[abaden]

I just received access to the portal for my RV-10 quickbuild wing kit. My wings arrived before LCP production but the flaps and ailerons were built later and “might be” affected. Van’s is offering to replace the red listed parts - flap spar, aileron spar, nose rib, etc. These parts are red and listed as “recommended for replacement”. They are also difficult if not impossible to inspect. Van’s is not offering to replace the entire assembly, even if it’s only providing parts for me to assemble.

So - I am not sure what to do. It does appear that I could remove and replace the aileron spar and nose rib but there is no technical guidance for this procedure posted. And the main ribs look more difficult with trailing edge involvement. Also, I remember hearing from the EAA sheet metal class that drilling out rivets can be more damaging than a poorly set one. So, that is somewhat concerning. And if I damage the skin, that will be a very expensive repair.

What are other people’s thoughts? Is anyone else in this situation? I am surprised Van’s is not offering to replace the rest of the aileron parts - I realize that the cost is high, but they’re recommending this part be replaced and I am not comfortable going against that recommendation even if it is out of an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Alex

 

[Ghartt]

I just got my portal access as well. My QB wings were appear to be full of recommended to replace parts, including all of the ribs. So not only are we out of the money for QB, but it is now slower than slow build by the time you disassemble and replace everything.

It would of been a much more honorable offer if Van's was to say, send us the QB wings back and we will get you a new set. Hell, I'd even pay for shipping at this point.

 

[apicreator]

Same situation here, but on RV7 wings. Without clear instructions, I am not sure how we can replace those. I have flaps, aileron and INBD WING RIB. Is it even possible to replace INBD WING RIB (left and right) without damaging the skin?

 

[djohns]

This is surprising. The spreadsheet I got shows free replacement on all parts if damaged during disassembly for both the Ailerons and Flaps.
I have slow build RV14.

 

[jemer]

I received an email from Greg on Sep 26 that my QB Fuselage contained no LCPs. An additional email said QB wings contained no LCPs with the caveat for the Flaps/Ailerons. The email I just received had a list of LCP parts against my Fuselage and the Flaps/Ailerons. Same concerns as stated above with replacing the LCPs in Flaps/Alerons. I will hold my thoughts for now on the conflicting emails first stating Fuselage has no LCPs and now here are the parts in your fuselage that may be LCPs.

Fuselage was green tagged by Exemplar 11 Jan 2022 and the wings 26 April 2022. I would have expected a higher probability of LCPs in the wings than the fuselage based on the date but I don't really know what to expect any more.

 

[1949MGTC]

My RV-14A has the same issue with QB flaps and ailerons being full of "red" parts. Luckily the wing only has one "red" part, worst case scenario. I've been flying six months so I my plan is to replace the flaps and ailerons with complete, new assemblies. I've sent a note to Van's asking them how we're going to go about doing that. More to come...

 

[Pskluz]

Just tried to speak with them on the phone. Not surprisingly, no answer to my questions, just “email them”. I am in the same boat. I was told there were no laser cut parts in my QB fuselage and on closer examination, I believe that to still be true even though today’s email stated differently. On the other hand, yes my wings, flaps and ailerons do. We were told that we would be given all of the parts to complete a new set of flaps and ailerons. That is not what the email or portal allows. One more slap in the face! Unbelievable

 

[2theskyy]

I received an email from Greg on Sep 26 that my QB Fuselage contained no LCPs. An additional email said QB wings contained no LCPs with the caveat for the Flaps/Ailerons. The email I just received had a list of LCP parts against my Fuselage and the Flaps/Ailerons. Same concerns as stated above with replacing the LCPs in Flaps/Alerons. I will hold my thoughts for now on the conflicting emails first stating Fuselage has no LCPs and now here are the parts in your fuselage that may be LCPs.

Fuselage was green tagged by Exemplar 11 Jan 2022 and the wings 26 April 2022. I would have expected a higher probability of LCPs in the wings than the fuselage based on the date but I don't really know what to expect any more.

I just received my lcp email. I know for a fact some of the kit specific parts(red & yellow) are not in my kit. My kit was not assembled when they started putting out lists. I made my own list and I paid for and replaced lcp already(on my own dime). I wouldn’t take their list in this last email as fact. Just a timeframe your kit was sent out that the lcp could be in.

 

[msmst25]

The link in the email lists the following statement:

• For kits assembled as quickbuild kits or to the quickbuild stage, or beyond, Van’s is evaluating and will be providing alternate means of repair where disassembly is impractical or overly burdensome.

I'm not sure exactly how to interpret this. I don't have my plans with me, so I can't even tell exactly which parts are involved. My QB wings are almost complete, just need to rivet on the bottom skin on one. At this point I can't tell if I need to disassemble the wings themselves, or if the only parts are affected are the ailerons and flaps.

 

[Clangenf]

I just received access to the portal for my RV-10 quickbuild wing kit. My wings arrived before LCP production but the flaps and ailerons were built later and “might be” affected. Van’s is offering to replace the red listed parts - flap spar, aileron spar, nose rib, etc. These parts are red and listed as “recommended for replacement”. They are also difficult if not impossible to inspect. Van’s is not offering to replace the entire assembly, even if it’s only providing parts for me to assemble.

So - I am not sure what to do. It does appear that I could remove and replace the aileron spar and nose rib but there is no technical guidance for this procedure posted. And the main ribs look more difficult with trailing edge involvement. Also, I remember hearing from the EAA sheet metal class that drilling out rivets can be more damaging than a poorly set one. So, that is somewhat concerning. And if I damage the skin, that will be a very expensive repair.

What are other people’s thoughts? Is anyone else in this situation? I am surprised Van’s is not offering to replace the rest of the aileron parts - I realize that the cost is high, but they’re recommending this part be replaced and I am not comfortable going against that recommendation even if it is out of an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Alex

Hello -
I am in the same boat. QB wings. Delivered to me on July 5th 2023. Lots of laser cut parts.
At one point Vans had said they would offer to provide ALL of the parts to build Ailerons and Flaps OR offer the opportunity to purchase replacement assemblies at a discounted cost. I am trying to find the video where they said that -- does anyone have anything that indicates that they would do this? If you do, and you can share, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Chris Langenfeld

 

[Clangenf]

I just received access to the portal for my RV-10 quickbuild wing kit. My wings arrived before LCP production but the flaps and ailerons were built later and “might be” affected. Van’s is offering to replace the red listed parts - flap spar, aileron spar, nose rib, etc. These parts are red and listed as “recommended for replacement”. They are also difficult if not impossible to inspect. Van’s is not offering to replace the entire assembly, even if it’s only providing parts for me to assemble.

So - I am not sure what to do. It does appear that I could remove and replace the aileron spar and nose rib but there is no technical guidance for this procedure posted. And the main ribs look more difficult with trailing edge involvement. Also, I remember hearing from the EAA sheet metal class that drilling out rivets can be more damaging than a poorly set one. So, that is somewhat concerning. And if I damage the skin, that will be a very expensive repair.

What are other people’s thoughts? Is anyone else in this situation? I am surprised Van’s is not offering to replace the rest of the aileron parts - I realize that the cost is high, but they’re recommending this part be replaced and I am not comfortable going against that recommendation even if it is out of an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Alex

Hello -
I am in the same boat. QB wings. Delivered to me on July 5th 2023. Lots of laser cut parts.
At one point Vans had said they would offer to provide ALL of the parts to build Ailerons and Flaps OR offer the opportunity to purchase replacement assemblies at a discounted cost. I am trying to find the video where they said that -- does anyone have anything that indicates that they would do this? If you do, and you can share, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Chris Langenfeld

 

[Pskluz]

Hello -
I am in the same boat. QB wings. Delivered to me on July 5th 2023. Lots of laser cut parts.
At one point Vans had said they would offer to provide ALL of the parts to build Ailerons and Flaps OR offer the opportunity to purchase replacement assemblies at a discounted cost. I am trying to find the video where they said that -- does anyone have anything that indicates that they would do this? If you do, and you can share, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Chris Langenfeld

Email from January 7th entitled “Introduction to Van's Laser Cut Parts Replacement Program”
“For example, RV-10/-14 aileron skins, skin stiffeners, and the trailing edge wedge are highly likely to be damaged in disassembly and reassembly. Customers who have already assembled these components will be provided skins, skin stiffeners, trailing edge wedge, and rivets at no charge.”

”Many Quick Build customers received pre-assembled flaps and ailerons, which may contain red and yellow laser-cut parts. Van’s will be providing all potentially affected customers the components necessary to build new flaps and ailerons from parts. We are currently evaluating an option to supply assembled flaps and ailerons for a fee. However, due to the substantial production demands we are facing there will likely be a long lead time associated with offering fully-assembled flaps and ailerons“.
Now, the only option the portal offers is the red and yellow parts for free and the green and blue parts at a discount. The remainder of the flaps and aileron parts are not even listed! Either this is a massive oversight on their part or once again they are failing to deal, in good faith, with their customers that affected and to live up to the promises they made.

 

[Scout48]

Email from January 7th entitled “Introduction to Van's Laser Cut Parts Replacement Program”
“For example, RV-10/-14 aileron skins, skin stiffeners, and the trailing edge wedge are highly likely to be damaged in disassembly and reassembly. Customers who have already assembled these components will be provided skins, skin stiffeners, trailing edge wedge, and rivets at no charge.”

”Many Quick Build customers received pre-assembled flaps and ailerons, which may contain red and yellow laser-cut parts. Van’s will be providing all potentially affected customers the components necessary to build new flaps and ailerons from parts. We are currently evaluating an option to supply assembled flaps and ailerons for a fee. However, due to the substantial production demands we are facing there will likely be a long lead time associated with offering fully-assembled flaps and ailerons“.
Now, the only option the portal offers is the red and yellow parts for free and the green and blue parts at a discount. The remainder of the flaps and aileron parts are not even listed! Either this is a massive oversight on their part or once again they are failing to deal, in good faith, with their customers that affected and to live up to the promises they made.

My email included a pdf file with a list of all red, blue, green and yellow parts for my kit. The email said that red and yellow parts would be paid for by Van's. The portal itself only had choices for red blue and green parts. However, if you select that the kit has been either partially or fully assembled, it asks for a picture of the assembled structures to become eligible for the parts listed as yellow.

Were there no yellow parts for your kits shown in the pdf attachment?

 

[Pskluz]

My email included a pdf file with a list of all red, blue, green and yellow parts for my kit. The email said that red and yellow parts would be paid for by Van's. The portal itself only had choices for red blue and green parts. However, if you select that the kit has been either partially or fully assembled, it asks for a picture of the assembled structures to become eligible for the parts listed as yellow.

Were there no yellow parts for your kits shown in

My email included a pdf file with a list of all red, blue, green and yellow parts for my kit. The email said that red and yellow parts would be paid for by Van's. The portal itself only had choices for red blue and green parts. However, if you select that the kit has been either partially or fully assembled, it asks for a picture of the assembled structures to become eligible for the parts listed as yellow.

Were there no yellow parts for your kits shown in the pdf attachment?

Yes, both red and yellow parts. Yes, I have assembled checked and no, I tripled checked, does it offer me to add a photo. Is yours a QB? That might be the difference.

 

[Scout48]

Yes, both red and yellow parts. Yes, I have assembled checked and no, I tripled checked, does it offer me to add a photo. Is yours a QB? That might be the difference.

I have a SB, so maybe that is it? I haven't tried uploading any photos yet, so not sure what happens afterwards yet.

 

[steve997]

Hello -
I am in the same boat. QB wings. Delivered to me on July 5th 2023. Lots of laser cut parts.
At one point Vans had said they would offer to provide ALL of the parts to build Ailerons and Flaps OR offer the opportunity to purchase replacement assemblies at a discounted cost. I am trying to find the video where they said that -- does anyone have anything that indicates that they would do this? If you do, and you can share, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Chris Langenfeld

I asked the same question today and Greg said he'd check and let us know (ie. I don't want to say 'no' to aileron/flap replacement parts then only to find out later I can't order a replacement aileron/flap assembly) .

 

[abaden]

Here's the Aileron riveting page from the RV-10 plans manual. You start by riveting the nose ribs to the nose skin. Then you insert each aileron half, rivet those to the rear spar, and then rivet the half together at the trailing edge.
To replace the spar, nose ribs, and main ribs one would need to either substitute blind rivets for every single nose rib rivet (is this acceptable per Van's engineering? We have no idea) or remove the rivets from the trailing edge, which is a bad idea, because you risk bending the trailing edge - not to mention isn't the trailing edge sealed?).

 

[Pskluz]

I asked the same question today and Greg said he'd check and let us know (ie. I don't want to say 'no' to aileron/flap replacement parts then only to find out later I can't

So I counted how many rivets would need to.be drilled out of my 14 flaps to replace the red parts and the total was over 300 and that doesn't include the ailerons

 

[gtrplaya101]

Has anyone heard any updates about this? Portal does not list an option to select new Alerions and Flaps, as Greg had previously offered.

 

[Clangenf]

I have not heard anything. I am still waiting since this is the solution that I want.
Chris Langenfeld

 

[apicreator]

I was offered the option to get the LCP replacements for the affected parts in my QB Wings and QB Fuselage. However, there are no instructions on how to replace them. I was also offered the option to get the parts to fully rebuild my self the flaps and ailerons but that will invalidate my choice for QB. I am more than willing to buy built flaps and ailerons rather than decomposing what I have. I do not think they are (easy) fixable. If more of us in the same situation will inquire on the ready built flaps and ailerons, maybe they will speed up the process of building them.... My other option is to keep as it is, and replace them after 100-200 hours flying

 

[ccarlson]

I am more than willing to buy built flaps and ailerons rather than decomposing what I have.

(Note: If I misunderstood your intended meaning, I apologize.)

If you had the new, unassembled parts, it probably wouldn’t take that long for a small group of “properly incentivized” (pizza, beer, tunes) builders to assist you with assembly (I’d volunteer to help if you were reasonably close by).

I understand you bought QB and would prefer to buy built assemblies, but I can’t help but wonder if crowd sourcing assembly might be a more timely option under the circumstances.

 

[gtrplaya101]

Where were you given the option to get all the parts to replace your flaps and aileron? My portal only offered the red and yellow parts but not the full "kit" that would be required to rebuild them as was previously promised?

 

[georgemohr]

Did you all consider drilling out a small sample of rivets on the affected parts and look for indications of cracking? If none, you will do way more damage than good disassembling entire components to replace a fully serviceable assembly.

This is the approach we took on both our own assembled parts, and on our QB fuse.

 

[paulinbtr]

Ditto on most of the posts. I have QB wings with a few affected parts and notice about the control surfaces. One of the e-mails I received a while back Vans said they would offer the parts for complete control surfaces. I e-mailed them regarding this. I’m awaiting a reply. After watching the video about their testing and grading I don’t want any chance of a red part failing. At some point in the future I’m sure a wise potential buyer will require proof the red lcps are remediated.

 

[apicreator]

(Note: If I misunderstood your intended meaning, I apologize.)

If you had the new, unassembled parts, it probably wouldn’t take that long for a small group of “properly incentivized” (pizza, beer, tunes) builders to assist you with assembly (I’d volunteer to help if you were reasonably close by).

I understand you bought QB and would prefer to buy built assemblies, but I can’t help but wonder if crowd sourcing assembly might be a more timely option under the circumstances.

I would gladly do that. However, I am oversea, the local RV building community is just myself for hundreds of miles around. At the moment, I will just focus on the EMP that I have to rebuild. Once I finish that and upgrade my skills, if there is no other option from Vans, rebuilding them is the only way to move forward.

 

[apicreator]

Where were you given the option to get all the parts to replace your flaps and aileron? My portal only offered the red and yellow parts but not the full "kit" that would be required to rebuild them as was previously promised?

No. The portal just offers the way to buy they red/yellow parts. If you want the whole flaps/aileron assembly, you will have to reach them.

 

[Pskluz]

Ditto on most of the posts. I have QB wings with a few affected parts and notice about the control surfaces. One of the e-mails I received a while back Vans said they would offer the parts for complete control surfaces. I e-mailed them regarding this. I’m awaiting a reply. After watching the video about their testing and grading I don’t want any chance of a red part failing. At some point in the future I’m sure a wise potential buyer will require proof the red lcps are remediated.

If you call and talk to them they will ship you all the parts you need to build new flaps and ailerons when they send you the rest of your LCP parts. On my 14 QB wings, I am considering just replacing the end rib on the fuselage end as it and attached components are the only red parts. The third rib is yellow but it would be VERY difficult to replace so waiting to see their engineering fix. no cracks found. See attached photos. Mine are being delivered today!

 

[Clangenf]

Has anyone heard anything about being able to purchase new Flaps and Ailerons at a discount to replace QB assemblies that were supplied with LCP's?
I can't seem to get a response from Vans....
I'm ready to order my finishing kit, but want to resolve this wing situation before I order the finishing kit.
Anyone having any luck on this?

Thank you!
Chris

 

[apicreator]

Same situation with an QB RV-7. I was offered to buy the separated LCP parts but there is no SB on how to apply them to the existing built or to buy the parts to make the full assembly myself. I denied both options. I am ok to get the separated parts but they should issue a SB on how to apply them to the pre built ailerons, flaps and not to mention a pre built wing. I do not want to build them myself when I paid for QB. I have also submitted a claim for the same reasons.

 

[Cobra427man]

I'm building a RV12is and my horizontal stabilator was impacted with red lcp parts. The for and aft spars to be exact. Seeing that my horizontal Stabilator was already assembled, I didn't trust myself to drill out over 600 rivets with the risk of subpar results to replace the impacted parts. To make a long story short, I decided to suck up the cost and purchase all new parts to rebuild the horizontal Stabilator and AST's from scratch. I supplied vans with an itemized list of what I needed and they accommodated me. I had to purchase all the non-lcp impacted parts (at a discount) for the assemblies but I'm able to get my build back on track. The $1000 i spent to do this is better than waiting and sitting on my hands IMHO. Plus I think Van's is not going to start replacing assemblies free of charge considering their financial challenges and the approach I took will be the ultimate roadmap for most builders.