Really want a Vans 10…sling is a siren I hear

[Hodgesdc]

Hello all. I am currently investigating a build. I currently have a straight tail ‘58 172, which my kids will use to get their license. However, I really want a cross country plane. My mission is 4 place minimum. And I must say I am totally sold on experimental. My 172 experience leads me down the path that I do not want to be certified anymore. I’ve watched the videos and the sling TSI has a lot of upside, especially when it comes to cost to operate, but I just can’t get away from the RV 10. It’s my siren song. But, I am absolutely am scared to death to build an RV 10. I have a PhD in information systems, my grandfather owned a body shop for which I grew up in so body work doesn’t scare me, I have a general contractors license and have built over 200 houses, and I am a Christmas tree Farmer, and have been since I was in kindergarten. But I am scared to death of the RV 10. I have yet to fly in either plane, I’m considering either a flight out west to hit both manufacturers places or to fly to New York and talk to Doug who I saw at Sun N fun and talk about both aircraft. For those of you here who have built RV 10s or similar, what am I missing? I have time and I plan on doing quick build kits. I would love to either fly out and talk to some of you or hear from some of you. Please give me your insight. My home base is KGEV in NC mountains…ya know the joke…mountain flying and density altitude isn’t scary if you grew up in altitude and density altitude….

 

[Kyle Boatright]

You need to sit in both aircraft and consider your mission. The RV-10 is a larger, more powerful aircraft with more interior space. The Sling will have lower operating costs because it is smaller and has a smaller, more efficient engine.

Go to Oshkosh in 5-6 weeks, sit in both, talk to the factory reps, and see if you can get a test ride.

 

[BobTurner]

Hello all. I am currently investigating a build. I currently have a straight tail ‘58 172, which my kids will use to get their license. However, I really want a cross country plane. My mission is 4 place minimum. And I must say I am totally sold on experimental. My 172 experience leads me down the path that I do not want to be certified anymore. I’ve watched the videos and the sling TSI has a lot of upside, especially when it comes to cost to operate, but I just can’t get away from the RV 10. It’s my siren song. But, I am absolutely am scared to death to build an RV 10. I have a PhD in information systems, my grandfather owned a body shop for which I grew up in so body work doesn’t scare me, I have a general contractors license and have built over 200 houses, and I am a Christmas tree Farmer, and have been since I was in kindergarten. But I am scared to death of the RV 10. I have yet to fly in either plane, I’m considering either a flight out west to hit both manufacturers places or to fly to New York and talk to Doug who I saw at Sun N fun and talk about both aircraft. For those of you here who have built RV 10s or similar, what am I missing? I have time and I plan on doing quick build kits. I would love to either fly out and talk to some of you or hear from some of you. Please give me your insight. My home base is KGEV in NC mountains.

Standard reply: build because you want to build. If you don't like it it will turn to torture. (Personally I loved the experience). Do not underestimate the time involved (years, not months). It sounds to me lidee you have the skills needed.
The -10 is a great airplane. Carries more weight than a 182, much higher speeds and lower fuel burn.

 

[Hodgesdc]

And to my own post….i am egar to learn, but I want to see…and speak. Please share your current builds. I will fly to you. I would LOVE to pick your brain.

 

[aturner]

A few brief thoughts…. The Sling and the RV-10 are an apples to oranges comparison. You need to consider what sort of flying you will be doing. We are in the midst of an Alaska adventure in our RV-10, three guys with gear flying into short gravel strips. The RV-10 does great in that environment . It also does great on the long legs…..Petersburg to Orcas Island, 4.9 hours, 45 gallons of fuel burned. Regarding the construction, it sounds like you are a builder…. Nothing to be afraid of. I did slow build and wouldn’t do it any other way. Go for it.

 

[Hodgesdc]

You need to sit in both aircraft and consider your mission. The RV-10 is a larger, more powerful aircraft with more interior space. The Sling will have lower operating costs because it is smaller and has a smaller, more efficient engine.

Go to Oshkosh in 5-6 weeks, sit in both, talk to the factory reps, and see if you can get a test ride.

That’s why I’m considering a trip out west. To demo both. I’m currently planning an air venture trip in the 172. Specifically for this reason. I’m committed to build. Trying to get as much info as possible. Thank you for your response

 

[Hodgesdc]

A few brief thoughts…. The Sling and the RV-10 are an apples to oranges comparison. You need to consider what sort of flying you will be doing. We are in the midst of an Alaska adventure in our RV-10, three guys with gear flying into short gravel strips. The RV-10 does great in that environment . It also does great on the long legs…..Petersburg to Orcas Island, 4.9 hours, 45 gallons of fuel burned. Regarding the construction, it sounds like you are a builder…. Nothing to be afraid of. I did slow build and wouldn’t do it any other way. Go for it.

I’m definitely a builder. It’s what makes me want to run away form academics.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

And to my own post….i am egar to learn, but I want to see…and speak. Please share your current builds. I will fly to you. I would LOVE to pick your brain.

Again, go to Oshkosh. There will be dozens of RV-10's and builder/pilot/owners there to talk with.

 

[Hodgesdc]

The weight of the 10 alone makes me want to lean that direction for winds at home field. I think the mission gets muddled between the two at cruise. The tsi has a “cleaner” build…less options and less to figure out. But a part of me wants to figure it out.

 

[Hodgesdc]

Standard reply: build because you want to build. If you don't like it it will turn to torture. (Personally I loved the experience). Do not underestimate the time involved (years, not months). It sounds to me lidee you have the skills needed.
The -10 is a great airplane. Carries more weight than a 182, much higher speeds and lower fuel burn.

So this is exactly where I’m at. I love building things. But, I’m scared to start and not complete. Avionics are my biggest fear, and specifically avionics during the build (wiring or channeling prior to skinning or what I’m supposed to know before I do “x”. The sling makes me wanna say “wow, I can hit a few bottons and I can build this” but the 10 says “create me” and that scares and excites me. I want to create it but I’m trying to figure out how..I don’t know what I don’t know and I’m trying to minimize that. 300k makes me wanna do that (and my wife). But like I said, I’m a sponge. I can learn techniques and I can buy tools…I’m a builder (can’t build without the proper tools) but I also wanna learn.

 

[Ironflight]

The weight of the 10 alone makes me want to lean that direction for winds at home field. I think the mission gets muddled between the two at cruise. The tsi has a “cleaner” build…less options and less to figure out. But a part of me wants to figure it out.

I’ve fown, evaluated, and tested both airplanes - and they’re both great machines. I woudl expect that with your background, yoou can build either of them. Learning new techniques and how to figure things out is what E-Ab is all about! If choosing between the two, think of the Tsi as a nice sedan, and the RV-10 as an SUV - they both have four seats, but the -10 is larger. If you lived out here where we have actual mountains (), the Tsi has that turbo-normalized engine …but I have always figure the cross-over in Horsepower between a stock 540 and a stock 916 is probably around 13,000’. So if you’re not operating at that DA all the time, the -10 will have more smash. The Tsi is a very nice airplane f you build it like the factory wants you to - with all their subkits and interior components. The -10 gives you a more basic bird to ad to as you want - and many of them are far fancier than many Tsi’s. Long before you get to the point where you are choosing “finishing” items, you’ll be an experienced builder, or you’ll have quit….with either choice.

Sit in them both, fly them both, and most importantly, run the performance numbers of both before you decide.

 

[rocketman1988]

As others have said, it's apples to oranges. For my mission, the -10 wins hands down.

The Facts are:

It will take longer than you think.

It will cost more than you think.

IF you finish, it will be worth it.

It really comes down to you. If you have the will to see the project through, you won't regret it.

 

[Hodgesdc]

As others have said, it's apples to oranges. For my mission, the -10 wins hands down.

The Facts are:

It will take longer than you think.

It will cost more than you think.

IF you finish, it will be worth it.

It really comes down to you. If you have the will to see the project through, you won't regret it.

Thank you I truly appreciate your comment and I understand. Failure has rarely been an option for me which is why I’m trying to make the best choice. However, I’m a softie for a challenge and to do what I think I can’t do which is why the 10 calls my name . I’ll be honest that I’m 52 and I want to do this before I loose my medical but I want to leave my currently 14 and 15 yo kids (boy and girl respectively) with an aircraft they want to fight over-and they will be required to help me build.

 

[wirejock]

Another option not discussed is Buulder/Factory Assist and or Quick Build. A couple of dear friends of ours built and flew their Sling in 9 months. Say hello to Josh and Chels @ Airventure. I'm sure they will be either at Sling or Garmin.

It took me 12 years to build and fly my 7A. Life has a tendency to interrupt plans. I thought I could do it in Vans estimated <3000 man hours. No sweat. Maybe two years. 2080 man hours per year working full time in the shop. I can do that. No way. There's always something else going on. I have closer to 5000 man hours in it, but it's done and it's mine. I'm sure mine is not the typical, but it's important to know going in. So consider QBs and builder assist if you want something soon.

 

[Hodgesdc]

Another option not discussed is Buulder/Factory Assist and or Quick Build. A couple of dear friends of ours built and flew their Sling in 9 months. Say hello to Josh and Chels @ Airventure. I'm sure they will be either at Sling or Garmin.

It took me 12 years to build and fly my 7A. Life has a tendency to interrupt plans. I thought I could do it in Vans estimated <3000 man hours. No sweat. Maybe two years. 2080 man hours per year working full time in the shop. I can do that. No way. There's always something else going on. I have closer to 5000 man hours in it, but it's done and it's mine. I'm sure mine is not the typical, but it's important to know going in. So consider QBs and builder assist if you want something soon.

I am for sure considering builder assist, but the cost is ….a lot. I have built my net worth using my skills. It’s taken time but it’s been worth it. Im not going to disregard builder assist or some form of it, but I’m naive enough and tight enough to go it alone and lean on the air force for guidance. But I’m not dumb enough to to say I won’t do builder assist. My kids are active in travel sports. My wife is familiar with the “aluminum mistress” of the hangar and 172. So you never know

 

[Hodgesdc]

A few brief thoughts…. The Sling and the RV-10 are an apples to oranges comparison. You need to consider what sort of flying you will be doing. We are in the midst of an Alaska adventure in our RV-10, three guys with gear flying into short gravel strips. The RV-10 does great in that environment . It also does great on the long legs…..Petersburg to Orcas Island, 4.9 hours, 45 gallons of fuel burned. Regarding the construction, it sounds like you are a builder…. Nothing to be afraid of. I did slow build and wouldn’t do it any other way. Go for it.

Man, you sound like my brain.

 

[lr172]

Too bad, i was in Asheville last weekend with the 10. Would have taken you for a ride. Its hard to beat the space and load carrying capacity of a 10. I was able to get my kids entire dorm room contents in the 10. Probably the only kids on campus that got moved in and out via airplane. I built sparse and have a 7-800 lb passenger/baggage capacity with full fuel. Took off once at 11,000 da from a 5000’ strip. In ground effect half down the runway and that was at gross. The 10 has very good power reserve. I get excellent economy up high. At 15,000’, i only burn a bit more than 9 gph for 165 kts.

 

[johntwilcox]

Man, you sound like my brain.

My neighbor went through this very exercise himself.

You sound more than capable of building either, so that’s the same.

They both have great support, vendor and more importantly community, that’s the same. Sling I’ll be quicker to build generally.

What you were not clear on is what you think your mission for the plane will be.

From a distance, they may look similar, but they are really not. The 10 is a true 4 place aircraft, you can take 4 adults in comfort, and still have room for baggage and fuel .

The Sling is a 2 adults, 2 young kids aircraft. Not only is is more limited in weight, the back seats are not adult comfortable size, both limited leg room, and even worse, head room is very cramped.

If you will be flying 2 adults, and a dog, or bags, Sling is your 911 , fun to drive sports car, with back seats for show only.

They 10 is a Bronco, 4 adults, bags, and capable of taking it all on a journey.

If you’re looking for 4 adult capability, Sling is not that.

Find some one with each, or if you can make it to OSH, and explore, sit in each, from and back seats.

Be clear on your requirements.

 

[hgerhardt]

Since I've spent lots of time at the Sling KTOA build center integrating my aircon system, I'll say that the level of factory integration of an overall package is far better than the RV-10. The interior is nice, the firewall comes with all holes, so they are quite similar firewall-forward (it seems every RV builder knows better than Van's as to plumbing layout, etc), and therefore easier/faster to install. And they have an excellent in-house paint shop.

The TSi is smaller inside for sure, but it will hold a pair of 170-lb, 5'8" people in the back seats just fine. And unless you're in the flight levels, it's significantly slower. Sling's demo TSi (at 10k') is good for 140 KTAS with the original MT prop, and around 150 with the new Catto test prop.

You can opt for the build center at KTOA like the AV101 kids did, and have it done in 9 months or less. And by the time you get your kit, we'll have the 25-lb aircon system available, which works as well as what's in a small Toyota, and actually blows cold air in your face like your car instead of on top of your head like the RV systems do.

The RV-10 is bigger inside and flies faster. But if you want it painted and the interior nicely finished, you'll have to choose which 3rd-party kits to buy, and find a painter (unless you do it yourself). And Lycoming wait times are legendary these days, so plan accordingly.

 

[BobTurner]

Thank you I truly appreciate your comment and I understand. Failure has rarely been an option for me which is why I’m trying to make the best choice. However, I’m a softie for a challenge and to do what I think I can’t do which is why the 10 calls my name . I’ll be honest that I’m 52 and I want to do this before I loose my medical but I want to leave my currently 14 and 15 yo kids (boy and girl respectively) with an aircraft they want to fight over-and they will be required to help me build.

I started my -10 at age 59.
Go to basic med, now, unless you really need an FAA medical.
Consider that by the time the plane is flying it’s very likely that the kids will be out of the house.
I personally have a low opinion of ‘builder assist’. A few actually teach you how to do the work. But many do the work for you. Do you know of the 51% rule? There can be nothing worse than finishing an airplane and being denied an A/W certificate because of too much paid help.

 

[Raiz]

I've just completed an RV-10 and I did the final assembly at a Sling build assist workshop. In my view there's nothing (of a technical nature) to be scared of in either build, as long as you tap into sources of support. You can buy the bits you don't want to do yourself like say panel design. That means if you can build one, you can build the other.

BUT, the Sling kit is more complete with interior, avionics and wiring options available. It is also also designed for faster construction with better GRP parts (a big time consumer in the RV-10), pulled rivets and (yuk) Rivnuts instead of anchor nuts. That all means an RV-10 will take you longer, maybe even twice as long. If, like me, you enjoy the build process, longer is better. If you don't, it will drag and you are less likely to finish it. On the other hand, the RV-10 is more of a blank canvas so if you want to personalize the interior, electrics or avionics you've got more scope.

I suggest you check the CG of the Sling meets your needs. I've heard some people say (but I've seen no hard evidence) that the CG is aft in a standard TSi and that restricts your mission before the gross weight. The same could be said of the -10 but only if you choose options that take the CG to the back like dual lead acid batteries, aircon and a composite prop.

Good luck!

 

[Richard Connell]

I’ve helped a buddy build a sling with build assist and have done plenty of flying with him in it.
It’s a very well documented kit which goes together way easier than an RV and is a nice flying efficient airplane. Especially up high. Sure the 10 is faster but realistically over most flights that’s measured in minutes not hours and the sling uses plenty less fuel.
However, you can forget about carrying 4 normal people and bags any meaningful distance. If you stick Aircon and/or a chute (which plenty of builders do apparently) then it’s a 3 seater for anything but short hops. The CG point is right too. Many of them need to carry ballast up front in one form or another.
Like most of the feedback here already I agree that the first thing you need to address is the mission.
The sling is a sweet plane, you’d no doubt get flying way quicker, but it’s a significantly smaller plane than a 10.

 

[BurnieM]

Consider the Sling TSI a faster, more fuel efficient and sportier version of your 172.
Just like your 172 it cannot take 4 adults, luggage and full tanks cross country. It can take 50 pounds more luggage than a 172.

Test fly them both then pick one.

 

[kirkbauer]

So this is exactly where I’m at. I love building things. But, I’m scared to start and not complete. Avionics are my biggest fear, and specifically avionics during the build (wiring or channeling prior to skinning or what I’m supposed to know before I do “x”. The sling makes me wanna say “wow, I can hit a few bottons and I can build this” but the 10 says “create me” and that scares and excites me. I want to create it but I’m trying to figure out how..I don’t know what I don’t know and I’m trying to minimize that. 300k makes me wanna do that (and my wife). But like I said, I’m a sponge. I can learn techniques and I can buy tools…I’m a builder (can’t build without the proper tools) but I also wanna learn.

I'm pretty sure that the #1 thing that people outsource is the exterior paint, but the #2 thing is the avionics wiring. It's true that Van's provides almost zero guidance on the electrical. But there are shops that you can hire to do it. I don't know if they can do the full electrical or not but I assume at least they could provide a full wiring diagram that you could follow.

Thank you I truly appreciate your comment and I understand. Failure has rarely been an option for me which is why I’m trying to make the best choice. However, I’m a softie for a challenge and to do what I think I can’t do which is why the 10 calls my name . I’ll be honest that I’m 52 and I want to do this before I loose my medical but I want to leave my currently 14 and 15 yo kids (boy and girl respectively) with an aircraft they want to fight over-and they will be required to help me build.

Good luck with the kids. I offer my teenagers $10/hr to help me and they almost never take me up on it.

 

[MacCool]

My wife is familiar with the “aluminum mistress” of the hangar and 172. So you never know

My guess is that you may think that she's familiar, but the time and energy commitment of the several-year build process of a Van's kit is going to be a whole different thing than owning/flying a 172, by a couple of orders of magnitude.

If I was going to build an airplane (I'm not - juice not worth the squeeze for me), it would be a Sling via their builder-assist program. That would at least allow me to offload a large portion of the heartache and frustration of the build process on to a crew of people who know what they're doing.

 

[kirkbauer]

My guess is that you may think that she's familiar, but the time and energy commitment of the several-year build process of a Van's kit is going to be a whole different thing than owning/flying a 172, by a couple of orders of magnitude.

My wife will be happy if I never build another airplane. I'm going to finish my RV-10 in about 4 years with a ~1yr break due to the LCP/bankruptcy issues. I have enjoyed the process but it is a ton of work since I also have a day job and kids, etc. There are parts I haven't enjoyed (fiberglass, fuel tanks) and if I did it again I'd do quick-build wings at the least. But I'm sure it will feel great to be done. Probably the biggest surprises for me were (1) you need a helper more often than you may realize and (2) you are going to make a lot of mistakes and even though they can all be fixed the costs and stress of the mistakes take a toll on you (or me, at least).

 

[DanH]

....I just can’t get away from the RV 10. It’s my siren song. But, I am absolutely am scared to death to build an RV 10.

So tell us what scares you ....

 

[lr172]

Sling's demo TSi (at 10k') is good for 140 KTAS with the original MT prop, and around 150 with the new Catto test prop.

Didn't realize there was that big of a difference. At 10K, the 10 will do 175, if willing to throw gas at it. I always fly at 165 and at 10K, that is usually 10.5 GPH.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

........I want to leave my currently 14 and 15 yo kids (boy and girl respectively) with an aircraft they want to fight over-and they will be required to help me build.

There are many good reasons to build your own aircraft but based on my experience and watching many other aviation families, bequeathing our aircraft to the kids should not be a factor. My two children grew up watching, and occasionally assisting, me build five aircraft and even though we took family trips in planes neither of them had any interest in flight lessons. Your kids will be nearing college age by the time your project is completed so there is no way to predict where their interests will take them. As a father it is a wonderful fantasy to imagine our children adopting our aviation passion but they are going to live their own lives (just as we have!)

Build the aircraft you want and expect to pass it on to another pilot some day.

 

[RNB]

I owned a 172 first. The 10 is a different breed!

I did the vans factory tour, it was fascinating. Shortly thereafter a test flight. Both of those things have cost me a bunch of time and money.

I now own and fly a 10 and am also building one. Building is a see saw of emotions and finances. I think more people should just buy, then take a LSRM-A class to maintain the plane themselves. I have a growing pile of build errors. The sunk cost fallacy has me build on.

If you want to visit my build and fly in my 10, travel east. Look me up or send a PM.

FYI I know of a 10 builder ready to sell a “mostly” completed project. Fiberglass work not started, lots else done. Lcp replaced. Engine core might be available. In NC. Really looking to just get his money out of it. Nice guy, I trust him.

 

[Notso]

Hello all. I am currently investigating a build. I currently have a straight tail ‘58 172, which my kids will use to get their license. However, I really want a cross country plane. My mission is 4 place minimum. And I must say I am totally sold on experimental. My 172 experience leads me down the path that I do not want to be certified anymore. I’ve watched the videos and the sling TSI has a lot of upside, especially when it comes to cost to operate, but I just can’t get away from the RV 10. It’s my siren song. But, I am absolutely am scared to death to build an RV 10. I have a PhD in information systems, my grandfather owned a body shop for which I grew up in so body work doesn’t scare me, I have a general contractors license and have built over 200 houses, and I am a Christmas tree Farmer, and have been since I was in kindergarten. But I am scared to death of the RV 10. I have yet to fly in either plane, I’m considering either a flight out west to hit both manufacturers places or to fly to New York and talk to Doug who I saw at Sun N fun and talk about both aircraft. For those of you here who have built RV 10s or similar, what am I missing? I have time and I plan on doing quick build kits. I would love to either fly out and talk to some of you or hear from some of you. Please give me your insight. My home base is KGEV in NC mountains…ya know the joke…mountain flying and density altitude isn’t scary if you grew up in altitude and density altitude….

I know this will be heretical to most folks here....... but if you're scared to build, why not just buy a nice, lightly used RV-10 that someone else put the time and effort in and moved on? My understanding is by the time you buy all the tools and everything else - not to mention the massive time involved - even with quick build kits - you're not really saving that much money over buying one ready to fly on the used market.

My sense is the vast majority of folks who build their own do it mostly because they love the journey of building. Not to save on the overall cost of a finished airplane. And I personally think (and I'm sure I'll be told I'm wrong) that doing a much more complex build like an RV-10 as your first kit is probably a bigger bite of the elephant than most people can chew. You REALLY have to ask yourself and look yourself in the mirror - do you want to build for a couple of years Minimum (probably realistically 3-5 yrs even with a QB kit unless you're literally doing it full time)?? Or do you want to go fly on a XC tomorrow? There's no right answer - only what works best for you.

YMMV. Good luck.

 

[Hodgesdc]

Too bad, i was in Asheville last weekend with the 10. Would have taken you for a ride. Its hard to beat the space and load carrying capacity of a 10. I was able to get my kids entire dorm room contents in the 10. Probably the only kids on campus that got moved in and out via airplane. I built sparse and have a 7-800 lb passenger/baggage capacity with full fuel. Took off once at 11,000 da from a 5000’ strip. In ground effect half down the runway and that was at gross. The 10 has very good power reserve. I get excellent economy up high. At 15,000’, i only burn a bit more than 9 gph for 165 kts.

That's good to know. If you ever get back up this way KGEV is just a jump away....and I could probably get down to you if your back in NC.

 

[Hodgesdc]

As others have said, it's apples to oranges. For my mission, the -10 wins hands down.

The Facts are:

It will take longer than you think.

It will cost more than you think.

IF you finish, it will be worth it.

It really comes down to you. If you have the will to see the project through, you won't regret it.

Yeah, sounds a lot like building houses....but it is completely correct!

 

[Hodgesdc]

My neighbor went through this very exercise himself.

You sound more than capable of building either, so that’s the same.

They both have great support, vendor and more importantly community, that’s the same. Sling I’ll be quicker to build generally.

What you were not clear on is what you think your mission for the plane will be.

From a distance, they may look similar, but they are really not. The 10 is a true 4 place aircraft, you can take 4 adults in comfort, and still have room for baggage and fuel .

The Sling is a 2 adults, 2 young kids aircraft. Not only is is more limited in weight, the back seats are not adult comfortable size, both limited leg room, and even worse, head room is very cramped.

If you will be flying 2 adults, and a dog, or bags, Sling is your 911 , fun to drive sports car, with back seats for show only.

They 10 is a Bronco, 4 adults, bags, and capable of taking it all on a journey.

If you’re looking for 4 adult capability, Sling is not that.

Find some one with each, or if you can make it to OSH, and explore, sit in each, from and back seats.

Be clear on your requirements.

The mission is a family hauler. My wife generally doesn't fly with me that often, but will go on longer trips with me when it meets her needs. The kids are all in and Ill need the cargo space. MOST of my needs would be met by the TSI, and I know that, but I'm also a cover-all-my-bases kinda guy. When I farm/build/teach I generally overdo things for peace of mind. Time is an issue on the build, but I just finished remodeling a house on our farm, built in 1939. Complete stirp and redo. I did all the work myself-jacked the house up and relaid the back half foundation, new bath addition, I do all my own electrical work, siding, decks, drywall, cabinet installs, tile, etc., etc., etc. It took me three years while starting a farm and teaching/researching at the university. A LOT of weekends, and I have my summers and down time over the holidays. Im thinking this project is much the same from a time standpoint. I moslty want to make sure that Im covering all my bases and not going in too deep on the crafting of the 10 as I know the TSI is a bit more stratiforward.

 

[Mel]

As I (and others) have been preaching for many, many years:

"If you want to build an airplane, build an airplane. If you want an airplane, buy an airplane!"

 

[Hodgesdc]

I've just completed an RV-10 and I did the final assembly at a Sling build assist workshop. In my view there's nothing (of a technical nature) to be scared of in either build, as long as you tap into sources of support. You can buy the bits you don't want to do yourself like say panel design. That means if you can build one, you can build the other.

BUT, the Sling kit is more complete with interior, avionics and wiring options available. It is also also designed for faster construction with better GRP parts (a big time consumer in the RV-10), pulled rivets and (yuk) Rivnuts instead of anchor nuts. That all means an RV-10 will take you longer, maybe even twice as long. If, like me, you enjoy the build process, longer is better. If you don't, it will drag and you are less likely to finish it. On the other hand, the RV-10 is more of a blank canvas so if you want to personalize the interior, electrics or avionics you've got more scope.

I suggest you check the CG of the Sling meets your needs. I've heard some people say (but I've seen no hard evidence) that the CG is aft in a standard TSi and that restricts your mission before the gross weight. The same could be said of the -10 but only if you choose options that take the CG to the back like dual lead acid batteries, aircon and a composite prop.

Good luck!

Definitely heard of the aft CGI on the TSI on AV101.

 

[Hodgesdc]

I'm pretty sure that the #1 thing that people outsource is the exterior paint, but the #2 thing is the avionics wiring. It's true that Van's provides almost zero guidance on the electrical. But there are shops that you can hire to do it. I don't know if they can do the full electrical or not but I assume at least they could provide a full wiring diagram that you could follow.



Good luck with the kids. I offer my teenagers $10/hr to help me and they almost never take me up on it.

That's good advice. I know Midwest does the Tsi...I think they do the 10 as well. Ive watched the recent build on Base Leg but haven't found a more detailed build yet on the 10. I have seen them pull cables for the AP and such and am wondering if its standard wiring for AP, Heated Pito, lights, etc or if you need to have all that picked out and ordered prior to the build starting? I know with some Tsi builds I've watched, they pretty much hand 60k over to Midwest, and the harnesses and panel show up. They kids do pretty well most of the time, sometimes, when threatened. I may try to pay them They do help and get paid when at the farm or helping me build things, but they are busy. I generally want them to be excited to work with me and do this project, but I also am firmly knowledgeable that this is Dad's thing.

 

[Hodgesdc]

There are many good reasons to build your own aircraft but based on my experience and watching many other aviation families, bequeathing our aircraft to the kids should not be a factor. My two children grew up watching, and occasionally assisting, me build five aircraft and even though we took family trips in planes neither of them had any interest in flight lessons. Your kids will be nearing college age by the time your project is completed so there is no way to predict where their interests will take them. As a father it is a wonderful fantasy to imagine our children adopting our aviation passion but they are going to live their own lives (just as we have!)

Build the aircraft you want and expect to pass it on to another pilot some day.

That is absolutely great advice. The kids are in lessons with the 172. Daughter is less interested in the path but loves to fly and learn. The boy is on the path. They may choose to do differently, but they have the opportunity, and that's really all that I can give them.

 

[Bcone1381]

I have four grown boys. None fly. i wanted them to but its okay that they dont. I think if I would have told them at age 13 "You Cant Fly" they all would have pursued it.

On whether to build or not. Your a builder. You know what you want. Just go for it. It almost does not matter which design you choose. Both are great choices...there may be no wrong answer. Everything wont be figured out before you make the decision to build. If you can build and not screw up your marriage, your children's education, and your retirement, go for it. You'll figure it out along the way.