Van's Air Force
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Do you fly at night?
- Thread starter Mike D
- Start date
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
Sport Pilot = No night flying.
TODR
TODR
PaigeHoffart
Well Known Member
I think 1 & 2 are the same.
4) Accidentally flying into a cloud (when VFR)
- Did this in a large turbine aircraft in the final turn--nav called 500', and we lost sight of the runway.
- Ground fog can also be an issue, often you can see the runway lights through it, but vis can drop to 0/0 in the flare.
5) Spatial disorientation & landing illusions
- Blackhole illusion, flaring high, etc
6) Electrical failure
- Had a complete electrical failure in a Cessna. Out come the flashlights, and then we realize no landing light, no moon, and no pilot controlled lighting. Thankfully we had enough gas to make it to a continuously lit runway.
I still fly at night, but you can't mitigate a risk if you don't recognize it.
BTW, I think maintaining a continuous composite crosscheck between your instruments and outside on a night with no lunar illumination is a lot more difficult than flying "hard IFR" in a RV.
Paige
4) Accidentally flying into a cloud (when VFR)
- Did this in a large turbine aircraft in the final turn--nav called 500', and we lost sight of the runway.
- Ground fog can also be an issue, often you can see the runway lights through it, but vis can drop to 0/0 in the flare.
5) Spatial disorientation & landing illusions
- Blackhole illusion, flaring high, etc
6) Electrical failure
- Had a complete electrical failure in a Cessna. Out come the flashlights, and then we realize no landing light, no moon, and no pilot controlled lighting. Thankfully we had enough gas to make it to a continuously lit runway.
I still fly at night, but you can't mitigate a risk if you don't recognize it.
BTW, I think maintaining a continuous composite crosscheck between your instruments and outside on a night with no lunar illumination is a lot more difficult than flying "hard IFR" in a RV.
Paige
CSJohnson
Active Member
What's the MTBF of our engines?
I really enjoy flying at night for reasons already mentioned: smooth air, great views of city lights and sometimes stars, less traffic and radio chatter, etc. Of my 250 hours of flying almost 50% has been at night, which I believe is because I like to do day or weekend trips where we depart near sunrise, enjoy a day or weekend at our destination, and fly back at night.
Engine failure or cabin fire would be my biggest concerns, and while we're all trained to deal with an engine out, what's the probability? Yes, I know if it happens to you stat's are out the window, but is there a MTBF or some other metric on specific models or single-engine airplanes in general that would allow us to assess the risk?
As has already been said, everyone has their individual tolerances and perceptions of risk, and in reading some of the responses I started to question my own. I'd really never given flying at night it a second thought; though on 2nd thought, I guess I have:
1. My weather minimums are higher. No interest in flying low to stay under the ceiling or having any concern about visibility, etc.
2. Runways at both ends are hard surface, lit, and a continuously lit and towered field must be within 30 minutes of the destination (did have one occasion where pilot operated lighting failed).
3. Day or night I tend to fly cross-countries at 8,500 and 9,500 so if something does happen I have more options in terms of time and gliding distance.
4. Per my training 15 years ago, and even with GPS, my routes always overfly airports. While this is to increase safety by providing more options, it's benefit thus far has been for passengers that refuse to use the Little John in flight! (Flying over major roads was mentioned earlier and is also a great idea.)
5. I carry two handheld flashlights and a small one that I can strap on my head or clip on a hat, each with red/white light.
6. Handheld radio with VOR receiver/display and spare batteries. This after a an experience with a mid-flight alternator failure, drained battery, all electrical equipment dead, and with landing near sunset. Again, good training and flying at 5,500 made navigating to and landing at the field uneventful.
7. I always file a flight plan and get flight following on any cross-country, day or night.
8. I've always been very familiar with the planes I fly and the quality of their maintenance. No guarantee, but increases confidence.
So, while I said I've never given night flight a second thought, obviously due to training and experience, over time at least, I have.
Chris
I really enjoy flying at night for reasons already mentioned: smooth air, great views of city lights and sometimes stars, less traffic and radio chatter, etc. Of my 250 hours of flying almost 50% has been at night, which I believe is because I like to do day or weekend trips where we depart near sunrise, enjoy a day or weekend at our destination, and fly back at night.
Engine failure or cabin fire would be my biggest concerns, and while we're all trained to deal with an engine out, what's the probability? Yes, I know if it happens to you stat's are out the window, but is there a MTBF or some other metric on specific models or single-engine airplanes in general that would allow us to assess the risk?
As has already been said, everyone has their individual tolerances and perceptions of risk, and in reading some of the responses I started to question my own. I'd really never given flying at night it a second thought; though on 2nd thought, I guess I have:
1. My weather minimums are higher. No interest in flying low to stay under the ceiling or having any concern about visibility, etc.
2. Runways at both ends are hard surface, lit, and a continuously lit and towered field must be within 30 minutes of the destination (did have one occasion where pilot operated lighting failed).
3. Day or night I tend to fly cross-countries at 8,500 and 9,500 so if something does happen I have more options in terms of time and gliding distance.
4. Per my training 15 years ago, and even with GPS, my routes always overfly airports. While this is to increase safety by providing more options, it's benefit thus far has been for passengers that refuse to use the Little John in flight! (Flying over major roads was mentioned earlier and is also a great idea.)
5. I carry two handheld flashlights and a small one that I can strap on my head or clip on a hat, each with red/white light.
6. Handheld radio with VOR receiver/display and spare batteries. This after a an experience with a mid-flight alternator failure, drained battery, all electrical equipment dead, and with landing near sunset. Again, good training and flying at 5,500 made navigating to and landing at the field uneventful.
7. I always file a flight plan and get flight following on any cross-country, day or night.
8. I've always been very familiar with the planes I fly and the quality of their maintenance. No guarantee, but increases confidence.
So, while I said I've never given night flight a second thought, obviously due to training and experience, over time at least, I have.
Chris
We all fear things which we cannot control - like engine failure. Good news is, statistically, forced night landings are usually not fatal. Bad news is, the night fatal accident rate is horrible. People simply run into things; hills, trees, power lines. Add in spatial disorientation, and vfr into ifr.
Yes, I fly at night. I enjoy it. But, except for very familiar and well lit terrain, I follow the airways at night, and above the MEAs. And I make sure I don't run out of gas. With those precautions, I feel the risk is just slightly higher than day flights, and within my tolerance.
Yes, I fly at night. I enjoy it. But, except for very familiar and well lit terrain, I follow the airways at night, and above the MEAs. And I make sure I don't run out of gas. With those precautions, I feel the risk is just slightly higher than day flights, and within my tolerance.
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The thought of that single fan at the front stopping and the need to land blind hoping that there are no trees, buildings, cows or creeks in the way is enough to stop me 
. Now if I had a ballistic parachute I would be more inclined to do it.
Has anyone ever installed a ballistic parachute on an RV ?
. Now if I had a ballistic parachute I would be more inclined to do it.Has anyone ever installed a ballistic parachute on an RV ?
pierre smith
Well Known Member
MauiLvrs
Well Known Member
It has been said that the second fan just takes the aircraft to the crash site
YellerDaisy
Well Known Member
The moon is a major consideration for me. A pitch black night is a very scary thing, IMO. A night flight with a mostly full moon is generally a very pleasant experience (obviously, VFR). Here in the southwest there are some massive expanses with very few, if any, ground based lights so visual references can be few and far between. The moon is my friend.
Good comments about managing risk.
Good comments about managing risk.
Food for Thought,
The chance of a mid-air collision is substantially reduced at night because other aircraft are much easier to see with all the lights. There's also less airplanes out there.
Does that counteract the higher risk of a forced landing being fatal? I don't know.
I didn't vote, cause the airplanes I fly aren't good for night, and the lakes I land on don't have "runway" lights
The chance of a mid-air collision is substantially reduced at night because other aircraft are much easier to see with all the lights. There's also less airplanes out there.
Does that counteract the higher risk of a forced landing being fatal? I don't know.
I didn't vote, cause the airplanes I fly aren't good for night, and the lakes I land on don't have "runway" lights
1200 hours in a Cessna 207 flying night cargo, in some of the worst weather you can imagine never bothered me a bit. At that time almost half my total flight time was at night. But now... While I still do a fair amount of night in the RV, I have caught myself wondering about an emergency. So, yes, I do fly at night but I am more careful about it. I also won't fly at night without attitude reference. Even a clear night can leave you with very poor visual cues.
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Love night flying
Try to fly most every full moon phase! Also fly mostly first quarter phase and later due to early moon rise and percentage of moon illumination higher. Will often fly other nights but really enjoy first quarter to full phase the most especially with cumulus clouds to dance around. Absolutely gorgeous awe inspiring flights.
Wish I could afford some NVGs since green air has better lift!
Try to fly most every full moon phase! Also fly mostly first quarter phase and later due to early moon rise and percentage of moon illumination higher. Will often fly other nights but really enjoy first quarter to full phase the most especially with cumulus clouds to dance around. Absolutely gorgeous awe inspiring flights.
Wish I could afford some NVGs since green air has better lift!
Used To
I'm still only flying my 8KCAB so far, which has partial panel (any DFW RV-4/-8 offers to trade time?) so I miss night flying something terrrible! Won't fly dark without a horizon. My biggest concern is deer on the runway at my home base; they are always out near dusk.
Used to fly at night in the IFR Mooney, but a couple of hypoxia incidents scared me a lot back then on x-country flights.
I'm still only flying my 8KCAB so far, which has partial panel (any DFW RV-4/-8 offers to trade time?) so I miss night flying something terrrible! Won't fly dark without a horizon. My biggest concern is deer on the runway at my home base; they are always out near dusk.
Used to fly at night in the IFR Mooney, but a couple of hypoxia incidents scared me a lot back then on x-country flights.
turbo
Well Known Member
some of my most memorable flights have been on the florida east coast on a clear night. spectacular! i have 160 night of 6,000 total time. if i need to fly at night so be it. over water, yes i trust my engine. over forests, yes to fly in the north east you need to fly over trees.
