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Final payment to crating window has grown

bertschb

bertschb

Well Known Member
Friend
In the good 'ol days before LCP's (Laser Cut Parts), I believe kits were crated and ready for pickup/shipping 2-4 weeks after final payment was made. It was 3 weeks for my wing kit. This is no longer the case - most likely due to the laser cut parts issue.

I ordered my RV-14A tail kit in early March. I made final payment on 7/19/23 (the day I was notified) and my kit status page shows the crating window as 8/23-9/29. So, it may not even get crated for another month. More than two months after final payment.

Bit it gets worse! I made final payment on my fuselage on 8/23 (again, the day I was notified) and the crating window is 10/2-11/17. So it's possible my fuselage won't be ready for pickup for three months after I made my final payment.

I understand the newly extended lead times for the RV-14 kits (now May/June 2024) but I'm kind of bummed they are now asking for final payment months before the kits are ready for pickup.
 
Similar situation here - paid my prop balance, been advised it has left Hartzell but zero communication from anyone at Vans at where it actually is now. Very disappointed.
 
rsr3 said:
Similar situation here - paid my prop balance, been advised it has left Hartzell but zero communication from anyone at Vans at where it actually is now. Very disappointed.
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I received my Hartzell prop earlier this month. After making my final payment to Van's, the next correspondence I received was from Hartzell (just shy of one month later), providing the tracking number. Van's appeared to be out of the loop once they gave Hartzell the go-ahead.
 
Payment

This seems to be the way of business now. I don't like it.
I'm fine with 1/2 now and 1/2 when my product ships but demanding full payment months before just doesn't sit well.
 
I made my final payment for my RV-10 empennage kit during Oshkosh, don't remember the exact date. It shipped 8/23/2023 - so just about a month from the day I made final payment. I got the 'crating to shipping delays email' about an hour AFTER I got the shipping notice email, so it was a little confusing, but it is definitely on a truck, headed for Florida (left Nashville some time this morning according to the tracking site), minus the back ordered items.

Mark
 
Previously they didn't seem overly hung up about final payment dates. In fact on my -7 emp kit they only gently suggested to me that it was time for a final payment when I enquired at the start of the crating window. I made that payment, and then the timelines got pushed out (again) and they offered me the final payment back for the time being, which I accepted.

I would guess that with the need to cover the costs of LCP replacement and fallout, cash flow is becoming a bit more critical and demanding payment sooner may well be part of that.

It would also be my guess that the vast majority of parts production will go into shipping new kits so as to keep revenue coming in. Replacements for LCPs will quite probably trickle out very slowly over a very long period of time so as to smooth out the cashflow impact of having to ship a lot of product without payment.
 
VAN's is struggling

I ordered my RV-10 fuselage 5/9 and got an initial crate date of 1/1/24-2/15/24. Which was marginally ok, my wings and emp will be complete by Oct/Nov time frame. However, I just checked my kit status only to find my crate date has been moved out to 4/1 at the earliest. So I will be dead in the water for four or five months unless I can find a third-party fuselage to buy. I really think VAN's should break up the fuselage kit to at least provide the aluminum components to at least build the "canoe", to keep things moving. Word to the wise, keep an eye on your kit status page, lest you be surprised. This LCP has totally upended VAN's and their ability to deliver in a timely manner.
 
I ordered everything for an RV-14 QB on March 30, including my engine and prop. I received the prop (Hartzell 72 inch) about a month ago and my tail kit is paid for and was supposed to ship by 8/2 but no word yet except that it's "packed - waiting to ship".

The end date of the shipping range for my QB fuse was originally July '24 but is now Feb. '25. The crazy thing is the delivery range is 8 months from May '24 to Feb '25. That is some serious uncertainty.

QB Wings were April '24 at the latest and now are Jan. '24 so that's an improvement.

So it's the fuse kit I'll be waiting on.
 
I paid the reminder on August 4th, 2023 for my RV10 wing kit. Crating is scheduled for the week of September 4th, so in my case it is exact 4 weeks ;)
 
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Once the kits are delivered, you will find out many items are on back order. I have the empennage kit, wing kit, and fuselage kit. I can’t complete one single section because an item is on B/O. The items will be available in December 2023. Vans expects full payments before kits are shipped. I don’t believe Vans would ship if I tell the that “payment is on B/O”. It is very frustrating , and not the way Vans operated back in the 90’s.
 
My recent -7 has been a very different experience than my -3b nearly 15 years ago. Building a plane is hard enough when everything is going perfectly. Trying to work around miscellaneous back ordered parts without painting yourself into a corner takes a lot of enjoyment out of the process. I don’t see this new normal working out for Vans over the long term.
 
rph142 said:
...Trying to work around miscellaneous back ordered parts without painting yourself into a corner takes a lot of enjoyment out of the process....
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I've definitely lost my enthusiasm. I spent so much time and money getting ready for this build and now I'm just sitting here with a wing kit full of laser cut parts and waiting for a tail kit that will probably have a bunch of B/O parts.

I ordered a new PC so I'm going to get a 6 DOF motion simulator while I wait and fly virtually instead.
 
My experienced with back ordered parts was after the parts were delivered, I was 1 year or more away from touching the backordered part. If a build takes 5 years or more to complete, I don't sweat a few months waiting for back order.

I do understand frustration of making full payment and not getting the kit. But in all the major kits I ordered, there were always a few backordered parts. Some took longer especially during covid. In addition, there were defects and they had to be returned and re-ordered. Sometime it took almost a month to resolved but it's part of building airplane. It's a marathon.

There was a builder who used to post in here about getting his shop ready to build the empenage. The pictures he posted about his effort to setup his shop, his tool cabinets, they were phenominal. I don't think he got further than the empennage kit. It's a marathon.
 
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Though everyone's experience may be different, I feel I should relate my experience this summer With RV-12 kits. I received request for payment for wing kit, then a request for fuselage and finish kits the first of April and early May. Did not surprise me about the wing kit as it was right at 30 days before crating window. Fuse was listed as crating in August and Finish was listed as Dec '23 to Jan' 24. I paid for all and then waited and watched as the wing kit was posted as ready to ship and sat for 6 weeks. Inquiry was made and I was told I would get all three kits shipped together to arrive end of June. Sure enough showed up on June 30. Due to waiting on wing kit, paying when asked, Vans saved me nearly $1,900 on shipping sending it all at once. Was I concerned yes, but end of day they answered my questions and saved me a wad of money. Yes, I am waiting on back ordered parts but have more than enough to keep me busy! Building an airplane is very much an exercise in patience whether its a part, tool, or knowledge deficit there are many times that self imposed expectations must be modified.
 
I think Vans needs to temper their expectations as well, maybe instead of advertising kits as ready in "as little as 1200 hours" it should be "as little as 12 years".

We all understand it takes longer than we hoped it will, having to redo/reorder something, buy new tools, simply learning new skills is all frustrating and time consuming.

But, that being said, it's not the 90s and we're definitely not paying 90s prices. We're not building from blueprints and raw aluminum. These kits are better and easier to assemble than ever, we're paying top top dollar for them, in advance, and now instead of family and life getting in the way it's Vans themselves coming up short.

The LPC issue sucks big time, it's a crummy thing and I feel bad for them and everyone else affected, but that's life and that's business. How well the company deals with these hurdles reflects how well current and prospective customers will view them.

Personally I think they should go back to taking a small token deposit, extend their advertised lead times big time to temper expectations, and stop shipping kits missing BO items. The death by 1000 delays would be a lot more tolerable if they didn't have $20/$50/$100k of our money floating around in the supply chain for months or years on end.
 
Well, my kits have been delayed even further. Dang laser cut parts!!!

Final payment on my tail kit was made on 7/19/23. Crating window was originally July. It was then pushed to August then September and now it's November. At this point I don't have much faith that it will be ready in November.

My enthusiasm for building this airplane has tanked. $81,000 spent so far and not one rivet driven yet :-(

Sorry for whining. Just really bummed. I was so excited to start this build. We actually bought a house at an airpark last spring specifically to build this airplane. Yeah I know - big time first world problem!

OK, I feel better now.
 
bertschb said:
Well, my kits have been delayed even further. Dang laser cut parts!!!

Final payment on my tail kit was made on 7/19/23. Crating window was originally July. It was then pushed to August then September and now it's November. At this point I don't have much faith that it will be ready in November.

My enthusiasm for building this airplane has tanked. $81,000 spent so far and not one rivet driven yet :-(

Sorry for whining. Just really bummed. I was so excited to start this build. We actually bought a house at an airpark last spring specifically to build this airplane. Yeah I know - big time first world problem!

OK, I feel better now.
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Dude, I can see you got parts from your Kitlog page, why don't you start building?
 
PhatRV said:
Dude, I can see you got parts from your Kitlog page, why don't you start building?
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Two reasons. First, as a new builder I was told it was better to start with the tail kit which is what I'm waiting for. Second (and more importantly), the wing kit I received has almost 100 laser cut parts. I'm not going to build a wing with laser cut parts - many of which have been classified as "red" replacement parts by Vans.
 
bertschb said:
Well, my kits have been delayed even further. Dang laser cut parts!!!

Final payment on my tail kit was made on 7/19/23. Crating window was originally July. It was then pushed to August then September and now it's November. At this point I don't have much faith that it will be ready in November.

My enthusiasm for building this airplane has tanked. $81,000 spent so far and not one rivet driven yet :-(

Sorry for whining. Just really bummed. I was so excited to start this build. We actually bought a house at an airpark last spring specifically to build this airplane. Yeah I know - big time first world problem!

OK, I feel better now.
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That's bad luck and bad timing. A real sign of a first world problem when demand exceeds supply for something that we don't need! Certain models of Toyota have a 3 year waiting list and their order book is closed. At least Toyota tells you up front that it will be 3 years and they close the order books when they reach manufacturing capacity.

If it's any comfort to you, I started building in 1993 and it's still going, with a kit that didn't have any laser cut holes... or any holes for that matter. These projects are a journey!
 
PaulvS said:
If it's any comfort to you, I started building in 1993 and it's still going, with a kit that didn't have any laser cut holes... or any holes for that matter. These projects are a journey!
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Wow! That is quite a journey. 30 years and still building?

My son and I were planning on working full time on my build so we would have finished it quicker than a typical build.

I am thankful I have an opportunity to (eventually) build an airplane. I just need more patience!
 
bertschb said:
Two reasons. First, as a new builder I was told it was better to start with the tail kit which is what I'm waiting for. Second (and more importantly), the wing kit I received has almost 100 laser cut parts. I'm not going to build a wing with laser cut parts - many of which have been classified as "red" replacement parts by Vans.
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Start working on little things in the wing kit. Good examples are flight control pushrod tubes. It is probably better to get those primed ASAP anyway. There are plenty of small projects like that throughout that will keep you busy for another month or two and give you a chance to use your new tools. Installing nut plates on access panels is another good one. If you are of the priming type, this is also a good chance to start deburring and priming some small non LCP parts.

You can always start deburring parts ;)
 
bertschb said:
Well, my kits have been delayed even further. Dang laser cut parts!!!

Final payment on my tail kit was made on 7/19/23. Crating window was originally July.
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Hang in there Brian. I ordered everything in March and my tail kit is with the shipping company now.

I've occupied my my time by stocking my shop and talking to and visiting RV builders and after market suppliers. But most importantly, I've spent time in two different building classes and building multiple practice kits back in the hangar. It's helped keep my enthusiasm up and my impatience in check.

I predict you'll be pounding rivets soon! (And drilling some out....:))
 
I've built two practice tool boxes. Removed rivets from the first one and rebuilt it. I've spent $12,000 on tools so far. Kind of running out of tools to buy - at least until I have some actual experience. I've ordered tons of after market parts. I contacted Steinair and spent $6,000 on preliminary avionics stuff to use on the tail build. I built a paint booth and bought all the painting equipment. Built four extended length EAA workbenches. The hangar is ready.

I've also watched hundreds of hours of videos from other builders. Probably spent a hundred more hours reading build logs. I spend way too much time here every day. The laser cut parts thread is depressing.

I know others have waited years for their QB kits. The mistake I made as a rookie builder was assuming the estimated lead times would be reasonably accurate. I thought I'd be starting the build in June or July. Bummed when it was delayed until August. Really bummed when it slipped to September. Now it's November.
Although I'm a first time builder and very naive, I can see the trend here. That's why I'm very pessimistic about the November crate date. I suspect March 2024 might be more likely.

Maybe I'll scrounge through the mix of laser and punched parts in my wing kit and start deburring some things. I've held off on doing that because I really wanted to follow the instructions in order. Kind of OCD that way.

I built a new PC last month to run flight simulator while I wait. That has been very useful. Maybe I'll book a dive trip while I wait.
 
My crating window for my 7A slider was just pushed back a month. Ugh.

Good thing I started my fiberglass tips and have something to do.
 
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