FYI Here's a New Maintenance Issue...

[339A]

I went to pull the nose wheel pant off of 339A today to do a maintenance/tire pressure check. In doing so I heard the "tink" sound of metal hitting the hangar floor. What was that I wondered, well soon enough I see the following:

This one is from the left/port/driver/pilots side of the nose wheel pant.

This one is the right/starboard/passenger/co-pilots side of the nose wheel pant. While it hasn't completely broke it's close.

I suppose after 19 years, 2,100 hours, 1,125 Flights and 2,416 Landings I can't really complain. BUT after checking on the Vans store I can no longer purchase the U-813C-L/R brackets that came with this kit. Van has changed the design and no longer makes those. The new design is going to require all new holes in the wheel pants and re-alignment work. My guess is the new design was intended to keep this from happening.

Curious how many others with this style of bracket have seen this problem? Has anyone with the new style had any issues and some advice/tricks on how to mount them? They are now the U-713C-L/R brackets.

 

[Full Throttle]

I went to pull the nose wheel pant off of 339A today to do a maintenance/tire pressure check. In doing so I heard the "tink" sound of metal hitting the hangar floor. What was that I wondered, well soon enough I see the following:

This one is from the left/port/driver/pilots side of the nose wheel pant.

This one is the right/starboard/passenger/co-pilots side of the nose wheel pant. While it hasn't completely broke it's close.

I suppose after 19 years, 2,100 hours, 1,125 Flights and 2,416 Landings I can't really complain. BUT after checking on the Vans store I can no longer purchase the U-813C-L/R brackets that came with this kit. Van has changed the design and no longer makes those. The new design is going to require all new holes in the wheel pants and re-alignment work. My guess is the new design was intended to keep this from happening.

Curious how many others with this style of bracket have seen this problem? Has anyone with the new style had any issues and some advice/tricks on how to mount them? They are now the U-713C-L/R brackets.

I assume you take off and land each flight?

 

[339A]

I assume you take off and land each flight?

Lot's of TNG's in there. One has to practice you know, ILS, LPV, crosswinds, sideslips, power-off, you name it. You do practice, right?

 

[RV7 To Go]

I think I would just get some 1/16" aluminum from Spruce and make a couple new ones. The RS bracket is a good template. Not too difficult a project and saves the hassle of the new brackets. Should be good for another 19 years.

 

[339A]

I think I would just get some 1/16" aluminum from Spruce and make a couple new ones. The RS bracket is a good template. Not too difficult a project and saves the hassle of the new brackets. Should be good for another 19 years.

I'm going to give that a try first. The piece is bent at odd angles, which could prove difficult to match perfect. I have lots of aluminum and it's far cheaper than the $33.25 each Vans wants for the new ones.

 

[Roadjunkie1]

I think I would just get some 1/16" aluminum from Spruce and make a couple new ones. The RS bracket is a good template. Not too difficult a project and saves the hassle of the new brackets. Should be good for another 19 years.

The bends to make new brackets in your shop are not complicated. If you even have a simple metal brake, using the old brackets as templates, you should be able to get the holes in the new brackets to line up with the old holes in the wheel pants. Piece of cake!

 

[gasman]

That is a big + of owning an RV6(A)..... the plans show you how to make any part even if Van's no longer supports that product or is gone.
The newer kits don't that advantage.

 

[JonJay]

Good catch. You took the wheel pant off to check your tire pressure? Say it isn’t so!
Teasing - lots of posts with folks who want an easy way to check tire pressure and lose the opportunity to check out what’s going on under those pants. It takes, like five minutes….

 

[339A]

Good catch. You took the wheel pant off to check your tire pressure? Say it isn’t so!
Teasing - lots of posts with folks who want an easy way to check tire pressure and lose the opportunity to check out what’s going on under those pants. It takes, like five minutes….

Exactly, it's the reason I never added a hole to check it. They're easy to remove and it forces you to inspect the nose wheel/hardware while off. The wheel pants, tires & wheels take so much abuse...

 

[erich weaver]

I went to pull the nose wheel pant off of 339A today to do a maintenance/tire pressure check. In doing so I heard the "tink" sound of metal hitting the hangar floor. What was that I wondered, well soon enough I see the following:

This one is from the left/port/driver/pilots side of the nose wheel pant.

This one is the right/starboard/passenger/co-pilots side of the nose wheel pant. While it hasn't completely broke it's close.

I suppose after 19 years, 2,100 hours, 1,125 Flights and 2,416 Landings I can't really complain. BUT after checking on the Vans store I can no longer purchase the U-813C-L/R brackets that came with this kit. Van has changed the design and no longer makes those. The new design is going to require all new holes in the wheel pants and re-alignment work. My guess is the new design was intended to keep this from happening.

Curious how many others with this style of bracket have seen this problem? Has anyone with the new style had any issues and some advice/tricks on how to mount them? They are now the U-713C-L/R brackets.

I had the same problem a few years back. Have to say, the new style brackets are better.
Here’s my previous thread, perhaps it will help a little.

nose wheel pant bracket

A couple of the brackets that secure the nose wheel pant are broken on my -7A and Im trying to figure out the correct part numbers to order. Vans is closed today, but searching here I found a reference to V-1013C-L and -R. However, I need both front back brackets and I dont think they are...

vansairforce.net

 

[Walt]

Nothing new about broken wheel pant brackets!
Interesting that you remove the screws attaching the bracket to the wheel pant.
I have the same brackets but riveted/floxed to the pant itself, so not removeable.
I remove the 2 front hex bolts and the axle bolt to remove the rear pant.
I will often just remove axel bolt to drop tire down to check air pressure.
(I'm still on the original brackets, so far so good)

 

[Tooch]

I had the same problem with the old brackets on my 7A. I bought the new brackets from Vans and installed them. I had to do some fiberglass work and repaint the pant.

 

[Mel]

If you make new brackets yourself, be sure to lay them out properly so that the bends are "cross grain". Bends in aluminum "with the grain" will break rather easily.

 

[339A]

Nothing new about broken wheel pant brackets!
Interesting that you remove the screws attaching the bracket to the wheel pant.
I have the same brackets but riveted/floxed to the pant itself, so not removeable.
I remove the 2 front hex bolts and the axle bolt to remove the rear pant.
I will often just remove axel bolt to drop tire down to check air pressure.
(I'm still on the original brackets, so far so good)

Walt, you must have holes in the wheel pant to remove the axle bolt? In order to drop the wheel you'd have to tie or weight the tail down. When I built mine the drawings/instructions had you use screws to attach the brackets to the pant. I remember it being a PITA to get those brackets, wheel pants all lined up and drilled...

 

[339A]

If you make new brackets yourself, be sure to lay them out properly so that the bends are "cross grain". Bends in aluminum "with the grain" will break rather easily.

I hadn't considered that one Mel, Thanks! I don't have a bending brake and trying to match the odd angles could be a trick. Probably be more frustrating trying to bend my own than spending the money and going with new style brackets. I could use the old bracket on one side while I fit the new one on the other to keep the wheel pant symmetry. It will mean fiberglass work and paint I no longer have...

 

[Walt]

Walt, you must have holes in the wheel pant to remove the axle bolt? In order to drop the wheel you'd have to tie or weight the tail down. When I built mine the drawings/instructions had you use screws to attach the brackets to the pant. I remember it being a PITA to get those brackets, wheel pants all lined up and drilled...

Yes that is correct, without a hole to access the axel bolt to tighten it you’re pretty well screwed.
If you don’t already have ‘new’ style front axel I strongly encourage you to upgrade. I use the Beringer but Grove and Matco both offer a better axel solution.

 

[Ironflight]

Hey Scott - if you’ve gone that many hours without ever having to do a fiberglass or paint repair on your wheel plants, you’re my new hero!!

Like Walt, I haven’t seen a bracket mounted with screws/nutplates to the pant. Every one I have built has the brackets riveted to the pant with four AD4 rivets. It sort of looks like your brackets are horizontal. All ours are vertical - so you reach in from the front with a ratcheting combination wrench to take the bolt out, and the pant comes off (after taking the two inboard screws of, of course). Takes a minute. Add two minutes to take the front half of the pant off to get full access to the tire/brake.

If you make your own bracket, I’d be willing to bet there’s an EAA chapter or another RV owner on the Front Range somewhere with a bending brake!

Paul

 

[339A]

Yes that is correct, without a hole to access the axel bolt to tighten it you’re pretty well screwed.
If you don’t already have ‘new’ style front axel I strongly encourage you to upgrade. I use the Beringer but Grove and Matco both offer a better axel solution.

View attachment 77231

Walt you know what, now when I think back about 23 years or so, I decided to use the screws instead... pretty sure it was a debate back then on the Yahoo Groups at the time. Somehow it seemed easier/cleaner for removing the wheel pant and checking the tire, than the setup which is actually per the plans, the way you have it.

Ahh well, either way I go, I am fixing something. I upgraded to the new fork and went with the sealed bearings way back, when Vans came out with that...

 

[339A]

Hey Scott - if you’ve gone that many hours without ever having to do a fiberglass or paint repair on your wheel plants, you’re my new hero!!

Like Walt, I haven’t seen a bracket mounted with screws/nutplates to the pant. Every one I have built has the brackets riveted to the pant with four AD4 rivets. It sort of looks like your brackets are horizontal. All ours are vertical - so you reach in from the front with a ratcheting combination wrench to take the bolt out, and the pant comes off (after taking the two inboard screws of, of course). Takes a minute. Add two minutes to take the front half of the pant off to get full access to the tire/brake.

If you make your own bracket, I’d be willing to bet there’s an EAA chapter or another RV owner on the Front Range somewhere with a bending brake!

Paul

Hi Paul,

Just superior piloting technique! just kidding... you're correct they have held up really well considering the abuse the landing gear takes as a whole. Not that I have ever abused my landing gear.

I know there's a couple brakes out at the airport. It sure would be easier if Vans still made them or maybe some nice person would make them for me.

Regards

 

[Pilot8]

I think I would just get some 1/16" aluminum from Spruce and make a couple new ones. The RS bracket is a good template. Not too difficult a project and saves the hassle of the new brackets. Should be good for another 19 years.

You can get the bend angles and dimensions by asking for the manufacturing drawing from Vans. The bend radius for 0.063 is 3t-5t. With a little care in a sheet metal break you can get very close to the original part.

 

[Pilot8]

I went to pull the nose wheel pant off of 339A today to do a maintenance/tire pressure check. In doing so I heard the "tink" sound of metal hitting the hangar floor. What was that I wondered, well soon enough I see the following:

This one is from the left/port/driver/pilots side of the nose wheel pant.

This one is the right/starboard/passenger/co-pilots side of the nose wheel pant. While it hasn't completely broke it's close.

I suppose after 19 years, 2,100 hours, 1,125 Flights and 2,416 Landings I can't really complain. BUT after checking on the Vans store I can no longer purchase the U-813C-L/R brackets that came with this kit. Van has changed the design and no longer makes those. The new design is going to require all new holes in the wheel pants and re-alignment work. My guess is the new design was intended to keep this from happening.

Curious how many others with this style of bracket have seen this problem? Has anyone with the new style had any issues and some advice/tricks on how to mount them? They are now the U-713C-L/R brackets.

I recall a third party was selling stainless steel versions at one time- perhaps some are floating around?

 

[339A]

I recall a third party was selling stainless steel versions at one time- perhaps some are floating around?

Well that is interesting. I never heard about those, would be curious to know if they're still around... or who it was.

As for the bending, the brackets have more of a trapezoidal shape to them, if that makes any sense. That is what makes trying to get the shape right more difficult. I'll call Vans Monday to see if I can get the drawing. Thanks!

 

[Roadjunkie1]

Well that is interesting. I never heard about those, would be curious to know if they're still around... or who it was.

As for the bending, the brackets have more of a trapezoidal shape to them, if that makes any sense. That is what makes trying to get the shape right more difficult. I'll call Vans Monday to see if I can get the drawing.

I know there's a couple brakes out at the airport. It sure would be easier if Vans still made them or maybe some nice person would make them for me.

Regards

I have a small maybe 18 inch brake mounted on my bench that I have used a LOT since the day it was bolted to the bench. It doesn't need to be a 6 foot brake. In fact, the smaller the better. Here's one example: www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-bending-brake-39103.html?_br_psugg_q=metal+brake I would not give mine up even though I am long done with building as I use it for many other things. And still find it useful for bending things I am making new on SuzieQ. Everything I bent up was on that 18 incher.

 

[Stevea]

I upgraded my nose wheel pant brackets during construction…..so no field experience using the original design. But I can say this: the new bracket design makes it WAY WAY easier to remove the wheel pant. Best part is NO futzing with having to remove the axel bolt, thus having the front wheel “fall off” the airplane, just to remove the wheel pant. Instead, it’s remove the pant nose cap, followed by removing the two cap screws holding the brackets to the yoke, then slide the wheel pant aft, and done.

If it was me, I’d change to the new brackets. Yes, it involves fiberglass and paint work, but only one time. Actually did this job for a friend, because his original design brackets were cracking.

 

[BoydBirchler]

I would be tempted to make the new brackets out of annealed 4130 or even mild steel. Either would have substantially more fatigue resistance to cracking.

 

[339A]

I upgraded my nose wheel pant brackets during construction…..so no field experience using the original design. But I can say this: the new bracket design makes it WAY WAY easier to remove the wheel pant. Best part is NO futzing with having to remove the axel bolt, thus having the front wheel “fall off” the airplane, just to remove the wheel pant. Instead, it’s remove the pant nose cap, followed by removing the two cap screws holding the brackets to the yoke, then slide the wheel pant aft, and done.

If it was me, I’d change to the new brackets. Yes, it involves fiberglass and paint work, but only one time. Actually did this job for a friend, because his original design brackets were cracking.

I was curious about this. So the bracket goes around the axle bolt washers? I was looking at the new Vans C1 drawing and it's not clear how that goes... almost looks like it still goes through the bracket?

 

[Stevea]

I was curious about this. So the bracket goes around the axle bolt washers? I was looking at the new Vans C1 drawing and it's not clear how that goes... almost looks like it still goes through the bracket?

There is a slot (builder fabricated) that slides over the axel bolt shank. The forward bolt hole in the bracket attaches the pant to the yoke.

Edit: I might have some build pictures on the home pc. Will post them if I find anything useful.

 

[339A]

There is a slot (builder fabricated) that slides over the axel bolt shank. The forward bolt hole in the bracket attaches the pant to the yoke.

Edit: I might have some build pictures on the home pc. Will post them if I find anything useful.

Thanks Steve, in looking closer at the C1 drawing, it looks to me that Vans intent is to have the washer still go over the bracket and torque the whole thing up. That means you would still have to loosen the axle bolt, just not remove the tire, to be able to slide the pant off. This means more wholes in my wheel pant, which I don't really want to add. Decisions...

Edited: But wait there's more!! They actually have you using platenuts to attach the pant to the brackets, just like I did originally. HaHa, so I was right all along, Vans copied my design. Good to know!

 

[Paul Eckenroth]

I had both brackets crack on my RV9A. I advertised on VAF looking for replacement brackets and fortunately found someone who had upgraded to the new brackets while building. It was much easier to mount the replacement brackets than to have to change to the newer style. I also reinforced the replacement brackets to hopefully prevent a reoccurrence of the cracks. The field I fly from is rough turf. The original brackets lasted for 1300 hours.

Paul

 

[Stevea]

Thanks Steve, in looking closer at the C1 drawing, it looks to me that Vans intent is to have the washer still go over the bracket and torque the whole thing up. That means you would still have to loosen the axle bolt, just not remove the tire, to be able to slide the pant off. This means more wholes in my wheel pant, which I don't really want to add. Decisions...

Edited: But wait there's more!! They actually have you using platenuts to attach the pant to the brackets, just like I did originally. HaHa, so I was right all along, Vans copied my design. Good to know!

Almost. Forgot to mention there is a washer (OD same as the slot width, thickness a few thousandths thicker than the bracket) that goes under the washer shown in that C1 drawing view. Sooooo, the axel bolt doesn’t need to be loosened to allow the bracket to slide out.

Would help if drawing C1 had an exploded isometric view showing all the hardware bits…..but it doesn’t.

 

[sf3543]

I went to pull the nose wheel pant off of 339A today to do a maintenance/tire pressure check. In doing so I heard the "tink" sound of metal hitting the hangar floor. What was that I wondered, well soon enough I see the following:

This one is from the left/port/driver/pilots side of the nose wheel pant.

This one is the right/starboard/passenger/co-pilots side of the nose wheel pant. While it hasn't completely broke it's close.

I suppose after 19 years, 2,100 hours, 1,125 Flights and 2,416 Landings I can't really complain. BUT after checking on the Vans store I can no longer purchase the U-813C-L/R brackets that came with this kit. Van has changed the design and no longer makes those. The new design is going to require all new holes in the wheel pants and re-alignment work. My guess is the new design was intended to keep this from happening.

Curious how many others with this style of bracket have seen this problem? Has anyone with the new style had any issues and some advice/tricks on how to mount them? They are now the U-713C-L/R brackets.

To replicate this part is very easy.
Get a piece of poster board a little bigger than the part.
Bend it around at every angle against the part and trace it with a pencil
Once you flatten it back out you have the creases from each bend for the angles.
Cut it out and trace it on your aluminum, cut and bend
Repeat with the opposing piece fro the other side.
No need for drawings, etc.

 

[339A]

Almost. Forgot to mention there is a washer (OD same as the slot width, thickness a few thousandths thicker than the bracket) that goes under the washer shown in that C1 drawing view. Sooooo, the axel bolt doesn’t need to be loosened to allow the bracket to slide out.

Would help if drawing C1 had an exploded isometric view showing all the hardware bits…..but it doesn’t.

I see it in the exploded view now, thanks for pointing that out. Those Vans guys are tricky! Still think I will give making new brackets a shot first, saves me from having to do fiberglass/paint work.

 

[339A]

To replicate this part is very easy.
Get a piece of poster board a little bigger than the part.
Bend it around at every angle against the part and trace it with a pencil
Once you flatten it back out you have the creases from each bend for the angles.
Cut it out and trace it on your aluminum, cut and bend
Repeat with the opposing piece fro the other side.
No need for drawings, etc.

This works, great tip! I found someone with a small brake out at the airport. I will try to fab this up on Tuesday and post back here with my results.

Gotta love the tribe knowledge here on the Forums. Thanks!

Regards,

 

[rockwoodrv9]

This works, great tip! I found someone with a small brake out at the airport. I will try to fab this up on Tuesday and post back here with my results.

Gotta love the tribe knowledge here on the Forums. Thanks!

Regards,

Scott,
If you cant get them made let me know. Somewhere I have an extra set - if I can find them!!

 

[339A]

Thought I would give a quick update on my bracket dilemma...

Thanks to the tip from Steve, I made some templates with the help of my crafty wife, which came out great. I then proceeded to fab up a couple new brackets. Made sure I had the bends perpendicular to the grain. I wound up just using a vice and some vice grip sheet metal pliers. (A piece of wood and mallet were involved also) Worked out great.

New bracket, template and old brackets.

Mounted back on fork after lining everything up.

After a closer inspection, I found that the front brackets have started to crack as well. Those can still be had from Vans and are on the way. Glad I went this route, wasn't that hard to make even with the odd bends. No fiberglass or paint work. The template made it simple. I did some minor tweaking , but they were pretty close.

Thanks to everyone who replied and for following along.

 

[Walt]

Good job on the brackets!
I still suggest you leave the brackets attached to the wheel pant and make holes for the axel bolt if you don't already have them.
The only 'downside' to doing it this way is you have to raise the nose to remove the tire/pant.
The upside is you don't have to worry about trying to lineup the brackets with the pant and you can properly torque the axel and allen bolts without worrying about alignment, you don't have to bend/stretch the pant to get it over the brackets (I've seen pants split across the top join line from too much force).
With this method you just raise the nose, remove the axel bolt and drop the wheel down,

 

[339A]

Good job on the brackets!
I still suggest you leave the brackets attached to the wheel pant and make holes for the axel bolt if you don't already have them.
The only 'downside' to doing it this way is you have to raise the nose to remove the tire/pant.
The upside is you don't have to worry about trying to lineup the brackets with the pant and you can properly torque the axel and allen bolts without worrying about alignment, you don't have to bend/stretch the pant to get it over the brackets (I've seen pants split across the top join line from too much force).
With this method you just raise the nose, remove the axel bolt and drop the wheel down,

Thanks Walt,

After comparing the C1 drawing that came with my kit (Y2K) and the current revision I'm somewhat confused as to what Vans would have you do now. It's clear that the original idea was for the installation to be done the way you have it. I know that this was a debate on the Yahoo Groups at the time and it's the reason I made mine removable.
But, the new C1 has the builder use plate nuts and screws to attach the pant. (same as I have it) As others have said, it can be removed by just pulling the allen bolts and sliding it backwards. So... which is it? It would be nice if someone from Vans (maybe Scott) would chime in, to give an explanation of Vans intent. Clearly you wouldn't need the plate nuts and screws, if you're intent is to remove the allen bolts and slide the pant off... don't really need both, yet that is what the drawing seems to show. Anyhow, just curious.

I will keep removing mine the way I have, still seems like less of a hassle. I would have to get out the sand bags, saw horse, weight the tail down, remove the axle bolt etc. then I'd only be checking the tire. Reverse the whole procedure and re-torque the axle bolt.

I suppose the wheel pant could break at some point, but it's just not that difficult to stretch it around the brackets.

Regards and Happy New Year!