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ACK 406 ELT

Why not build an offset antenna mount?

flion said:
Without a straight whip antenna, it won't do me any good. The angled mast won't fit under the tail fairing where I have mine.
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If the angle of the antenna mast is an issue, and you're mounting under the empennage fairing, then why don't you build an angled mount to counter the angle of the mast?

20* mast - 20* angled mount = 0*


Just asking???
 
The whip is mounted to the rearmost deck bulkhead and curves over the front HS spar, secured there and at the tip with clamps. It's not much of a curve but a straight mast won't do it.
 
Replies from ACK

I have exchanged a number of emails with Greg Akatif from ACK and below is a summer of those emails:

Regarding the desire/need to use a straight antenna:
ACK said:
You may use any COSPAS/SARSAT approved antenna with our ELT, there are a lot on the market. I believe Dayton-Grainger makes a straight one with nearly the same dimensions as our old antenna for roughly $50.00.
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On installing their new ELT:
ACK said:
If you already have one of our ELT's it will be a 20-30 minute replacement any owner/operator can do themselves. (minus the GPS interfacing, that will take longer but is optional not mandatory.) It will use the exact same remote control head you already have, and the cable. It will fit in the same mounting tray as your old one. (That is what has taken a lot of time, designing the new one to have the same dimensions as the E-01 so it will fit in the same tray.) The antenna cable will be the same BNC cable also. So all you will really have to do to make it legal is replace the antenna and install the Audio Alert indicator, and that is just plug and play right into the remote control cable at the ELT, or up at the remote control panel indicator. (Just plugs into the RJ11 cable you already have run, through the use of the same connector already on the cable.)
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On the need to tie the ELT into your GPS:
ACK said:
..the GPS is not mandatory, it's just recommended. The 406 without the GPS is much much more accurate than the old 121.5's. The old 121.5's would get search and rescue within about a 15 mile radius of the signal, (that's a lot of area to search, especially in rugged terrain.) within 3-4 hours, the new406 will drop that to about 3 miles. With the GPS interface connected, it will be about 25 feet and instantly.

Oh and BTW: Those figures I gave you on distances and time are just figures we hear from search and rescue, and COSPAS/SARSAT, they could vary by +- 1 hour or so depending on the satellites locations in orbit, or by +- distance depending on the long/latitude of the signal they receive. Those are the figures we are often given, not definite numbers. It will vary case by case.
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Greg is working hard to get their new ELT certified before SnF but the certification process is rather complex and they are doing their best to pass the tests the first time.
 
Hello from ACK Technologies, Inc.

Hello Bill

Thank you for updating this community on ACK 406 matters. Much appreciated. Just letting people know I found some time when I got home from work the other night to write up a FAQ for everybody. Answering the 100's of questions we are getting has been consuming too much of my time lately, that needs to be spent working twoards our 406 certification. Even though testing completion is somewhat out of our hands until we get our opening at the COSPAS/SARSAT military proving grounds, I still have plenty of documentation that needs writing up for the FAA.

For updates just visit our website at WWW.ACKAVIONICS.COM

Here is the link to the ACK 406 ELT FAQ in PDF. format.
http://www.ackavionics.com/pdf/E-04 FAQ.pdf

Thanks for turning me on to the Vans site Bill. I have not had much time to look around, but with all the diverse topics, and subject matter this site seems like a excellent resource for all pilots, kudos to the developers and admins.
 
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Many thanks for the posting. I still think you should provide a straight whip antenna as a replacement for the straight whip in the E01, but I appreciate that we can at least use a third party antenna. Care to post the antenna specs so we can be sure to select an antenna that meets your requirements?
 
I spoke with ACK last Friday to get an update on their 406Mhz ELT. They said they were still waiting to hear back from COSPAS/SARSAT certification. I think they said a test unit was lost, so that delayed the test. They expected to hear back any day (but they have no idea, it is the government after all), and have about 1000 units ready to ship if the tests go well for the certification.
 
Posted with permission:
Greg Akatiff @ ACK said:
We have received FAA TSO approval, and applied for Canadian approval, and ETSO approval. We are waiting for some additional testing, and information from the U.S. electronics proving grounds requested by COSPAS/SARSAT. We need approval from COSPAS/SARSAT before manufacturing can be completed, or any ELT's sold.

It's really hard to guesstimate the time simply because according to the schedule originally given to us it should already be done. Were sitting here on 3/4 of a million in inventory, trust me nobody wants to get them on the market more than us.
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New update on the ACK website this week:

November 30th 2009

Good news is we have recieved Canadian TCCA approval [...]. And have had FAA TSO approval for some time. We also have recieved the latest COSPAS/SARSAT project worksheet indicating two test that the military lab failed to complete, and one test useing an improper recieving antenna. The ELT is now back at the military lab for testing. After contacting the military lab this morning they said testing had begun as of 11:30am today. They said these tests should be complete by the end of the week. We have full confidence that we will pass these tests with flying colors, and this will hopefully be the end of what is needed for our COSPAS/SARSAT approval.
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Sitting here with no ELT and six hundred bucks burning a hole in my pocket... :)

mcb
 
I would be all over a group buy if we could get one, but I think that DR has a policy that we only do group buys from vendors that advertise with VAF.
 
Before I query them, has anybody kept in touch with them? I figured we would have heard something by now.
 
WOWj!

406 with GPS encoding for $560? That is a great deal, or will be when it arrives. I think that is a must-buy.

Hans
 
Remote Control Panel/Indicator (RCPI) Dimension Differences

If you are planning to install the ACK E-04 ELT keep in mind that while an existing Ameri-King Remote Control Panel/Indicator (RCPI) can be used with the ACK E-04 ELT, there is a difference in mounting dimensions between the Ameri-King and ACK RCPI's. The cutout dimensions and mounting screw hole placements are slightly different. So if you are planning an initial installation, get the proper cutout dimensions from the ACK E-04 installation manual from their website. I had assumed that because either could be used and they look so similar that the mounting dimensions were the same. Fortunately, I discovered the diffence while still planning my panel layout.
 
ACS is taking orders for the ACK

ACS is taking orders, they have a ship date of Feb 10 for the full kit. ACK call I made had them building to meet distributor schedules (called 1/14/2010), they are not filling direct orders yet. ACS price was about $580 for the full kit, a 3% discount from msrp. When I called ACS, they had 110 on order from ACK, and had 88 already reserved.

Rick 90432
 
I received a reply from Mike at Ack and he told me that they were having some difficulty with the testing equipment at the lab and they had to send them additional equipment to be tested. It sounds like approval is imminent and there's lots of pressure to get done quickly. Hopefully, we'll get it soon. It looks like a great product with excellent capabilities that will undoubtedly be a great contender in the 406 ELT market.
 
Heh, until that happened I'd never made the connection to 406mHz and 406 - 'not found'. Maybe not the most auspicious frequency for a locator beacon?;)
 
Thanks Gil for fixing that. When I posted the url I was in a little rush to get out the door and to work and I didn't go through the proper "url posting" procedure. :eek:

/\/elson
 
URLs...

David_Nelson said:
Thanks Gil for fixing that. When I posted the url I was in a little rush to get out the door and to work and I didn't go through the proper "url posting" procedure. :eek:

/\/elson
Click to expand...

...with a space in them are tacky and don't cut'n'paste correctly....:)
 
March 3rd 2010 Update

There's a new update for those of you waiting for the ACK 406 MHz ELT Model E-04:

http://www.ackavionics.com/406 Page.html

March 3rd 2010

We have recieved Industry Canada approval, we are now fully certified for Canada. (copy of certificate below.)

With the most recent report submitted by the U.S. Electronic Proving Grounds, we are down to one minor discrepancy in regards to current measurments. We have asked that COSPAS accept our data compiled for the FAA in lieu of relying on the U.S. Electronic Proving grounds again for testing. We are awaiting their response.
 
Is it available for sell yet?

Does anybody know if this has been released for sell to the general population yet?
 
April 14th 2010 Update

From ACK:

April 4th we received the 5th revision of the US ARMY lab test report again showing we passed all tests. It was received at COSPAS/SARSAT on April 6th. The reports finally look complete and correct this time. We spoke to the technical officer at COSPAS who said ?We will get to it in due time.? We are awaiting a response from COSPAS.
 
Does anyone know anything new about this ELT? I haven't seen an update in quite a while. I think I've had it on backorder since November, and it's the last piece of equipment I need for my plane!
 
Not sure I take this as reliable . . .

I called A/S this morning, they have 12/31/2010 as the new receipt date from ACK. :mad:

I don't know if that's real. I hope not.

The ACK website says Apr 4 2010 that the rev 5 report went out, and all was good, waiting for approval. They show a nice picture of a whole bunch of them E4's ready to be boxed - hundreds of them, so they exist.

This morning, so far, no one has answered the phone at ACK in CA (8am -8:28 am). Like Andy, it's the one instrumentation gap I have and the only open hole in the panel. I'll keep trying through the day.

Rick 90432
 
Wow, lets hope the Dec date is not accurate. I also cut the hole for the ACK remote based on the drawing in the manual. I was looking at the Ameri-King manual this morning and unfortunately the remote is not the same size.

Does anyone know if an ACK remote will work with an Ameri-King ELT?

I'd hate to have to cobble together something else, especially if the release is just right around the corner, but this is getting ridiculous. I'll wait until the end of June, but then I'm going to have to either buy a used ACK 121.5 unit or an Ameri-King 406 unit.
 
Talked to Mike A

I just got off the phone with Mike at ACK. He's about at wit's end. COSPAS is running him around. He's got millions of dollars of finished product and inventory being held up by 'we'll let you know' at COSPAS.

He's going to give me a heads up, but some action on our part, for those inclined, may help. We may be asked to write short emails to COSPAS on ACK's behalf.

I'll let you all know when Mike gets back to me.

Rick 90432
 
Smells like fish.

This from the governing document (T.007), found here:

http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/index....ew=article&id=203&catid=29&Itemid=129&lang=en

Note (g)

4.1 Sequence of Events
Typical steps to obtain a Cospas-Sarsat Type Approval Certificate for a new beacon are:
a. manufacturer develops a beacon;
b. manufacturer conducts preliminary testing in his laboratory;
c. manufacturer schedules testing at a Cospas-Sarsat accepted test facility;
d. test facility conducts1 type approval tests;
e. manufacturer and/or test facility (as coordinated by the manufacturer) submits to the Cospas-Sarsat Secretariat the information listed in section 5 of this document;
f. Secretariat and Cospas-Sarsat Parties review the test results and technical data; and
g. Cospas-Sarsat Secretariat provides results of review to the manufacturer within approximately 30 days, and if approved, a Cospas-Sarsat Type Approval Certificate is subsequently issued.
 
Sad really that there is this much red tape to all of this....:confused:

rjcthree said:
I just got off the phone with Mike at ACK. He's about at wit's end. COSPAS is running him around. He's got millions of dollars of finished product and inventory being held up by 'we'll let you know' at COSPAS.

He's going to give me a heads up, but some action on our part, for those inclined, may help. We may be asked to write short emails to COSPAS on ACK's behalf.

I'll let you all know when Mike gets back to me.

Rick 90432
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Section (e) provided 4/4/10

Per Mike at ACK, section (E) (per Dan's post) was provided Apr 4 (to rev 5, with all requirements met and all Army Test Lab errors and omissions addressed, corrected), and the 30 day committment has not been met(more than once, including now), and here we are.

At least that's how I read it and what Mike A at ACK described (at length) this morning.

Rick 90432
 
The secretariat position is vacant...

...at cospas-sarsat. I guess it doesn't matter how much horsepower you have if there's no rudder!

Since this is an international organization, I presume bringing this matter to one's congressional representative is the equivalent of pounding sand. Geez, what a mess.

LarryT

DanH said:
Smells like fish.

This from the governing document (T.007), found here:

http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/index....ew=article&id=203&catid=29&Itemid=129&lang=en

Note (g)

4.1 Sequence of Events
Typical steps to obtain a Cospas-Sarsat Type Approval Certificate for a new beacon are:
a. manufacturer develops a beacon;
b. manufacturer conducts preliminary testing in his laboratory;
c. manufacturer schedules testing at a Cospas-Sarsat accepted test facility;
d. test facility conducts1 type approval tests;
e. manufacturer and/or test facility (as coordinated by the manufacturer) submits to the Cospas-Sarsat Secretariat the information listed in section 5 of this document;
f. Secretariat and Cospas-Sarsat Parties review the test results and technical data; and
g. Cospas-Sarsat Secretariat provides results of review to the manufacturer within approximately 30 days, and if approved, a Cospas-Sarsat Type Approval Certificate is subsequently issued.
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who's driving the bus????

Gee, how surprising that the new ELT's cost $1000, instead of a few hundred like the old ones. They've added $800 of tests and forms!!!!!

On another note, anyone here 'in the business' of testing avionics etc>?

Did the other manufacturers go thru this much greif to get certified, or is this indicative of the ACK's product, or just their ability to move paper.

I hope it's the latter, as I'm looking forward to a $600 ELT, which leave me$400 for a PLB that might actually be of use.

Here's hoping all of our U.S. friends 406 equip and come visit us! We'd love to see you north of 49!!!
 
Perry - I have a dozen years of experience in performance testing avionics to meet TSO and other certification standards. All agencies, be it the FAA or COSPAS/SARSAT are bureaucratic by definition and nobody in those agencies gives a flying f@rt how much it's costing you to do the testing, or to meet their random requirements. Nor do they care how poorly the public is being served by their nonsensical delays thrown into what could be a short certification process.

But to get down to specifics, ACK had some testing problems, as is alluded to above. They've fixed the problems, and once again are back on the bureaucratic spin cycle. Having gone through this same thing with a different avionics product, going through full environmental and performance qualification testing I can assure you it's expensive, frustrating and not always in the best interests of the public. But aviation is a nice place to be because we insist on equipping to specific standards. The more recent part of my electronics career experience has been in telecomms where standards are more like guidelines that are open to interpretation so nobody's equipment plays well together the first time around. Thanks, I'll take aerospace any day.

On another note, don't get your hopes up for a $600 ELT in the near future. The requirement to program the ELT for the individual ICAO code for the aircraft is only one of the items driving up cost of manufacture. We're not likely to see very much change from the current ~$1K pricetag.

On another note... If you're feeling energetic, how about writing up a Transport Canada CARES submission to object to the horrendous requirement that we annually recertify our 406MHz ELT's? My last recert cost $120, wheras my previous 121.5MHz ELT recert cost less than $50 including shipping. I think we'd all feel a lot better about spending $1K on an ELT if we weren't also facing huge annual recert fees. Since TSO C126 specifies a much better standard of Built-in-Test (BIT) functionality there's no reason why we shouldn't do an annual performance check like our US brethren perform, then do a full recertification when the batteries are replaced at the specified interval (normally 5 or 6 years).
 
ELT woes

Well, all sage observations & advice,
I hadn't thought of the ongoing cost of the new ELT's being more than the sticker price after a few years!!!!!

Some great info,
including the idea that we all make a submission to CAIRS...here's the link, download the form, and let them have a piece of you mind.!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/secretariat-cairs-menu.htm

I am aware of quite a few pilots who find the regulations onerous, and simply DO NOT recertify their ELT's or recalibrate transponders due to the excessive cost, unclear regulations ( try to get 2 AME's to agree on them!)

Heck, we ALMOST got the feds to rewrite the ELT specs to provide some options, perhaps we can at least make swallowing the bitter pill more palatable with some maintenance sanity.

thanks to everyone, pass this note on to your flying club! & hangar mates!!!
 
New update posted on their site today:

June 3rd 2010

On March 15th we received an E-mail reply from COSPAS stating the ?only issue remaining? was a procedural change by our oscillator manufacturer RAKON that reflected the proper stability limit characteristics. We followed their suggestion, changed the limits, and part number, then submitted this data to COSPAS to meet their requirements. COSPAS said the current draw retesting was done and successful, and they were awaiting the final lab report to finally wrap this up, and get our certification. In late April COSPAS decided after reviewing the lab results that they had concerns about how the testing was done at the lab, and decided to re-review earlier data that was a previously closed matter. Upon examining their earlier approved test data, COSPAS decided there were some discrepancies regarding how the testing was performed. COSPAS then decided we need to go back, and retest several aspects. These matters had been closed nearly 8 months ago and deemed acceptable. Approximately two and a half weeks ago COSPAS discovered that the lab had damaged the test ELT (Installed battery backwards reversing polarity.) and not reported this to COSPAS. It has been over 13 months since we delivered the ELT to the military lab, for what we were quoted to be a 6 week process. The military lab currently doing the testing is the only lab (COSPAS certified) we can use in the western hemisphere. This whole experience dealing with COSPAS and the Military lab has been extremely frustrating to say the least. We are awaiting a response from COSPAS as to what we need to do to complete this process.

On the bright side, Consumer Aviation has given us a ?Gear of the Year? award for the E-04!
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mcb (awaiting delivery of my E-04 like everybody else!)
 
What ?!?!?

An accredited lab? An ommission like that? Seriously? Your government dollars at work? For whom? Rick
 
rjcthree said:
An accredited lab? An ommission like that? Seriously? Your government dollars at work? For whom? Rick
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If you think OUR government is bad, wait until you try to get something like this done through an organization (COSPAS-SARSAT) that is an international cooperative - especially with the membership it has!:rolleyes:
 
I crashed my E-01 and damaged the "phone cord" that comes out of the unit. I emailed ACK and told them I wanted to go ahead and get a 406 for when I get back in the air. I asked them if I could borrow a loaner E-01 or something like that until the 406 is released for sale. I was promptly told that they would gladly replace my wrecked E-01 for free if I would send the unit back to them with the NTSB report.

I wouldn't recommend you use this method to get a new ELT, but I was certainly pleased to get my replacement E-01 via UPS today.

I'm still anxiously awaiting the E-04 to hit the shelves like many others. Man, I'll bet those guys at ACK are "fit to be tied".
 
They are getting close.

From ACK's web site:
ACK said:
June 23rd 2010

We believe we have come to an agreement with COSPAS, that will complete this certification process within the next few weeks. COSPAS has asked that the military lab perform four tests. The military lab started these tests on Monday 6/21/2010. We will personally be flying down to the military lab in Arizona to oversee the final test, since it is the most complex. Assuming all tests are passed COSPAS has stated that they will issue the recommendation for certification issuance with two days of completion. After that, the recommendation for our certificate is reviewed by each of the member country?s, who have fifteen days to respond. Assuming there are no injunctions by the member countries we should then be issued our certification.
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Good to know

That's good to know seeing how the FCC doesn't want us using the old frequency. I will need to install some type of ELT in the months ahead.
 
I talked to ACK yesterday . . .

I talked to ACK yesterday, and they seem to be upbeat at finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel - and since they've already passed the tests (factually, a lab-damaged unit passed) they are in process with now, it SHOULD click along. They have plenty of material on hand to build for demand. I'd babysit the lab too, lol.

I'm looking forward to having the LAST device for the panel/cabin electrical in place.

I've talked to the guys at ACK directly a couple times now - it's a novel concept, real human beings who know stuff answer the phone, and actually don't mind talking to you. While the delay has been maddening, they get my business because I like what I see.

Rick 90432
 
So while you've been keeping them busy on the phone, they can't get to their email, I guess.:(
 
Site updated, looks like they're close.

from their website.....

July 7th 2010

We are flying to Ft Huachuca on the 12th to help supervise the last test which takes 37 hours. We have passed this test 5 times before, but each time the lab does it with the same ELT they get a different result which causes COSPAS to question the results. We have done the test both here, and at an independent lab, and the results are consistent and well below limits. We will be taking our equipment to gather parallel data during the test. All other tests have been completed, and we have in writing from COSPAS if this test is passed there will be no more testing required.
 
for the last time....again

...how many times can you do the last test ?
This is starting to read like every news release ever printed by Jim Bede.
( or a sports analogy...." he shoots, he SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORoooooohnoooo it just bounced off the post......aaaaahhhh soooooo close that time, it ALMOST went in.!!!!")

Not intending to slag anyone that doesn't deserve it, just frustrated with the soap opera.
Thanks to you guys that have the patience to do the daily monitoring and report it here!
 
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