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Are you guys feeling the pinch?

S

shiney

Well Known Member
It's a bit off topic but we're getting lots of press over here about the state of the US economy and the looming recession. Is the man on the street (not the Wall street) feeling the the down turn yet and is the housing market as bad as we are hearing and how is affecting you all?


Shiney
 
Yes.

Housing market is killing me, have a house I have been trying to sell for about 2 years.

Also, everything oil/petroleum based is climbing like a Harmon Rocket.
 
The over side of it

It's time to stock up some cash as people try to liquidate assets to pay their bills. You may find some good deals on aircraft parts in the future if things continue downward.
 
U.S. housing market off topic

The U.S. housing martket is just killing our lumber and OSB (panel) export markets. But then again, these companies only exist for US trade. Wholesale market on 3/8" strand board 24 months ago...$17.90CAD. Today $6.15CAD. California normaly uses more strand board than all of canada!
 
Not me

The news media lives and breathes on bad news.
The so called down turn has not affected me. The real estate market in Austin has been fairly stable and my house has appreciated since I bought it 2.5 years ago.

Some real estates markets were going up at unsustainable rates and depending on when you bought, you could be hurting. Overall, the economy is strong. Last night I heard a news report referring to Astronomical 6% Mortage Rates and I had to laugh. When I bought my first house in the late '70's, I was paying over 11% - which was the market rate at the time.

I may be wrong but I think a lot of the problem is people just living beyonds their means - which is encouraged by lenders - and now thing are just going through a normal correction.
 
Construction in CO is off

All the residential subs are freaking out or bugging out. I've seen it happen before and it's not pretty. Guys undercutting each other just to put men to work. Luckily I work in commercial flooring replacement. Lots cheaper to remodel than build new. Hospitals keep going, govt. buildings keep going, the airport keeps going, etc.
 
I agree with you Rick,
I will likely get flames for this but the big problem IMHO is people buying stuff they can't afford. I have not felt a pinch either, my wife and I have been living a cash only lifestyle and it has really relieved a lot of stress. Take it for what's it worth but anyone fighting with money should check out the book "The total money makeover" by Dave Ramsey worth a read:D
 
It's looking better...

The housing situation certainly hurt the US economy. Many people made a lot of money as the prices went up, and now many are loosing money as prices fall. In general, prices of houses are still much higher than they would have been, based on prior years growth, had it not been for vast speculation in the housing market. An interesting web site to see the price change is http://www.housingtracker.net/ . After considerable news coverage of the housing crisis, I had been convinced that a recession was a certainty by mid-summer 2008.

However, the end of November brought good Christmas retail sales, and the stock market has continued to increase. Employment numbers are very good. Housing inventories are dropping across the US. Gas prices have been dropping recently due to lower demand (I bought a Hybrid). The devalued dollar has also improved sales of US goods overseas (e.g., 8 weeks lead time on an RV-9A wing kit when two months ago it was in stock). Therefore it is possible that the resiliency of the US Economy has already absorbed the housing crisis and is working it?s way out of the ?impending? recession. Could the media be wrong? :eek:

There is always a possibility of a major change, say for example, a shift of oil exchange currency from the Dollar to the Euro, terrorist activity or China playing monetary games with the credit they own. But I am encouraged that we may have seen the end of the effects of the housing crisis on the US economy. Continued stock market growth may once again attract investment money which in turn will improve the value of the US Dollar.

OK, maybe I?m just in a good mood because I ordered my RV-9A wing kit today. :)
 
You are right!!

KirkGrovesRV8 said:
I agree with you Rick,
I will likely get flames for this but the big problem IMHO is people buying stuff they can't afford.
Click to expand...

Man, you are right on this one. I know so many people who are up to their arse in credit card debt. They live the lifestyle but don't have any cash resources available and no emergency fund.

I hate owing money. I am currently retired but will go back to work in Febl. All I have is my house payment. I'm doing a HELOC to fund my IFR and Heli IFR add on. Since there is a job at the end I'll have it paid off with in two months. I'll be nervous until it is.

When building the plane the only "barrowing" I'd do is with a HECL or HELOC. At least you can get those big ticket items and make the interest deductible.

I hate the commercials on TV where everyone is using a CC to pay and all of sudden the line stops because someone breaks out cash and they look at him like he has a 3rd eye. The CC companies are propogating the problem.

I've seen people use a debit or CC for Big Gulp and a candy bar. Please, GMAFB!!!!
 
RV7Guy said:
I hate the commercials on TV where everyone is using a CC to pay and all of sudden the line stops because someone breaks out cash and they look at him like he has a 3rd eye. The CC companies are propagating the problem.

I've seen people use a debit or CC for Big Gulp and a candy bar. Please, GMAFB!!!!
Click to expand...

Darwin, I am totally with you on this one.

I really hate that series of ads.
 
Well Said Rick!

Rick_A said:
The news media lives and breathes on bad news.
The so called down turn has not affected me. The real estate market in Austin has been fairly stable and my house has appreciated since I bought it 2.5 years ago.

Some real estates markets were going up at unsustainable rates and depending on when you bought, you could be hurting. Overall, the economy is strong. Last night I heard a news report referring to Astronomical 6% Mortage Rates and I had to laugh. When I bought my first house in the late '70's, I was paying over 11% - which was the market rate at the time.

I may be wrong but I think a lot of the problem is people just living beyonds their means - which is encouraged by lenders - and now thing are just going through a normal correction.
Click to expand...

Well said Rick... we actually needed a cooling off period. If there are no adjustment periods, the economy will crash in a big way. Here in the Austin, Texas market we were over due.
 
I use a CC for everypurchase I can to get the Air miles!!!
I then pay it off every month. This way I feel like I am getting something for nothing.
 
Major market cities enjoyed a big boom in recent years; now they're seeing a big bust. A lot of smaller markets (and this is a big country) are doing just fine. Housing never went crazy. It's not dropping a lot now, and if you don't want to sell anyway, who cares?

Here in Montgomery (south Alabama) new home starts are slow but not stopped. I'm selling a few less trucks to contractors, but I just saved about 25% on a new roof for my house; less demand, better price.

I was listening to a radio story the other day about a 25 year old kid who had worked retailing subprime mortages to people who couldn't afford them. He made big money, but he drank the Kool-aid and bought big houses for his Mom, his sister, and himself, all on ARM's. Nice thought, but of course all are now in foreclosure. I had a hard time feeling sorry for him, but the radio host was treating him like a saint. The media....sheesh.
 
I bought my first house in 2003 and stayed away from ARMs even though I was being pressured at the time. Unless you're planning on selling the house well before the adjustment happens, how can you justify signing into one of those mortgages?

My wife and I haven't felt the pinch too badly. I know several folks that are sweating things right now but that's because they were all laid off recently. There's a nice house across the street from ours that's been for sale for almost 2 years. It's priced well below what I would expect the market price to be, but of course I haven't really looked at market prices since we bought our house. Not needing a HELOC at the moment, I really don't know what my house's value is. Frankly I think I sleep better NOT having to know... ;)
 
recession is not the true enemy.

Even though there may be talk about a recession and it is possible that it could show up, it is still a long way off if it does indeed even make it to the plate. Just my opinion based on research for my own retirement needs but I do not believe recession is imminent. Besides, if it is going to happen we will not know it until at least two months after it has taken a hold of the economy. There is just no way to track the movement of a recession in real time.

As far as the housing market plunging our economy into recession, I agree with the previous posts concerning the fact that too many people have over extended themselves economically. The reality is that if you are not currently in the market to sell your house in one of the large (and might I say over priced) big city housing markets you should be just fine.

Do you have a job? Is that job secure? Can you save for retirement? Are you doing so? If you can answer yes to these questions then you should be able to weather any economic storm that comes along. On the other hand, if you cannot answer yes to these questions then it is time to evaluate your spending philosophy!

As stated earlier, these CC company commercials prodding consumerism along as if it is a duty and responsibility to conform and to uphold societies greater good is hog wash.

Credit is a great tool if used wisely (charging a Big Gulp and a Snickers to a credit card is not spending wisely!). Credit cards (such a misnomer) should never be used for credit. They should be used as a CHARGE CARD. Pay your credit cards off each month and you will be surprised at how much money you can put away in the bank each month. Then you can use that money for important things like RV kits, engines, avionics and fuel to feed your vagabond ways! :D
 
From the US Labor Dept.:

The media is at it again. People are spoiled by the amazing economic growth we've had for quite some time now. So, if the upward trend bends to a little less of an increase, those who overextended themselves get in trouble. Industries or groups tend to exaggerate things when they know the taxpayer can be bilked to bail them out. From the Labor Dept. recently:

"Today, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released new jobs figures ? 94,000 jobs created in November. Since August 2003, more than 8.3 million jobs have been created, with more than 1.5 million jobs created over the 12 months that ended in November. Our economy has now added jobs for 51 straight months ? the longest period of uninterrupted job growth on record. The unemployment rate remains low at 4.7 percent.

The U.S. Economy Remains Strong, Flexible, And Dynamic

* Real GDP grew at a strong 4.9 percent annual rate in the third quarter of 2007. The economy has now experienced six years of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8 percent a year since 2001."
 
Plastic

RVbySDI said:
As stated earlier, these CC company commercials prodding consumerism along as if it is a duty and responsibility to conform and to uphold societies greater good is hog wash.

Credit is a great tool if used wisely (charging a Big Gulp and a Snickers to a credit card is not spending wisely!). Credit cards (such a misnomer) should never be used for credit. They should be used as a CHARGE CARD. Pay your credit cards off each month and you will be surprised at how much money you can put away in the bank each month. Then you can use that money for important things like RV kits, engines, avionics and fuel to feed your vagabond ways! :D
Click to expand...

Charge card, I like the term. To operate in this society you need a "charge card" of some kind. Tough to get fuel out of a card lock pump without one. Ever tried to rent a car without your trusty card? Good luck. I actually enjoy paying my charge card bill in full every month. I'm sure that it makes the card company nuts. Paying in full on your "no annual fee" card puts you a little ahead of the game. Collecting "points" of any kind is a bonus that the cash customer isn't going to see. Plus, you get to float on their money for a short time.

Saw a stat recently that said the average cardholder had almost $10,000 in debt. Yikes!:eek:

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Man, reading these threads is always depressing to me (makes me feel like I should sell my 7 sometimes...). My wife and I are on our second home (fixed-NO ARM's), not in the market to sell, but we do have debt in the form of student loans, credit cards, cars, etc...We manage our Ccard debt as wisely as we can with low interest (.99 or 1.99) transfers, and keep other purchases off of them. We use a debit for almost all purchases, and the Ccards are emergency only. BUT, Ccard debt is a fact of life for us right now. I do have a five year plan that we're one year in to that will have a positive result at the end, but there will still be work to do. This plan is in place in order to be able to fly the 7 when it's done someday...

Can't comment on the economy (other than aircraft sales) because I choose not to follow it.
 
Things are tough

Things are tough right now and some major parts of the economy are struggling to survive. The automobile industry is just one of these. We are doing fine but I am not taking it for granted. I believe it is a time to be conservative. I was jobless for 5 months once long ago and I know about proud people living in cars if they are lucky, no insurance, no health care, etc. From their perspective it is almost hopeless but asking the question of people who own airplanes will not reveal that view.

Bob Axsom
 
For me, things are actually looking better than they have in some time. Given the fact that the airplane project start is impending, we've done a lot to stabilize our finances. Sarah is working full time, I'm working full time (from home), which I've never done. For my side business, which was my primary occupation until 2 1/2 months ago (digital marketing; web/print design, search engine optimization, etc.), things have actually picked up lately. It seems to me that many businesses who had no need for internet promotion have looked to use the 'net to recover what the offline economy has cost them as of late.

As for credit, we don't use any, mainly as a result of seriously working on repairing the standard college credit idiocy, plus student loans, etc. We're well on the way to a complete fix, but it's no fun in the process.

Mike
 
shiney said:
It's a bit off topic but we're getting lots of press over here about the state of the US economy and the looming recession. Is the man on the street (not the Wall street) feeling the the down turn yet and is the housing market as bad as we are hearing and how is affecting you all?


Shiney
Click to expand...

Yup - petrol has just shot up to the equivalent of 40p per litre and sales tax here in Vermont just increased to an obscene 6% - How much is gas and VAT in the UK? Everyone I talk to is doing just fine - but listening to the news they are all worried about their neigbours. Go figure! Besides the UK press (with the possible exception of the Torygraph), the BBC and chattering classes just love sticking it to Uncle Sam.

Just my 2 cents

Jim Sharkey
 
I actually enjoy paying my charge card bill in full every month. I'm sure that it makes the card company nuts. Paying in full on your "no annual fee" card puts you a little ahead of the game. Collecting "points" of any kind is a bonus that the cash customer isn't going to see. Plus, you get to float on their money for a short time.
Click to expand...

Guess what the banking industry calls those of us who pay off the cards each month.........Deadbeats!! :D
 
"tell us about the plane crash with a gleam in your eye"

Just turn off the news and live. The news industry only prospers if they can invent trouble...

There will always be people that choose to live outside their means...and those people are now suffering with ARM's...did they really think things would be OK when their house payments drastically increased?

Those people who live in certain regional housing markets where an el cheapo frame house sells for a million dollars were also living in fantasyland when they double mortgaged that house and now they can't sell it for what they valued it at...again, living beyond their means.

Here in the US, if you don't have a job you either don't want a job or you've (in the immortal words of Sam Kinnison) "set your career goals a little too high."

And the whole time the news media is trying to invent the next catastrophe...just turn it off and enjoy life.
 
Sorry if this is on a tangent...

OK, I've got to chime in here because this has to do with something that pi$$e$ me off. I don't want to get into a political debate, so please go easy on me when I say that I'm a Republican. :cool:

What really angers me is the Mortgage Freeze that Bush recently put in place. Why should ANYONE have to relieve those who are irresponsible of their financial burden? Have they ever heard of Accountability?

I haven't read the details of Bush's plan yet, but I REALLY hope that it includes something to the effect of "if you take advantage of this offer, your credit score will take on a shiny new black-mark". If someone signed a contract for a mortgage or credit then they need to be responsible for their obligation to that contract...if they're not, then hold them accountable. This "Get out of Jail Free Card" is ridiculuous! :mad:

OK, I'm done ranting. :D
 
Aw, common Doug, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with RVs.

RVs. Wow, what a concept.
 
RV7Guy said:
Man, you are right on this one. I know so many people who are up to their arse in credit card debt. They live the lifestyle but don't have any cash resources available and no emergency fund.

I hate owing money. I am currently retired but will go back to work in Febl. All I have is my house payment. I'm doing a HELOC to fund my IFR and Heli IFR add on. Since there is a job at the end I'll have it paid off with in two months. I'll be nervous until it is.

When building the plane the only "barrowing" I'd do is with a HECL or HELOC. At least you can get those big ticket items and make the interest deductible.

I hate the commercials on TV where everyone is using a CC to pay and all of sudden the line stops because someone breaks out cash and they look at him like he has a 3rd eye. The CC companies are propogating the problem.

I've seen people use a debit or CC for Big Gulp and a candy bar. Please, GMAFB!!!!
Click to expand...

I agree with all except for the debit card!

The debit card is just like using cash! It comes straight out of your account that you have money in! I use a debit card or my American Express Delta Skymiles card for EVERY purchase! I rarely have cash. I racked up over 100,000 skymiles this year alone. The skymiles really come in handy when you get stuck in Abilene, Tx on your way home from LOE(RV related)!
 
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Hey Jim, calm down, I asked the question becuase I'm interested in getting your side of the story becuase I too believe that London, the BBC and the and chattering classes do not represent the truth, they certainly don'r represent me. If the point that you are making is that we are paying too much for our sales tax and fuel then heck, I couldn't agree with you more, but hey, my parents chose to have me hear, I didn't get much of a say in it! And trust me when I tell you this, the good old British public do not go around sticking it to Uncle Sam apart from those uncles of ours who don't know where Britain is!
 
To the point, I haven't felt a thing. Neither have most people, although everyone seems to worry about the "other guy" being hurt. The housing market was IMHO a situation brought on by greed, and it has hurt some lending institutions. Now I'll bet all of us will have to bail 'em out. Fuel prices are high, but most people can live with them.

Credit cards are a problem, but only among the stupid (ok, just my opinion here.) If you use it, pay it off every month. If you can't pay it off, don't use it. I do buy avgas for my RV-9A on credit (NOW we are RV related!)

We are nearing an election year and the press likes to stir the waters. Pay little attention to the doom and gloom stuff. Besides, everyone knows that all us pilots are incredibly rich and above all such problems anyway.

Bob Kelly
 
RV's

Okay,

Here we go... Who plans on selling their RV or RV Project due to the doom and gloom in the media...? NOT! :D
 
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Downturn?

Small rant - Doug, take it out if you think inappropriate. While there is a blip (or a little more) in the housing market, the current doom and gloom is IMO a media and political creation. Despite the Clinton recession (well documented in government stats) the press was glowing about our economy until the day Bush took office, and uniformly negative and gloomy thereafter. We've had almost unprecedented economic growth, sustained for many quarters, all beyond the experts' projections. The last quarter was no exception. Unemployment has been and remains at extremely low levels. Remember that the press greatly influences investor confidence and public opinion. I think we need some confidence in this, the greatest country in the world, and in the capability of our citizens to create and sustain a vital economy. This is not dependent on the media but is influenced by public opinion and thus the mainstream media. The government can help, very little, but on the other hand can have major destructive influence on the economy, consuming productive output by taxation, stifling business activity and growth and retarding confidence and investment in our economy. kThe rule of law established by our constitution is the main thing we need to thrive. Where else can a private aviation group like RV'er's exist? Let's hear it for the US and the RV's and our rich aviation heritage and present! I love this country. Bill
 
Bill Dicus said:
Small rant - Doug, take it out if you think inappropriate. While there is a blip (or a little more) in the housing market, the current doom and gloom is IMO a media and political creation. Despite the Clinton recession (well documented in government stats) the press was glowing about our economy until the day Bush took office, and uniformly negative and gloomy thereafter. We've had almost unprecedented economic growth, sustained for many quarters, all beyond the experts' projections. The last quarter was no exception. Unemployment has been and remains at extremely low levels. Remember that the press greatly influences investor confidence and public opinion. I think we need some confidence in this, the greatest country in the world, and in the capability of our citizens to create and sustain a vital economy. This is not dependent on the media but is influenced by public opinion and thus the mainstream media. The government can help, very little, but on the other hand can have major destructive influence on the economy, consuming productive output by taxation, stifling business activity and growth and retarding confidence and investment in our economy. kThe rule of law established by our constitution is the main thing we need to thrive. Where else can a private aviation group like RV'er's exist? Let's hear it for the US and the RV's and our rich aviation heritage and present! I love this country. Bill
Click to expand...

For some balance to this 'well sourced' post:

I think you mean former greatest country in the world ;)

One indicator (of many):
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=EUR&amt=1&t=5y
http://streetlightblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/exchange-rate-data.html

Another: # of POWs tortured by Americans:
1949-2000: 0
2001-present: >0

I swear doug I've tried to be good - but these posts are just piling up all over the place lately - there must be something in the water.
 
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shiney said:
Hey Jim, calm down, I asked the question becuase I'm interested in getting your side of the story becuase I too believe that London, the BBC and the and chattering classes do not represent the truth, they certainly don'r represent me. If the point that you are making is that we are paying too much for our sales tax and fuel then heck, I couldn't agree with you more, but hey, my parents chose to have me hear, I didn't get much of a say in it! And trust me when I tell you this, the good old British public do not go around sticking it to Uncle Sam apart from those uncles of ours who don't know where Britain is!
Click to expand...

Apologies - didn't mean to sound so harsh - but I can just imagine the supercilious stories in the UK press describing America. Civis Britannicus sum by the way, all be it expat, but I'm still a frequent visitor.

America is doing fine. George Bush is even considering bailing out people who made stupid and/or greedy borrowing/lending decisions! We must be heading into an election year - although it seems as if we have been there for a year already.
 
Bill Dicus said:
While there is a blip (or a little more) in the housing market, the current doom and gloom is IMO a media and political creation. Despite the Clinton recession (well documented in government stats) the press was glowing about our economy until the day Bush took office, and uniformly negative and gloomy thereafter.
Click to expand...

Right on the money. The press is in bed with the liberals/Demorats, and will do what they can to harpoon the current administration.

Bill Dicus said:
We've had almost unprecedented economic growth, sustained for many quarters, all beyond the experts' projections. The last quarter was no exception. Unemployment has been and remains at extremely low levels. Remember that the press greatly influences investor confidence and public opinion.
Click to expand...
I sure wish they would start saying the housing market is taking off.
 
"Another: # of POWs tortured by Americans:
1982-2000: 0
2001-present: >0"

Kevin,

Bill Clinton allowed the Extraordinary Rendition of suspects by the CIA to other less scrupulous countries starting in 1995. No one is squeaky clean when the stakes are high but at least in America there is open investigation and debate on the subject.
 
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i dont see it

and dont know anyone that does except those that want everything i have worked so hard for, so they can continue to be lazy and addicted to the tax funds of a rich society.
still the greatest contry in the world,at least until november.
 
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Just because you don't see it, don't believe its not there. I am in the new home building business, and I am dying with it. And don't call me greedy or irresponsible, this is my Profession. The lack of home sales in Florida and other terrible markets is having a secondary impact on places inland, like where I am. People who want to move cannot get rid of their houses to do so. And while there are certainly some inflated priced areas, I can tell you that my current whosale cost to build new houses is more than 2 year-old houses are selling for.

While I agree that a little less media sensationalism would be great, it is a real big issue. You guys who point to low unemployment and other indicators, just wait until the 1st quarter 2008 numbers come out. It's going to be a train wreck.

I'm not looking for or expecting a bail-out from anybody. But to the fortunate folks who continue to insist ther is nothing wrong, you better believe that you are quite incorrect.

Tom
 
economics

Well, I'm not an economist (I don't even play one on TV:D) but....

My consulting engineering business is alittle slow right now. May just be the time of year.

My RV project is my only "child". I don't owe money on a car, cc's & I paid off the house 6 years ago.

If the cash flow slows down, my RV project may take alittle longer to finish.

Right now, I've got enough cash to buy my fuselage kit and that'll keep me busy next year even if my business doesn't.

Seems to me the "FED" is determined to keep cheap money available for those who borrow even if it means devaluing the dollar.

I don't know where it'll all end but it looks to me like a "house of cards"

I just wanna finish my plane and fly it some before I die..........

Dave
RV9A
wings finished
 
There's no turndown here

Record sales. Working like a slave to meet demands. Costs are OK. Profits right on target.

Cost of my current house construction UNFORTUNATELY NOT AFFECTED :mad: by turndowns in other parts of the country.

So...In my little world, I have not seen evidence of the gloom and doom reported in the media.
YMMV of course.
 
n180tf said:
Just because you don't see it, don't believe its not there. I am in the new home building business, and I am dying with it. And don't call me greedy or irresponsible, this is my Profession. The lack of home sales in Florida and other terrible markets is having a secondary impact on places inland, like where I am. People who want to move cannot get rid of their houses to do so. And while there are certainly some inflated priced areas, I can tell you that my current whosale cost to build new houses is more than 2 year-old houses are selling for.

While I agree that a little less media sensationalism would be great, it is a real big issue. You guys who point to low unemployment and other indicators, just wait until the 1st quarter 2008 numbers come out. It's going to be a train wreck.

I'm not looking for or expecting a bail-out from anybody. But to the fortunate folks who continue to insist ther is nothing wrong, you better believe that you are quite incorrect.

Tom
Click to expand...

I feel your pain. Look at Newmark Homes Stock... .37 cents and on Pink Sheets now. I believe they've filed for bankruptcy and I know of two other LARGE builders following suit next week. :(
 
Many years ago...

Many years ago some one told me the difference between a depression and a ression is that in a ression some one else is out of work and in a depression you are out of work. I have thought about it many times over the years and have been lucky to have dodged the bullets. In our town I have noticed that when the teenagers have money for cruising the economy is good but when the cruising stops it is because the kids are the first ones to feel the pinch.
 
Military Business is Booming

Unfortunately my line of work is booming. Air Force deployments increasing while size of the force is shrinking.

Theirs alot of risk in the world right now, credit risk, market risk, currency risk, and terror risk. You think its bad now wait until we have another terror attack.

With risk can come reward just dont find yourself upside down on everything you own.

In the mean time we'll keep risking our lives to protect the American freedom to denegrade our system of government and those sworn to defend it.

Sorry for the rant...
 
I'm in the news business and contrary to what you read upstream, I'm not (a) stupid and (b) I don't make it up. I actually spend a lot of time during the course of my day talking to people and getting educated about all sorts of issues, one of them is the economy.

Folks can obviously decide for themselves and I'll decide for me based on FACTS.

I just got the Truth in Taxation statement and I see the assessed value of the home is going down. I can hit the UPDATE button on quicken just like the next guy and I can see the portfolio drop $10,000, it seems, every time I press the darned button (btw, I've stopping pressing the button.)

I've been in the news business a long time and while politicians got elected saying "spend today, pay tomorrow," I was raised by a smart enough couple to know that if it doesn't work that way in your home, it doesn't work that way forever in your government.

Bottom line? I ain't spending a dime more on the project until I see a few things change. Heck, I'm even thinking of staying home from OSH and not doing the BBQ this year. I want to see the market stabilize, I want to make sure we're not heading to a recession, I want to make sure I can get credit at favorable rates. And, oh yeah, I want to make sure I'll still have a job.

Bully for those of you who are making a pile of cash who haven't seen economic woes hit you yet. My business is funded by one of the first things companies cut in tough times... advertising and grants. If the ripple effect of the economy hasn't rippled down to you yet, that's great. If you think that means it won't, well... good luck.

For the folks who grew up in the '80s and '90s, this is why we just shook our heads at you when you made fun of our penny-pinching, conservative ways. (g) this is why my project is pay-as-you-go, it's why I never carry credit card debt past the month accumulated, it's why I didn't buy the cabin by the lake like all my neighbors, or buy a bigger house than I need or, heck, put up Christmas lights.

Everything works in cycles. And this will pass. But for now? It's real. It's raining.
 
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My thoughts.

Jeff Vaughan said:
I use a CC for everypurchase I can to get the Air miles!!!
I then pay it off every month. This way I feel like I am getting something for nothing.
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First DR said we were off subject. At first glance it may seem so, but.....

It is available funds that keep us flying/building.

We all know its not thrust or lift that keeps us aloft, its MONEY!

Now how efficient we are is the (flight time / dollars) ratio, but Rv's and Rv'ers seem to have a pretty good formula unless they get too fast or fancy, that all takes more cash. See Doug, we are still on subject.

As for the above quote about credit cards, it all costs somebody.

If I sell something over the phone in my business and it is an hundred dollar transaction, the CC companies take $2.30 for that privilege, yes its cheaper to have the card swiped at our machine, but not anything to get real excited about.

Y'all might say $2.30 well that's no big deal compared to the extra $9.00 for a UPS COD fee, but at least I can charge all of that to the customer.

Think of it this way, if we sell 10k worth of stuff in a day the cc company just got $230.00 and we did most of the work.

GUESS WHAT, THEY CHARGE YOU THE SAME RATE FOR A RETURN, if its done on next days. Whoo hoo goody for them, they made double and the vendor is left with a deficit on that transaction

No wonder we offer 1% ten net 30 to established business's with good credit.

So if you wonder who REALLY pays for those cardholder freebies it's the merchants. Then again at the end of the year you have to make enough to stay in the business and if your doing what you can you might have to bump it all up a very small fraction to stay in the game.

I am not being doom and gloom.

We are having our best year ever and are thankful for it.:)

I wanted those who are not familiar with the merchants cost of using CC's to know that they may be easy but they are not without there costs:eek:
 
If I was an Econ Prof I would say building an RV is a great way to globally diversify your risk.

(1) Paid in US dollars that are quickly falling against foreign currency.

(2) Spent US dollars to build a RV that is sellable on the world market.

(3) Savings, House and other consumer items have little prospect of foreign sales.

If this were to continue unabated (it won't) you could sell your RV a few years from now and get enough US dollars in return to pay off a very large mortgage.

Build or buy RVs are a great investment right now if you live in the US.
 
It's not because most of us are fine and that most people we know are employed that things are going well. Unemployment number are good, but payroll is not as good... having people employed is good, but it's better to have employees making a good wage. I saw the recent increase in cc debt number, a 2k increase (close to 10k) by can't remember in how long now. Anyways, what I got out of the article is that people are still spending more than they are making but believe they'll be able to turn that around quickly since they're still using a cc (as opposed to cutting their spending) and not cheaper long term sources for capital.

The financial are starting to report this week, it should be interesting. If they're positive, we should be ok as they're the one sector that's dragging the economy down. As much as I'm opposed to supporting "stupid decisions", I think Bush did the right thing by helping those people and everyone else. If defaults rate had increased, the housing & credit problem would have gotten much worse leading everyone down. I view it as a subsidy that help all Americans.

I think the current housing woes are done and we're going to enter a stabilization period in most place. The credit crunch is due investor's to lack of trust, lower interest rate won't fix that, but they'll help stimulate the rest of the economy. I don't buy the gloom and doom, but I'd proceed carefully in my investment if I needed my money in the short term.
 
asav8tor said:
If I was an Econ Prof I would say building an RV is a great way to globally diversify your risk.

(1) Paid in US dollars that are quickly falling against foreign currency.

(2) Spent US dollars to build a RV that is sellable on the world market.

(3) Savings, House and other consumer items have little prospect of foreign sales.

If this were to continue unabated (it won't) you could sell your RV a few years from now and get enough US dollars in return to pay off a very large mortgage.

Build or buy RVs are a great investment right now if you live in the US.
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Agreed as long as you buy now and nothing cause light airplane value to go down (like higher oil prices)... otherwise due to the deflated value of the dollar, your cost are going to increase because we're going to be affected by the price of commodities. The last time I checked on AL (a few month ago), I thought it was too low, it's bound to rise which will increase the cost of building an RV.
 
asav8tor said:
Build or buy RVs are a great investment right now if you live in the US.
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I assume that is IF you can sell them. I presume the market forces at work in lowering home prices (an oversupply) would also be at work in setting market value for a completed RV. It would be interesting to do a survey to see what RVs are fetching these days and compare it to a few years ago. With more RVs flying, I presume that contributes to an oversupply of available RVs for purchase.
 
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