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DYNON SV-AP-PANEL Failure - New SB

PilotBrent

Well Known Member
http://https://dynonavionics.com/bulletins/104808-000-Rev-A-Tech-Service-Bulletin-SV-AP-PANEL.pdf

This SERVICE BULLETIN from Dynon was in part triggered by my experience in my E-LSA RV-12 on 7/26/2023 during my return from Oshkosh this year. The equipment failure led to an in flight emergency. I reported it both to Dynon and Vans - I am aware of other aircraft who experienced similar failures so it may not be as rare as the SB suggests. If you use one of this affected SV-AP-PANEL units in your aircraft, please take the SB seriously.

What appeared to be an intermittent failure of the AP Control Panel in flight led to an uncommanded full nose up trim movement during takeoff that could not be resolved with the trim control button on the RV-12 panel. I was able to successfully return to the airport & land although emergency equipment was activated by ATC given the high degree of difficulty I experienced in manuvering the aircraft in this configuration. Most pilots are very aware of actual aircraft crashes due to uncommanded/unexpected extreme trim configurations.

I completed an emergency fix at a remote airport in Canada and was able to fly the aircraft home to New Jersey with neutral trim. Upon notifying Dynon, they quickly provided a new/replacement SV-AP Panel. Dynon later informed me that they had been aware of some failures in early AP units, but for reasons I cannot understand, they had decided not to issue a warning or SB to aircraft owners relying on these early AP Control units.

Given the intermittent nature of the original failure I am not fully confident that a similar situation could not reoccur. Most importantly, I am concerned that an intermittent (or any) failure of the SV-AP Panel could prevent a pilot from manually activating the trim servo motor in an RV-12. I was not aware of this risk and I suspect most RV-12 pilots with a Dynon panel would also be very concerned about the possibility that a hardware and/or software failure with this Skyview accessory panel could 1) lead to a full and uncommanded nose up trim movement in flight especially when the autopilot is not even activated and 2) prevent the pilot from manually adjusting the trim to safely maintain aircraft control.

I have subsequently installed a bypass panel in my RV-12 that allows me switch off the AP PANEL and manually control the TRIM Servo should the AP PANEL similarly fail in future. That is the only way I am comfortable making longer cross country trips. This "fix" was also suggested to me by Van's, although I had already made the modification. (PS. Van's also informed me that RV-12is wiring is apparently not subject to this type of TRIM control failure.)
 
I am really glad things turned out OK for you and that you were safe. This is very unfortunate, especially that they knew about it.

A few years back, a few of us were having issues with Dynon heated pitot that was not draining right and could get blocked by water. It took Dynon a long time to replace those with their new/improved design that had a drain hole.
 
Thank you, I would have never heard of this bulletin had you not posted this. I have an affected unit. It has also reminded me to check for service bulletins for the rest of the equipment in my plane, not just the airframe.
 
I got an email from Dynon advising of the SB this afternoon. Checked mine , serial#3885. Dynon’s email just said to contact support which I did. Haven’t heard back.( didn’t expect to yet)
 
Hey Brent,

How hard was it to override full nose up trim? Do you have an estimate of lbs/stick-force?

I'm asking because If I read the Ray Allen and Dynon manuals correctly, once you identify a runway trim condition and remove power to the AP Panel/trim system (trim servos not powered by SV-NET, but on separate circuit breakers), the elevator trim tab becomes a fixed object in what ever position the servo was powered off at.
 
Thanks for posting, I would not have known.
Mine is an affected SN, 1300+ hrs no issues, but now I am concerned. I contacted Dynon, they returned my call within 20 minutes. RMA was emailed to me immediately. They said 1-2 weeks turnaround. I pay shipping to them Dynon pays the rest.
GREAT company and service.
 
Does anyone have a schematic to wire a jumper so the trim will still work with the SV-AP Panel removed?
 
You will need a relay board

You will need a relay board to bypass the AP Panel because you will need to reverse the voltage polarity going to the trim motor.

The panel took the place of the relay board.

Note:

This has made me come up with another board idea to go with my SkyView Interconnect board. As soon as I finish the install I am presently working on, I will start working on a plug in play emergency bypass for the AP Panel. Will advise when it is done. Basically it will simply splice between the 15 pin connector and the AP Panel with a panel switch to active emergency bypass.

Brian
 
You will need a relay board to bypass the AP Panel because you will need to reverse the voltage polarity going to the trim motor.

The panel took the place of the relay board.

Note:

This has made me come up with another board idea to go with my SkyView Interconnect board. As soon as I finish the install I am presently working on, I will start working on a plug in play emergency bypass for the AP Panel. Will advise when it is done. Basically it will simply splice between the 15 pin connector and the AP Panel with a panel switch to active emergency bypass.

Brian

I am looking for a temporary jumper I can wire up to keep my trims working with the AP panel unplugged, (sent out for service).
 
I am looking for a temporary jumper I can wire up to keep my trims working with the AP panel unplugged, (sent out for service).

Whether you're creating a "cut-out" to electrically isolate a failed AP panel, or something to plug in to replace a out-for-service AP panel, you're still gonna need a way to 'rewire' the servos each time you run the trim motor. Not something you can "jumper" on-the-fly. You might be able to do it with a series of switches: one switch that completely isolates the trim servos from the rest of the upstream trim system, then other switches to run the servos. But, that would be just as complex and not as user friendly as just using a more tradition style relay deck.

Like Brian say's, you'll need a relay set up for each trim servo. And, for normal operation, you might even need a tune-able speed controller for each servo as well.
 
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AP Panel bypass

I am looking for a temporary jumper I can wire up to keep my trims working with the AP panel unplugged, (sent out for service).

One of the features the Dynon AP Panel does is act like a trim relay board. What it does is switch the polarity going to the trim motor.

Now if you want a 1960 design, with a DPDT (ON) OFF (ON) switch, (center OFF, Momentary Spring loaded to both ON), to move the trim servo.

This is the switch you need. One for each trim motor. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/elecproptglswtch.php?clickkey=10668367

The first one is how it is connected to the panel, the second one is how to connect the switch to the connector. One is for the pitch, and one is for the roll.

D102E329-874B-4524-8A8A-C8AE48CF180F.png

8F0ABECB-8545-472C-9F16-E46A050D6133.jpg

I can point you in the right direction to buy a simple nice relay board, and a schematic on how to hook it up to the connector for trim, but by the time you received the relay board, and make up the simple harness to make it work, yours will be back from Dynon.

Brian
 
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Thanks for posting, I would not have known.
Mine is an affected SN, 1300+ hrs no issues, but now I am concerned. I contacted Dynon, they returned my call within 20 minutes. RMA was emailed to me immediately. They said 1-2 weeks turnaround. I pay shipping to them Dynon pays the rest.
GREAT company and service.

Did they say if you are getting a new unit or just a fix of your old one?
 
Interesting.... I had an uncommanded nose up trim runaway in a flight about a year ago. I was able to trim back down, by holding the trim button after the uncommanded trim up timed out after 6 seconds, but as soon as I let go of the button it started trimming up again straightaway until the timer stopped it again at pretty much full nose up trim -Whilst the control pressures were pretty heavy, I did find by reducing my cruise speed it was still manageable, which is worth noting.

My work around was to trim back down to a neutral trim setting after the trim cut out timer stopped it trimming up, and then pull the fuse to complete my flight.

I double checked all buttons and wiring but there was no evidence of any wiring issues or intermittent shorts anywhere on the circuits from both control sticks.

My suspicions were with the Dynon AP Knob Panel, but after pulling the connector to that, remaking the connections, and finding no issues, I returned my 12 to service and have had no re-occurances. My serial AP Knob Serial# is way newer than those in the SB though, so it remains a mystery!

Paul
RV12is #121263
 
Your experience is very interesting. Vans engineering told me that the iS was not at risk for this type of failure. What you describe is consistent with what I experienced with one of the early serial number AP PANEL units. The sub panel with a switch I added, which will bypass the AP PANEL, is the only reason I am comfortable flying with this rare but serious failure risk.

Agree that at lower throttle setting, full nose up trim is easier to handle. Might be some thing for practice at high altitude occasionally.
 
…My suspicions were with the Dynon AP Knob Panel, but after pulling the connector to that, remaking the connections, and finding no issues, I returned my 12 to service and have had no re-occurances. My serial AP Knob Serial# is way newer than those in the SB though, so it remains a mystery!

Paul
RV12is #121263

It’s the Button Panel, not the Knob Panel, that’s subject to the TSB. The SV AP(button) Panel controls trim and auto-trim. I was glad to see that mine was about 50 above the covered range at serial #04324.
 

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It’s the Button Panel, not the Knob Panel, that’s subject to the TSB. The SV AP(button) Panel controls trim and auto-trim. I was glad to see that mine was about 50 above the covered range at serial #04324.

I am assuming this is the one with possible issues?

panel SN.jpg
 
It’s the Button Panel, not the Knob Panel, that’s subject to the TSB. The SV AP(button) Panel controls trim and auto-trim. I was glad to see that mine was about 50 above the covered range at serial #04324.

Yep - my bad, i meant the AP button panel!
 
My AP panel failed October 13, after trouble shooting with tech support sent panel in for repair. Returned October 18th and installed. Repair was $191.00. October 23rd TSB released. Emailed Dynon and they graciously refunded my money for the repair. Thanks DYNON!
 
Software mismatch message

I just received and installed my SV-AP-PANEL and now have the following messages: SOFTWARE MISMATCH AND AP PANEL OFFLINE.

My HDX has firmware 16.4.4 and the AP panel was returned with firmware 16.4.6

Although not yet on Vans download list, Dynon has 16.6.0 available.

Any ideas how to get them sync'd up?

Mitch
 
Go into maintenance mode and try forcing a network load which should reload all the software on the Dynon components. I think you need the 16.4.6 software on the USB. You can check the network performance afterward to see that it was correctly detected with the right software load.

SETUP MENU > SYSTEM SETUP > SKYVIEW NETWORK SETUP > FORCE NETWORK LOAD

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
I never trusted the manufacturer completely when they said it is safe and trim is only possible for three seconds at a time. Not knowing how this is done in a black box with electronics I thought I better don´t trust knowing that runaway trim is an extremely serious problem. So first I tested the aircraft with extreme trim adjustment both up and down and confirmed the aircraft is still controllable. Then I wired the power supply through a double pole switch one way to the trim or autopilot module and the other way to a springloaded switch where I can (alternatively) control the trim motor up and down without electronics inbetween - this way the module is completely out of the loop!
 
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