Flight following protocol

[erich weaver]

Dumbass question, but I’m asking anyway. What is the proper way to request VFR flight following when your planned route is not direct and has a few dog legs in it? Do you just say your final destination and then “via x and y” ? I have always just gone direct previously.
Thanks.

 

[DHeal]

I typically state my destination and provide a couple of key "via" waypoints if not direct. BTW, always be sure to cancel your FF with ATC and receive ATC's acknowledgment of your FF cancelation -- otherwise ATC may initiate "lost aircraft" procedures to determine the fate of your flight.

 

[Majorpayne317641]

X Center NXX request…
NXX Go with your request…
NXX is X miles SW of airport X at 3,500ft requesting VFR flight following to KXXX via Point XYZ at 3,500ft we are a Experimental RV-8A.
They will issue you squawk, you ident they pass you altimeter and tell you maintain VFR, altitude your discretion.

OR

You tell them the airport you are flying to and say you will fly N/S/E/W for so many miles prior to your destination. Trucker comm works too.

 

[Robin8er]

They don’t generally care too much. If they want to know, they will ask what your intended route is. I wouldn’t bother telling them the route if the radio is busy.

 

[FL Flier]

“We’re not planning direct - do you want our intended route?”

 

[BobTurner]

X Center NXX request…
NXX Go with your request…
NXX is X miles SW of airport X at 3,500ft requesting VFR flight following to KXXX via Point XYZ at 3,500ft we are a Experimental RV-8A.
They will issue you squawk, you ident they pass you altimeter and tell you maintain VFR, altitude your discretion.

OR

You tell them the airport you are flying to and say you will fly N/S/E/W for so many miles prior to your destination. Trucker comm works too.

Just so you know, some controllers hate the word "request". It's not in their handbook, and of course you have a request, why else would you be calling them? Just tell them who you are (N48HT, RV10 slash uniform), where you are (5 miles southwest of Tracy, VFR at 3 thousand 5 hundred), and what you want (request flight following to Red Bluff). If you have the local altimeter setting throw that in (we have information Victor at Stockton). Do not ident unless asked to do so. I generally advise them of altitude changes but not small course changes unless they request them.

 

[Majorpayne317641]

Just so you know, some controllers hate the word "request". It's not in their handbook, and of course you have a request, why else would you be calling them? Just tell them who you are (N48HT, RV10 slash uniform), where you are (5 miles southwest of Tracy, VFR at 3 thousand 5 hundred), and what you want (request flight following to Red Bluff). If you have the local altimeter setting throw that in (we have information Victor at Stockton). Do not ident unless asked to do so. I generally advise them of altitude changes but not small course changes unless they request them.

Very true, but if I just start rattling off this entire sentence they will just ask me to repeat it again. I can only be as efficient as the guy on the other end. That initial call is just to get their attention. I know it’s probably not in the JO 7110 phraseology.

Sorry I forgot to add you ident when they ask you to ident which is almost always in my area with military controllers.

 

[BobTurner]

Very true, but if I just start rattling off this entire sentence they will just ask me to repeat it again. I can only be as efficient as the guy on the other end. That initial call is just to get their attention. I know it’s probably not in the JO 7110 phraseology.

Sorry I forgot to add you ident when they ask you to ident which is almost always in my area with military controllers.

I hear you. If you want attention, just say your call sign and "over". In my local area we have at least one sensitive controller, and when someone calls up with "request" everyone on frequency is subject to a 30 second tongue lashing about radio usage. Others don't seem to care so much, or are too busy to say so.

 

[blueflyer]

Just so you know, some controllers hate the word "request". It's not in their handbook, and of course you have a request, why else would you be calling them? Just tell them who you are (N48HT, RV10 slash uniform), where you are (5 miles southwest of Tracy, VFR at 3 thousand 5 hundred), and what you want (request flight following to Red Bluff). If you have the local altimeter setting throw that in (we have information Victor at Stockton). Do not ident unless asked to do so. I generally advise them of altitude changes but not small course changes unless they request them.

I do this everywhere I go. I don't have to repeat my intentions, and its the way I was taught as a student pilot.

 

[N8DAV8R]

Opposing Bases is a great podcast. Entertaining to listen to, and gives tons of controller insight on questions like this.

There have been enough examples given of ways to skin this cat. Most controllers will just be happy that you have volunteered to be in the system and they can talk to you. Use your judgement with respect to how busy the radio is and what you include in the initial call. Stating the information in the order they enter it is typically more helpful than anything else you can do, but unfortunately that is not consistent across all facilities and systems. There isn't really a 'perfect way'.

 

[LISRAREF]

As a enroute controller, I'd rather you call up and say your callsign and request or callsign and wait for me to acknowledge. As soon as I acknowledge, "N1234 is XX miles west of JFK at 7,500, We are a RV-10. requesting flight following to LNS." I only need a callsign, type, and destination for basic flight following. If you are near a class B or C, some people will ask how you are going to navigate to find out if we need to coordinate or hand you off through that approach. Just my viewpoint as an enroute controller.

 

[Biggiesauls]

"Xxx center, n761gs with VFR request". Has always worked for me. Usually I get it on the ground in our Class D with ground controller. Win, win

 

[kswanson]

center. N1234, VFR request.
center will respond with probably “N1234 say request”

Then give them the 3W’s No more, no less. (Who are you - N1234 Vans RV6, Where are you - 10 miles south XYZ 9500, What you want - Request VFR flight following to Airport Identifier) No sense in clogging up the airwaves with unnecessary information.

Keep radio chatter simple, short and direct. All you care about is the squawk code. Let them worry about the behind the senses work. If they want/need more information, they will ask when time presents itself.

 

[Walt]

What Bob said above...
Why bother saying 'request', you wouldn't be calling them if you didn't want something.
Make initial contact then when they get back to you tell them what you want.

 

[Cth6]

Removed original response as I was incorrect. Don’t want to cause misinformation.

 

[Walt]

File a VFR flight plan. When you ask for FF, they will see the flight plan and know the route you plan to use and your initial cruise alt. Makes the interaction simple. I use this when I am flying longer XCs where there are restricted areas or long water crossings.

Flying to Triple Tree (SC00) from Orlando there are a few restricted areas between that prevent a direct flight. When I checked in with departure to pick up FF to SC00, they gave me a squawk and cleared me direct to the 3rd waypoint in the flight plan as they controlled the airspace and knew the areas were cold during my transition. Same thing happened when I transitioned to Jax center. Direct destination. I didn't even need to ask for it.

I tend to file an IFR flt plan (don't even know how to file a VFR plan), but just tell the controllers I prefer to remain VFR with flight following.
Cuts down on radio chatter. The nice thing is you can Usually pick up the IFR clearance at any point then if you need it.

 

[jcarne]

I hear you. If you want attention, just say your call sign and "over". In my local area we have at least one sensitive controller, and when someone calls up with "request" everyone on frequency is subject to a 30 second tongue lashing about radio usage. Others don't seem to care so much, or are too busy to say so.

I do this everywhere I go. I don't have to repeat my intentions, and its the way I was taught as a student pilot.

What Bob said above...
Why bother saying 'request', you wouldn't be calling them if you didn't want something.
Make initial contact then when they get back to you tell them what you want.

Must be a regional thing. If I don't say request first I very very routinely have to repeat myself. On an Opposing Bases podcast they said some controllers like the request and some don't. Many do because they have other things off frequency they are doing. I now always start with request. See post 11

 

[Amadeus]

File a VFR flight plan. When you ask for FF, they will see the flight plan and know the route you plan to use and your initial cruise alt.

I have filed a VFR flight plan a few times and each time have been told by ATC that they cannot see the planned route, only the destination, and end up giving them the waypoints over the radio anyway. Therefore the only filed flights I do are IFR flight plans; been a waste of time to file VFR in my experience.

 

[noahhl]

File a VFR flight plan. When you ask for FF, they will see the flight plan and know the route you plan to use and your initial cruise alt. Makes the interaction simple. I use this when I am flying longer XCs where there are restricted areas or long water crossings.

Flying to Triple Tree (SC00) from Orlando there are a few restricted areas between that prevent a direct flight. When I checked in with departure to pick up FF to SC00, they gave me a squawk and cleared me direct to the 3rd waypoint in the flight plan as they controlled the airspace and knew the areas were cold during my transition. Same thing happened when I transitioned to Jax center. Direct destination. I didn't even need to ask for it.

If you truly file a VFR flight plan, ATC will *not* see it in their system -- those go to flight service, and it would take a controller calling FSS on the phone to get the route (which they aren't going to do).

You can do as Walt said and file an IFR flight plan and then ask to amend it to VFR; you can even file it w/ a VFR altitude to suggest that's what you're going to do (if your EFB/filing method allows). Be advised -- you need an instrument rating to do this, as there is a letter of interpretation (Goodish 2008) that says filing an IFR flight plan as a non-rated pilot would indicate an intent to violate 61.3(e), even if you never accept the clearance.

A very small technical note -- ATC won't clear a VFR aircraft anywhere (other than into a Bravo, special VFR, or to takeoff/land). What you'll hear is probably 'proceed to..." -- "cleared to X" is IFR clearance phraseology.

 

[JonJay]

“Request”, first time I have heard it irritates controllers. Done it forever as, like others it seems, it is how I was taught. Never had a controller say anything.
Easy to leave it out…..
Keeping in mind, they are here for us, not the other way around. If I accidentally irritated one of them so what. I’m keeping me and others safe as intended.
I’ll drop “request” and see if they pick me up. I have not had good experiences, even waiting for free air, when I just start rattling off my “request”….

 

[PhatRV]

Must be a regional thing. If I don't say request first I very very routinely have to repeat myself. On an Opposing Bases podcast they said some controllers like the request and some don't. Many do because they have other things off frequency they are doing. I now always start with request. See post 11

I fly in SoCal and I hear "request" all the time. It was even taught like this to student pilots. Also in SoCal, sometimes flying midday over Van Nuys, it would be difficult to pick up flight following in the air since ATC is so busy with other commercial traffic.

 

[Thermos]

Opposing Bases is a great podcast. Entertaining to listen to, and gives tons of controller insight on questions like this.

Completely agree, Nate. I've learned a lot from Opposing Bases and it's entertaining too.

The podcast has covered this question in the past and their recommendation when requesting services from an Approach controller is to call up with an ID, location and "request", especially when things are busy, and when acknowledged by the controller make your flight following request and give information in this order - Departure, Destination, Aircraft Type/Equipment and Planned Altitude. According to OB, the TRACON computer system has no way to enter intermediate waypoints for VFR flight following so the best way to handle a non-direct flight plan is to tell the controller the route you intend to fly after you've given them your request info.

For Center, see Post 11.

HTH

Dave

 

[Dad's RV-10]

My opinion is worth what you paid for it but "what you were taught" doesn't make it right.

Like many here, I make my living flying. And many moons ago, I was an active instructor.

Plenty of pilots were taught to say "checking in" or "with you" but that doesn't make it right.

Plenty of pilots say "vacating" an altitude, but that doesn't make it right (you only vacate a runway).

If you are trying to contact a controller for VFR Advisories, "XYZ Approach, RV 12345" is all you need to say.



EDITED: to remove "Experimental"

 

[sprucemoose]

If you are trying to contact a controller for VFR Advisories, "XYZ Approach, Experimental 12345" is all you need to say.

Most of your post is spot on, especially the “that’s what I was taught” part. Most of us were taught things that turned out not to be correct. As a young CFI decades ago I’m ashamed to admit that I probably contributed to this.

However- “Experimental 12345” is not needed or valid when calling center or tracon. Experimental is only for calls to tower, per our operating limitations.

 

[PhatRV]

Most of your post is spot on, especially the “that’s what I was taught” part. Most of us were taught things that turned out not to be correct. As a young CFI decades ago I’m ashamed to admit that I probably contributed to this.

However- “Experimental 12345” is not needed or valid when calling center or tracon. Experimental is only for calls to tower, per our operating limitations.

I was in a webinar with the FAA ATC. The word "Experimental" isn't needed anymore for our RV because the RVs are included in the ICAO. Using "RV8 N38PV" is preferred.

 

[N8DAV8R]

I was in a webinar with the FAA ATC. The word "Experimental" isn't needed anymore for our RV because the RVs are included in the ICAO. Using "RV8 N38PV" is preferred.

Sorry for the thread creep but a little humor...I think the question is answered.

I'm N8183H, my tail number always gets messed up. Experimental tag seems to clear it up.

RV12 8183H - Too many numbers it sounds wrong and gets confused
RV 8183H - To them I become an RV-8 N183H
RV-12 November 8183H is a mouthful.
"Experimental 8183 hotel" works best, occasionally they ask for type and RV-12 is more intuitive at that point.

At this point we just kind of laugh about it when it gets screwed up. I'm used to giving my tail number a couple times.

 

[rocketman1988]

I tend to file an IFR flt plan (don't even know how to file a VFR plan), but just tell the controllers I prefer to remain VFR with flight following.
Cuts down on radio chatter. The nice thing is you can Usually pick up the IFR clearance at any point then if you need it.

You can usually pick up an IFR at any point, if you need it, regardless.

 

[PhatRV]

Sorry for the thread creep but a little humor...I think the question is answered.

I'm N8183H, my tail number always gets messed up. Experimental tag seems to clear it up.

RV12 8183H - Too many numbers it sounds wrong and gets confused
RV 8183H - To them I become an RV-8 N183H
RV-12 November 8183H is a mouthful.
"Experimental 8183 hotel" works best, occasionally they ask for type and RV-12 is more intuitive at that point.

At this point we just kind of laugh about it when it gets screwed up. I'm used to giving my tail number a couple times.

I guess for RV12, you can say "light sports"

 

[Cth6]

If you truly file a VFR flight plan, ATC will *not* see it in their system -- those go to flight service, and it would take a controller calling FSS on the phone to get the route (which they aren't going to do).

You can do as Walt said and file an IFR flight plan and then ask to amend it to VFR; you can even file it w/ a VFR altitude to suggest that's what you're going to do (if your EFB/filing method allows). Be advised -- you need an instrument rating to do this, as there is a letter of interpretation (Goodish 2008) that says filing an IFR flight plan as a non-rated pilot would indicate an intent to violate 61.3(e), even if you never accept the clearance.

A very small technical note -- ATC won't clear a VFR aircraft anywhere (other than into a Bravo, special VFR, or to takeoff/land). What you'll hear is probably 'proceed to..." -- "cleared to X" is IFR clearance phraseology.

Thanks. I stand corrected. Removing that part from my original post to prevent misinformation.

How would the controllers know then? As recent as last month I had a similar thing happen. I need to check and see if Foreflight is sending my flight plans as IFR (I am rated and current). I only do it when I am going on longer trips. Within an hour around here you will not get FF with all of the training going on.

I do agree on filing IFR as much as possible. My RV is currently not IFR certified.

 

[GalinHdz]

As a enroute controller, I'd rather you call up and say your callsign and request or callsign and wait for me to acknowledge. As soon as I acknowledge, "N1234 is XX miles west of JFK at 7,500, We are a RV-10. requesting flight following to LNS." I only need a callsign, type, and destination for basic flight following. If you are near a class B or C, some people will ask how you are going to navigate to find out if we need to coordinate or hand you off through that approach. Just my viewpoint as an enroute controller.

As a retired USAF controller I agree 100%.

 

[AlphaCharlieBravo]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Thanks all for contributing and to the OP for asking the original question.

A

 

[airguy]

RV is currently not IFR certified.

Clarify that statement a bit, if you would. Did you mean YOUR RV is not IFR certified? I fly my 9A IFR all the time. Do you have an older set of oplims that does not allow IFR?

 

[N427EF]

The less "they" know the better

https://johnandmartha.kingschools.com/2010/08/31/our-gunpoint-at-the-airport-ordeal-2/

 

[Cth6]

Thanks. I stand corrected. How would the controllers know then? As recent as last month I had a similar thing happen. I need to check and see if Foreflight is sending my flight plans as IFR (I am rated and current). I only do it when I am going on longer trips. Within an hour around here you will not get FF with all of the training going on.

I do agree on filing IFR as much as possible. RV is currently not IFR certified.

Clarify that statement a bit, if you would. Did you mean YOUR RV is not IFR certified? I fly my 9A IFR all the time. Do you have an older set of oplims that does not allow IFR?

Mine specifically. Operation limits allow it, just no certified navigation devices.