Automotive alternator

[wcalvert]

300+ hours on a modified NAPA GOLD14684N with internal modification from Kitplanes article.

Alternator Mods Without Major Surgery - KITPLANES

Another way to modify a Nippondenso alternator for use with an external voltage regulator.

www.kitplanes.com

Alternator now (new from NAPA) is $145 plus about 2 hours of mods. Mod is reversible and would take about 30 minutes to swap into a new alternator with a screwdriver. Get a replacement at an auto parts store anywhere you'll ever fly. This would be called the "experimental" route. Or pay more $ somewhere else.

 

[Ruready]

Just a single point of data, and possibly contradicted by the experience of others here, but I was regularly going through these same automotive alternators on my plane, so much so that I kept a spare so I could quickly swap, until I purchased a Plane Power alternator. Haven't had a failure since.

Sounds like a pp dealer, my Denso is on its 9th year now with roughly 400 hours on it, absolutely no problems. $129. very well spent.

Looks like the price has even went down $103. now, https://www.ase-supply.com/product_p/nd-021080-0760.htm
heck of a deal on a bulletproof alternator, the internal reg works like a swiss watch, no need for an external regulator. The one in my Dodge truck lasted 20 years.

 

[RemyA]

Hello
I use an automotive alternator on my -8 for 12 years, no field wire. Works fine, except that when you start the engine, alternator is directly activated and can rise torque needed by stater to run the engine. Alternator with switchable field is better.

 

[Ruready]

Hello
I use an automotive alternator on my -8 for 12 years, no field wire. Works fine, except that when you start the engine, alternator is directly activated and can rise torque needed by stater to run the engine. Alternator with switchable field is better.

I agree, I always start with my battery and alternator off and flip them on after starting. The $103. Denso has a field wire to turn it on and off, great alternator.

 

[walkman]

Sounds like a pp dealer, my Denso is on its 9th year now with roughly 400 hours on it, absolutely no problems. $129. very well spent.

Looks like the price has even went down $103. now, https://www.ase-supply.com/product_p/nd-021080-0760.htm
heck of a deal on a bulletproof alternator, the internal reg works like a swiss watch, no need for an external regulator. The one in my Dodge truck lasted 20 years.

hardly

 

[Ruready]

hardly

Probably using china knockoffs than and not a real Denso. Denso alts are in most autos today and last years. I have read plenty of bad experiences with plane power alts, I will never touch one with a ten foot pole. Zero problems with my Denso. I dont care who you think you are, you dont buy something and turn around and sell it for 15 times what you pay for it, there is one word for that, I will not touch anything from a pos that does that. Its hard enough just to pay for gas today, Wil and Orville would be pissed to wake up today. Flying shouldn’t be just for rich men.

 

[walkman]

Probably using china knockoffs than and not a real Denso. Denso alts are in most autos today and last years. I have read plenty of bad experiences with plane power alts, I will never touch one with a ten foot pole. Zero problems with my Denso. I dont care who you think you are, you dont buy something and turn around and sell it for 15 times what you pay for it, there is one word for that, I will not touch anything from a pos that does that. Its hard enough just to pay for gas today, Wil and Orville would be pissed to wake up today. Flying shouldn’t be just for rich men.

whatever you're welcome to your opinion, just offering another data point

 

[RemyA]

Can you provide me P/N of Denso 60 A alternator that can fit on a RV-7 with field wire?
Thanks

 

[jmra72a]

Just curious what you are doing for overvoltage protection with the automotive alternator.

 

[rv8ch]

Just curious what you are doing for overvoltage protection with the automotive alternator.

I have a PP which has some kind of OV protection built in. I think most people that use normal auto alternators rely on the built-in OV protection, or just hope and pray that it doesn't happen. Or accept the risk of fried electronics, or assume that they will get a warning and have time to turn off the runaway alternator. Or assume that the devices that are on their buss will handle a typical OV event without permanent damage. I've seen arguments for all these over the last few decades, many of which are on VAF or on the Aeroelectric mailing list. (http://forums.matronics.com/)

 

[Paul 5r4]

I love my automotive alternator and here's why. I had alt failure on a cross country few years ago and it was a Sunday. The failure mode was an over voltage situation... it is internally regulated. (My thoughts on overvoltage post 59 above... our avionics are rated up to something like 30 volts so they should be fine if you can get the alt switched off quickly. I have a 12 volt system. My failure was volts began to fluctuate upwards of 15-16 when I shut it down). Ok, back to my story. It was a Sunday. I had shut down the alt in flight and landed because I knew what I had to do. Nice man gave me a ride into town where I purchased a new alt for IIRC $120. Went back and changed it out in a couple hours. Remember this was a Sunday. Now if I had needed a certified alt, (certified plane), or just wanted a certified alt it would have been a whole different story. Wait till the next day to order and overnight one from ACS---->$$$$$. And if you have the wife/girlfriend with you now you'll also need a place to stay so add a hotel room oh, and don't forget dinner and breakfast. Make that a couple nights in a hotel and dinners because it's ordered on a Monday and you'll receive it Tuesday sometime. You're starting to get the picture. Even if it doesn't last as long as a more expensive certified one... IMO the availability and cost far out way any downside. When I got back to my home base. I took the failed alternator back to O'Rileys and they offered me a refund. Instead I took another alternator so now I have a spare ready to go. I am VFR only. If I was IFR then I believe I'd go with certified for sure.

 

[airguy]

I love my automotive alternator and here's why. I had alt failure on a cross country few years ago and it was a Sunday. The failure mode was an over voltage situation... it is internally regulated. (My thoughts on overvoltage post 59 above... our avionics are rated up to something like 30 volts so they should be fine if you can get the alt switched off quickly. I have a 12 volt system. My failure was volts began to fluctuate upwards of 15-16 when I shut it down). Ok, back to my story. It was a Sunday. I had shut down the alt in flight and landed because I knew what I had to do. Nice man gave me a ride into town where I purchased a new alt for IIRC $120. Went back and changed it out in a couple hours. Remember this was a Sunday. Now if I had needed a certified alt, (certified plane), or just wanted a certified alt it would have been a whole different story. Wait till the next day to order and overnight one from ACS---->$$$$$. And if you have the wife/girlfriend with you now you'll also need a place to stay so add a hotel room oh, and don't forget dinner and breakfast. Make that a couple nights in a hotel and dinners because it's ordered on a Monday and you'll receive it Tuesday sometime. You're starting to get the picture. Even if it doesn't last as long as a more expensive certified one... IMO the availability and cost far out way any downside. When I got back to my home base. I took the failed alternator back to O'Rileys and they offered me a refund. Instead I took another alternator so now I have a spare ready to go. I am VFR only. If I was IFR then I believe I'd go with certified for sure.

Keep in mind that overvoltage protection, and GOOD overvoltage protection, is required when using an EarthX battery in the plane. If an alternator goes into full-tilt-boogie and the voltage starts to ramp up, the BMS system in the EarthX battery will cut off the battery at 15.5 volts (from their user manual) to prevent damaging the battery cells. Without the battery in the circuit to absorb the excess power coming from the alternator, the bus voltage can almost instantly ramp up into the 60-volt range, taking out all your expensive avionics. This is one of the primary reasons I don't like an internally regulated alternator - I want to be able to isolate the field, either manually via a switch or automatically with an overvoltage trip device.

Previously discussed on this forum here...
https://vansairforce.net/threads/over-voltage-required-for-earthx-battery.154137/

 

[9GT]

B&C used to offer an over-voltage protection module for about $25. I used one when I built my RV-10 and used an OTC Denso alternator. I replaced all that with a B&C alternator and their external voltage regulator when the alternator crapped out at 90 hours. I looked on their website but they no longer offer that module. I am pretty sure there are online plans for a DIY module somewhere. Maybe I am over cautious, but I would not risk my expensive avionics flying without one.

 

[Paul 5r4]

Greg, All true. I don't use an earth X. I have two APEX batteries. Most often used for electric wheel chairs etc. They work great.
I do get a little warm fuzzy that it is internally regulated but... With that said, the scenario you've described has crossed my mind!

 

[jmra72a]

I currently have the Plane Power model 99-1012 alternator that failed at 300 hours. I have replaced it at the high cost ($995 + $200 core) and then had my old one repaired. I like the internally regulated unit as it is a simple light weight installation. I have it installed with a prebuilt IFR panel from Advanced Flight System, utilizing their ACM module and an Earth-X battery. Just love it. It is my understanding that the ACM also has over voltage protection built in. If the ACM module sees greater than 16 volts it will stop providing voltage to the alternator field. If the alternator runs away the 60 Amp ANL fuse provides protection for the over current condition.

I have considered going to the automotive alternator for ease of servicing and lowering the cost of the replacement unit.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

If the alternator runs away the 60 Amp ANL fuse provides protection for the over current condition.

Wouldn't current decrease if voltage increases?
I've assumed the big fuse is to protect against a dead short of the B-lead to airframe ground.

 

[litgourley22]

Alright, so my PP alternator defecated the bed this past week and I’m hard pressed to play $1300 for a new alternator if this Denso replacement truly works fine.

I read most of the thread but couldn’t understand if I can take the recommended Denso 60A alternator and install as a direct replacement for the Plane power alternator. Can someone confirm for me that I will or will not need to reclock the alternator for installation? And also if I’d require some additional over voltage protection? I’d be willing to try the modification but since I’m not an electrical guy or an alternator genius I’d like to avoid if possible.

 

[jmra72a]

Wouldn't current decrease if voltage increases?
I've assumed the big fuse is to protect against a dead short of the B-lead to airframe ground.

I was describing two different modes of failure. Sorry if this created some confusion

 

[rv8ch]

Alright, so my PP alternator defecated the bed this past week and I’m hard pressed to play $1300 for a new alternator if this Denso replacement truly works fine.

I read most of the thread but couldn’t understand if I can take the recommended Denso 60A alternator and install as a direct replacement for the Plane power alternator. Can someone confirm for me that I will or will not need to reclock the alternator for installation? And also if I’d require some additional over voltage protection? I’d be willing to try the modification but since I’m not an electrical guy or an alternator genius I’d like to avoid if possible.

If you type this search in google, you will have hours of reading that will explain what you need to do.

site:vansairforce.* denso alternator

BTW, if I were in your situation, I would seriously consider using the Monkworkz solution - assuming you have the pad free, and your normal current requirements are low enough. https://monkworkz.com/shop/

 

[EarthX Lithium]

Keep in mind that overvoltage protection, and GOOD overvoltage protection, is required when using an EarthX battery in the plane. If an alternator goes into full-tilt-boogie and the voltage starts to ramp up, the BMS system in the EarthX battery will cut off the battery at 15.5 volts (from their user manual) to prevent damaging the battery cells.

Hi Greg, I just happened to see this and I would like to make a clarification on what happens in a failed regulator or over voltage situation. Here is a link to our FAQ page and it is also listed in the manual that will be useful:

https://earthxbatteries.com/faqs/

I copied it here too:

Does the BMS shut down the battery in an over voltage situation?
No.
Aircraft electrical system over-voltage protection is provided by an independent over-voltage protection device typically built into the alternator regulator. In the event of an alternator regulator failure where the voltage increases to above 16 volts, your regulators over voltage protection device is the first line of protection for it should operate in < 1 second. The regulator over-voltage protection device shuts down the alternator by removing the field (pops the field breaker). If the alternator doesn’t shutdown, the EarthX BMS’s over-voltage protection will block incoming charge current after a 3 second delay above 16 volts. The time delay is to allow the aircraft alternator over voltage protection to activate first. The discharge current (current out of battery) is unaffected in this situation. The circuit is like a diode, blocking flow in one direction (charge current into the battery), while allowing current to flow from the battery (discharge current). Once the alternator is shutdown or fails and the voltage returns to < 15 volts, the BMS’s over-voltage protection automatically resets (allowing charge current).

 

[gasman]

Not only does Spruce ask $1572.00 for the Plane Power alternator, they want your core or add another $200.00...... $1772.00!!!

Core Return Policy​

Any unit being returned for core or warranty core credit shall be, as removed from the engine, complete and not disassembled. No core or warranty core credit will be allowed for automotive units. Units that are rusty or cannot be overhauled for any reason will be classified as scrap, having no value. Units which have been weld repaired, as well as units which have been disassembled and then reassembled with old parts, will also be classified as scrap, having no value. A percentage of the core value will be charged for all missing or damaged parts. At no time will the damaged or missing parts charge on any unit exceed the core value of that unit.

1. Core will only be accepted for credit 12 months from date of invoice.
2. Cores returned in excess of cores invoiced will not be accepted.
3. Cores must be of like purchase, a directly superseded unit or replaced unit when installing an STC'd product.
4. Competitive product cores are acceptable returns.
5. Cores must have a legible data tag for part and serial number verification.
Note: Customer will need to provide core for overhaul in the event our supplier does not have cores available to overhaul.​

......................................................................................................................................
Very interesting as Plane Power does not offer rebuilt units. Are they using the cores as new units?? Anyone that is requiring a core charge, and selling me a NEW unit without offering a rebuilt, I will NOT do business with them.

I am running a Plane Power on my RV6A as a replacement of a PP that failed within 100 hours. I will not purchase another due to their current prices and their core policy.

I would like to see Anti-splat make the brackets to fit the popular (discussed) Denso unit to make it easier to transition to Denso and a LR3D-14 unit with the conversion instructions of the alternator from Kitplanes.

 

[litgourley22]

If you type this search in google, you will have hours of reading that will explain what you need to do.

site:vansairforce.* denso alternator

BTW, if I were in your situation, I would seriously consider using the Monkworkz solution - assuming you have the pad free, and your normal current requirements are low enough. https://monkworkz.com/shop/

Thanks. A buddy of mine found an automotive alternator that should be a direct fit besides changing out the connection that goes into the regulator, Wilson is the brand but I think it might be a “Denso” knock-off. Link below. Will report back with results.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/wilson/alternators---starters/alternator/f7cab2ae3cc0/wilson-55-amp-alternator-new/wil0/702912534

What are the benefits of that Monkworkz Generator?

 

[Jetmart]

Thanks. A buddy of mine found an automotive alternator that should be a direct fit besides changing out the connection that goes into the regulator, Wilson is the brand but I think it might be a “Denso” knock-off. Link below. Will report back with results.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/wilson/alternators---starters/alternator/f7cab2ae3cc0/wilson-55-amp-alternator-new/wil0/702912534

Great find. I have been looking for one. What engine are you putting it on? Appreciate reporting back with steps to make it fit.

 

[litgourley22]

Great find. I have been looking for one. What engine are you putting it on? Appreciate reporting back with steps to make it fit.

Putting it on an IO-360. Previously had an AL12-EI60/B. Working on figuring out a new mounting setup with a 2-prong wire. Here’s some pictures comparing the two visually. I will also have to flip the alternator to have the b-lead and connector on top, which will probably require a new mounting bracket.

So, not a direct fit like I originally thought but it’s not going to require a reclock and is saving me $1000 in cash, for about 6-9 hours of research/prep to swap to this auto alternator.