Van's Air Force
The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!
Are RV-7's selling for over $300K?
- Thread starter FasGlas
- Start date
- Status
I think that is beyond dreaming! Someone is smoking something
"Sellers", "Selling" "Listings" and "Asking" don't mean any more than "I have a Bridge in Brooklyn to Sell" I do not think there is any public way of knowing what any aircraft actually SOLD for, the FAA Bill of Sales normally are misleading too. EX: $1 dollar and other good and valuable considerations. There may be other reasons for asking so much but it does help increase the interest in RV7s.
pitts12driver
Member
I was offered just under $300k out of the blue for my recently completed -7A
Did you sell it
, I thought one sold on here just recently for around $150K, taking Walt's point though with a full Garmin panel,I/O 360, fancy constant speed prop, custom paint job etc. I guess you would be getting up there 
.Figs
Norman CYYJ
Well Known Member
Just maybe the sellers are having spouse problems and have been told to sell it, so they put it on the market as ordered or strongly suggested for a ridiculous price. It doesn't sell because the market is soft right now and the seller gets to keep flying .
Then the county gets wind of it, and your next aircraft property tax bill jumps...I hope both are sold at the asking price. That should increase the values of our RVs
Fortunately for me - no one is selling 6A's for 300K
I have recently used Windsock to estimate value of my RV. With AOPA membership you get 12 free quotes. Pretty thorough evaluation. You can put in N number and it will provide data on the plane. Lots of info, not sure how accurate their algorithms are or what data they are using as basis for estimate.
BoydBirchler
Well Known Member
In a world where the lowly Continental O-200 sells new outright for $59K (and is currently on back order) there is certainly room for a $300K RV7...
Norman CYYJ
Well Known Member
Ouch!
Sure hope so.
If somebody offered me $300,000 for my RV7 I would sell it tomorrow. Everything I own is for sale except my dog, and I'd probably let you rent her.
While I don't 100% disagree, this isn't a cliff that everybody falls over at the same time. Plus, just like houses, airplanes are typically appreciating assets, so If you must finance, that typically isn't the worst thing you could be borrowing against.
Just for fun, go price a new Cobalt or MasterCraft boat and a Duramax to pull it with. You're up around $250,000. Literally everybody knows the value of those assets drop like a rock the second you drive them off the lot, but plenty of people are able to somehow justify that decision.
It must be the Aveo wingtips...
It's not even deliberate most of the time, it's just more dollars chasing ever fewer assets. People whose income comes from investments are doing better than ever. People whose income comes from wages are doing worse. There seem to be lots of well-off people chasing a relatively smaller pool of GA airplanes, and historic numbers of pilot certificates, while social media influencers sell the lifestyle.
To top it off, hobbyists like us compete for hangar space, tiedowns, and A&P resources against people who can buy a $3-5m new turboprop and write it off as a business expense. People with none or minimal passion for aviation beyond using it to facilitate their growing business empire. The US culture of "hustle" and making everything into a potential source of profit is pervasive. Just an example: when my neighbor found out I had earned a pilot's license and was buying a plane, his literal first question was to ask me why I don't start a business transporting people. Like our national identity is so hustle-driven, the response to learning about my hobby was to suggest I start an illegal charter.
Thank God for this fine country and capitalism…and remind yourself…no one is making anyone buy anything, you can choose to buy or choose to build or choose to skip it entirely,
You can't choose to buy that which you cannot afford. I suspect the vast majority of the people on this forum are on a trajectory to get priced out of personal aviation in the next 10 years. That doesn't read like a success story to me.
Vans and kits democratized aviation for the relative middle class. Companies chasing ever higher profits (e.g Lycoming) are in the process of making even that profoundly unaffordable. We hold out hope for someone to disrupt that, but it's not looking great right now.
I believe the crazy price escalation is transitory. Costs have not increased all that much, so most of the increases are going straight to profit, whether lyc selling engines or one of us selling our RV 7 that is now worth 1.5 times what we put into it. One of these days, the market will go back to doing what it has always done and we will have a major, long term correction. Demand will dry up like a sponge and prices will crater. While painfull in the short term, I don't see this as the death of GA. I feel really bad for anyone that was willing to buy an rv7 for $300K, as they will wake up one day and find it is worth $150K. Once demand vaporizes, there are a whole bunch of rv7's that folks built for 125-150 and will be happy to sell at those prices. Sure, you can say it costs $200K to build one now, but once prices fall across the board, that will no longer be the case. No way IMO does a new IO-360 cost $80K once demand dries up. Once the economy craters, hobby assets are the first to go.
Last edited:
Everybody wants laissez-faire capitalism, until it hits *their* pocketbook.
Maybe. I don't totally disagree with this take, but prices are also "sticky". People not able to get what they think something is worth will sometimes just take it off the market and let it sit until later. This is fine if you're talking real estate, but planes that go unused will become unreliable - a tale as old as time in GA airplanes. Disuse will shrink the pool of "good" airplanes, or at least airplanes that seem like an acceptable risk. I'm constantly shocked by the number of planes for sale that average <30h/year - which is often front-loaded to when the person first bought the plane and the moving average may be 10h/year or 0h/year in the past few years. My cam and lifters had terrible corrosion after only 4 years at 50h/year - probably because those hours were not evenly distributed throughout the year (and there may have been other factors in play).
At least in terms of engines, I'm skeptical that prices can come down. Lycoming would probably rather keep pumping prices as they sell fewer until they finally decide to close up shop. Lowering the price would be "deflationary" and would look bad to shareholders.
This is the price that gets you out of the dog house by telling wifey of course I'll sell the airplane...but!
I’ve said this before and will reiterate…I’ve been at this for 40 years and 7 homebuilts…I’ve never once in all those years, had a brand new engine, nor would I want one.
Anyone….as in ANYONE…can educate themselves, shop around for deals and build a very good quality engine much more reasonably than what some people do. I could easily afford a new engine, but prefer the pride of authorship of custom building my own. Same with my airplanes. It may take more time, though I’d assert I can locate a core and overhaul an engine in far less time than to order one and wait for a new one.
If aviation is dying, it will be certified aircraft going first.
All it would take for Lycoming to reduce prices is for people to quit buying new ones for a bit….
Every airport I’ve been to has a few derelict aircraft sitting around and I’ve bought plenty of those engines and turned them into nice power plants for my aircraft many times,
The reason people kept doing these expensive options, is that there’s been a willing bunch of buyers for the product. When that changes, which I believe we are seeing with the number of Supercubs now being built with Rotax engines, then the tide will change.
experimental aviation to me has always been a “true believer” experience…not for everyone. The fact that it has become very mainstream the last decade is a testament to the kits being no longer a build from basics, but an assemble at home…like an IKEA cupboard with minimal tools, techniques or knowledge.
At some point the capitalist economy will offer opportunity that others will grasp and if this is dying, the last buggy whip manufacturer will get rich, before closing their doors…and alas…something new will take its place.
It may not be as easy. It might take blood and sweat and tenacity…thus returning it to the pure…those to whom aviation is a life blood, not a spare hour a week or a month…but a calling. A part of the DNA of the human in question and the piece that still makes me run outside to see what kind of craft is flying over…that same piece that made me do that as a five year old. That same piece that will make me do it till either I can’t walk anymore…or see.
I remember in 1974 when I was rebuilding my dad's J5A, people where telling me that GA was doomed due to the rising costs. A new cub wing ribs was $65!!!
It's all relative. Some of us won't be able to keep up but al lot of us will.
I don’t know if they are selling for that much but I just added up quick build prices, thunderbolt engine prices and with high end paint, avionics, and interior, just the cost in parts alone came out slightly over 300k.
And I've said many times that this information may be dated or not fit with a person's risk profile. A lot of the terrain where I live is not conducive to safety in an engine out landing. I have built automotive engines myself but I draw the line at something I can't pull over in. I've never had a new engine either. Paying a reputable shop to overhaul my AV IO-360 was eye wateringly expensive, and most of the parts were reusable. I know enough about skill to know that thousands of engine builds makes someone better at it than me trying to do it in my garage for the first time.
I think many of the "good cores" have dried up due to a boom in kit building, and other cores are getting the prices pumped up in response to expensive new parts.
...and I remember Cessna shutting down single engine airplane production the year before I got my PPL. People said the same thing - GA is doomed.
I know enough to know that thousands of engine builds make people complacent. If you can read a manual, follow instructions and go step by step…you’ll find that a Lycoming is no more difficult than a Volkswagen engine to overhaul. One can always opt for new cylinder assemblies and the rest is pretty straight forward.
After reading in this very forum about all the F-ups that "reputable shops" have done over the years, I put far more trust into me building my own engines. As you did as well, I built several automotive and motorcycle engines before tackling my AV IO-360 18 years ago. Read all the SB's and SI's and manuals, plus cardinal knowledge articles like Paul wrote, and do it!
talking o'hauled vs new engines... 3 years ago my old, 1976 manufactured, engine was clocking 2K+ and still purred like the proverbial kitty.
Still, facing age, not only myself but also the declining health of that engine (different signs such as decreasing compressions, increasing oil consumption, etc) had me start looking...
Having mentioned engine overhauled would have ground my P&J for 3-6 months... installing a new engine would be way quicker, and basically equal costwise.
Planning that well ahead had me, despite Vans ups and downs added to other uncertainties, had me receive a brand new YO-360 in the defined timeframe, whilst selling the used engine for core value and some.
Though it all worked well in the end and I'm very happy with the end result, I realize this worked well for me since
A/ I was in a position to afford it
B/ I don't enjoy spending my time sending engine parts internationally, nor bargain hunting
C/ ordering a TB gave me all the options possible, and only normally available to custom orders elsewhere
Still, facing age, not only myself but also the declining health of that engine (different signs such as decreasing compressions, increasing oil consumption, etc) had me start looking...
Having mentioned engine overhauled would have ground my P&J for 3-6 months... installing a new engine would be way quicker, and basically equal costwise.
Planning that well ahead had me, despite Vans ups and downs added to other uncertainties, had me receive a brand new YO-360 in the defined timeframe, whilst selling the used engine for core value and some.
Though it all worked well in the end and I'm very happy with the end result, I realize this worked well for me since
A/ I was in a position to afford it
B/ I don't enjoy spending my time sending engine parts internationally, nor bargain hunting
C/ ordering a TB gave me all the options possible, and only normally available to custom orders elsewhere
I've rebuilt a couple of automotive engines, have average handyman skills and the well stocked tool chest to go along with it. Even then, I've spent $14,141 to date on tools for my build.
As for my airplane build needing minimal technique or knowledge - my build has pushed me to the absolute limits of what I'm capable of doing in many different ways. I've spent far more time gaining the knowledge I've needed to build my airplane than I've spent actually building it.
For some folks here, building an airplane is more complex than assembling an IKEA cupboard. Not everybody can build an airplane in their sleep with a Crescent wrench.
Thank goodness for well built kits….and as long as people are willing to pay for them…thank goodness for that too!
In the end it will be two factors: Airports and hangars. Whiteman in CA is threatened with closure, Santa Monica still scheduled to close. In NJ The Forest Service owns Aeroflex Andover. Most hangar tenants were given 90 days notice and the hangars are being destroyed except for a few retained by the Forest Service.
If you can find a 2026 Mastercraft X24 for 250,000, buy it. They are selling for more than my first three houses ….combined !
This. I stopped by the mechanic next door to borrow a tool and he was telling me they ordered a new throttle cable for a Cessna 210 and it was $780. I don't think I would ever own a certified aircraft again after my recent RV-8 experience. And if that means fewer people competing for $1500/ month T-hangars, that's fine with me.
I have seen the Sheltair crew pressure washing out 3 hangars in the last month- empty. And we're supposedly on a years long waiting list. So maybe they are starting to see the upper limit on T-hangar rents. KPMP (South Florida).
I believe we, the RV community, are just as much to blame for the price escalation to build or buy an RV (or many other experimental amateur built planes). The success of the RV line has caused a large increase in new builders along with non-builders wanting an RV. Simple supply and demand is driving up prices on everything. General aviation supply lines have always, and will always, be lean as the market is cyclical enough and profits margins low that it doesn’t pay to invest in increasing supply. The success of the RV has also driven other kit companies to up their game in kit designs and quality.
An EAB is no longer what it was just 20 years ago when it was a few sheets of drawings, a pile or wood sticks, some fabric, and a VW engine. We, the EAB community, now desire kit built aircraft to rival (and exceed) factory built aircraft in quality and features like multiple glass panels, leather seats, big zero time engines, and high end paint jobs. All just continues the price escalation.
An EAB is no longer what it was just 20 years ago when it was a few sheets of drawings, a pile or wood sticks, some fabric, and a VW engine. We, the EAB community, now desire kit built aircraft to rival (and exceed) factory built aircraft in quality and features like multiple glass panels, leather seats, big zero time engines, and high end paint jobs. All just continues the price escalation.
20 years ago??? You couildn't be more wrong. The VW airplanes were largely in Europe and relatively rare in US.
The EAB's from the early 60's were mostly four cylinder Continentals and :Lycomings. The Lyc GPU was $95. In the early sixties a friend upgraded from a C85 to an o 200. I think I paid him $200 for the C85 which served me well for several years.
Read the current AOPA if you want to learn what is possible when the money goes away. No hangar needed.
This attitude really irritates me...to equate building an RV-anything, quick or slow build, with putting together an IKEA cupboard and assert that doing so doesn't require any tools, techniques or knowledge is just flat-out insulting.
I guess you're another one of those guys who went out and mined his own bauxite and smelted his own ore, and anybody who didn't do it precisely as you deem appropriate to be considered a "builder" is merely an imbecile with a metric hex key.
Shees. Sorry for the rant, but this sort of thing frosts my balls.
pitts12driver
Member
I built it for my daughter, and she said, "why would you sell my plane?"Did you sell it
Figs
When demand plummits, companies are typically sitting on lots of inventory, trying to recoup capital expenditures, pay off debt, etc. as demand falls, they always lower prices to recoup some volume and more importantly, maintain cash flow. Cash flow is the hidden killer that creates mosy bankruptcies; well documented but poorly understood. Companies never keep raising prices in the face of cratering demand. That just hastens the fall. Not a ceo on the planet that would rather have a chapter 11 on his resume instead of a large revenue downturn. Most all companies fall victim to shrinking revenue and income during market downturns, only the poorly run wind up in bankruptcy.
Lycomings prices have at least doubled in the last few years. I doubt their costs have increased more than 40%. Gobs of profit that is well above the corporate norm and easy to give back in the name of survival.
Last edited:
- Status
