Brass Fuel Selector Disassembly

[Jav8or]

Good day all!

My project tonight is to disassemble, sand and lube the selector. However, the last time I tried to take it apart, the center post wouldn’t budge.

My question: How much force should it take to pull the innards out? After removing the larger retaining nut, do I put the handle back on and pull the assembly out.

Any help appreciated.

 

[gasman]

Look here...... https://vansairforce.net/threads/fuel-selector-valve.91677/

 

[Ruready]

Good day all!

My project tonight is to disassemble, sand and lube the selector. However, the last time I tried to take it apart, the center post wouldn’t budge.

My question: How much force should it take to pull the innards out? After removing the larger retaining nut, do I put the handle back on and pull the assembly out.

Any help appreciated.

Dont even bother, give me an address and 10$ for shipping I will send you one of the better ones Piper superseded that old one with that dont freeze up like the John Denver one you have. Piper stopped using that brass plug deadly valve in the 70s and started using the plastic plug p/n 77413-02, have several of these spruce sells now called 6749 valve and is stamped AB on it, Anderson Brass. Dont use a knockoff 6749 without the Anderson Brass stamp. I bought a couple of the Piper 77413 valves NOS on ebay and the one in my plane will outlast me. I have 4 or 5 maybe, I will never use, give me 10 bucks for shipping and its yours. Also have a nice Allen valve I drilled out for BOTH tanks position but that one I need 100 bucks for
The top valve in 2nd pic is Piper 77413-02 and bottom is Anderson Brass 6749 valve that spruce sells, plugs are interchangable, 1st pic left valve is Piper 77413 and right valve is spruce 6749

 

[Jav8or]

Dont even bother, give me an address and 10$ for shipping I will send you one of the better ones Piper superseded that old one with that dont freeze up like the John Denver one you have. Piper stopped using that brass plug deadly valve in the 70s and started using the plastic plug p/n 77413-02, have several of these spruce sells now called 6749 valve and is stamped AB on it, Anderson Brass. Dont use a knockoff 6749 without the Anderson Brass stamp. I bought a couple of the Piper 77413 valves NOS on ebay and the one in my plane will outlast me. I have 4 or 5 maybe, I will never use, give me 10 bucks for shipping and its yours. Also have a nice Allen valve I drilled out for BOTH tanks position but that one I need 100 bucks for
The top valve in 2nd pic is Piper 77413-02 and bottom is Anderson Brass 6749 valve that spruce sells, plugs are interchangable, 1st pic left valve is Piper 77413 and right valve is spruce 6749

What’s the difference between 6749 and 6747?

Mine currently has four positions but only two are usable.

Are the posts interchangeable?

 

[Ruready]

I only know Piper valves and the AB 6749 valve I mentioned. Thought you had the old deadly 11383 valve with brass plug that freezes up, any brass plug valve I would throw in the trash. Pics would help. The Piper 77413 valve and the AB 6749 valve are the same valve, and are 4 position OFF OFF ON ON.

 

[Jav8or]

I only know Piper valves and the AB 6749 valve I mentioned. Thought you had the old deadly 11383 valve with brass plug that freezes up, any brass plug valve I would throw in the trash. Pics would help. The Piper 77413 valve and the AB 6749 valve are the same valve, and are 4 position OFF OFF ON ON.

That would be the version I have.

 

[Ruready]

They both are OFF OFF ON ON valves but entirely different valves, Piper used the Denver brass plug valve until mid 70s, after many crashes they superseded it with 77413 plastic plug valve and used it thru mid 80s than went to the Allen valve. Once again pictures would help identify your valve, easily identifiable from the outside the deadly Denver valve has that big nut on top the good delrin plug valve has a smaller nut on top

 

[Jav8or]

They both are OFF OFF ON ON valves but entirely different valves, Piper used the Denver brass plug valve until mid 70s, after many crashes they superseded it with 77413 plastic plug valve and used it thru mid 80s than went to the Allen valve. Once again pictures would help identify your valve, easily identifiable from the outside the deadly Denver valve has that big nut on top the good delrin plug valve has a smaller nut on top

 

[skelrad]

I have the valve that came with my 9A kit if you want it. Never used. Just message me if you would like it. No cost, just cover shipping.

 

[Ruready]

If that was my plane I would take that selector out of there and recycle that brass somewhere get rid of it. Take the one from the guy above or else I got one I can send you if you pay for shipping too get rid of that thing though

 

[Ruready]

I am home now, will get my fuel selectors out and see what I have, I know I have at least a couple extra ones I dont want around anymore collecting dust, the delrin plug brass valve will outlast your plane and never needs serviced, That 11383 deadly John Denver valve you have has an annual AD on it, and needs overhauled every few years because it freezes up... what killed Denver, lost control of the plane trying to get the vice grips to turn it after engine quit. Lots of peole have died because of problems with that brass plug valve.

 

[blaplante]

I've also been told that these (both types) are known for sucking air around the stem. Further that there is a SB (or AD?) for Navions that requires pulling the thing out and suction testing it at each CI. So I'm told by my A&P neighbor anyhow.
This all came up because of engine misfire at high power on my Bendix (Airflow same thing) system. Injection hates air bubbles. Bottom line if you have one of these and injection, and are getting any kind of high power random misfires this may be your culprit.

To test, disconnect at the servo, install clear tubing then an electric fuel pump to suck through the system. Bubbles not good. Wiggle the fuel valve handle, switch tanks, try off position. And no, there were no fuel leaks evident anywhere.

 

[Ruready]

These are the ones I have sitting in a box, dont need any of them. The one in the middle is the Allen valve and I drilled the plug out so it has a BOTH TANKS position now, the brass valve behind the Allen is the Anderson Brass wetherhead 6749 valve from Aircraft Spruce I also drilled the Delrin plug out for BOTH TANKS position on it. The other two brass valves are Piper 77413-002 valves one used off ebay and the one on left is NOS never been used, those two are OFF OFF ON ON only with no BOTH TANKS position.

 

[Ruready]

I've also been told that these (both types) are known for sucking air around the stem. Further that there is a SB (or AD?) for Navions that requires pulling the thing out and suction testing it at each CI. So I'm told by my A&P neighbor anyhow.
This all came up because of engine misfire at high power on my Bendix (Airflow same thing) system. Injection hates air bubbles. Bottom line if you have one of these and injection, and are getting any kind of high power random misfires this may be your culprit.

To test, disconnect at the servo, install clear tubing then an electric fuel pump to suck through the system. Bubbles not good. Wiggle the fuel valve handle, switch tanks, try off position. And no, there were no fuel leaks evident anywhere.

Only way I can see the valve letting air in is with a bad oring, the 77413 valve and AB 6749 aircraft spruce sells both have an oring around the cap and one around the stem or shaft and the one around the shaft is pressed up tight to the cap via that strong spring you see in my pic above, no air is getting in these valves if those orings and spring is doing its job

 

[gasman]

The seal of this valve is the design of the cone itself. The O rings back it up.

 

[RVFan671]

They both are OFF OFF ON ON valves but entirely different valves, Piper used the Denver brass plug valve until mid 70s, after many crashes they superseded it with 77413 plastic plug valve and used it thru mid 80s than went to the Allen valve. Once again pictures would help identify your valve, easily identifiable from the outside the deadly Denver valve has that big nut on top the good delrin plug valve has a smaller nut on top

I have the 77413 valve and it is starting to leak a little fuel out the shaft when I switch tanks. Are the MS part number orings able to support ethanol fuel? I run non ethanol right now but want to be capable to run ethanol at some point in the future.

 

[Ruready]

Take the valve apart and put new orings in it, lube with vasaline, not sure if thats good or not but has worked years for me

 

[blaplante]

Doesn't give the valve part number, but looks familiar in the picture --- here's the annual procedure for Navion

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB%3FID%3D40327427%26FileExtension%3D.PDF%26FileName%3DNavion%2520Service%2520Bulletin%2520No.%2520106A-Master.PDF&ved=2ahUKEwje4eHYn42OAxWQLEQIHennPKsQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw082-kd62Ztwv2R160ZNuvH

 

[pjc]

I have the 77413 valve and it is starting to leak a little fuel out the shaft when I switch tanks. Are the MS part number orings able to support ethanol fuel? I run non ethanol right now but want to be capable to run ethanol at some point in the future.

You can get Fluropolymer (generic for Viton) O-rings from Oringsandmore.com. I've been using these in my brass selector for years with
100LL, Eth10, and Eth0 mogas.

These will be more chemically resistant than the Buna (rubber) ones originally used.
The final 3 numbers after the dash in the MS part numbers shown in the diagram above (e.g. 018 or 011) are the sizes you need to order to get the MS equivalent o-ring.
Here's a link ... scroll down to find the size you require.

FKM Brown O'ring - Page 1 - OringsandMore

www.oringsandmore.com

Good luck,
Peter

 

[Ruready]

Doesn't give the valve part number, but looks familiar in the picture --- here's the annual procedure for Navion

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/Document/docBLOB%3FID%3D40327427%26FileExtension%3D.PDF%26FileName%3DNavion%2520Service%2520Bulletin%2520No.%2520106A-Master.PDF&ved=2ahUKEwje4eHYn42OAxWQLEQIHennPKsQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw082-kd62Ztwv2R160ZNuvH

Thats a different valve, its a 4way brass plug type more like the deadly John Denver valve, you can tell those brass plug valves that kill people by the big nut on top. The delrin plug valves that work fine forever have a smaller cap. Found another pic on a different SB, the approved valve is the one thats killed lots of people but the non approved delrin plug valve is the one that works better and lasts forever....

 

[blaplante]

Thats a different valve, its a 4way brass plug type more like the deadly John Denver valve, you can tell those brass plug valves that kill people by the big nut on top. The delrin plug valves that work fine forever have a smaller cap. Found another pic on a different SB, the approved valve is the one thats killed lots of people but the non approved delrin plug valve is the one that works better and lasts forever....

However, the brass plug valve is what was delivered with the kit that eventually came into my hands. I was aware of the Denver accident, but blissfully (?) unaware that the valve in my plane was one of these beasts. There are a lot of 6's flying, and a lot still have the original brass plug types in them.