Landing Fees

[MacCool]

My experience about 10 years ago is they charge about $29,999.99 because that is one cent less than where the bill gets audited for usury by either insurance or regulators. No matter the flight length. This limit may have gone up since.

They may charge that but they don’t collect anything close to that.

 

[roadrunner20]

I work on an EMS helicopter and just had a timely encounter. This morning we landed at a small airport to meet local EMS to pick up a critical trauma patient. While we were moving the patient from the ambulance onto our stretcher, just outside the rotor arc of the still-running helicopter, a man from the FBO walks out onto the ramp with a paper invoice and says to us "I know you guys are busy but how do you want to deal with the ramp fee?". He wasn't joking. Maybe they will add it to the patient's bill?

I’ve flown in to Tallahassee a few times on pilots n paws missions & million air waived the fees bc I was on a charity mission.

 

[jliltd]

They may charge that but they don’t collect anything close to that.

In our case my brother tried to negotiate with Native Air to no avail. They wouldn't come off one penny. He was a poor dirt farmer so he declared bankruptcy. So everybody lost except the lawyers.

 

[roadrunner20]

I've considered opting out of any data reporting that goes to sites such as flightaware.
You can opt out with the FAA here.

My wife likes to follow me on my cross country flights, but I can have her follow me on my Garmin InReach, which I can control.
Many celebrities or high end flyers elect to opt out. You'll see the notice on flightaware.
I suspect this would restrict these preditory companies from getting your data.

With opting out & anonymous mode, it would at least make it difficult to track. Can't help with the cameras though.

Edit: FWIW, I just opted out. I'll update this thread in a few days.

 

[skirting_virga]

I've considered opting out of any data reporting that goes to sites such as flightaware.
You can opt out with the FAA here.

My wife likes to follow me on my cross country flights, but I can have her follow me on my Garmin InReach, which I can control.
Many celebrities or high end flyers elect to opt out. You'll see the notice on flightaware.
I suspect this would restrict these preditory companies from getting your data.

With opting out & anonymous mode, it would at least make it difficult to track. Can't help with the cameras though.

Edit: FWIW, I just opted out. I'll update this thread in a few days.

Note that ADS-B exchange does not recognize the opt-out, nor would any private receivers. My flight school had all of their planes LADD flagged, but I can still follow them easily with ADS-B exchange. Vector Airport Systems may already put ADS-B receivers at the airports wishing to collect landing fees, and ignore your opt-out when they record your broadcast at the airport. I don't see much benefit to opting out.

 

[roadrunner20]

Note that ADS-B exchange does not recognize the opt-out, nor would any private receivers. My flight school had all of their planes LADD flagged, but I can still follow them easily with ADS-B exchange. Vector Airport Systems may already put ADS-B receivers at the airports wishing to collect landing fees, and ignore your opt-out when they record your broadcast at the airport. I don't see much benefit to opting out.

My understanding, the opt out would prevent the FAA distribution to third parties.
I wonder if squawking anonymous cancels out the ground equipment or do they convert the incoming datestream ICAO, if it's available while anonymous.

 

[jliltd]

My understanding, the opt out would prevent the FAA distribution to third parties.
I wonder if squawking anonymous cancels out the ground equipment or do they convert the incoming datestream ICAO, if it's available while anonymous.

Anonymous Mode is only available with Mode C coupled with UAT out. Not available for 1090ES. Mainly because Mode S has always provided full identification broadcast. So UAT equipment that has Anonymous Mode never cancels out any "ground equipment" whether or not Anonymous Mode is enabled or not. In fact, no approved ADS-B out equipment of any either type (978 or 1090ES) ever cancels out air or ground equipment nor does air or ground equipment ever do anything but receive the transmitted ICAO data.

Here is the basic simple way that UAT Anonymous Mode works. UAT 978Mhz "out" equipment has an internal random number generator. When the Anonymous Mode switch is enabled and the aircraft is squawking VFR this random number generator creates a randomized code that replaces the real ICAO code that is transmitted from the onboard equipment. This is before any data is transmitted from the aircraft. So in this state, at no time is the actual ICAO information available to any external system. So the ground equipment, LADD system, PIA system or cloaking requests to 3rd party data providers like Flightaware are meaningless because at no time can anybody tell who you really are. This includes the gubmit' including FAA and military (verified personally by interviewing systems engineers and the FAA). That's not a big impediment to law enforcement or the FAA because they have plenty of other ways to track down aircraft whether anonymous or non-anonymous. You are still a target after all.

Remember that Anonymous Mode doesn't make an aircraft "invisible". Just anonymous. Anonymous Mode doesn't sacrifice safety in any way. An aircraft with Anonymous Mode active while squawking VFR still shows up in the system and other aircraft and ATC can still see you and your heading, speed and altitude. But your target is stripped of identifying information, typically your registration number and type. So as an analogy if there was a traffic law that required every automobile on the road to broadcast the owner's name and contact information in a rear-window display at all time during operation, there could be an exclusion for certain cars who had a little different system that doesn't require the display. However, all the cars can travel down a multi-lane interstate safely by doing is the actual real case, see and avoid. Don't need to know who owns all the cars, just need to not hit any of them. So aircraft with 1090es would be like the cars with the personal information display and the aircraft with active Anonymous Mode would be like the actual case of cars today with the drivers and owners unknown until the insurance cards are needed.

Can you imagine of state DMVs required all cars to have that rear window information display? The lawsuits would hit and the outcry by privacy and safety experts would be loud. Why should airplanes not have the same protections?

Also, third-party data tracking systems use 1090ES receivers almost exclusively. UAT 978 is rarely monitored but I know of one service provider who has tried adding UAT receivers, but with little deployment. So even if an UAT-equipped aircraft doesn't have Anonymous Mode enabled they rarely show up anyway, sometimes even when squawking a discrete code with ATC enroute.

 

[moosepileit]

If only this was true on all UATs. Attached, again, is the first 5 seconds of my "anonymous mode on" start up.

I marked out my ID. Add your own pun.

 

[plehrke]

Can you imagine of state DMVs required all cars to have that rear window information display? The lawsuits would hit and the outcry by privacy and safety experts would be loud. Why should airplanes not have the same protections?

My thoughts exactly and I have been pissed from day one that the FAA posts online all pilot and aircraft registration info. With any company that would be considered a data breach and I would be offered 3 years of monitoring service. Unfortunately that boat has sailed.
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