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G4X: Connecting the Dots

How about...
  • Higher screen resolution (MUCH higher)

Why does it need higher resolution? I already can't make out individual pixels at arm's length. Higher resolution doesn't change anything, other than that it'd take longer to repaint the screen, and that doesn't sound great given that some of you are already complaining about refresh latency during zoom-and-pan.

It'd be nice for it to have higher resolution and more brightness, because having a GDU immediately next to a GTN is incongruous. A bit. Maybe.

But that isn't a reason to justify an entire new product line.

  • Faster CPU's (MUCH faster)

Why? What does it do now that needs a faster CPU?

Flipping from page to page is almost instant. Repainting an entire map or chart takes less than half a second. The synthetic vision frame rate is smooth enough.

These are real time embedded systems. The CPU only needs to be fast enough to keep up with the stream of data that's triggering updates, and that comes in over low bandwidth RS232 and Canbus bit-pipes. Upgrading the CPU would be wasted; you're still only going to get 10fps out of the display if the ADHARS LRU is supplying a 10 Hz data update rate, so what does extra CPU grunt (cost) buy you?

  • Smaller footprint behind panel

Has anyone declined to buy a G3X Touch system because their space behind the panel is less than the 3.6" (plus connector depth) the GDU needs?

As someone who upgraded into G3X Touch from a steam gauge panel, I can tell you it occupies a LOT less volume behind the panel than a six-pack.

  • Over the air updates via wifi

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: G3X Touch systems already have wireless connectivity (all installations support Bluetooth, some support WiFi, depending on the LRU mix)

If the wireless connectivity is already there, whether you can do over the air updates is a software feature, not a hardware feature. Garmin doesn't need to produce new hardware to support OTA updates.

They could announce Database Concierge for G3X Touch at Oshkosh. Software feature. I don't know anything about their internal software architecture, but I'd guess that it wouldn't even be a lot of effort to port the code from their other platforms.

They've made a business/product decision to not support that feature on the G3X Touch product line. We are not a market they're choosing to address with that feature.

So it's unlikely that they'll turn around and say, "Actually, we've changed our mind," if they had new hardware.

If you want them to support OTA updates, the best way to do it is to go to Dynon and say, "If you deliver support for OTA updates, I'll buy your product," and then do that instead of buying the Garmin product. If enough people do that, they'll probably release Database Concierge for G3X Touch in a heartbeat. No new hardware required.

.

There's a feature I've wanted for five years: Outside North America, there's no 978UAT, no TIS-B, and no SiriusXM, so 0% of the connectivity features which enable you people to get NOTAMS, TAFs, TFRs, weather, freezing level, wind data, etc work. We don't get weather overlays on the map, none of the weather or NOTAM tabs on waypoint info have any data in them. All that situational awareness that everyone knows and loves from the G3X Touch platform is completely absent unless you're in the USA.

Now: With bluetooth connectivity, I know that Garmin COULD use my phone/iPad internet access to load all that data into Garmin Pilot, and squirt it live via Bluetooth into the GDUs so it'd show up on the displays. I know I COULD have the same set of connectivity and situational awareness visualization features you enjoy. Software upgrade, kerblammo, easy. It'd even convince me to pay for Garmin Pilot, which I'd never do otherwise.

Frankly I'd rather they put engineering resources into features like that than on coming up with new black rectangles. Customers are currently buying G3X Touch systems as fast as they can manufacture them; New black rectangles are unlikely to drive more sales, so why would they do it?

- mark
 
Why does it need higher resolution? I already can't make out individual pixels at arm's length. Higher resolution doesn't change anything, other than that it'd take longer to repaint the screen, and that doesn't sound great given that some of you are already complaining about refresh latency during zoom-and-pan.

It'd be nice for it to have higher resolution and more brightness, because having a GDU immediately next to a GTN is incongruous. A bit. Maybe.

But that isn't a reason to justify an entire new product line.



Why? What does it do now that needs a faster CPU?

Flipping from page to page is almost instant. Repainting an entire map or chart takes less than half a second. The synthetic vision frame rate is smooth enough.

These are real time embedded systems. The CPU only needs to be fast enough to keep up with the stream of data that's triggering updates, and that comes in over low bandwidth RS232 and Canbus bit-pipes. Upgrading the CPU would be wasted; you're still only going to get 10fps out of the display if the ADHARS LRU is supplying a 10 Hz data update rate, so what does extra CPU grunt (cost) buy you?



Has anyone declined to buy a G3X Touch system because their space behind the panel is less than the 3.6" (plus connector depth) the GDU needs?

As someone who upgraded into G3X Touch from a steam gauge panel, I can tell you it occupies a LOT less volume behind the panel than a six-pack.



This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: G3X Touch systems already have wireless connectivity (all installations support Bluetooth, some support WiFi, depending on the LRU mix)

If the wireless connectivity is already there, whether you can do over the air updates is a software feature, not a hardware feature. Garmin doesn't need to produce new hardware to support OTA updates.

They could announce Database Concierge for G3X Touch at Oshkosh. Software feature. I don't know anything about their internal software architecture, but I'd guess that it wouldn't even be a lot of effort to port the code from their other platforms.

They've made a business/product decision to not support that feature on the G3X Touch product line. We are not a market they're choosing to address with that feature.

So it's unlikely that they'll turn around and say, "Actually, we've changed our mind," if they had new hardware.

If you want them to support OTA updates, the best way to do it is to go to Dynon and say, "If you deliver support for OTA updates, I'll buy your product," and then do that instead of buying the Garmin product. If enough people do that, they'll probably release Database Concierge for G3X Touch in a heartbeat. No new hardware required.

.

There's a feature I've wanted for five years: Outside North America, there's no 978UAT, no TIS-B, and no SiriusXM, so 0% of the connectivity features which enable you people to get NOTAMS, TAFs, TFRs, weather, freezing level, wind data, etc work. We don't get weather overlays on the map, none of the weather or NOTAM tabs on waypoint info have any data in them. All that situational awareness that everyone knows and loves from the G3X Touch platform is completely absent unless you're in the USA.

Now: With bluetooth connectivity, I know that Garmin COULD use my phone/iPad internet access to load all that data into Garmin Pilot, and squirt it live via Bluetooth into the GDUs so it'd show up on the displays. I know I COULD have the same set of connectivity and situational awareness visualization features you enjoy. Software upgrade, kerblammo, easy. It'd even convince me to pay for Garmin Pilot, which I'd never do otherwise.

Frankly I'd rather they put engineering resources into features like that than on coming up with new black rectangles. Customers are currently buying G3X Touch systems as fast as they can manufacture them; New black rectangles are unlikely to drive more sales, so why would they do it?

- mark
I generally agree with this. I’d theoretically take those additional features over better screen resolution or refresh. The database situation is painfully antiquated and the hardware theoretically exists to solve it already. As well as BT or WiFi data to support wx and the like.
However… given the hardware is 12y old we don’t really know if this is actually possible. There have been in flight GDU shutdowns in the past related to BT. Are they still on BT 3.0 or 4.0? Does it require a hardware change?
Anyone trying to BT their iOS devices to GDUs have probably noticed it’s not a bug free interface.
I don’t allow any devices to BT to my avionics.

The fact that they feel zero pressure to even make a basic iOS app that can update databases tells you everything you need to know about the state of competition in the small market we live in :-(
 
Given current prices of DRAM and flash, I'm not sure you'll want to see the price of a new display that was equipped with more of them :)

Other than the bezel and perhaps screen brightness, it's hard to see what else the G3X Touch needs to provide that can't be provided by software.

Consider cellphones: They all run iOS or Android, so they all have the same app availability. We're far enough down the evolution line that they all have the same package of sensors and radios, so they all do WiFi, GPS, 5G. The biggest differentiator between them is the pixel count and dynamic range of their cameras, but we're far enough into phone evolution that even that stuff is very hard to care about now. So when the black rectangle in my pocket runs out of life I'm going to replace it with a new black rectangle which will be approximately the same size with approximately the same capabilities, there's no compelling reason to spend $1200 for new features because there aren't any.

Apply that principle to the G3X Touch platform: The sensors and actuators are all external, and unaffected by the displays; The set of features we get is almost exclusively a matter for software. Pick any feature you think is missing, and chances are a software upgrade would fix it. They have enough CPU and GPU grunt to display full screen synthetic vision at a decent frame rate with transparent overlays. Screen resolution and brightness could be higher but meets/exceeds the requirements of the application.

So what would a "G4X" offer that a G3X can't do? Slightly bigger and brighter display with no bezel? Incrementally better responsiveness? That'd be nice, but it's not $12k-worth-of-new-displays nice.

Unless and until we're at a point where the G3X is running out of CPU, RAM or flash, or the component supply chain is aging out, there's not much need to upgrade it. It's an embedded real-time system. It has one job. It does that job with aplomb, and remains competitive with the best the market has on offer. It's a small market, R&D costs take a long time to recoup, "sweating the asset" until people stop buying it is a sensible business strategy.

I'm not saying there won't be or shouldn't be upgrades. I'm saying the product features that'll be driving upgrades are, on the whole, pretty minor.

G4X, when it arrives, will be an upgrade like the ones you get for your phone: Replacing one black rectangle for another slightly different black rectangle which offers more or less the same capabilities, but at a higher cost.

- mark

Mark, the core of your argument is that the sensors and actuators are external, so the displays are just rendering data and any missing feature is a software fix away. But that misunderstands the G3X architecture. The GDU isn't a monitor, it's the flight computer. It runs the navigation logic, processes sensor data from the GSU/GAD/GEA, renders synthetic vision, manages connectivity, and handles touch input. Every limitation we're discussing lives inside that 2014 box.

So let's test "a software upgrade would fix it." PRIME's capacitive multitouch lets you brace your palm on the glass while making precise inputs. Garmin designed hand stabilization as a headline feature specifically because touch in turbulence matters. The G3X's infrared touch registers anything that breaks the beam. You can't software-patch palm rejection onto IR hardware. Same story with connectivity: every G3X owner with multiple displays dreads the 28-day SD card shuffle, and PRIME solves it with PlaneSync over WiFi/LTE on the ramp. The G3X has 2013-era radios that people disable to avoid in-flight reboots.

You say the G3X has enough grunt for synthetic vision at a decent frame rate. "Decent" is doing a lot of work in a safety-critical system. PRIME's multi-core processors, quadrupled memory, and gigabit bus exist because when you lose an engine on departure you want instant redraws and your emergency return approach loading now, not a spinner.

The dev velocity piece matters too. When you're building on silicon where the chip manufacturer likely stopped support 8 years ago, every new feature has to fight for scraps of CPU and memory. Modern hardware gives you budget. Each new capability has headroom, and engineers aren't reverse-engineering workarounds for deprecated HW platform.

Side note: nobody has published a teardown of a GDU 460 board, so we're all speculating about the actual silicon. If anyone has a dead unit collecting dust, I'll happily crack it open and share what's on the board. Reading chip markings on hardware you own is perfectly legal, just not worth sacrificing a flying unit for.
 
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the new upgrade is a different form factor, will not fit in existing panel cutout, will not be backward compatible with the G3X touch system,
I would love to have a better understanding of why Garmin does this. They basically gifted upgrade business (including mine) to Avidyne when they did this with the 430/530. Perhaps they want to create more install business for distributors?

Over the air updates via wifi
What could go wrong? 🤣
 
I have never seen any Garmin hardware upgrade that is truly "plug and play". In fact I only know of a few follow-on devices that use the same avionic stack height, but never the same tray, connectors, pinouts or circuit numbers. Some of their audio panels are close and the base features might work with their slide in, but there seems to always be some different feature requiring re-pinning or harnessing to take advantage of. Based on what they did with the G500/600 to G500Txi/G600Txi upgrade I would guess that a G3X to G4X upgrade path will be a lot of work with different panel cut outs. Garmin has never been as concerned with making things lower-labor or backwards compatible as they have been about dealer revenue streams and planned obsolescence.
 
And I would think the upgrade would be as much about the interfaces as the display itself. Again, compare the G3XT to G500Txi interfaces. G3XT, no HSDB. G500Txi, no CANbus. The current periperal LRU landscape at Garmin aviation makes heavy use of both, so any sensible upgrade to displays would accomodate.
 
I’ve been reluctant to jump in to this discussion, but I’m waiting for the shop to warm up and some epoxy to cure…..

The OP makes some statements of “Evidence” and then he draws conclusions from them - but I could draw alternative conclusions from each one of them - maybe darker conclusions, but logical ones nevertheless. The assumption is that Garmin is concerned mostly about serving the E-AB customers what they want, when in fact, Garmin might be mostly concerned with maximizing their sales and profits.

First off, according to Garmin, their aviation division accounts to about 16% of their total sales - not something huge, not something they want to give up - but probably not existential. That’s important to remember - Garmin is not primarily an aviation company, and the “C-Suite” isn’t necessarily aviation-centric in their decision making. They are likely looking more at the total bottom line. Never assume that they care about us.

Second…if they make a product that the OP wants (I admit to not being very familiar with Garmin’s certified stuff…PRIME you called it?), if it cots more than the E-AB stuff, why would they give the consumer the same features in a cheaper product? You want it, they have it, go buy it! Now let me be clear - I don’t like that, I don’t support it….but you have to look at things from alternative points of view, even if you don’t like them.

We have two Garmin G3X airplanes in our fleet, and I fly them regularly. The Rocket project also has G3X. They do way more than I need them to do. It’s kind of like MS Word - as a writer and editor, I use about 5% of what the software is capable of - the rest is just along for the ride as far as I am concerned. The G3X has dang near every capability I can think of needing except auto-throttles, and in my world of aviation media, interviewing Garmin folks, I am convinced that Garmin’s lawyers are never going to allow their software guys to mess with your expensive Lycoming.

As for better resolution, faster speeds, etc…..I have one airplane (RV-8) with twenty-year-old GRT screens, and it is my “go to” traveling machine if I need range, speed and carrying capability. The EFIS works just great, does everything I need, and yup - resolution is much lower and the maps aren’t as good as the Garmin (by a long shot)….but I have ForeFlight on my iPad for that. Do I miss the Garmin user interface when I fly the GRT? Yes…yes I do. But the old GRT still is far and away better than the steam gauge airplanes I have flown all my life.

The bottom line is that if your requirement is that you absolutely, positively have to have the latest hardware and software, then great - that’s what you want. Wait for it to come out. If you want something that does what you need it to do, then buy one of the many choices that accomplish that goal and go fly today. I know that is an “Old Guy” perspective….so be it. 😉

(Now in terms of obsolecense due to lack of older silicon…..yeah, we can talk! I no longer have 430’s because Garmin no longer has some of the parts to support them. That will definitely hit the G3X market someday - but Garmin gave us about a five-year warning on the 430’s, and I have heard not a peep regarding G3X….yet…..)

OK - gotta go check that resin!

Paul
 
I’ve been reluctant to jump in to this discussion, but I’m waiting for the shop to warm up and some epoxy to cure…..

The OP makes some statements of “Evidence” and then he draws conclusions from them - but I could draw alternative conclusions from each one of them - maybe darker conclusions, but logical ones nevertheless. The assumption is that Garmin is concerned mostly about serving the E-AB customers what they want, when in fact, Garmin might be mostly concerned with maximizing their sales and profits.

First off, according to Garmin, their aviation division accounts to about 16% of their total sales - not something huge, not something they want to give up - but probably not existential. That’s important to remember - Garmin is not primarily an aviation company, and the “C-Suite” isn’t necessarily aviation-centric in their decision making. They are likely looking more at the total bottom line. Never assume that they care about us.

Second…if they make a product that the OP wants (I admit to not being very familiar with Garmin’s certified stuff…PRIME you called it?), if it cots more than the E-AB stuff, why would they give the consumer the same features in a cheaper product? You want it, they have it, go buy it! Now let me be clear - I don’t like that, I don’t support it….but you have to look at things from alternative points of view, even if you don’t like them.

We have to Garmin G3X airplanes in our fleet, and I fly them regularly. The Rocket project also has G3X. They do way more than I need them to do. It’s kind of like MS Word - as a writer and editor, I use about 5% of what the software is capable of - the rest is just along for the ride as far as I am concerned. The G3X has dang near every capability I can think of needing except auto-throttles, and in my world of aviation media, interviewing Garmin folks, I am convinced that Garmin’s lawyers are never going to allow their software guys to mess with your expensive Lycoming.

As for better resolution, faster speeds, etc…..I have one airplane (RV-8) with twenty-year-old GRT screens, and it is my “go to” traveling machine if I need range, speed and carrying capability. The EFIS works just great, does everything I need, and yup - resolution is much lower and the maps aren’t as good as the Garmin (by a long shot)….but I have ForeFlight on my iPad for that. Do I miss the Garmin user interface when I fly the GRT? Yes…yes I do. But the old GRT still is far and away better than the steam gauge airplanes I have flown all my life.

The bottom line is that if your requirement is that you absolutely, positively have to have the latest hardware and software, then great - that’s what you want. Wait for it to come out. If you want something that does what you need it to do, then buy one of the many choices that accomplish that goal and go fly today. I know that is an “Old Guy” perspective….so be it. 😉

(Now in terms of obsolecense due to lack of older silicon…..yeah, we can talk! I no longer have 430’s because Garmin no longer has some of the parts to support them. That will definitely hit the G3X market someday - but Garmin gave us about a five-year earnings on the 430’s, and I have heard not a peep regarding G3X….yet…..)

OK - gotta go check that resin!

Paul
Paul, thanks for taking the time to respond. Our RV-12 build group is a fan of metal magic :)

You're right that aviation is only about 16% of Garmin's revenue. But it's their highest margin business at 75% gross, well above fitness, outdoor, or marine. And within that, experimental isn't valuable for revenue, it's valuable as a proving ground. TeamX explicitly developed features on the G3X that then migrated to certified platforms. We're the beta testers on a faster iteration cycle because pushing an update to experimental doesn't carry the same cert implications as pushing to a fleet of Citations. That's why Garmin invests in experimental even though the unit volume is small.

And I completely agree that if you're flying behind a G3X today, it works and you should go fly. But a lot of people reading this thread are mid-build or planning a panel. "Buy what works today" hits different when your first flight is 18 months out and the next platform could drop at Oshkosh.

On your silicon obsolescence point, the timeline might be shorter than the 430 experience suggests. During COVID, fabs prioritized newer process nodes and deprecated older ones faster than expected, which is a big part of what caused the chip shortage. The same thing is happening now with AI demand consuming fab capacity. The process node the G3X's silicon was built on was probably 40nm or 65nm, and those fabs aren't staying open for Garmin's volume. Garmin doesn't control that timeline. They're dependent on economies of scale from other customers on the same node, and those customers have all moved on. So "haven't heard a peep yet" might not come with the same lead time the 430 got.
 
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I no longer have 430’s because Garmin no longer has some of the parts to support them.
Trolling successful -- this is of course a horrible defamation of my favorite gadget!!! Garmin lacks only the display module!!!! 😄

At least as of a while ago...

Anyway, if Garmin did still stock 430W display modules, I suspect you could still pick up two used, fully functional 430Ws for what Garmin would charge for the repair... 🤑

Meanwhile, hard agree on the cost/benefit glories of old GRT boxes. Not to mention the fantastically unicolor EIS 4000, complete with 1970s badging. I compare that to the gadgets in my old Warrior that I used to happily shoot approaches with, and it just makes me shudder.
 
I have never seen any Garmin hardware upgrade that is truly "plug and play". In fact I only know of a few follow-on devices that use the same avionic stack height, but never the same tray, connectors, pinouts or circuit numbers. Some of their audio panels are close and the base features might work with their slide in, but there seems to always be some different feature requiring re-pinning or harnessing to take advantage of. Based on what they did with the G500/600 to G500Txi/G600Txi upgrade I would guess that a G3X to G4X upgrade path will be a lot of work with different panel cut outs. Garmin has never been as concerned with making things lower-labor or backwards compatible as they have been about dealer revenue streams and planned obsolescence.
GTN 625 to GTNxi was a direct swap out. No news wires, no configuration changes. Of course.....in order to use new and formerly incapable features some configuration changes were necessary but not unlike new features via software changes.
 
Just a few more thoughts, and why I think the G4X will be released this year.

The G3X Touch Certified was released March 2019 at Sun n Fun. I think this was to produce hype and gear up for full production roll out by OSH. I wouldn’t be surprised if the new one will be released next month.

Second, the big change is that HSDB will be added. On par with typical Garmin they want to sell you as much as possible. HSDB will push the sale of the GDL60 for over the air database updates while your airplane sits idle in your hangar. If my G3X had HSDB I would have already installed the GDL60 to do away with the hassle of updates. Powering the plane on and having everything up to date every single time you power it up would be amazing but currently only my GTN is supported.

We all know the resolution and processor will be update to 2026 standards with a smaller bezel. From the sources I’ve heard the form factor will be the same size.
 
Now that we have conflicting reliable inside-source reports, this is squaring up nicely with the same threads from prior years.

One of these years someone will be right about it, including the details like form factor and compatibility. I'm always glad to see advances in aviation products so if it's this year that's awesome. I have enjoyed my G3Xt for a few years now so I don't have a dog in this fight...aside from a good tri-tip sandwich.
 
All good comments. I will re-iterate that egdeltur's insight is insightful.

Re-iterate: true, false, false, true

Regarding HSDB versus RS232 for something like a GNX375 with the "G4X" as a retrofit, a legacy install could use the RS-232 inputs and a new build would use the HSDB. Or a retrofitter could re-run the HSDB if desired, just a few pins to swap and get familiar with Gigaflight cable.

As far as freeing up pins, the G3X configuration pins might be a good candidate....one could set the "Primary PFD", "Secondary PFD" or "MFD" in software instead like other boxes (G500Txi or GI275 as examples). But this also shows the challenge for a Part 23 box...the FAA has to be convinced that a "Primary PFD" software setting won't glitch and remove the Primary PFD and replace it with an MFD or your teenage copilot daughter's SXM playlist, with a very very low probability of failure (the DAL or design assurance level).

Garmin is serious on multi-touch. A colleague pilot and myself spent some time in their turbulence simulator a few weeks ago while doing multi-touch touchscreen tasks with the sim operator barking instructions like a Chicago ARTCC controller on a bad day. Their representation of moderate turbulence is quite accurate. We took about 25 minutes of it and we were a bit frappe'ed at the end. I wobbled out of the sim and asked the Garmin reps who was at the top of the "moderate turbulence leaderboard". They said one of their engineers did an hour and 5 minutes straight. I said "send me back up". Then the other pilot punched me in the arm. o_O

OT: Boxwell Avionics has GNS430 screens and I think he can replace bad ones for experimental installations.

Keep poundin' them rivets. No need to worry about anything else. However, DIYers might want to learn how to fabricate a reliable HSDB connection, for both standard and high density pins.
 
Just a few more thoughts, and why I think the G4X will be released this year.

The G3X Touch Certified was released March 2019 at Sun n Fun. I think this was to produce hype and gear up for full production roll out by OSH. I wouldn’t be surprised if the new one will be released next month.

Second, the big change is that HSDB will be added. On par with typical Garmin they want to sell you as much as possible. HSDB will push the sale of the GDL60 for over the air database updates while your airplane sits idle in your hangar. If my G3X had HSDB I would have already installed the GDL60 to do away with the hassle of updates. Powering the plane on and having everything up to date every single time you power it up would be amazing but currently only my GTN is supported.

We all know the resolution and processor will be update to 2026 standards with a smaller bezel. From the sources I’ve heard the form factor will be the same size.
Don't assume that just because the updated G?X may support HSDB, that it will automatically support the GDL60. There are several things that the certified branch of Garmin has refused to allow the experimental side to support. If there is any doubt whatsoever that the the X team may cannibalize certified sales, most likely it won't happen.

My money would be on that the new generation will have built in support for the stuff that the GDL60 does. Similar to how the G3X never needed to support FlightStream.

Then there is the fact that there is a built in Wifi interface on the G3X Touch that has never been enabled to do anything.
 
Mark, the core of your argument is that the sensors and actuators are external, so the displays are just rendering data and any missing feature is a software fix away. But that misunderstands the G3X architecture. The GDU isn't a monitor, it's the flight computer. It runs the navigation logic, processes sensor data from the GSU/GAD/GEA, renders synthetic vision, manages connectivity, and handles touch input. Every limitation we're discussing lives inside that 2014 box.

I don't misunderstand the G3X architecture at all, and you're misreading my argument.

The core of my argument is that for the features on offer (including every new feature added in software since it was produced) it does the job. It's a real-time embedded system. It doesn't need to follow a cost/performance curve like a cellphone or a laptop.

You can debate whether the frame rate is adequate all you like, but have there been any accidents where 7 fps vs 20 fps was a contributing factor? Of course not.

Missing from this thread: A wish-list of features which (a) can't be implemented in software, (b) are worth $12k worth of display hardware uplifts, and (c) fit Garmin's product strategy for the G3X line. You need all three before new hardware makes a lick of difference to anything.

I'll give you an example: There's no reason why 3D-rendered "Smart Taxi" can't be offered as a software feature on existing units. It isn't, because Garmin has made a decision (actively or passively) to not include that feature in the G3X product. So no amount of hardware upgrades will bring Smart Taxi to the G3X platform)

I'll give you an example of the countercase: When I bought my G3X Touch system in late 2020, it didn't support audible traffic announcements. Then, in a 2022 (?) software upgrade, it started saying, "Traffic, 10 o'clock, same altitude," when it saw ADS-B targets. Software feature, brand new functionality the platform didn't previously support, added because Garmin decided to invest engineering resources into making it happen.

Finally: There's not really any point engaging with my argument, because I'm just some idiot on the internet who knows as much about the platform's product strategy as you do. You don't actually need to persuade me, and it whether or not you think I'm wrong about this makes not one iota of difference to anything.


- mark
 
The core of my argument is that for the features on offer (including every new feature added in software since it was produced) it does the job. It's a real-time embedded system. It doesn't need to follow a cost/performance curve like a cellphone or a laptop.
I'm snipping a particular quote but my response is to your post as a whole. I mostly agree, and I heartily endorse the XKCD reference.

I do think that faster processing, higher framerates, higher resolutions are 100% a valid ask after 12 years of the same tech. Smaller bezel, bigger screen. Faster refresh/responsiveness. More precise (capacitive?) touch. etc, etc. The software features they have added are great and a bonus, but people have been talking about stretching the limits of the hardware for a while now. Garmin doesn't owe us anything, but technology marches forward and I'd love to have a slice of it.

Zero consumer devices are considered good with 12+ years old tech.
 
The question isn't "when will Garmin release a successor to the G3X", the question is "when did/will Garmin kick off a development program to build a successor to the G3X", and the answer is "when they think it was/will be worth the investment". Everything else that's been mentioned in this thread (parts availability, integration with the rest of the product line, competitive landscape, customer demand, opportunity cost) all factors in to that question.
 
Thanks for all the comments everyone. What's been most valuable about this thread is the expertise showing up: testwest sharing firsthand experience in Garmin's turbulence sim, Richard flagging real-world BT stability issues, Brantel noting the WiFi interface that was never enabled, Dugaru confirming the beta tester pipeline from personal experience, Mark pushing back on what's actually hardware-gated vs a product decision. You don't get that kind of insight without putting ideas out there and letting people who know more fill in the gaps.

If you work with this stuff, whether that's embedded hardware, avionics software, supply chain, or just have a panel apart right now, would love to hear what you're seeing/thinking!
 
It's a real-time embedded system.
Sorry for the thread drift. I'm in Dynon camp and know nothing about the G3x. Dynon runs on Linux which is not a real-time system. Not without the PREEMPT_RT.
I asked Chat GPT for clarification and it failed to convince me that the G3x is a real time system.
Does the G3x use a real time operating system (VxWorks, Integrity, ThreadX)?
 
Sorry for the thread drift. I'm in Dynon camp and know nothing about the G3x. Dynon runs on Linux which is not a real-time system. Not without the PREEMPT_RT.
I asked Chat GPT for clarification and it failed to convince me that the G3x is a real time system.
Does the G3x use a real time operating system (VxWorks, Integrity, ThreadX)?
ChatGPT is a terrible source for this, since it doesn't have access to any information except what's already out there on the internet. It's very likely that the G3X is built on some kind of microkernel or RTOS, but it could be a commercial product or it could be something internal.
 
I've heard through a reliable source in the grapevine to wait until the summer to order anything *wink wink, nudge nudge*. It sounds like they're probably going to be announcing a G3X replacement and possibly new IFR navigators and radios sometime after Sun n Fun but before Oshkosh. Fingers crossed
 
I've heard through a reliable source in the grapevine to wait until the summer to order anything *wink wink, nudge nudge*. It sounds like they're probably going to be announcing a G3X replacement and possibly new IFR navigators and radios sometime after Sun n Fun but before Oshkosh. Fingers crossed
There is no way Garmin will be releasing new GDU's, new radios and new IFR navigators this year. They just released the GTR205 a couple years ago and the GTN's are only a few years old.

Unsubstantiated rumours like this don't help anybody looking to buy avionics today. When this prognostication fails to develop, all you've done is delay that persons inevitable decision.

I would advise anybody considering a new avionics purchase, to buy for today, not for what tomorrow might hold.
 
Unsubstantiated rumours like this don't help anybody looking to buy avionics today.

Aww...come on! An anonymous account with zero posts and an 'grapevine' connection isn't credible to you? ;)

I'm betting this isn't the year, but to be perfectly honest I'll be glad to lose this one. I really can't wait for the dust that it's going to kick up around here. We're going to have about 15 people excited about new avionics, but dozens of others complaining about how Garmin also raised the prices and is ruining GA.
 
There is no way Garmin will be releasing new GDU's, new radios and new IFR navigators this year. They just released the GTR205 a couple years ago and the GTN's are only a few years old.

Unsubstantiated rumours like this don't help anybody looking to buy avionics today. When this prognostication fails to develop, all you've done is delay that persons inevitable decision.

I would advise anybody considering a new avionics purchase, to buy for today, not for what tomorrow might hold.
This came directly from the owner of one of the Garmin dealers. I called to price out a G3X system and he told me I should wait until the summer. I'm doubtful about the navigator as well, but I got the impression that there might be a new radio with a smaller form factor.

You're free to call around to the experimental avionics shops to figure out who knows what. I don't see any reason for a shop to delay a sale otherwise.
 
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I guess I will add my 2 cents to the chat..

I am also waiting on the next generation hardware for my RV-10 build. I know for certain if I were to buy a g3x today, a new generation would be released tomorrow. So, yeah.. I am the one holding things up..

These are dates that matter:
Key Release Milestones:
  • Original G3X: Announced July 2009, with systems available shortly after.
  • G3X Touch: Introduced March 25, 2014, featuring a 7-inch touchscreen.
  • G3X Touch 7-inch: Introduced July 23, 2014.
  • Certified G3X Touch: Announced for certified aircraft on March 25, 2019.
It looks like at least the G3X touch is based on the OMAP 4460 which went obsolete in 2013. But are still available to buy in decent quantities and had long term support in at least until 2020. It is a 1.5ghz dual core ARM A9 32-bit processor. The OMAP 4460 seems about right for the vintage of hardware. The certified version very well could be using a newer version of the processor, but is unlikely to be something too much newer given that the firmware appears to be running bare metal (or some internal OS) and TI stopped developing OMAPs a long time ago. I don't believe they ever came out with an ARMv8 OMAP.

With all of that being said, it is not a question of if the hardware would continue to support adding additional features to it. The processor is plenty fast enough and the software is not that complex overall. But the question is, what is the availability of 'new' chips and displays? The internals and the availability are what matter more than the software. Some pieces have to be getting hard for Garmin to source at this point. 12 years from release is a long time in the electronics world.

But companies like to work on schedules and time releases typically for the most impact.. In the case of aviation, according to the airshows..
It looks like Garmin makes their announcements about a week before the airshows. So. If we don't hear something by April 7, it won't be at SunNFun this year.

But.. We can also look at what the forums are titled.

This is the forums from 2025 at SunNFun
9 a.m. GARMIN TEAM X: Tips for Building Your Experimental Panel
9:45 a.m. GPS AND RADIO UPGRADES: What’s Next from GNS™ 430/530?
10:30 a.m. GARMIN AUTOPILOTS EXPLAINED: A Game Changer for Your Aircraft
11:15 a.m. THE GARMIN PILOT™ APP: A Guide To Getting Started
12 p.m. G3X TOUCH™ , GI 275 AND TXi™ : Which Display Is Best for Your Aircraft?
12:45 p.m. ENGINE INSTRUMENTS: What Your Engine Wishes It Could Tell You

The Display forum was titled the same at Airventure. I knew they were not coming out with a new product at SunNFun or Airventure last year by just looking at the forums.

But for 2026 at SunNFun
GPS & Radio Upgrades: What’s Next from the GNS 430/530?
Garmin Team X: Tips for Building Your Experimental Panel
Garmin Autopilots Explained: A Game Changer for Your Aircraft
Getting Started with Garmin Pilot, SmartCharts and More
Which Garmin Flight Display is Best for Your Aircraft?
Understanding Garmin Engine Monitoring Solutions

Why the title change for the displays? Pushing the G3000? Not likely.

Anyways, always a fun time to try to speculate.. We will see..
I'm ready to buy as soon as they come out with the next one. If not this year, it will be soon.
The parts can't hold out forever, and they have to keep some inventory around for inevitable repairs.

--Dan Lykowski
 
This came directly from the owner of one of the Garmin dealers. I called to price out a G3X system and he told me I should wait until the summer. I'm doubtful about the navigator as well, but I got the impression that there might be a new radio with a smaller form factor.

You're free to call around to the experimental avionics shops to figure out who knows what. I don't see any reason for a shop to delay a sale otherwise.
There is no way Garmin will be releasing new GDU's, new radios and new IFR navigators this year. They just released the GTR205 a couple years ago and the GTN's are only a few years old.

Unsubstantiated rumours like this don't help anybody looking to buy avionics today. When this prognostication fails to develop, all you've done is delay that persons inevitable decision.

I would advise anybody considering a new avionics purchase, to buy for today, not for what tomorrow might hold.
This is pretty much exactly what happened to me in early 2014 (12y ago!). Went to order legacy G3X and got subtly told to cool my jets for a few weeks.

Anyone building an airplane is big and ugly enough to make their own decisions. I doubt forum rumor posts are influencing people’s decisions too much. More likely that people refuse to stump up for 12y old hardware while other manufacturers have introduced multiple hardware upgrades in the same time.
The longer it goes on, the more likely people are to delay purchasing or purchase another brand.
There’s no way I’d buy a GDU460 now. It was a line ball decision for my 10 in 2021 let alone 5y later.
I’m sure that whatever and whenever it comes it’ll be good though.
 
When I picked up my panel at SteinAir three weeks ago I asked when the G4x would be announced (Since I just picked up my G3X based version. Nick looked at his watch and said he thought it would be announced “about 10:00 Monday morning”.

I fully expect to hear about it at Airventure this year.
 
Vans is quoting 30 weeks because they have no idea how to build a wiring harness without the experience have lost over the past few years.

My prediction is that they will come back to Stein begging them to help!
 
Vans is quoting 30 weeks because they have no idea how to build a wiring harness without the experience have lost over the past few years.

My prediction is that they will come back to Stein begging them to help!
Unless this is related to the RV12, it should have no bearing on other models. I have never used VANS wiring harness and I don't think this will have any affect on the new Garmin gear. As I understand it, the EIS and the Auto pilot will remain the same for the new system
 
Vans is quoting 30 weeks because they have no idea how to build a wiring harness without the experience have lost over the past few years.

My prediction is that they will come back to Stein begging them to help!
When did they in-house from Stein? The lead time changed in Jan
 
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