Evoke paint pricing question

[flymore]

Yeah, it cracks me up. There are MANY people on this forum that basically think I made a Lego airplane during a lunch break because I'm "assembling" an RV-14.

You should hear some of the comments I’ve heard about us -15 “assemblers”. Lol

FWIW, I bought a spot in line for Evoke before I received my Wings kit. I’m hoping the timing works out.

 

[MED]

What bob says is accurate. However, the oxide layer is not complete protection. Under the right conditions, that oxide layer is not adequate to prevent further oxidation/corossion. So, yes, a layer of paint or primer will increase protection. That said, in the majority of environments, very little to no further oxidation will occur. To be clear, we are talking the pure varieties like 6061. Add alloys, like 2024, and a whole different kettle of fish; which is why we use alclad when available.

An exception to all of the above are when external things trap air, like that stupid blue film. These are huge oxidation accelerators.

Actually, our skins are alclad 2024 and the structural elements are 6061, which is not as corrosion resistant, hence the suggestion to prime. Let’s not open that can of worms!

 

[Fenderbean]

It's just troublesome and discouraging, Vans went up 20% in Jan, Motors have gone through the roof since I started this process a few years ago (47k to over 100k is crazy) and I get aviation is expensive but finding less reason vs just spending 150K on certified and use the other 200K for maintenance.

I love building and not trying to win awards, impress people on the ramp just be happy with my plane when I look at it. I will also say as someone that grew up poor as dirt, the comments about if you can't afford something don't do it is just not who I am. Set goal, crush them, set new goals and so on, this applies for this, just because you do not have deep pockets is no reason to not do something you dream of and love. It just means I have to actually think about it and consider it in my decision and plans making.

I'm not bashing evoke as a former small business owner I get the price is the price. I wanted to get real world current cost from recent customers which I have received. I guess the "priced out of paradise" is similar to GA and getting worse now in the Experimental side.

Cheers and thanks for the comments

 

[Notso]

The pure aluminum coating on our airplane skins is very corrosion resistant in the absence of something to break down the protective oxide layer - like salt water or industrial pollution. Keep it clean and, preferably, hangared, and it will last a very long time.

I understand that.... but it didn't really answer my question. I think for the common/avg user - a bare metal finish is a LOT of work to keep corrosive free. And given the OP is in AL, I can't think of many worse environments for that.

So I think its perfectly reasonable to be apprehensive about leaving your aircraft unpainted with these potentially long wait times to get into the paint shop. Not everyone has a hangar or the time it takes to maintain a bare metal finish properly.

 

[rocketman1988]

What bob says is accurate. However, the oxide layer is not complete protection. Under the right conditions, that oxide layer is not adequate to prevent further oxidation/corossion. So, yes, a layer of paint or primer will increase protection. That said, in the majority of environments, very little to no further oxidation will occur. To be clear, we are talking the pure varieties like 6061. Add alloys, like 2024, and a whole different kettle of fish; which is why we use alclad when available.

An exception to all of the above are when external things trap air, like that stupid blue film. These are huge oxidation accelerators.

Yes wrg blue film.

Also, the sweat from your hands will accelerate the oxidation. If you are working in a warm climate and do not wipe down your parts after a work session, your handprints will start showing up!

 

[Notso]

Unpainted, flying 10 years now - ugly, but its a work truck! The good thing is that if you DO get corrosion, its not underneath the paint, causing bubbling and peeling….you hit it is Scotchbrite and move on…. Of course, we live on the edge of the desert!

Look at many aluminum planes from the early years - they were all unpainted because no one had figured out how to make paint stick well to aluminum!

View attachment 122424

Paul, I'm in no way saying that a bare metal finish is bad or unworkable. But not everyone lives in the desert like you and I do. Again, I go back to the OP who's tagline says he's in Huntsville, AL. Would you still have a bare metal finish if you lived in AL? Or on the coast of FL for instance? And yes, I'm sure that people do have bare metal airplanes in those environments.... but I'll bet its a LOT more work there than the occasional scotchbrite rub.

 

[Mel]

Actually, our skins are alclad 2024 and the structural elements are 6061, which is not as corrosion resistant, hence the suggestion to prime. Let’s not open that can of worms!

Ah, Contraire, 6061 is MUCH more corrosion resistant than 2024, hence that fact that it does not need to be alclad.

A lot of kits coming out of Canada and Oshkosh are built entirely with 6061, and many don't prime at all, sit outside, and last and last.

 

[simpsontl48]

It's just troublesome and discouraging, Vans went up 20% in Jan, Motors have gone through the roof since I started this process a few years ago (47k to over 100k is crazy) and I get aviation is expensive but finding less reason vs just spending 150K on certified and use the other 200K for maintenance.

I love building and not trying to win awards, impress people on the ramp just be happy with my plane when I look at it. I will also say as someone that grew up poor as dirt, the comments about if you can't afford something don't do it is just not who I am. Set goal, crush them, set new goals and so on, this applies for this, just because you do not have deep pockets is no reason to not do something you dream of and love. It just means I have to actually think about it and consider it in my decision and plans making.

I'm not bashing evoke as a former small business owner I get the price is the price. I wanted to get real world current cost from recent customers which I have received. I guess the "priced out of paradise" is similar to GA and getting worse now in the Experimental side.

Cheers and thanks for the comments

It definitely is discouraging. Especially, when building was at one time the only way some people could end up owning a plane they would love and could afford. That is going by the wayside for many who are not of higher income/assets. The kits are "relatively" low priced, the follow on costs kill the deal for many. Sad. If I were a kit company CEO, I would be concerned for my business future. The price of AVGAS here in SOCAL is $7.30 per gallon. Many plane owners here are leaving them in the hangar and not flying much.

 

[simpsontl48]

I think the point was to understand the full commitment before you start rather than running into the inescapable problem that: "An engine costs WHAAT?" "Avionics are HOW MUCH?" and "$40K and a 4 year wait for paint?"

Exactly!

 

[Mark Dickens]

It definitely is discouraging. Especially, when building was at one time the only way some people could end up owning a plane they would love and could afford. That is going by the wayside for many who are not of higher income/assets. The kits are "relatively" low priced, the follow on costs kill the deal for many. Sad. If I were a kit company CEO, I would be concerned for my business future. The price of AVGAS here in SOCAL is $7.30 per gallon. Many plane owners here are leaving them in the hangar and not flying much.

How about building a plans-built kit? Yes, takes longer, but time and money are inversely related you know. I've always admired the Wittman Tailwind myself

 

[Brantel]

This is probably technically true per the contracts (which I'm not going to dig up), but it was never expressed as an obligation or even treated like a box to check off. Because of where I live, this was understood from the moment we were discussing the quote. Once the scheme was done, Evoke sent the paint guide to my painter, they even cut and sent the masks.

To receive the finished product and paint guide etc., I had to sign what was eventually a contract that stated:

This drawing is the intellectual and exclusive property of Evoke Aviation. It is loaned on the understanding that the drawing, any technical specifications, design features or information contained herein will not be disclosed, given to any person or any entity, reproduced or copied, be it directly or indirectly, in whole or in part, or used for the manufacture of any part shown herein except by the written order of Evoke Aviation LLC. Acceptance of this drawing will be construed as acceptance of the foregoing conditions. All rights reserved.

 

[MED]

Ah, Contraire, 6061 is MUCH more corrosion resistant than 2024, hence that fact that it does not need to be alclad.

A lot of kits coming out of Canada and Oshkosh are built entirely with 6061, and many don't prime at all, sit outside, and last and last.

Ok, peace. The corrosion resistance of the 2024 we use is very good, because it is al-clad. Pure aluminum is very corrosion resistant. Just don’t scratch through the cladding.

 

[rph142]

I’ve discovered three downsides to a nice paint job in addition to the cost:

1. I am often held up by pilots, line guys, or passerby’s during refueling while they look over the plane.
2. I can’t bring myself to land on anything with loose gravel or dirt.
3. I have to dust around the Oshkosh Lindy trophy on my mantle.

If I build again I’ll probably use a combination of polish and vinyl. The prices are getting out of hand even compared to a few years ago.

 

[sbalmos]

I’ve discovered three downsides to a nice paint job in addition to the cost:

1. I am often held up by pilots, line guys, or passerby’s during refueling while they look over the plane.
2. I can’t bring myself to land on anything with loose gravel or dirt.
3. I have to dust around the Oshkosh Lindy trophy on my mantle.

On the other hand, it has gotten me a few free/heavily-discounted nights in a hangar from jealous line guys, rather than sitting out in potential thunderstorms down in Jacksonville. Even more jealousy from the Cirrus and Epic drivers who have more zeroes at the end of their bank accounts than I do when they walk into the hangar and see me loading up in front of them.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

Paul, I'm in no way saying that a bare metal finish is bad or unworkable. But not everyone lives in the desert like you and I do. Again, I go back to the OP who's tagline says he's in Huntsville, AL. Would you still have a bare metal finish if you lived in AL? Or on the coast of FL for instance? And yes, I'm sure that people do have bare metal airplanes in those environments.... but I'll bet its a LOT more work there than the occasional scotchbrite rub.

I've been in the RV community in the Huntsville, AL area for nearly 30 years. I'm personally aware of several RVs that flew for a few years prior to paint. Each of them was eventually painted and the finish has held up well. I won't get into the chemistry debate but flying our planes prior to paint is a viable option regardless of locale.