Composite Oxygen Bottle Fiasco

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Some years ago, I bought a composite oxygen bottle. I loved the light weight and high capacity. Somebody told me that those things needed to be hydro (pressure) tested every so often, and mine never had been, so I dropped it off to be hydro tested. Surprise! Per DOT regulations, those bottles have a 15 year life span and are to be discarded after that. Stainless steel tanks are good for 24 years, steel forever -- with appropriate regular testing, of course.

No point in saying who the vendor is, as their personnel have undoubtedly turned over in the interim. I know the very friendly salesman, who should have told me about the relatively short fixed lifetime, no longer works for them.

I'm 74 now, and doubt that the insurance company will be my friend for another 15 years, but still... what to do now? My particular physiology appreciates oxygen at lower altitudes than "the book" says is customary,..

 

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Found this interesting article: https://www.aviationconsumer.com/accessories/o2-bottle-refills-regulations-logistics/

 

[Freemasm]

Some years ago, I bought a composite oxygen bottle. I loved the light weight and high capacity. Somebody told me that those things needed to be hydro (pressure) tested every so often, and mine never had been, so I dropped it off to be hydro tested. Surprise! Per DOT regulations, those bottles have a 15 year life span and are to be discarded after that. Stainless steel tanks are good for 24 years, steel forever -- with appropriate regular testing, of course.

No point in saying who the vendor is, as their personnel have undoubtedly turned over in the interim. I know the very friendly salesman, who should have told me about the relatively short fixed lifetime, no longer works for them.

I'm 74 now, and doubt that the insurance company will be my friend for another 15 years, but still... what to do now? My particular physiology appreciates oxygen at lower altitudes than "the book" says is customary,..

No pressurization or cycle limit for filament wound/composite wrapped pressure vessels? Would have lost that bet.

 

[riobison]

Some years ago, I bought a composite oxygen bottle. I loved the light weight and high capacity. Somebody told me that those things needed to be hydro (pressure) tested every so often, and mine never had been, so I dropped it off to be hydro tested. Surprise! Per DOT regulations, those bottles have a 15 year life span and are to be discarded after that. Stainless steel tanks are good for 24 years, steel forever -- with appropriate regular testing, of course.

No point in saying who the vendor is, as their personnel have undoubtedly turned over in the interim. I know the very friendly salesman, who should have told me about the relatively short fixed lifetime, no longer works for them.

I'm 74 now, and doubt that the insurance company will be my friend for another 15 years, but still... what to do now? My particular physiology appreciates oxygen at lower altitudes than "the book" says is customary,..

Ed, I use a medical oxygen bottle from the local supplier. Told my aviation dr what I was doing and got a prescription for it and the price was right. They get their money on the refills and the insurance covers it.

Tim

 

[scsmith]

Thanks for posting this. I did not know about the life-limited bottles. You didn't mention aluminum bottles, but the article you linked says aluminum cylinders have no life limit as long as they are hydrotested every 5 years.

 

[Bdflies]

In a "previous life", I owned a welding/industrial gas supply company. We owned a lot of cylinders and were a DOT authorized retester. Ed is absolutely correct about the life limit for the composite cylinders. When they were first introduced, the life was shorter. That issue was revisited and the DOT increased the life limit. Everyone (in the industry) thought that the life limit would eventually go away, but it never did.
If I were in Ed's situation, I’d get a portable Oxygen intensifier. When I first heard about intensifiers as an Oxygen source in airplanes, I was very leery. It seems they work pretty well!

Bill

 

[RV6_flyer]

Two decades ago, I did my research and did NOT get a composite tank because of the limited life. My aluminum tank is 1/2 full and past the DOT 5-year inspection because it was NOT used in the past 5-years. O2 is nice to have when flying out west over high terrain and for me when flying more than one leg over 9,500 MSL. When I lived on the LEFT coast, I would take the tank to a local scuba shop for the DOT hydrostatic test. IF I was going to be making a few flights at or above 9,500, I would get my O2 tank hydrostatic test done and keep it full. IF unable to get it tested, I would buy another tank. When I looked into the Oxygen concentrators, they were more expensive than 6 to 8 O2 tanks like I would use in the RV. For the same money, I could have a new tank for the RV and two for refills in the hangar.

 

[BobTurner]

I’m always curious how often bottles fail the hydro test. I’ve never heard of any. That said, a local fire extinguisher service company tests Al bottles for $40.

 

[Draker]

I recently encountered a similar gotcha with high pressure paintball air tanks. Looks like the same rules apply: For fiber wrapped tanks, they need to be hydro-tested every 5 years, and have a max lifespan of 15 years at which point you need to trash them. Aluminum tanks also need to be hydro-tested every 5 years, but have unlimited lifespan assuming they keep passing hydro. Not sure if it's the same for O2 bottles.

One thing I always wondered about the 5 year hydro testing requirement: I know for sure nobody will fill tanks that have not been hydrotested, but are they safe to use after 5 years? For example, can you legally get one filled at 4 years, 11 months, and then continue to use it beyond the 5 year date?

 

[Walt]

Put together your own refill station!

 

[RV8JD]

One thing I always wondered about the 5 year hydro testing requirement: I know for sure nobody will fill tanks that have not been hydrotested, but are they safe to use after 5 years? For example, can you legally get one filled at 4 years, 11 months, and then continue to use it beyond the 5 year date?

Quote from the Aviation Consumer article linked above (and here for convenience):

"Worth mentioning is that you can still continue to use a cylinder that’s out of its test-by date, but it must be hydrostatic tested before its next refilling."​

​

(BTW, I'm still going to collect on that beer someday! )

 

[Dan 57]

Not sure about the possibilities over the pond, but around here quite a few of us do rent their bottles.

My so called 2l aluminum bottle usually lasts a season, solo flying with the O2D2. Winter comes I head to the local gas provider, and they hand me a full bottle over the counter. No filling or testing chores.
Costs are just short of $100 a year.

 

[rocketman1988]

I have seen scuba tanks fail a hydro test…

 

[Flying EMT]

The hydo should also be an inside borescope inspection. I have seen steel bottles with rust inside which makes them void. I imagine an aluminum bottle might get corrosion if filled at one time from a shady source. YMMV Ben

 

[swjohnsey]

Buy your own refill rig. It will pay for itself.

 

[airguy]

One thing I always wondered about the 5 year hydro testing requirement: I know for sure nobody will fill tanks that have not been hydrotested, but are they safe to use after 5 years? For example, can you legally get one filled at 4 years, 11 months, and then continue to use it beyond the 5 year date?

Yes. You just can't refill them after 5 years.

I used to own a high pressure air systems company serving air and compessors for paintball shops, scuba shops, fire departments, and some specialty oilfield stuff. That's where I got my screen name "Airguy", nobody could pronounce my last name and they just called me "The air guy". That was a hobby that got out of control, and turned into a career in oilfield compression.

We used to collect the bottles that failed hydro, and when we got drunk enough on a good weekend gathering we would hit them with high pressure to detonation. I had 25,000 psi available in my mobile trailer unit, we played for keeps. A scuba tank turning loose in the mid-7000 psi range is a lot of fun.

 

[Canadian_JOY]

The verdict is in... Using an Inogen G5 portable oxygen concentrator is the easiest way to go when it comes to getting rid of all these tanks and their issues with aging, pressure testing and refilling. There are lots and lots of reports now which substantiate excellent blood oxygenation using one of these Oxygen concentrators at lower altitudes (15,000 and below).

I was looking for a portable 02 setup for our aircraft... Now I'll be looking for an Inogen G5.

From another site (Beechtalk), a post by vendor Jon Abbots. I have NO affiliation whatsoever with this vendor or any other vendor of aircraft oxygen equipment. I'm merely a consumer who hasn't yet ponied up his cash for a reliable supply of 02.
==================
The Inogen G5 can produce up to 6LPM and can run on AC or DC. Our pilot package includes the unit, one 8 cell battery, carrying case, ac/dc chargers, 2- cannula's, Y splitter, Pulse Ox, Manual, shipping, and 5-year warranty for $1795. Below is a link if you would like more info or you can message me with any questions.

Pure Medical
828-544-1178
==================
I DO wish they would become a sponsor of VAF as this type of equipment has a clear safety benefit to aviators.

 

[Mike S]

We used to collect the bottles that failed hydro, and when we got drunk enough on a good weekend gathering we would hit them with high pressure to detonation. I had 25,000 psi available in my mobile trailer unit, we played for keeps. A scuba tank turning loose in the mid-7000 psi range is a lot of fun.

You sound like my kind of fun guy

 

[Flying EMT]

We used to collect the bottles that failed hydro, and when we got drunk enough on a good weekend gathering we would hit them with high pressure to detonation. I had 25,000 psi available in my mobile trailer unit, we played for keeps. A scuba tank turning loose in the mid-7000 psi range is a lot of fun.

And I thought we were crazy when we would shoot the expired 4500psi fiber wrapped bottles and watch them fly! (We had to put a chain on them or they might have gone into the next county!) BTW, a 9mm hollow point would not breach the bottle.

 

[airguy]

BTW, a 9mm hollow point would not breach the bottle.

Nope, too soft, mushrooms out and that spreads the load across a larger area. You need hardball to make a penetration.

I also shoot. A lot.

 

[bbaggerman]

Ed, I use a medical oxygen bottle from the local supplier. Told my aviation dr what I was doing and got a prescription for it and the price was right. They get their money on the refills and the insurance covers it.

Tim

Insurance to pay for your aviation oxygen?

 

[riobison]

Insurance to pay for your aviation oxygen?

A prescription for Medical Grade O2 is required in Canada. You can use it in the air or on the ground. It's totally legal at least this is how it works in Canada. And I choose in the Air. At least that is where my O2 count is down.

I tried to rent a bottle without the prescription and not a chance. And then I was given a lecture on how dangerous and flammable it is. Like come on now don't we all know that. Meanwhile, how many people have we all seen in wheelchairs out in the street banging butts (smoking) and sucking on O2?

Then they direct bill the insurance for it.

Its a stupid system that is overly complicated but that is the game. Lots of prescriptions that they should cover but they don't. Even winning this one I'm still losing over all.

Tim

 

[spatsch]

The verdict is in... Using an Inogen G5 portable oxygen concentrator is the easiest way to go when it comes to getting rid of all these tanks and their issues with aging, pressure testing and refilling. There are lots and lots of reports now which substantiate excellent blood oxygenation using one of these Oxygen concentrators at lower altitudes (15,000 and below).

I was looking for a portable 02 setup for our aircraft... Now I'll be looking for an Inogen G5.

From another site (Beechtalk), a post by vendor Jon Abbots. I have NO affiliation whatsoever with this vendor or any other vendor of aircraft oxygen equipment. I'm merely a consumer who hasn't yet ponied up his cash for a reliable supply of 02.
==================
The Inogen G5 can produce up to 6LPM and can run on AC or DC. Our pilot package includes the unit, one 8 cell battery, carrying case, ac/dc chargers, 2- cannula's, Y splitter, Pulse Ox, Manual, shipping, and 5-year warranty for $1795. Below is a link if you would like more info or you can message me with any questions.

Pure Medical
828-544-1178
==================
I DO wish they would become a sponsor of VAF as this type of equipment has a clear safety benefit to aviators.

The specs say max altitude 10000 feet. Do they just work less effectively above that or what happens?

Thx

Oliver

 

[Plummit]

Some years ago, I bought a composite oxygen bottle. I loved the light weight and high capacity. Somebody told me that those things needed to be hydro (pressure) tested every so often, and mine never had been, so I dropped it off to be hydro tested. Surprise! Per DOT regulations, those bottles have a 15 year life span and are to be discarded after that. Stainless steel tanks are good for 24 years, steel forever -- with appropriate regular testing, of course.

No point in saying who the vendor is, as their personnel have undoubtedly turned over in the interim. I know the very friendly salesman, who should have told me about the relatively short fixed lifetime, no longer works for them.

I'm 74 now, and doubt that the insurance company will be my friend for another 15 years, but still... what to do now? My particular physiology appreciates oxygen at lower altitudes than "the book" says is customary,..

Yup, had the same thing happen with my wrapped bottle. I started refilling the bottle myself but I just couldn't get that "feeling" out of my mind that there has to be a reason for the 15 year rule.

I ended up buying a new bottle from ACS, but I quizzed them on the MFG date, which is when the 15 year clock starts ticking. I wasn't going to buy a bottle that had been sitting on the shelf for a year (or longer). I was able to get a bottle that was only a couple of months old. It should last the the rest of my flying years...

-Marc

 

[RV10inOz]

I am an AEROX dealer in Australia, so do not buy it from me unless you are here

Order a size 4E-3 with a carry bag and talk to them about either the nearest filling station or supply of a trans filler rig.

Build My AEROX Portable Oxygen System!

Get the aviation oxygen system you need! Fly higher and safer with Aerox oxygen. Customize number of passengers, tank size, connected abilities, and more.

www.aerox.com

And do not get talked into the expensive competitor pulse system.....in my experience back to back they make no benefit of the Oxysaver cannula.

 

[RV10inOz]

Actually, was it a 50CU FT cylinder?

I can get you a ripper deal on one from Aerox.....They have some in stock that could be way less than you expect. Send me an email from my website www.candoitaustralia.com.au and I will put you in touch with the right people.

 

[rv8ch]

The specs say max altitude 10000 feet. Do they just work less effectively above that or what happens?

Thx

Oliver

Correct - I have tested my Inogen One G5 to about 14.5k on output settings 3/6 or 4/6 and stayed at about 98% saturation.

 

[bobnoffs]

the o2 concentrators have components that must be replaced too.

 

[Freemasm]

Nope, too soft, mushrooms out and that spreads the load across a larger area. You need hardball to make a penetration.

I also shoot. A lot.

Was actually a bit surprised by the lack of initially volunteered background info regarding the destruction of pressurized vessels. Things seem more balanced now.

 

[airguy]

Was actually a bit surprised by the lack of initially volunteered background info regarding the destruction of pressurized vessels. Things seem more balanced now.

Like Bubba who shot the jukebox, I make no claims of mental stability.

 

[larrynew]

…There are lots and lots of reports now which substantiate excellent blood oxygenation using one of these Oxygen concentrators at lower altitudes (15,000 and below)…

Correct - I have tested my Inogen One G5 to about 14.5k on output settings 3/6 or 4/6 and stayed at about 98% saturation.

I also tested an Inogene One G5 with the same results but rejected it because above 14.5k my O2 saturation started dropping quickly. And I only tested it solo. My wife flies with me on almost all long trips which are often above 14.5k.

I ended up getting the 4 place Mountain High system with the largest tank and oxygen conserving system. Very happy with it. We took a long trip to Alaska and the mountain NW and the bottle lasted until literally the last descent to home on the 30th day of our trip

 

[Roadjunkie1]

I tried to rent a bottle without the prescription and not a chance. And then I was given a lecture on how dangerous and flammable it is. Like come on now don't we all know that. Meanwhile, how many people have we all seen in wheelchairs out in the street banging butts (smoking) and sucking on O2?

Huh. Oxygen is flammable and dangerous? I believe if that were true none of us would be here. Oxygen is NOT flammable! It is an oxidizer and promotes flammability in other substances but is not, itself, flammable. Think gasoline mixed with oxygen: a rather flammable mixture that helps us get into the air. And get to the airport in the first place! I would go back there and have them show you how to ignite O2 coming out of a canister.

 

[riobison]

Huh. Oxygen is flammable and dangerous? I believe if that were true none of us would be here. Oxygen is NOT flammable! It is an oxidizer and promotes flammability in other substances but is not, itself, flammable. Think gasoline mixed with oxygen: a rather flammable mixture that helps us get into the air. And get to the airport in the first place! I would go back there and have them show you how to ignite O2 coming out of a canister.

Exactly, but try and talk to them about any of that. Anyway a medical O2 bottle is a very economical way to go once you have your prescription.

Tim

 

[Av8torTom]

Yes. You just can't refill them after 5 years.

I used to own a high pressure air systems company serving air and compessors for paintball shops, scuba shops, fire departments, and some specialty oilfield stuff. That's where I got my screen name "Airguy", nobody could pronounce my last name and they just called me "The air guy". That was a hobby that got out of control, and turned into a career in oilfield compression.

We used to collect the bottles that failed hydro, and when we got drunk enough on a good weekend gathering we would hit them with high pressure to detonation. I had 25,000 psi available in my mobile trailer unit, we played for keeps. A scuba tank turning loose in the mid-7000 psi range is a lot of fun.

What could go wrong???!!!

 

[walkman]

I have seen scuba tanks fail a hydro test…

I've seen them fail at the refill station

I've also seen a failure of the equipment (not tank) during a 100% O2 fill prior to a cave dive.

As a certified gas blender, technical diver, and friend of a guy who had all his clothes blown off and subsequently 2nd degree burns over a substantial portion of his body, please don't mess around with 100% O2 under pressure if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[walkman]

A scuba tank turning loose in the mid-7000 psi range is a lot of fun.

When cave diving we used to double stack the burst disks so we could get an extra 1000 psi in there

 

[Canadian_JOY]

The specs say max altitude 10000 feet. Do they just work less effectively above that or what happens?

Thx

Oliver

They work, plain and simple. I'm not an expert but have read multiple accounts of them working well up to and beyond 15,000. I have an acquaintance who uses his regularly at night to improve visual acuity (my principle interest). I hope to get a flight with him to try it out in person. He reports having used his to 13, 500 with two aviators and one machine while maintaining SPo2 93% or better.

 

[Canadian_JOY]

the o2 concentrators have components that must be replaced too.

The oxygen sieve is an infrequently replaced part. Just think of the number of folks we see walking around every day with an 02 concentrator slung over their shoulder or strapped to their wheelchair. The cost and PITA factor of maintaining a concentrator is far, far below that of trying to refill bottles.

 

[riobison]

The oxygen sieve is an infrequently replaced part. Just think of the number of folks we see walking around every day with an 02 concentrator slung over their shoulder or strapped to their wheelchair. The cost and PITA factor of maintaining a concentrator is far, far below that of trying to refill bottles.

I just swap out my empty medical grade bottle for a full one at the medical supply store and they bill the insurance company. No pain, no inconvenience, no battery to worry about trying to keep it charged. An above all, the insurance company pays for the refill.

Pretty simple.

Tim