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How does the 3 fly?
- Thread starter Tram
- Start date
Everybody has their own opinion. Mine is..a 150/160hp, F/P -3 is the best flying of all RVs. The -4 is a close second. With the -6 bringing up 3rd place.
The secrete is "light-weight". When you start adding constant speed props, heavy leather interiors, auto pilots, etc. flying qualities diminish quickly.
The secrete is "light-weight". When you start adding constant speed props, heavy leather interiors, auto pilots, etc. flying qualities diminish quickly.
I have flown every RV model (except those ending in a “5”) enough to pretty definitively say that the -3 is the most enjoyable flying machine - from a pilot handling standpoint - of any of them. Unless you have a very heavy nose (think 200 hp, metal C/S….), it is fingertip flying. Ours is full IFR with an Oregon Aero seat, so fairly heavy (as -3’s go) - but with an IO-320 and a composite C/S, the CG is back where it belongs and the word I most often use when describing it is “delightful”. If I just want some purely enjoyable time in the air, the RV-3 gets the nod - its why its usually up front in our hangar.
As the airplanes get progressively bigger, they move away from this perfect little package of pilot joy - but the -4 and -6 are close…depending a lot on how the ailerons are shaped and rigged - so I wouldn’t dismiss them. But unless you’ve flown them all, its hard to compare them, since they are all better than anything else you have likely flown as a typical PP.
The RV-3 would probably be the last of our fleet that I’d want to part with.
As the airplanes get progressively bigger, they move away from this perfect little package of pilot joy - but the -4 and -6 are close…depending a lot on how the ailerons are shaped and rigged - so I wouldn’t dismiss them. But unless you’ve flown them all, its hard to compare them, since they are all better than anything else you have likely flown as a typical PP.
The RV-3 would probably be the last of our fleet that I’d want to part with.
The B variant has 30 gallons.
Dave
Dave
Having flown all the tail dragger versions of the RVs, i would agree with Paul and Mel in their assessments.
Mine is a 3B with 160 hp with an MT C/S prop weighing 832 empty.
It climbs like crazy, is light on the stick and fast. Take off is really quick and landing is about the same as the others, maybe a little bit twitchier.
overall it’s the most fun to fly and typically draws lookers where ever I go.
For general local flights though, I tend to fly my Legend Cub more, but that is a completely different kind of fun!
Flying the RV3 is something special
Many accurate answers but surprised no one replied "with lift and thrust."
I have a RV-3A which I've owned for over two years. Its has a 0290 - D2 Lyc. I'm 82 years old, been flying since I was 19 and have flown over 64 different type including many Homebuilts, Warbirds etc. The 3 has been the joy in life. It is without a doubt the nicest well behaved aircraft i've ever flown. It's the icing on the cake as it were.
Unfortunately my health is now getting in the way and I've decided to sell.
[Link to non-VAF site deleted per VAF rules. Feel free to place an ad in the VAF Classifieds; S.Buchanan]
Unfortunately my health is now getting in the way and I've decided to sell.
[Link to non-VAF site deleted per VAF rules. Feel free to place an ad in the VAF Classifieds; S.Buchanan]
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I’ve flown the 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9. I‘m on my 2nd RV-3 and have about 450 hours in RV-3’s. The 3 is the best of the bunch for fun flying. As others have said, it’s much lighter on the controls and very “flickable” for lack of a better word. For the first 2-3 hours, you may think the controls are too light, but then you fall in love with it and want nothing else.
My current RV-3 is a bit chubby at nearly 900 pounds, but as Paul said, I think CG makes all the difference in the way the plane handles. Mine is perfect as far as I’m concerned. The only RV-4 I’ve ever flown that comes close to the fine handling characteristics of my 3 is an RV-4 built by Larry Jensen. It has an old fashioned Hartzel metal constant speed prop and an O360. If you could find another 4 that flies as nice as the Larry Jensen 4, I could see why a person might consider a 4 instead of a 3 just to share the RV experience.
My $0.02
My current RV-3 is a bit chubby at nearly 900 pounds, but as Paul said, I think CG makes all the difference in the way the plane handles. Mine is perfect as far as I’m concerned. The only RV-4 I’ve ever flown that comes close to the fine handling characteristics of my 3 is an RV-4 built by Larry Jensen. It has an old fashioned Hartzel metal constant speed prop and an O360. If you could find another 4 that flies as nice as the Larry Jensen 4, I could see why a person might consider a 4 instead of a 3 just to share the RV experience.
My $0.02
Bill Boyd
Well Known Member
I came here to say precisely this.
To be more historically accurate, others had worked out the lift and thrust issues sufficiently before 1903. The wing-warping Wrights added the magic 3rd leg to the stool - controllability.
highflight42x
Well Known Member
Here are some numbers on the -3 to support the group praise: with a 160hp stock Lycoming, 3-blade 68-70 Catto, day VFR panel, on a standard day at sea-level, I'll see 2400ft/min max climbout on takeoff (95mph indicated), 200mph top speed at 2750rpm (although I don't do that much b/c it's very noisy), 170mph cruise (much quieter) at 2450rpm, 6.5gph local flights at 5000' ; takeoff requires about 5 seconds, short final at 75 (70 if I want to stop sooner). Liability insurance is about $300/yr. The -3 has fit my mission very well for the 30 years since I built one: best performance at least cost. Cheers!
- Steven
1500 RV3 hours; another one last Friday!
Or more accurately... "with money"
Takes a lot of money to create thrust.Or more accurately... "with money"
I am dying to fly a taildragger 9. What was your impression?
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1rv4
Active Member
If its built to plans it shoudl be perfect. The shape is sometimes missed by folks - if you imagine the folded trailing edge to be a segment of the circle, the upper and lower surfaces of the aileron shoudl converge to be perfectly straight until they hit the tangent point of the circle - neither concave or convex. Then it’ll fly the way Van’s intended!
Been flying my -3 for the last 20 years, and I love it. You don't get in it, you wear it, and it becomes an extension of your body what you think, it will do and very well. I don't find it to be twitchy on landing, I normally do 3-point landings with the tail slightly low, so it touches first, Mine is rather light at 740lbs. O320 with a Sterba cruise prop. I transitioned in the -6 and found that after I got in the -3 that the controls felt very light, but after a few hours it just feels right. When I would do my Bi-annual in the -6 the controls always felt heavy to me. In my opinion, the -3 is the best bang for the buck.
WOW, that’s less than what Vans has published. My is a 3B and is about 840 lbs. O320 with a Prince carbon wrapped prop. Now I do have an AP with servos but that’s offset with dual electronic ignition (I would say each magneto weighs as much as a servo). Does anyone know how much more a B wing weighs? I can understand a 30 or so lb difference, but a 100 lbs is significant
Yes, we were surprised as well when we weighed it, as a matter of fact we weighed it twice. Looking back on the construction anyplace that we could save weight, we did. It was a matter of a pound here and a pound there, but they all added up. We called Vans and asked them about the weight, and they said it was possible to do without compromising safety. This airplane has been straight up, straight down, looped rolled, and spun, (my dad loved to spin). I would be curious how much heavier the 3B wing is than the 3A.
Please keep me posted on what you find out.
Please keep me posted on what you find out.
Andy Hill's RV-3B weighed 733 lbs. It had an IO-320, narrow case, Berenger wheels and an MT constant speed prop.
Dave
Dave
The best RV is the one you have 
Very few airplanes just go where you point them. They do have an odd device on the front that spins around and imparts some interesting effects at high power and high alpha
, but if there is a sweeter family of airplanes, it hasn’t been invented yet. Only difference between any of them is how you manage the energy you have available.
And you can’t argue with the perfect number of seats in an airplane: 1
.
Memorial day, remember.
Vac
Very few airplanes just go where you point them. They do have an odd device on the front that spins around and imparts some interesting effects at high power and high alpha
, but if there is a sweeter family of airplanes, it hasn’t been invented yet. Only difference between any of them is how you manage the energy you have available.And you can’t argue with the perfect number of seats in an airplane: 1
.Memorial day, remember.
Vac
That certainly is an interesting question. I can say that the QB wings in my RV-3B do not have lightening holes in the wing main spar web. I also wonder how much heavier aileron bell cranks are in the RV-3B. I don't understand why they went from alum to steel.
My -3A has 160ish HP Lycoming and 3 blade Catto also. Can confirm I get very similar numbers.
I know some folks who will "un-squeeze" the trailing edge of the aileron in order to make them lighter/more effective. I have no idea how successful this was. But it does speak to NOT squeezing the trailing edge down in order to "fix" an out-of-trim airplane. That just un-trims it even more, and kills off aileron effectiveness.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
You can want all you can and if you weren't married that would be YOUR choice but I don't think a one seater would be her choice
Ahhhh….you don’t know my wife - she has as many hours in the RV-3 as I do…..You can want all you can and if you weren't married that would be YOUR choice but I don't think a one seater would be her choice
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
If you are thinking about a 3, I have mine for sale. I need a second seat and a little more range. PM if interested, it is well outfitted with all GRT stuff.
We all know what really makes airplanes fly... Money.
Tram,
I’m not in the same league as Ironflight, but I’ve flown the -4, 6A, 7, 8A, 9A, 10A and loved the -4 for over 1,000 hours, I wish for another 1,000.
My -4 was light at 932, IO-320 CS and the climb and speed approached ridiculous.
Someday I hope to hold the stick of a -3 “as if it were a butterfly between my fingers so lightly the wing-dust does not come off”.
Daddyman58
I’m not in the same league as Ironflight, but I’ve flown the -4, 6A, 7, 8A, 9A, 10A and loved the -4 for over 1,000 hours, I wish for another 1,000.
My -4 was light at 932, IO-320 CS and the climb and speed approached ridiculous.
Someday I hope to hold the stick of a -3 “as if it were a butterfly between my fingers so lightly the wing-dust does not come off”.
Daddyman58
BoydBirchler
Well Known Member
I was used to flying Christen Eagle, S1S and S2 Pitts, so the RV3 control pressures felt just right. The one I flew had 9:1 pistons in an IO-320 with a metal FP prop, it would indicate 185MPH at 2450 and seemed to have a roll rate comparable to a S1S Pitts,
Wow, that is light. That’s lighter than the published wt of 750. Mine is a 3B and weighs 840. I’m not sure why 90 lbs over the published wt. I could understand 50 lbs over but not 90. It does have an AP, G3X, G5 and dual electronic ignition (SDS which is lighter than regular mags) and GPS175, but it has an EarthX battery, wood prop and mini alternator. Does anyone know how much heavier a 3B should be from a 3?
I’ve gotten 182 kts TAS at 2300’ @ 14gph. I think Vans needs to build a RV135 tanker so we can do air refueling
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EdH
Well Known Member
My two are good examples of RV-3 weight variation and how it feels to fly.
The ex-Steve Johansen Gee-Bee Model Z colours-painted RV-3B with it's fuller panel (Two AV30, radio/transponder), 160hp O-320 (wood f/p prop), and multi-layer paint is around 62 lbs heavier than my spartan white and blue 3B (Dynon D100 and a handheld radio) with an O-235 (wood f/p) that comes in at 750lbs empty. They are both great aeroplanes to fly, but the 320-powered aeroplane feels much more dart like. The light -3 is just plain fun.
I could probably take another 15 lbs out of the light -3 with an EarthX battery and a Monkworkz generator, but for that aeroplane it would be weight off of the wrong end.
The ex-Steve Johansen Gee-Bee Model Z colours-painted RV-3B with it's fuller panel (Two AV30, radio/transponder), 160hp O-320 (wood f/p prop), and multi-layer paint is around 62 lbs heavier than my spartan white and blue 3B (Dynon D100 and a handheld radio) with an O-235 (wood f/p) that comes in at 750lbs empty. They are both great aeroplanes to fly, but the 320-powered aeroplane feels much more dart like. The light -3 is just plain fun.
I could probably take another 15 lbs out of the light -3 with an EarthX battery and a Monkworkz generator, but for that aeroplane it would be weight off of the wrong end.
I have owned 2 RV3's built by others, and hope to have another when I retire. Absolutely joyful airplanes.
BUT, single seaters are usually only flown by their owners, and they are unique machines with personalities that would be corrected if more people got to try them. Both of mine had significant quirks.
The first one was built by a man who was a serial builder and reportedly built 5 of this model. Mine was not his first or last, but had a number of errors in its build. Worst thing was the messed up trailing edges as Paul Dye referred to. After hours of adjustment, I got it to fly hands off, but it was pretty squirrelly when I first got it. It also had pretty sad workmanship. Safe but ugly. It was also before the second set of spar mods was created, which is interesting because I routinely pulled close to 6 Gs with no problems. Perhaps the best assessment of how it flew is that I never lost a dogfight (AF trained) ever, including against Bruce Bohannon in a Pitts S2B and a number of very famous astronauts in their airplanes. Spectacular performer.
The second one was much better built, but it also had a few quirks. The biggest was one of the aileron mounting brackets was not built to plan, causing the end of the aileron to sit below its correct location. Messed up the aerodynamic balance, aileron trim varied widely across airspeed range, and did really strange things to adverse yaw. Once I figured it out (it was a small error that took a lot of measurements to confirm), it flew like a dream. Also, the cabin heat required complete rework to get it to shut off (mandatory in Houston).
Absolutely love RVs. Have owned 3 RV-6s and one RV4, and have time in RV-8, 10, and 14. Love them all.
BUT, single seaters are usually only flown by their owners, and they are unique machines with personalities that would be corrected if more people got to try them. Both of mine had significant quirks.
The first one was built by a man who was a serial builder and reportedly built 5 of this model. Mine was not his first or last, but had a number of errors in its build. Worst thing was the messed up trailing edges as Paul Dye referred to. After hours of adjustment, I got it to fly hands off, but it was pretty squirrelly when I first got it. It also had pretty sad workmanship. Safe but ugly. It was also before the second set of spar mods was created, which is interesting because I routinely pulled close to 6 Gs with no problems. Perhaps the best assessment of how it flew is that I never lost a dogfight (AF trained) ever, including against Bruce Bohannon in a Pitts S2B and a number of very famous astronauts in their airplanes. Spectacular performer.
The second one was much better built, but it also had a few quirks. The biggest was one of the aileron mounting brackets was not built to plan, causing the end of the aileron to sit below its correct location. Messed up the aerodynamic balance, aileron trim varied widely across airspeed range, and did really strange things to adverse yaw. Once I figured it out (it was a small error that took a lot of measurements to confirm), it flew like a dream. Also, the cabin heat required complete rework to get it to shut off (mandatory in Houston).
Absolutely love RVs. Have owned 3 RV-6s and one RV4, and have time in RV-8, 10, and 14. Love them all.
J29racer
Member
Well I thought I would check in on my progress with N40DC! I have about 10 hrs of flying now and still getting the hang of landing. I must say it flys great with no real handling problems. I am still getting use to it and have not explored high end performance but flies nicely with hands and feet off and feels balanced. I could use much help in guiding me through this process. So far I have only been flying in the mornings and just dealing with the airplane characteristics with no wind influence. I still have not got wheel landing down but close. The plane is not pretty yet but that will come. The panel is functional and everything works.
I would love some help in modifying cowling to incorporate an air-filter.
I would love some help in modifying cowling to incorporate an air-filter.
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Actually, the true answer is MONEY.
Where are you located?
The lightest RV-3B I know of is Andy Hill's, at 733. It was unpainted. He paid great attention to weight.
Dave
Dave
EdH
Well Known Member
Great to see you enjoying your new -3.
One thing that’s on my mind seeing your pix, that roll over hoop looks very non standard - is there some hidden structure under the skin that’s transferring the hoop loads to the longerons?
EdH
Well Known Member
My basic 3B is 17 lbs heavier but does have paint.
J29racer
Member
EdH
Well Known Member
I did wonder if that was some part off a convertible! Great, as long as it offers you some protection
