What's new
Van's Air Force

The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!

First time builder and timing of kit orders

R

RNB

Well Known Member
Sponsor
Current lead times for an RV10
Empennage/Tail: 2 weeks
Wing: 16 weeks (4 months)
Fuselage: 26 weeks (6 months)
Finishing: 26 weeks (6 months)
Engine: 14 months- 18 months

This week a new building is being started in which I will build an RV10. I'd like to be consistent in working most days of the week. I am retired. I wonder about how to plan on the timing of kit orders, slow build, and how to manage things. Here are my thoughts.

1. Engine. At a minimum I want to visit folks at OSH/Airventure to decide on ignitions systems, which Lycoming engine to get, versus building up my own at a place like Aerosport power (Are there others?). I plan to attend a Lycoming one week class in Williamsport and would like to otherwise further my ability to handle engine maintenance on my own. Any thoughts on how to best prepare my non technical self to handle engine maintenance?

2. Avionics. I like the idea of a ready to go prebuilt panel from either AFS or Garmin/Stein, BUT again want to better understand things to troubleshoot and manage on my own. I aim to take an EAA avionics class and won't mind taking the time to do everything for the avionics. Maybe the level of complexity and frustration would be too high for a first build and this should be left for a 2nd build.

3. I am ready to order the Emp/Tail kit to start on while my shop gets built. I do not know how long this might take to put together. I've taken the EAA sheet metal class and will work on practice kits while this gets shipped. Any insight on first timers? How much extra time if things are epoxy primed?

4. Wings. Since these take 4 months to come in I think I should order these right away. The new shop should be ready. I should have the Emp/Tail kit completed, and I will be back from OSH with fresh enthusiasm. Reasonable? What are the range of times expected to build this painted or not?

5. Fuselage. If the wings take 4 months and this takes 6 months, there is no way I really think that I could build the wings in 2 months. This is the tricky one with regards to timing. I'd like to not have extended down time from building due to stuff not being here. My new building likely has room to store extra kits, I have a pallet mover, but I would not easily open and inventory the kits right away.

6. Finishing: I am way too ignorant on this one. My best guess right now is to order when the Fuse arrives.

Part of asking this is just to build up a realistic timetable for things and thereby hold myself accountable for progress.
Thank you.
 
This is possibly the hardest part about building right now. I'm building my first 10 right now.

The engine may be the priority. I ordered my standard IO540 from Van's 6mo ago and at the time it said 18+ months. My current estimate is Nov 2026. This means I'll run out of work before it gets here. And based on experience that date might slip.

I agree go ahead and order your empennage and wings now. My empennage took 300hr. My fuselage will take about 600hr but I have a lot of mods in there. My wings are next and I'm expecting 400 to 500hr based on other builders.

It can get overwhelming to get too much too fast especially when you are just starting. My first two kits were almost overwhelming and there is a lot to inventory and store.

But it's also not fun running out of things to work on, so I try to time everything appropriately.

I did the fuselage before the wings which is not the normal order but it does open more paths to completion. Once the fuselage is done you can work on the wings, finishing kit, interior, engine, electrical, and/or avionics in any order.
 
kirkbauer said:
This is possibly the hardest part about building right now. I'm building my first 10 right now.

The engine may be the priority. I ordered my standard IO540 from Van's 6mo ago and at the time it said 18+ months. My current estimate is Nov 2026. This means I'll run out of work before it gets here. And based on experience that date might slip.

I agree go ahead and order your empennage and wings now. My empennage took 300hr. My fuselage will take about 600hr but I have a lot of mods in there. My wings are next and I'm expecting 400 to 500hr based on other builders.

It can get overwhelming to get too much too fast especially when you are just starting. My first two kits were almost overwhelming and there is a lot to inventory and store.

But it's also not fun running out of things to work on, so I try to time everything appropriately.

I did the fuselage before the wings which is not the normal order but it does open more paths to completion. Once the fuselage is done you can work on the wings, finishing kit, interior, engine, electrical, and/or avionics in any order.
Click to expand...
Did your 300 hours include priming?
 
Order early, if you have the money. I ordered my QB fuselage and QB wing kit in February 2022. Last month I received another notice stating they May ship this October. I am out of work, but have decided to rebuild an IO-540 to pass the time, and save a few pelts. Vans kits and new engines take the longest to arrive. Enjoy!
 
If you have the money and the space to store parts order everything except the avionics now.
It’s makes life so much easier in the long run.
And if history is anything to go by, it will be loads cheaper too!
 
Nothing arrives on a deliberate schedule, and some things take years. Nowadays, if the money is there, I'd order all the Van's kits (emp/wing/fuse/finish) at the same time to ship together. The shipping will be very expensive, but cheaper than separate. The exception is that it might be wise to build the empennage kit which ships pretty cheaply but at some point ordering all in a chunk is smarter.

The engine is the other long lead time item. If you don't know what you want then wait until you do; but order as soon as you know. Props have not been a problem.

Avionics are no real issue. Wire and boxes haven't been hard to get. The common advice is wait until you really need it, because something new will come up. The recent audio mixer in the GTR-205 is an example.
 
Agree with @Jonnyb get everything you can as soon as you can, tides turn, things change.

Be careful with props sitting around for extended periods of time, the grease may liquify/become hard some say.

Engines can sit in a climate controlled space for years if the engine has been properly packed with the storage oil.

Like @Jonnyb said h old off on the avionics at least until you're 1 year out from flying. The G3X for example, is due for a hardware refresh.

There's nothing worse than having to wait months for that critical part to show up to continue your build.
 
1. Engine
They don't like storage, but Lyco is jacking prices at unsustainable rates so I would consider buying and filling it with oil before gold is cheaper.
2. Avionics
Several manufacturers offer panel-less panels. Cables all done and components tested. You still do the work, but less tedious work.
3. Emp/Tail kit.
Some times were mentioned. Problem is everyone works differently. Priming adds about 20% time. I foolishly estimated two years. I was a PM and managed people. Easy. Not even close. By the end of the emp, you will have a good idea how long the build will take.
4. Wings
If you have space,buy and store ina climate controlled space.
5. Fuselage
 Same
6. Finishing
Different for everyone because of mods. However, when you think your at 90%, you still have 90% left. Sorry. Just seems that way.
7. Prop
Wait as long as possible. They can only be stored two years.
 
You have picked the hardest RV to build - but shoot fire nothing wrong with that.

I’d add some time to your build estimates. The cabin top, doors and such will eat the schedule. Once you start fiberglass work it never seems to end.

Keeping track and storing inventory can kill schedules as well, it all depends on how much room you have and such. I have a large hangar next to the house, and a full walk out basement for a shop and I find myself going from one to the other looking for obscure parts. The last search was for the nose gear weldment bushings (found in a bag…).

On the engine, get recommendations from other builders and order it two years before you need it. Van’s was always the best deal on engines and props but not sure if that is still the case.

Warning - changing anything will add much more build time than you think. I went with a cold air sump engine and James Cowl and can speak from experience.

On avionics, I’m on the side of building the panel yourself. If you never did one first find a builder that has. Once you build it you will know how to maintain it - and not have to rely on the junior guy at the avionics shop that gets told to “work on that #*!” Experimental.

I suggest start with the tail kit, that way you will have a taste of how long stuff takes to get done. From that you can estimate your order schedule. If you have the room getting all the stuff early never hurts.

Carl
 
Since the other commenters have said most of what I'd have said, there's this to offer. The various avionics vendors have downloadable PDF operator and installation manuals. By studying them, you can assess your own ability to install and wire them. I found that the electrical was fun, generally speaking, and clearly within my abilities to do. Yes, I had to buy some tools, but compared to other tools, these weren't terribly expensive - and I didn't have to pay someone else to make my panel.

Dave
 
I'll put in a slightly dissenting opinion here. I recommend getting the empennage kit and spending at least a month or two working on it before pulling the trigger on the other kits. You'll get a good idea of how fast you work and if you enjoy the process or not. You will need to have someone who can help buck a few hundred rivets as well. It's not possible to build one without at least some help.

As for the kits themselves:

The empennage kit is pretty straight forward. Not a whole lot to decide on other than a couple optional upgrades and if you are going to prime or not.

The wing kit is fairly boring and goes together quickly. This is the first kit where you need to eventually make some decisions: pitot, AP servo, magnetometer, antenna(s), lighting. The tanks really aren't that bad to build .

The fuse kit is the biggest and takes the longest by far. It's also the one where you really need to think ahead and plan what you're going to be installing. The 10 kit doesn't have any instructions (or provisions) for wiring and static line routing or avionics or any other systems other than the airframe. You're on your own to figure out what goes where and how. You ideally want to get as much planned and installed as possible before you put the cabin top on.

The finish kit is more work than it looks and has the most expensive parts in it.

Don't forget about the FWF kit in your budget. Depending on how fast you work it is very possible for the build to go over 2000 hours.
 
As others have said, many of us have PTSD from the past 5 years. Order it all now. Get it all ASAP. Possible exclusions for timing engine and prop.
 
RNB said:
Current lead times for an RV10
Empennage/Tail: 2 weeks
Wing: 16 weeks (4 months)
Fuselage: 26 weeks (6 months)
Finishing: 26 weeks (6 months)
Engine: 14 months- 18 months

This week a new building is being started in which I will build an RV10. I'd like to be consistent in working most days of the week. I am retired. I wonder about how to plan on the timing of kit orders, slow build, and how to manage things. Here are my thoughts.

1. Engine. At a minimum I want to visit folks at OSH/Airventure to decide on ignitions systems, which Lycoming engine to get, versus building up my own at a place like Aerosport power (Are there others?). I plan to attend a Lycoming one week class in Williamsport and would like to otherwise further my ability to handle engine maintenance on my own. Any thoughts on how to best prepare my non technical self to handle engine maintenance?

2. Avionics. I like the idea of a ready to go prebuilt panel from either AFS or Garmin/Stein, BUT again want to better understand things to troubleshoot and manage on my own. I aim to take an EAA avionics class and won't mind taking the time to do everything for the avionics. Maybe the level of complexity and frustration would be too high for a first build and this should be left for a 2nd build.

3. I am ready to order the Emp/Tail kit to start on while my shop gets built. I do not know how long this might take to put together. I've taken the EAA sheet metal class and will work on practice kits while this gets shipped. Any insight on first timers? How much extra time if things are epoxy primed?

4. Wings. Since these take 4 months to come in I think I should order these right away. The new shop should be ready. I should have the Emp/Tail kit completed, and I will be back from OSH with fresh enthusiasm. Reasonable? What are the range of times expected to build this painted or not?

5. Fuselage. If the wings take 4 months and this takes 6 months, there is no way I really think that I could build the wings in 2 months. This is the tricky one with regards to timing. I'd like to not have extended down time from building due to stuff not being here. My new building likely has room to store extra kits, I have a pallet mover, but I would not easily open and inventory the kits right away.

6. Finishing: I am way too ignorant on this one. My best guess right now is to order when the Fuse arrives.

Part of asking this is just to build up a realistic timetable for things and thereby hold myself accountable for progress.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Order everything now because you can’t trust any of the lead times posted by Van’s, they consistently over promise and way undeliver. They claim it is getting better but seems to be worse. Last thing you want is to be finished a kit and nothing to work on. This has happened to me twice and with about 6 months of nothing to work on in between kit arrivals
 
I agree that everything tends to take longer than stated, however I recently ordered my wings and they said July but now they are saying May. We will see.
 
I ordered a new kit every time one arrived. Except for the LCP fiasco this worked pretty well for me.

YMMV.
 
BobTurner said:
News flash!
If you are really committed to pulling the trigger, Vans has just announced: order 3 sub-kits now, 5% discount; order all 4 now, 6% discount. ‘Now’ means within the next 13 days.
Click to expand...

I'd love to take advantage of this but have incomplete knowledge of the options or add on accessories that impact the build.

I need an algorithm for the build that details the timelines and decision making points for everything.
 
RNB said:
I'd love to take advantage of this but have incomplete knowledge of the options or add on accessories that impact the build.

I need an algorithm for the build that details the timelines and decision making points for everything.
Click to expand...
All of the decisions you need to make are on the order forms. Mostly which brand of brakes you want. Everything else has to be ordered separately.
 
Agreed. For the empennage, wing, fuselage, and finishing kits, the only significant decision is quick build or not and whether or not you want Beringer wheels and brakes. There may be a few other small decisions and just say yes to them. The offered savings will far exceed those costs even if you get it wrong.
 
RNB said:
I'd love to take advantage of this but have incomplete knowledge of the options or add on accessories that impact the build.

I need an algorithm for the build that details the timelines and decision making points for everything.
Click to expand...
Algo: Order all kits now. :)

The optional stuff can be added later. Edit: seriously tho, in a 10 you really have few important options at order time. You know your engine, you can't do a tail dragger, and you can't do a tip up vs slider.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top