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How effective is the cold air intake and ram air effect?

akschu

Well Known Member
Patron
Disclaimer: this isn't an RV, but my questions apply to all lycoming powered airplanes, especially fast ones and this forum really considers the math and science.

Recently I noticed this picture over on another site:

IMG_5978001.jpg

Now, that is very very very very fast for an airplane with 31" tires, a belly pod, and cub style cabane V. Obviously the secret sauce is the 23.7 MAP at 10,500. The builder says he gets ram air into his EFII throttle body and lycoming/barrett cold air sump. The intake is a front facing inlet like an RV-10, but probably 4 times the size.

What I can't get my head around is the fact that he is getting 3" of manifold pressure over a standard day at 10,500 when my dynamic pressure calculations suggest that there is only 1" of ram air available at those speeds and altitudes.

Here are my questions:

1. How is this possible without a turbo charger?

2. How much does the EFII have to do with it. It doesn't have the big venturi in the middle of it's throat like an AFP or Bendix fuel servo, how much does that matter?

3. How much performance can one expect going to the Barrett cold air sump? Rhonda at Barrett told me that they see 18hp and a few inches at sea level going from a stock io-540 to their cold air sump and an FM-300 servo.

Surely some RV peeps have searched the deep well of cold air sumps and moving from the small stock lycoming updraft sump with an FM-150 and converting to the much larger horizonal setup and the far larger FM-300.
 
Ditto what Brian said (beat me to the post)...
his OAT or MP (or both) are inaccurate.

making 74% power at 10,478 density altitude is quite an accomplishment.
 
Ditto what Brian said (beat me to the post)...
his OAT or MP (or both) are inaccurate.

making 74% power at 10,478 density altitude is quite an accomplishment.

How does OAT sensor effect MP? I thought MP sensor was absolute. Even if his OAT was off, that would make his TAS wrong, but then he would need a pretty good tailwind as the ground speed is only 2kt slower.
 
Lies, D@mned Lies, and EFIS data :)

I’d like to see the calibration evidence on the static system, pitot system, each and every sensor…

This isn’t the first time we’ve seen these kinds of fantastical speeds/power settings. They happen quite frequently in Australia— something about vegemite… 😅
 
Lies, D@mned Lies, and EFIS data :)

I’d like to see the calibration evidence on the static system, pitot system, each and every sensor…

This isn’t the first time we’ve seen these kinds of fantastical speeds/power settings. They happen quite frequently in Australia— something about vegemite… 😅
Haha :)
Yes. Coincidentally I have a Barrett with cold air too!
I think the sensor is just junk - or the software sensing needs tweaking - or the snubber affects it like some kind of one way valve..
Anyway - I’ve learnt to live with it for now. One of these days I might swap it out. Its largely irrelevant to me as most of my flying is push the throttle to WOT on takeoff - climb to where I know I'm well sub 75% pwr - and usually leave it there till TOD - but yes i'd be happier if it was accurate.

As far as the static goes. My total airspeed system error is less than a knot from 100-155 KIAS - that I'm comfortable with :p
Screen Shot 2024-03-11 at 2.34.19 pm.png



Heres a sample of what the MAP looked like pre snubber ( 8.5k alt) and post snubber (9k).
I never really noticed the giveaway 35" on takeoff with the snubber - so never really gave it a second thought. It was next to useless without the snubber. Its still inaccurate now, but at least the gauge isn't swinging around 5" at a time anymore - that was annoying.

For the OP.. Im happy with my CAI and FM300. To me it make sense to try and get as much potential horsepower out of a given engine as possible. You can always throttle back if you want to go slower.

Screen Shot 2024-03-11 at 2.30.14 pm.pngScreen Shot 2024-03-11 at 2.29.20 pm.png

Heres a flight from earlier this week: 24.9" at 9k 🚀 😜
1710132984215.jpeg
 
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Oh interesting, so you're saying that the snubber gives you a bunch of error and without it, MAP swung around 5"?

This is great feedback, thanks!
 
@Richard Connell what snubber are you using? Is it like the manifold that SDS sells? Or is it an electrical solution?


Seems like getting MAP from every cylinder is a good way to smooth this out.
It’s the PS-8G Omega snubber that Garmin prescribes in the install manual.

I have read that others have had luck with restrictors instead of the omega snubber so I may try that at some stage.
 
I tap into the plenum itself. Anywhere downstream of the throttle blade will provide the average across all cylinders and eliminate bounce without a snubber or the complexity and multiple failure mode of a manifold.
 
I wonder what his oil temp is down below and full power when he is getting 217F when the OAT is 27F.
 
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