Garmin AXIS in RV-12

[rcarsey]

Sooo... any thoughts about shoehorning in the Garmin AXIS into the RV-12iS? The cutouts and mounting holes are the same, but is 0.075" wider on the left (and on the right). I think its possible, but may require a little more trimming ?

Seems the best (economically speaking) upgrade path for the rv-12is IFR is to simply replace the two screens. Maybe for a new build, the all-integrated models make sense.. but that'll be for the Van's team to figure out and redo the harnesses they sell, etc.

Anyone interested in a second G3x for their planes? (I've taken the liberty of filing down the upper corners of it a little to fit your plane. Value-added service )

 

[Brantel]

Sooo... any thoughts about shoehorning in the Garmin AXIS into the RV-12iS? The cutouts and mounting holes are the same, but is 0.075" wider on the left (and on the right). I think its possible, but may require a little more trimming ?

Seems the best (economically speaking) upgrade path for the rv-12is IFR is to simply replace the two screens. Maybe for a new build, the all-integrated models make sense.. but that'll be for the Van's team to figure out and redo the harnesses they sell, etc.

Anyone interested in a second G3x for their planes? (I've taken the liberty of filing down the upper corners of it a little to fit your plane. Value-added service )

Rob,

I think you are spot on for an existing IFR model. If you want a second COM, that changes things a little bit.

Your also spot on for new E-LSA builds, it will take Van's forever to adopt the AXIS system and work it into their harness.

Then there are folks like me with the dual screen setup, AP and 507. I was gonna add the GPS175 anyway and if I go with the GDU116C, I get that plus an audio panel and second com. I just don't feel the need to have a NAV in a 12. I don't like the idea of reworking the COM wiring on the existing harness but it is what it is.
Looks like folks with what I have that don't want a IFR navigator, second COM or audio panel can get away with two basic model AXIS screens and very little wiring changes.

So many ways to configure a setup. Going to have to do some pencil work to figure out the best value.

 

[N8DAV8R]

Then there are folks like me with the dual screen setup, AP and 507. I was gonna add the GPS175 anyway and if I go with the GDU116C, I get that plus an audio panel and second com. I just don't feel the need to have a NAV in a 12. I don' like the idea of reworking the COM wiring on the existing harness but it is what it is.
Looks like folks with what I have that don't want a IFR navigator, second COM or audio panel can get away with two basic model AXIS screens and very little wiring changes.

So many ways to configure a setup. Going to have to do some pencil work to figure out the best value.

As you develop this, please keep this thread updated with notes. I'll try to do the same but to be honest I'm not sure how much help I will be.

We have the same setup right now. I have my 175 sitting on the shelf waiting for me to finish figuring things out. The addition of the 175 to an airplane with our current configuration has a few oddities. I have been waiting for you to get rolling on your upgrade to compare notes.

It seems like there is some potential for those same oddities to complicate an RV-12is upgrade to AXIS. Maybe not, not really something I have thought through yet.

@rcarsey A big obvious RV-12 flag in the title is probably appropriate here else we're going to get all kinds of people telling us how easy it will be to put Axis in their steam gauge RV-3B.

 

[iwannarv]

Be very cautious of the upper left and right corners of the GDUs and clearance to the tubing of the RV12 canopy frame in particular. VANS filed this down on G3XT displays. The AXIS display is very slightly wider, and also a little deeper on the panel side as well. The upper corners of the GDUs cannot be filed down on an AXIS display. That may/will cause interference to the canopy frame. The display would need to move down and/or inboard.

 

[Brantel]

Be very cautious of the upper left corner of the GDU and clearance to the tubing of the RV12 canopy frame in particular. VANS filed this down on G3XT displays. The AXIS display is very slightly wider, but a little deeper on the panel side as well. The upper corner of the GDU cannot be filed down on an AXIS display. That may/will cause interference to the canopy frame. The display would need to move down and/or to the right.

Yeah, this is gonna be an issue. There is little to no room to move the screen on a 12 down or toward the center. The Touch just barely was able to fit a 12.
This is most likely gonna require some slight modifications of the canopy frame.

By the way....Good job movie star!

 

[rcarsey]

Be very cautious of the upper left and right corners of the GDUs and clearance to the tubing of the RV12 canopy frame in particular. VANS filed this down on G3XT displays. The AXIS display is very slightly wider, and also a little deeper on the panel side as well. The upper corners of the GDUs cannot be filed down on an AXIS display. That may/will cause interference to the canopy frame. The display would need to move down and/or inboard.

I see your job title on LinkedIN. I will take your caution very seriously. I think I will remove my G3x, measure the clearances more accurately, then decide a game plan. That bar sorta is structural.. and at the very least, I'd absolutely hate to replace or redo the canopy fiberglass and paint in order to fix some crack down the road that was caused by this...

Do you happen to have a measurement of the new panel-side depth? If I could 3D print something, then i could do all the work upfront before I pull the trigger on an order..

 

[henrysamson]

I see your job title on LinkedIN. I will take your caution very seriously. I think I will remove my G3x, measure the clearances more accurately, then decide a game plan. That bar sorta is structural.. and at the very least, I'd absolutely hate to replace or redo the canopy fiberglass and paint in order to fix some crack down the road that was caused by this...

Do you happen to have a measurement of the new panel-side depth? If I could 3D print something, then i could do all the work upfront before I pull the trigger on an order..

I'm in the same boat as you. I have the Garmin IFR package in my RV-12iS. When I originally installed the G3X Touch screens I was disturbed that I had to file the brand new displays so that the canopy would close. I did notice that there may be some space at the bottom. Perhaps it will be possible to CNC/laser cut new side panels to replace the current ones to allow mounting the Axis screens. All of the other components attached to these panels can be removed and reinstalled in a matter of minutes. If someone figures out a way and provides a reasonable upgrade kit there will be a fair amount of demand.

Van's is going to have to come up with a solution eventually. Even if the G3X Touch units are available for several more years there will be potential builders who want the latest technology and might pass on the RV-12iS ELSA if they can't get it.

Henry

 

[iwannarv]

Some dimensions on the AXIS 11.6" web page here: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviation/axis/116display/

Also in the AXIS EAB Installation Manual: https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-03123-20_01.pdf

 

[Brantel]

Looks like it’s 6.7mm thicker!!!

 

[rcarsey]

Ok guys.. here's the old and new dimensions: Looks like 10.30mm vs 17.0mm .. which is 0.248".. ~1/4" more .. thats a lot.

I'm not sure this can be done without making a significant cut into the rollbar now..

I think the only option is to relocate the unit inboard (or down, or both) so that it completely clears the bar. Both directions present some issues.

I have mailed Van's just to say that I'd be interested in a retrofit kit..

 

[Brantel]

Looked at mine closely yesterday. I don't think there is enough room in the current design to move the display down and right far enough to clear the frame's bow.
One side of mine is slightly closer than the other and to add another 6.7mm in thickness and to move it outboard another 1.955mm is going to be a show stopper until something can be figured out. Cutting into that bow or into the lower edge of the avionics shelf and its turned up angle is not something I want to do.

I expect Van's will eventually be forced to figure this out or drop the Garmin option from their offerings on the 12. Eventually Garmin will stop selling new G3X Touch systems and eventually stop supporting them. It may be better for folks upgrading to hold on to their existing screens as there may be a point in the future where folks can't get them repaired by Garmin. There are thousands of these out in the world and I would bet that many of their owners won't be so willing to upgrade down the road. This is similar to what has happened on the 430W/530W units that caused their used value to remain unusually high.

 

[rcarsey]

Looked at mine closely yesterday. I don't think there is enough room in the current design to move the display down and right far enough to clear the frame's bow.
One side of mine is slightly closer than the other and to add another 6.7mm in thickness and to move it outboard another 1.955mm is going to be a show stopper until something can be figured out. Cutting into that bow or into the lower edge of the avionics shelf and its turned up angle is not something I want to do.

I expect Van's will eventually be forced to figure this out or drop the Garmin option from their offerings on the 12. Eventually Garmin will stop selling new G3X Touch systems and eventually stop supporting them. It may be better for folks upgrading to hold on to their existing screens as there may be a point in the future where folks can't get them repaired by Garmin. There are thousands of these out in the world and I would bet that many of their owners won't be so willing to upgrade down the road. This is similar to what has happened on the 430W/530W units that caused their used value to remain unusually high.

I don't think they can lower the instrument bay's floor.. too many things would need to change -- it'd affect how the rudder pedals are mounted, how the engine is mounted, all of the forward-lower-center section (where the rudder pedal cables are).. that'd be a huge domino effect.

Redesigning the canopy .. maybe.. but that's a nonstarter for retrofitters..

Moving the screens inboard.. if we lose the radio stack, very doable.. New panel cutouts and a new way to mount those cutouts. For IFR, I guess it'd mean a $30k retrofit (less whatever we can recover by selling the g3x's, gtn650, audio panel, and AP panel). For VFR, it'd mean $10k screens, and maybe a remote radio.. Not sure any IFR plane would want to retrofit (and keep it IFR).

We can easily go to the 8" screens and avoid all the problems.. that feels like a downgrade though.

Design some sort of extension at the bottom of the instrument panel so the unit can simply be lowered. I don't know how much of that instrument panel floor is structural. The engine mount ties into it at the firewall.

Or maybe Vans determines its actually OK to cut into that canopy bow. idk

 

[Brantel]

Looking at my pics during my build, I think with new panel cutouts, the displays could be moved inboard toward the center stack something like a half inch. It would require cutting into the stupid tapered keystone design of the center stack and outer panel supports. This would basically eliminate any free space around the outer panel blanks on the inboard edge. The screen could then be screwed to the radio stack support on the inboard side. All the screws that hold the center panel in place would need to be countersunk flat heads in the areas that would end up under the screen's edge. The inboard sides of the screens would basically be butted up against the sides of the radio stack. Not sure if this will be enough though to clear the bow.

Here is my best attempt to visualize what I am thinking. For some reason Van's won't release the cad files for the panel. Seems kind of dumb since they do for all the other models.

8" screens or dropping the 507 and the 205 is a no go for me.

 

[rv12is]

Based off the front and top views provided in the manual, I created a rough 3d model of the front panel. Without a rear or side view there's not enough information to model that with any reasonable accuracy. I've attached a step file if anyone wants to 3d print it and test the fit.



Here's a couple photos comparing to the G3X.

Height is almost unchanged, but it is slightly wider.


Significantly thicker