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EZDebur/Cogsdill sizes

Fenderbean

Fenderbean

Well Known Member
Trying to figure the best sizes to get for the 10, they are expensive, so I was wondering what folks grab for size wise.

Also how long does one last before it needs replacing? not sure if the blade can be replaced or if its the whole bit.
my last tool for the toolbox before jumping on my build.

Thanks
 
I have looked at those, but have just been using the reamers from Pan American tool.
#40, #30 and #12 are the most used on the -10 build.
A 3/8” reamer is best for the hinge plates, but can do in drill press with margin drill.

Life expectancy on sharp edge tools depends a lot on thickness and of material primarily used, aggressiveness of use and storage.
I actually go through more Cleaveland Tool deburring bits than reamers.
(Although I had an EAA session teaching folks metalwork and one #40 reamer ended up with chipped flutes. Unsure of cause)


Pro-tip - use reamers in lightweight drill, Borelube pink paste to dip, and use Scott McDaniel’s technique to ream perpendicular.
Finally, take reamer out of drill chuck after each use and set into holder.
If the drill tips over those #40 reamers, they will bend like a reed in the wind, making them scrap.

- cappy
 
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rocketman1988 said:
The cogsdill but are used for deburring, not reaming.

I have #40, and #30
Click to expand...
Yeah I didnt see that size specifically so I guess I need to look up the diameter of those two.

I'm not sure I understand the second post about a reamer; I have reamers that I will use on final holes to make them as smooth as but they don't debur right?
 
Fenderbean said:
Trying to figure the best sizes to get for the 10, they are expensive, so I was wondering what folks grab for size wise.

Also how long does one last before it needs replacing? not sure if the blade can be replaced or if its the whole bit.
my last tool for the toolbox before jumping on my build.

Thanks
Click to expand...
For real Cogsdill Burraway tools, all blades are replaceable EXCEPT #40’s …

HFS
 
Fenderbean said:
Yeah I didnt see that size specifically so I guess I need to look up the diameter of those two.

I'm not sure I understand the second post about a reamer; I have reamers that I will use on final holes to make them as smooth as but they don't debur right?
Click to expand...
correct
 
They don't have anything the says #40 or #30 so I'm guess I need to use whatever drill bit diameter those?
 
#30 and #40. Very useful but require care and maintenance.
Spring tension for instance.

I found several sources for near identical products that are all breakable. Replaceable blades are too expensive for most, especially Burr-away and Cogsdill.

Probably my best success was with the products from panamericantool.com.

1/8 and 3/32 each $75
www.panamericantool.com

In / Out Deburring Tools

<ul> <li>Fractional Sizes</li> <li>Shank Size: 1/4″</li> <li>Furnished with double acting blade for burr removal on both the front & back sides of hole.
</li> <li>The inexpensive, replaceable cutting blades can be adjusted to control the amount of edge break.
</li> <li>Spring tensioned blade...
www.panamericantool.com www.panamericantool.com

They also have great choices for reamers, drills, and drill motors. (Highly recommend a 90 degree high speed drill motor. So easy to control by bracing with one hand at the tip. You won’t believe how much better it is at drilling out rivets. )

When you get one, buy a few replacement blades, take it apart, figure it out, set it up the way you like, don’t drop it on the ground. And don’t put it on a hole that is too big. Easily broken. And only half the broken parts are the blades. So then you buy another…. But it saves time.

Hope you aren’t building to save money.
 
tldavis said:
#30 and #40. Very useful but require care and maintenance.
Spring tension for instance.

I found several sources for near identical products that are all breakable. Replaceable blades are too expensive for most, especially Burr-away and Cogsdill.

Probably my best success was with the products from panamericantool.com.

1/8 and 3/32 each $75
www.panamericantool.com

In / Out Deburring Tools

<ul> <li>Fractional Sizes</li> <li>Shank Size: 1/4″</li> <li>Furnished with double acting blade for burr removal on both the front & back sides of hole.
</li> <li>The inexpensive, replaceable cutting blades can be adjusted to control the amount of edge break.
</li> <li>Spring tensioned blade...
www.panamericantool.com www.panamericantool.com

They also have great choices for reamers, drills, and drill motors. (Highly recommend a 90 degree high speed drill motor. So easy to control by bracing with one hand at the tip. You won’t believe how much better it is at drilling out rivets. )

When you get one, buy a few replacement blades, take it apart, figure it out, set it up the way you like, don’t drop it on the ground. And don’t put it on a hole that is too big. Easily broken. And only half the broken parts are the blades. So then you buy another…. But it saves time.

Hope you aren’t building to save money.
Click to expand...
Awesome thank you, I totally missed those, I just ordered some stuff from them.
 
Dr_Dave_MT said:
I have looked at those, but have just been using the reamers from Pan American tool.
#40, #30 and #12 are the most used on the -10 build.
A 3/8” reamer is best for the hinge plates, but can do in drill press with margin drill.

Life expectancy on sharp edge tools depends a lot on thickness and of material primarily used, aggressiveness of use and storage.
I actually go through more Cleaveland Tool deburring bits than reamers.
(Although I had an EAA session teaching folks metalwork and one #40 reamer ended up with chipped flutes. Unsure of cause)


Pro-tip - use reamers in lightweight drill, Borelube pink paste to dip, and use Scott McDaniel’s technique to ream perpendicular.
Finally, take reamer out of drill chuck after each use and set into holder.
If the drill tips over those #40 reamers, they will bend like a reed in the wind, making them scrap.

- cappy
Click to expand...
I try very hard to never put a drill down standing on the battery.. I try to place the drill down “laying down” on its side, just for that reason!
 
I think i am going to try the they are half the price with some extra blades for the 1/8 and 3/32 size which will be for the #30/40

OMG i could have saved some money lately if I would have know about that website!!! A bit cheaper!
 
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SO a friend says these things will ruin your holes per say, I can see them making holes larger if you have too much pressure on the blades. Am I correct to assume that if adjust properly they will not enlarge holes in thin aluminum?
 
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I personally, as a 47 year in the heavy structures of airliners business, would not use these on thin sheet. Sure, I have some In/Out tools.. 1/4-1/2 diameter and larger ones for doing large fittings and such, but please keep in mind, the load path is transfer from substructure to skin and vise versa through the rivets in a shear loading. The more bearing surface you have (thickness of the skin in a straight walled hole) the more transfer that occurs through the rivet shank (a good thing). True, a rivet is hole filling by expansion, but only so much. Long ago, when I worked with Boeing on the fuselage lap-joint failures at knife-edging, I learned that the best technique for thin skin de-burr was a vixen file slid down the joint line, or a simple scotchbrite wipe down. I personally do little to no de-burr in the terms of using tools mentioned. I have a very simple 6 flute universal countersink stuck in a file handle I may just touch if there is a large burr from drilling. Over de-burr can lead to excessive smoking rivets and more. The In/Out tools can be very aggressive when run in a drill. Be careful out there!
 
I have read a comment from one gentleman who used it and it made the holes so large to the point that the Cleco just fall out.
Be carful.
 
fixnflyguy said:
I personally, as a 47 year in the heavy structures of airliners business, would not use these on thin sheet. Sure, I have some In/Out tools.. 1/4-1/2 diameter and larger ones for doing large fittings and such, but please keep in mind, the load path is transfer from substructure to skin and vise versa through the rivets in a shear loading. The more bearing surface you have (thickness of the skin in a straight walled hole) the more transfer that occurs through the rivet shank (a good thing). True, a rivet is hole filling by expansion, but only so much. Long ago, when I worked with Boeing on the fuselage lap-joint failures at knife-edging, I learned that the best technique for thin skin de-burr was a vixen file slid down the joint line, or a simple scotchbrite wipe down. I personally do little to no de-burr in the terms of using tools mentioned. I have a very simple 6 flute universal countersink stuck in a file handle I may just touch if there is a large burr from drilling. Over de-burr can lead to excessive smoking rivets and more. The In/Out tools can be very aggressive when run in a drill. Be careful out there!
Click to expand...
That is why you adjust the spring tension; if the tool is too aggresive you do not have it adjusted properly.

Also, the burr left from punching the holes is typically more substantial than a "simple scotchbrite wipe down" will remove.
 
I have a full set (or many different sizes of burr away brand) and they are at times priceless especially when you don't have an easy access to the other side. I don't use them for normal deburring but there are times that they get pulled out as no other choice would do the job.
 
rocketman1988 said:
That is why you adjust the spring tension; if the tool is too aggresive you do not have it adjusted properly.

Also, the burr left from punching the holes is typically more substantial than a "simple scotchbrite wipe down" will remove.
Click to expand...
Good point..I have never worked with pre-punch holes, so I can not elaborate on that. The RV-4 I built had zero pre-anything, and the big jets don't either.
 
Seems to be a lot of feedback for such a simple tool. I have a set and love them. You'd have to try pretty hard to hog out a hole and make the diameter bigger. In fact, I never thought of that possibility until I read this thread. I guess if you chucked them up in a drill and went crazy and used them on every hole, there's a possibility that could happen.

I use mine only for places that I can't reach with a standard deburring tool. An example would be drilling a hole in an assembly that you can't reach from the back side with a standard deburring tool. Many times this might be a place where a pop rivet is used. Also, I don't chuck them up in a drill, I use them by hand. I just depress the blade, stick it though the hole and then deburr much like I would with a deburring tool. I don't use them much, but when you need one, nothing else will do.

I'd suggest that if you purchase a set you think of them as a tool that helps create a quality build, not speed up the build.
 
I am not familiar with them and did a quick video search on how to use them. Could not find anything. Can someone who has been successful using them give a quick explanation of the procedure they use?
 
fixnflyguy said:
Good point..I have never worked with pre-punch holes, so I can not elaborate on that. The RV-4 I built had zero pre-anything, and the big jets don't either.
Click to expand...

The pre-punched burrs I've measured come out at ~0.001" on my mic (no vernier). Some of the older non-final sized burrs were bigger but I didn't measure those. They only take a turn to get rid of (if that). I would think using one of the in-out deburr tools would actually over deburr because the top side of the hole is already pushed in from the punch.
 
Jetmart said:
Yes, I have seen them, know where to buy them. Just don’t know how to use them successfully. I presume you put them in a drill. Wondering what speed? Also read that they are adjustable?
Click to expand...
They are adjustable and I assume it's for a drill since shanks are round. I first used the cogsdill version with a friend who is building a zenith 750 and they worked great. I had no idea they existed till then. My tail kit is older so I will have to do all the work on the rivet holes since they are not final size.
 
jacoby said:
The pre-punched burrs I've measured come out at ~0.001" on my mic (no vernier). Some of the older non-final sized burrs were bigger but I didn't measure those. They only take a turn to get rid of (if that). I would think using one of the in-out deburr tools would actually over deburr because the top side of the hole is already pushed in from the punch.
Click to expand...

Are you building a -15? I ask because the burrs on the rib flange holes is larger that .001”, and it is every hole. As that but is on the inside of the flange, your options are a finger and thumb on a rosebud deburr bit, a dremel tool to deburr the area around the hole, or the in-out bit.

Tried them all. The dremel works pretty good but leaves about a 3/16” diameter area around the hole polished. The finger and thumb method works but is incredibly fatiguing on your hands. The in-out bit seems to be the most efficient.

Properly set, the in-out won’t do anything more than take the burr off and likely about the same as the rosebud.
 
rocketman1988 said:
Are you building a -15? I ask because the burrs on the rib flange holes is larger that .001”, and it is every hole. As that but is on the inside of the flange, your options are a finger and thumb on a rosebud deburr bit, a dremel tool to deburr the area around the hole, or the in-out bit.
Click to expand...
No I'm building a -10. Those hard to access burrs are the worst to do though. I wonder if the punches are getting worn out? The tail and wing kit had some burrs that would catch a nail but they weren't final sized so they'd mostly get drilled off anyways. The fuse and finish kits were final sized and have almost no burr.

I wonder if you could mount up one of those low profile 90° drill adapters in a drill press and push the work into a countersink/deburr bit? You'd just need a rod to keep the adapter from spinning.
 
I'm in the process of setting up shop for an RV-10 build. Did an EAA sheet metal workshop recently and the instructor loves EZ Burr, so I picked up the 3/32 and 1/8" since those will be the most common in an RV-10. Haven't received them yet and I'll test them on practice projects soon.

If they can be set up to achieve consistent, quality results, then I don't see why not to use them more broadly. That said, I do have other deburring tools like the Avery dogleg tool and Cleaveland hex tool. Will see what works best.

One question I have not yet figured out though is the correct RPM for these. Considering whether to use an air drill or a 12v battery drill. If anyone has thoughts on this, it'd be helpful.
 
adamrjansen said:
I'm in the process of setting up shop for an RV-10 build. Did an EAA sheet metal workshop recently and the instructor loves EZ Burr, so I picked up the 3/32 and 1/8" since those will be the most common in an RV-10. Haven't received them yet and I'll test them on practice projects soon.

If they can be set up to achieve consistent, quality results, then I don't see why not to use them more broadly. That said, I do have other deburring tools like the Avery dogleg tool and Cleaveland hex tool. Will see what works best.

One question I have not yet figured out though is the correct RPM for these. Considering whether to use an air drill or a 12v battery drill. If anyone has thoughts on this, it'd be helpful.
Click to expand...
Setting up mine as well, about done now and waiting on primer so I can start where I left off. I need to do an SB on the Rudder and add a trim to it.
If you have a page let me know, im using my youtube channel
No idea about the RPM but surely an electric screw driver speed is fine and lower rpms in a drill.
 
fixnflyguy said:
I personally, as a 47 year in the heavy structures of airliners business, would not use these on thin sheet. Sure, I have some In/Out tools.. 1/4-1/2 diameter and larger ones for doing large fittings and such, but please keep in mind, the load path is transfer from substructure to skin and vise versa through the rivets in a shear loading. The more bearing surface you have (thickness of the skin in a straight walled hole) the more transfer that occurs through the rivet shank (a good thing). True, a rivet is hole filling by expansion, but only so much. Long ago, when I worked with Boeing on the fuselage lap-joint failures at knife-edging, I learned that the best technique for thin skin de-burr was a vixen file slid down the joint line, or a simple scotchbrite wipe down. I personally do little to no de-burr in the terms of using tools mentioned. I have a very simple 6 flute universal countersink stuck in a file handle I may just touch if there is a large burr from drilling. Over de-burr can lead to excessive smoking rivets and more. The In/Out tools can be very aggressive when run in a drill. Be careful out there!
Click to expand...
Off subject a little, but in line with this comment -

I have noticed the red material marked side of the aluminum pieces, aft wing spar, wing ribs, in this case, is the side the cnc punch enters, thus the opposite side is the burred side. No need to mess with the input side of the punched hole.

So a light, very light, swirl with a countersink bit in cheap Wally electric screwdriver will remove the burr without making a serious concave bevel. Now I alodine all my parts so I could scratch off the alclad with a scotchbrite as well and not stress, but I concur we can sometimes make things worse with some aerospace gadgets.
 
HishamH said:
I have read a comment from one gentleman who used it and it made the holes so large to the point that the Cleco just fall out.
Be carful.
Click to expand...
Yes you have to adjust it and practice.. on thin skins (.020) you have to have the spring tension set as low as you can go..
 
IMO - If you're asking about RPMs, you're already deburring too much. I don't want to thread drift, but a turn or two is all that is needed with a standard deburring tool, these are really no different. I'd encourage you not to use these for standard deburring. It's not that you can't, it's just that using a drill or power tool to deburr may not be a best practice. Also, the blades do wear out. You have only one cutting surface here where most deburring tools have multiple blades.

Collapsing the blade with your index finger, putting the tool through the hole, gentling pulling back and allowing the blade to make contact with the underside/blind side of the hole and twisting the tool in your fingers works extremely well. I also put a gentle twist on the tool when removing it from the hole. My fear is that pulling the blade straight out might introduce a stress riser due to the blade "slicing" the hole upon removal.

These are some of the best tools I own and I'd highly recommend them, I just don't think I'd use them in a powertool on aluminum. Is it possible to use them in a power tool sucessfully? Of course. But also with consistancy? That would be tough. YMMV.
 
I purchased the Texas In-Out Deburr tool from Yardstore based on a recommendation from a friend. I had not used it yet because I really wasn't sure how to. But after reading this topic yesterday morning, I had a situation pop up that required some bottom and top deburring. The tool works great. I had the electric hand drill on the slowest speed and just slowly passed it through the hole and backout and it did an excellent job of deburring. It was in a spot that getting a regular deburring tool on the bottom side would have been difficult.
 
Richard Connell said:
This thing has built 3.5 slow builds. One turn with yr fingers - done.
I’d caution new builders against using any form of powered deburring methods - especially on skins. View attachment 112219

cleavelandtool.com

Hex Shank Hole Deburring Tool (EXCLUSIVE by Cleaveland Tool)

Hex Shank Hole Deburring Tool
cleavelandtool.com cleavelandtool.com
Click to expand...
Ya. I have several of those. Twist by hand in “hard to get spots”. Slow speed screw driver, 1.5 revs, you’ll feel the burr break down. Any more than that, well, you know the joke…
 
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