I've gotten two quotes for an RV8 $145K hull value with no time in an RV8 and very little tailwheel time. Gallagher quoted $2500 and Avemco was $5500. Gallagher was gave me the best quote for my beech when I purchased it three years ago so I am assuming their quote for the RV will be the best. Suggestions would be appreciated as I shop around today. Side-note – I noticed the insurance tool on ForeFlight was not working for me. Could be related to the sale but I am curious if it is working for everyone else
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Insurance - No RV Time
- Thread starter TheNewGuy
- Start date
Do they offer a discount for being an EAA member? They did not ask
Funny, or not funny, I never asked! Let us know please.
Quote is about the same as what I was quoted 10+ years ago when I completed my RV8 and at the time I had about 40 hours of TW time. After that first year it dropped to around $1900/yr and now it averages about $1800/yr with $150k hull value. Higher than some other folks with RV's but I've been told by Gallagher that it's because my runway is grass and only 1800 feet. If the runway is 2000+ feet long, I've been told it would come down a little more. Land around here would cost me more than the slightly increased premium. Their service has been outstanding for the last 8 years I've had them. Since Avemco is independently owned I got a quote from them a couple of years ago and about fell out of my chair. They wanted close to $5k per year. First couple of years I had Falcon Insurance, they were the preferred provider for EAA at the time. They were OK but communication was a challenge; Gallagher is WAY better on that front. Got questions, they'll get right back to you.
Been with Gallagher since I switched to experimental in 2018. Had one claim shortly thereafter due to an uncommanded canopy departure. The claim was handled very efficiently with good service, zero pushback or negative impact on future business.
Gallagher has kept me at approximately the same rate since 2018 and continues to provide uninterrupted coverage as I near my 73rd birthday.
... and they have a great Oshkosh social get-together every year, what's not to like!
Time for an insurance refresher:
Avemco is an insurance company. It is the only aviation insurance company that uses its own agents. All the other companies (there aren’t a lot) use independent agents, sometimes called ‘brokers’. Gallagher and Falcon are brokers. They represent you to insurance companies, and forward the quotes to you, and advise you if they think a particular company should be avoided for some reason. In theory, all brokers should get the same quotes, except for minor variations in their fees. You choose a broker for their service, their ability to understand your needs and communicate with the actual insurance companies. For the record, I use Gallagher and am happy with their service.
Avemco is an insurance company. It is the only aviation insurance company that uses its own agents. All the other companies (there aren’t a lot) use independent agents, sometimes called ‘brokers’. Gallagher and Falcon are brokers. They represent you to insurance companies, and forward the quotes to you, and advise you if they think a particular company should be avoided for some reason. In theory, all brokers should get the same quotes, except for minor variations in their fees. You choose a broker for their service, their ability to understand your needs and communicate with the actual insurance companies. For the record, I use Gallagher and am happy with their service.
Gallagher said yes, depending on the carrier. According to the broker AIG offers a 20% discount, while others offer $60 off
I like the folks at Avemco - when I was with the print magazine, they were our longest-term full page advertiser - and every year we’d get together at SnF or AirVenture for lunch. I always told them that their RV quotes were twice what folks got from other undewriters, and they always smiled and said “we know”….but nothign ever changed. They cover the liability on my little jet for not much more than I pay on our RV’s with other companies - they are the only company that will write coverage on the Subsonex - but that’s the only business I can afford to do with them. Odd….
Exactly. Gallagher is a broker. My policy is with AIG.
MidwestMan
Well Known Member
Be careful, Gallagher quoted me a great rate, but then after I agreed to proceed with the policy and was flying around supposedly covered they sent me the full policy details. The fine print had a significantly more restrictive flight training requirement than what Gallagher had told me in the terms I agreed to. And this is important because I had already fulfilled the flight training terms that they had given me with the initial quote.
I ended up having to report Gallagher to my state board of insurance to get them to leave me alone. They kept claiming I owed them money for canceling the policy even though they were the ones who lied about the terms in writing. If you do go with them, read the full policy as soon as they send it to you, in my case the deal they promised was literally too good to be true.
I ended up having to report Gallagher to my state board of insurance to get them to leave me alone. They kept claiming I owed them money for canceling the policy even though they were the ones who lied about the terms in writing. If you do go with them, read the full policy as soon as they send it to you, in my case the deal they promised was literally too good to be true.
Thats odd. I'm not trying to minimize your experience, but you're the first person I've ever heard say anything bad about Gallagher, and they come up on here a lot because of people asking about where to get insurance.
I've had them since I first got builders risk a few years ago and have found them to be easy to work with and there have been no surprises. And yes, I do review the policy terms.
I've had them since I first got builders risk a few years ago and have found them to be easy to work with and there have been no surprises. And yes, I do review the policy terms.
MidwestMan
Well Known Member
I believe in my case it was originally a legitimate accident that they put the wrong terms in the quote. I can easily imagine making a similar mistake myself. However, when I called them and notified them of the mistake they doubled down and tried to make it my problem, which I find very telling. They made no effort to come up with a resolution. They also never made any form of apology, even after I had a signed investigation from my State insurance authority stating they were wrong.
Fffflats
Well Known Member
This just made me think Noise by Danny Kahneman of Thinking Fast and Slow, the newer book Noise had some things to say about insurance and a lack of precision aka presence of noise in rates. In it he also commented that the earlier book in its biases section could be viewed as analogous with accuracy while noise very much so with (lack of) precision.
“Level 73”, no longer call it an age in years.Been with Gallagher since I switched to experimental in 2018. Had one claim shortly thereafter due to an uncommanded canopy departure. The claim was handled very efficiently with good service, zero pushback or negative impact on future business.
Gallagher has kept me at approximately the same rate since 2018 and continues to provide uninterrupted coverage as I near my 73rd birthday.
... and they have a great Oshkosh social get-together every year, what's not to like!
timbopotamus
I'm New Here
Not sure if I should piggy back on this question, or start a new thread. Apologies if I'm choosing the incorrect route, but here goes...
I'm purchasing an RV-12 S-LSA as my first airplane, and am trying to figure out how much I should insure it for. Should I insure the hull value as the full purchase price? Or a smaller amount? All advice would be greatly appreciated
I'm purchasing an RV-12 S-LSA as my first airplane, and am trying to figure out how much I should insure it for. Should I insure the hull value as the full purchase price? Or a smaller amount? All advice would be greatly appreciated
Purchase price is a good start. Mine is not insured for what I have in it, because I can't replace it for that. Pick a number basically.
Just my opinion but I've always been concerned about insuring the airframe for a lower amount than replacement. If it's a smoldering heap (and zero salvage value) you get what you insured it for, which is fair but what if it's just a partial loss? Say you insure your 120k RV-12 replacement for 75k. You have a "minor" runway incursion, and it needs 40K to repair. Typically, anything over 50% is a total so the insurance company gives you 75k and you go on your way. The engine, avionics and other items (seats, interior, etc.) are worth 60k and the insurance company keeps and sells. Bottom line is you paid for 75K worth of insurance and you only net 15k delta. (You could also sell the parts) Numbers might change slightly but you get the drift.
Adding to Dwight's comments, you don't keep the parts in a totaled airplane, you can buy them back from the insurance company in some cases, so underinsuring guarantees that the insurance company wins (get's more value) in a total loss, vs. you "winning" with smaller premiums. In the end it's just a numbers game, and you get to pick your end value vs. premium. I'm more in the boat of I want the big loss case value to be in my favor, so my planes are insured for a replacement value.
I was in a simular situation. The first year was pretty high but second year was about half because I hadn't crashed. One of the many benefits of not crashing I guess.
EAA pointed me to the broker Acrisure in Kerrville TX and I went with them.
www.eaa.org
EAA Insurance Benefits| EAA
EAA Insurance Benefits features aircraft insurance, advice, and support, along with a selection of special insurance plans that are designed especially for EAA members.
That's looks about right for the Gallager quote. Of couse, it is directly related to hull value. The premium will come down as you gain (accident-free!) hours.
When flying solo, keep some ballast in the back. I had a front row seat to a (very forward CG) 8 going on it's nose recently due to a sudden stop. He was way under insured and is dancing the "total loss" line because of it. Has to foot some of the bill out of pocket to keep the plane.
When flying solo, keep some ballast in the back. I had a front row seat to a (very forward CG) 8 going on it's nose recently due to a sudden stop. He was way under insured and is dancing the "total loss" line because of it. Has to foot some of the bill out of pocket to keep the plane.
I never understood how they can continue to do business at 2X the price of their competitors. I figured things must be different on the certified side of things.
bluesflyer
Member
Anyone have experience with Clemens? They insure my Sundowner, but I'm having a hard time getting a quote on a -4 and a -8. Looking to sell my Beech, but I need some premium numbers to see if it will be worth it. I hope it will. Apparently Avemco should be carefully scrutinized (trying to keep decorum here).
Not sure what 'very little TW time' means, but if you are under 100 hours and zero RV-8 time, the quote that Gallagher gave you is very good!
I had several hundred hours TW, SES, with just under 2000 TT when I was searching for quotes last year for an RV-8. ALso zero RV time so I had to get a few hours dual before coverage, but I pay just under $2K for a bit less than you on hull value. Thinking of, I probably should increase it.
I generally try to insure my planes for what I percieve as replacement costs. As mentioned by another poster, that number is basically made up , within reason of what you expect the plane is worth. NEVER under insure, unless you can accept less than the full value of a plane. I know of someone that got a smking deal on a plane, crosswind,bad ground loop, and the owner had been only paying for hull value of what he paid for the plane. They paid him that value, which was roughly a little more than half the planes actual value. I insured my RV8 for roughly $20K above my purchase price because after getting the plane and 'fixing' some of its issues, that is what I would expect to get if I sell the plane.
When I bought this RV-9A six years ago I sought quotes from multiple brokers. Avemco was a joke, a few others were a little lower. BWI and Gallagher both quoted policies at a good premium from AIG and they were within a few dollars of each of each other. I went with Gallagher based on the agent's prompt responses dealing with me. A year or two later, the agent (Leah) contacted me and recommended switching companies to Global. She quoted a slightly lower premium, but better coverage, a higher hull value, and a dead simple online annual renewal process. I went with her recommendation.
Posters talk about this subject as if the premium was the only issue and the broker/agent merely a functionary to the process. IMHO, the broker is a huge component of that insurance equation. A good one will promptly reply to your emails, return your phone calls, give you good advice, and go to bat for you with the underwriter if and when necessary.
Posters talk about this subject as if the premium was the only issue and the broker/agent merely a functionary to the process. IMHO, the broker is a huge component of that insurance equation. A good one will promptly reply to your emails, return your phone calls, give you good advice, and go to bat for you with the underwriter if and when necessary.
I am currently flying a Cessna 120, and Avemco is the low cost option for that plane.
I asked them about a quote for my RV-14A. After they gave me a number I said “It sounds like you guys don’t want to be in the experimental market”. He said “Pretty much”
I asked them about a quote for my RV-14A. After they gave me a number I said “It sounds like you guys don’t want to be in the experimental market”. He said “Pretty much”
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Just curious, Could the owner of the under insured plane just not accept the payout from the insurance company and fix or sell it himself?
If you don't need the payout $ after an accident, you are better off not carrying insurance. Liability only would be a fraction of the cost. I don't carry hull values anywhere near replacement cost, as I only care to get back what I put into them. Then again, I don't NEED to find and pay for a replacement aircraft and would either not replace it or buy it back and repair it after the claim was payed. If your reason for getting insurance is to replace or repair the aircraft after an accident, then you are wise to carry a hull value that allows you to do that.
Plane was totaled. Did a flip-flop. Was a certified plane so it would have cost way more to repair than it was worth. I'm sure someone may be rebuilding it as it is a desireable aircraft now days.
Still wondering if you have to accept the totaled plane payout or just fix it yourself because you disagree with the insurance company. In other words, are you forced to take the payout?
You can cancel/withdraw the claim at any point and fix it yourself. It's a settlement offer. Both parties have to agree to the terms for it to be executed.
I think that was Falcon.EAA pointed me to the broker Acrisure in Kerrville TX and I went with them.
EAA Insurance Benefits| EAA
EAA Insurance Benefits features aircraft insurance, advice, and support, along with a selection of special insurance plans that are designed especially for EAA members.
