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-15 Build Time Guesses….

Utah-Jay

Utah-Jay

Well Known Member
From the videos I have been watching on RV-15 builds the kit looks amazing, here is an example of what I have been watching,

The fact that there is a wiring harness with the kit shocked me.

So the question is and will be purely speculative but hey way not? How many hours do you think it will take to build the 15? With it being a match drilled kit it just seems like a dream after building my Bearhawk Companion.

Rans quoted the S-21 as 700-1000 hours, I am typically gonna guess it is going to be on the higher end of the company estimate.

Is 1000-1200 hours doable/possible?

Let’s add the caveat of having no back ordered parts so it is just building and not waiting.

Next question, having never built a Vans aircraft, does a FWF kit using a known engine (IO-390) include all the hoses, and accessories?

Does anyone think there will be a Berringer wheel size choice? I ask because my desired tire is the Desser 27.5 which is a bit odd in that it requires an 8” wheel.
 
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Utah-Jay said:
So the question is and will be purely speculative but hey way not? How many hours do you think it will take to build the 15? With it being a match drilled kit it just seems like a dream after building my Bearhawk Companion.

Rans quoted the S-21 as 700-1000 hours, I am typically gonna guess it is going to be on the higher end of the company estimate.

Is 1000-1200 hours doable/possible?
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I think so. I'm terrible about tracking time for stuff like this. It's also hard to say because we haven't seen anything but the wing kit. That said, comparing to my -12 build, it seems to be streamlined a little bit more. That range is reasonable for a -12 so I think there it's realistic for a -15 too.
Utah-Jay said:
Next question, having never built a Vans aircraft, does a FWF kit using a known engine (IO-390) include all the hoses, and accessories?
Click to expand...

This will almost certainly be the case with the -15, which will factor heavily into that 1000-1200 hour prospects. To use the RV-12 example, the firewall forward includes every single item you will need and it's easily completed in a couple weekends.
 
Utah-Jay said:
From the videos I have been watching on RV-15 builds the kit looks amazing, here is an example of what I have been watching,

The fact that there is a wiring harness with the kit shocked me.

So the question is and will be purely speculative but hey way not? How many hours do you think it will take to build the 15? With it being a match drilled kit it just seems like a dream after building my Bearhawk Companion.

Rans quoted the S-21 as 700-1000 hours, I am typically gonna guess it is going to be on the higher end of the company estimate.

Is 1000-1200 hours doable/possible?

Let’s add the caveat of having no back ordered parts so it is just building and not waiting.

Next question, having never built a Vans aircraft, does a FWF kit using a known engine (IO-390) include all the hoses, and accessories?

Does anyone think there will be a Berringer wheel size choice? I ask because my desired tire is the Desser 27.5 which is a bit odd in that it requires an 8” wheel.
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Jay with your work ethic, I think you could have it flying in 18 months...of course that is predicated on you having "no back ordered parts". The RV-14 is almost too easy to build...the 15 appears to be even easier.
 
Mark Dickens said:
Jay with your work ethic, I think you could have it flying in 18 months...of course that is predicated on you having "no back ordered parts". The RV-14 is almost too easy to build...the 15 appears to be even easier.
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Thanks Mark

It looks like a cool build

Now I just need to sell my BH
 
A capable builder (I.E., someone with prior experience building major projects , and / or skilled mechanically) can build an RV-12 in 500-600 hrs.
Since the RV-15 will be very similar to the 12, just a bit bigger in size, I think 700–800 hours might be possible.
 
It kinda depends on how complete the kit is when you receive it. I'm going on 2 months since receiving my kit, and I am still waiting for my LP4-3 pull rivets. Not a single rivet was in the kit. I have run out of tasks here...I'm just sitting around waiting (and waiting...) As you know, this is a mostly blind rivet airplane, and without those, I've been hard-stopped for weeks. I'm as big of a Vans fanboy as anybody here, but it's hard to keep the shine when I know for a fact that kits have gone out after mine with all of their LP4-3 rivets! So why have I been left hanging? Beats me. I've talked to the parts team several times. They are always very friendly on the phone, so I can't fault them for being courteous. But despite many phone conversations, they have been ineffective in shipping out any blind rivets. I simply don't understand. I really hope that the parts situation is better with subsequent kits, because the lack of results on parts so far has been quite disappointing.
 
The structure will go together pretty quickly based on my experience so far.

As others have mentioned, the main time determinant for someone with a lot of time to dedicate to the build will be the availability of the subkits, the completeness of said kits (still issues with backorders, etc), and the availability of a suitable engine.

I am afraid IO-390 availability will keep a lot of the 15 kits on the ground longer than people want.
 
Gash said:
It kinda depends on how complete the kit is when you receive it. I'm going on 2 months since receiving my kit, and I am still waiting for my LP4-3 pull rivets. Not a single rivet was in the kit. I have run out of tasks here...I'm just sitting around waiting (and waiting...) As you know, this is a mostly blind rivet airplane, and without those, I've been hard-stopped for weeks. I'm as big of a Vans fanboy as anybody here, but it's hard to keep the shine when I know for a fact that kits have gone out after mine with all of their LP4-3 rivets! So why have I been left hanging? Beats me. I've talked to the parts team several times. They are always very friendly on the phone, so I can't fault them for being courteous. But despite many phone conversations, they have been ineffective in shipping out any blind rivets. I simply don't understand. I really hope that the parts situation is better with subsequent kits, because the lack of results on parts so far has been quite disappointing.
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You express yourself in such a restrained way...Vans does an awful job of communicating. I don't understand it...why not address this issue publicly?
 
Gash said:
It kinda depends on how complete the kit is when you receive it. I'm going on 2 months since receiving my kit, and I am still waiting for my LP4-3 pull rivets. Not a single rivet was in the kit. I have run out of tasks here...I'm just sitting around waiting (and waiting...) As you know, this is a mostly blind rivet airplane, and without those, I've been hard-stopped for weeks. I'm as big of a Vans fanboy as anybody here, but it's hard to keep the shine when I know for a fact that kits have gone out after mine with all of their LP4-3 rivets! So why have I been left hanging? Beats me. I've talked to the parts team several times. They are always very friendly on the phone, so I can't fault them for being courteous. But despite many phone conversations, they have been ineffective in shipping out any blind rivets. I simply don't understand. I really hope that the parts situation is better with subsequent kits, because the lack of results on parts so far has been quite disappointing.
Click to expand...

I would have been camped out at their front door long ago. I'm wondering if some of us may have to do the same if these kits don't ship soon. I'm paid in full, with an agreement in writing(email) that they would ship what they had and send the rest later. They backed out of that to this 4/20 date. All these symptoms are indicators of a much bigger problem within the company.
 
flymore said:
I would have been camped out at their front door long ago. I'm wondering if some of us may have to do the same if these kits don't ship soon. I'm paid in full, with an agreement in writing(email) that they would ship what they had and send the rest later. They backed out of that to this 4/20 date. All these symptoms are indicators of a much bigger problem within the company.
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My suspicion is a combination of a shortage of working capital and genuine supply chain shortages. I'd bet that there are some vendors that took a haircut in the bankruptcy and have Vans on a very tight leash payment wise. FWIW
 
Gash said:
It kinda depends on how complete the kit is when you receive it. I'm going on 2 months since receiving my kit, and I am still waiting for my LP4-3 pull rivets. Not a single rivet was in the kit. I have run out of tasks here...I'm just sitting around waiting (and waiting...) As you know, this is a mostly blind rivet airplane, and without those, I've been hard-stopped for weeks. I'm as big of a Vans fanboy as anybody here, but it's hard to keep the shine when I know for a fact that kits have gone out after mine with all of their LP4-3 rivets! So why have I been left hanging? Beats me. I've talked to the parts team several times. They are always very friendly on the phone, so I can't fault them for being courteous. But despite many phone conversations, they have been ineffective in shipping out any blind rivets. I simply don't understand. I really hope that the parts situation is better with subsequent kits, because the lack of results on parts so far has been quite disappointing.
Click to expand...
You are a lot more patient than I would be. This is beyond ridiculous. Honestly, it makes me rethink even trying to build this plane. I'm going to delay ordering a tail kit as I don't want to send them any more money until they deliver my wing kit in full. Come on Van's - be straight with us as to what's going on.

You shouldn't have to - but I'm pretty sure the LP4-3 rivets are Gesipa rivets available elsewhere. Why not order your own and try to back charge Van's? https://www.baysupply.com/products/gsmd41-43apg-b-bayfast
 
Getting off track a bit, but I certainly do not like even the speculation of bankruptcy hangover relating to the supply chain.

I am impatient and as @Mark Dickens said above do not waste time so IF I had rivets I could source somewhere else I would likely just buy them and get working.

But I like the messages above about realistically building a -15 in under 1000 hours. Makes it all the more appealing.

Things I plan to do that will likely add a bit of time:
1) remote oil filter
2) have a dedicated panel switch to run cameras
3) wire plane power to run cameras
4) add a doubler on a rib to permit the mounting of a boom stick
 
Mark Dickens said:
My suspicion is a combination of a shortage of working capital and genuine supply chain shortages. I'd bet that there are some vendors that took a haircut in the bankruptcy and have Vans on a very tight leash payment wise. FWIW
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If they are even willing to do business at all with them.
 
FWIW, with two of us building, we have logged 55 hours and have nearly completed skinning the left wing, finished both elevators, and built 1.5 flaps (missing a LE rib). We are not priming except where necessary.

It comes together very quickly and fits together very well compared to all the non-12 (fit, match, drill, deburr, dimple, refit, rivet) kits. Honestly, I feel like the claim that they got the office staff to build it in just a few days might be an exaggeration but we expected to have the wings completed and be waiting on the next kit and would definitely have had it done by now if not for the substantial number of backordered and missing essential parts we had.

Also, try not to screw anything up, we need to reorder a set of flap cove brackets because we didn't like the end result when the tracks were installed and they are backordered now, too 😩
 
543TB said:
FWIW, with two of us building, we have logged 55 hours and have nearly completed skinning the left wing, finished both elevators, and built 1.5 flaps (missing a LE rib). We are not priming except where necessary.

It comes together very quickly and fits together very well compared to all the non-12 (fit, match, drill, deburr, dimple, refit, rivet) kits. Honestly, I feel like the claim that they got the office staff to build it in just a few days might be an exaggeration but we expected to have the wings completed and be waiting on the next kit and would definitely have had it done by now if not for the substantial number of backordered and missing essential parts we had.

Also, try not to screw anything up, we need to reorder a set of flap cove brackets because we didn't like the end result when the tracks were installed and they are backordered now, too 😩
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Wow that is quick. Is that 55 hours total between the two of you? Is there much deburring and fluting to do?

I get my kit Monday.
 
Jetmart said:
Wow that is quick. Is that 55 hours total between the two of you? Is there much deburring and fluting to do?

I get my kit Monday.
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Total time that one or both of us (usually both) have been engaged with the build, so probably double the time to get the single person estimate. There are certainly portions that require or go much easier with two people.

Most parts need deburring on one side, fluting was minimal compared to the -7.

👍 On getting the kit. Inventory VERY carefully. The part on the flap we're missing is labelled one thing on the inventory list and something else on the KAI. We checked it off as received within the packing subkit but cannot find it now.
 
543TB said:
👍 On getting the kit. Inventory VERY carefully. The part on the flap we're missing is labelled one thing on the inventory list and something else on the KAI. We checked it off as received within the packing subkit but cannot find it now.
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Same for me. I had an aileron end rib that inventoried correctly but was mislabeled. Fortunately, it showed up in an unannounced package this week.

I have not added up hours (my log is on paper) but for sure the majority of time is in parts prep - plastic removal, deburring (edges of parts and one side of all prepunched holes). Minimal priming for me.

I am hoping to finish the L wing by mid april. When I do, I will post times for that. I have the L flap and aileron complete.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
A capable builder (I.E., someone with prior experience building major projects , and / or skilled mechanically) can build an RV-12 in 500-600 hrs.
Since the RV-15 will be very similar to the 12, just a bit bigger in size, I think 700–800 hours might be possible.
Click to expand...
Any guesses how much time flush riveting will add?
 
TShort said:
Same for me. I had an aileron end rib that inventoried correctly but was mislabeled. Fortunately, it showed up in an unannounced package this week.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see this. I stalled out on wing construction due to backorders, tried to start the ailerons and ran into the exact same issue. It was a head scratcher how I had it checked off on inventory but when it came time to put things together it just didn't match. I did get the right end ribs a few days ago after an email to Van's about it.

N10KE said:
Any guesses how much time flush riveting will add?
Click to expand...

I can't answer that, I can just say that I hope it's at least 3X as long as it took for us basic builders to put on 100 or so unnecessary nut plates for those access panels! :)
 
543TB said:
FWIW, with two of us building, we have logged 55 hours and have nearly completed skinning the left wing, finished both elevators, and built 1.5 flaps (missing a LE rib). We are not priming except where necessary.

Wow, I’ve got more than 55 hours in deburring…
It comes together very quickly and fits together very well compared to all the non-12 (fit, match, drill, deburr, dimple, refit, rivet) kits. Honestly, I feel like the claim that they got the office staff to build it in just a few days might be an exaggeration but we expected to have the wings completed and be waiting on the next kit and would definitely have had it done by now if not for the substantial number of backordered and missing essential parts we had.

Also, try not to screw anything up, we need to reorder a set of flap cove brackets because we didn't like the end result when the tracks were installed and they are backordered now, too 😩
Click to expand...
 
543TB said:
Total time that one or both of us (usually both) have been engaged with the build, so probably double the time to get the single person estimate. There are certainly portions that require or go much easier with two people.

Most parts need deburring on one side, fluting was minimal compared to the -7.

👍 On getting the kit. Inventory VERY carefully. The part on the flap we're missing is labelled one thing on the inventory list and something else on the KAI. We checked it off as received within the packing subkit but cannot find it now.
Click to expand...
Regarding 'Deburring One Side'. Is this acceptable? I got this advice from a few experienced builders at the airpark. I have been following this as I find one side completely smooth and without a burr.
 
daviator said:
Regarding 'Deburring One Side'. Is this acceptable? I got this advice from a few experienced builders at the airpark. I have been following this as I find one side completely smooth and without a burr.
Click to expand...
I’m deburring both sides. The point is to get rid of any sharp edges which are stress risers or crack propagation points. Just because a burr doesn’t stick up doesn’t mean there isn’t a sharp torn/sheared edge there. This is particularly true in any thin skin that gets repeated wind bouncing.
 
Alphalpha said:
I’m deburring both sides. The point is to get rid of any sharp edges which are stress risers or crack propagation points. Just because a burr doesn’t stick up doesn’t mean there isn’t a sharp torn/sheared edge there. This is particularly true in any thin skin that gets repeated wind bouncing.
Click to expand...
You have to be careful deburring thin skins, especially if you are doing both sides as it is very easy to enlarge the hole. Another consideration is that deburring both sides can actually create a stress riser within the diameter of the hole.
 
rocketman1988 said:
You have to be careful deburring thin skins, especially if you are doing both sides as it is very easy to enlarge the hole.
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Or if not enlarge the hole, greatly reduce the baring area of the edge of the hole, which is probably worse than leaving a sharp corner with no burr.
A lot of builders way overdue it when it comes to deburring rivet holes.
This is a bit less of a factor when the hole gets dimple counter sunk for a flush rivet because then the dimple is helping with some of the shear load.
 
flymore said:
This will shorten the build time a bit.

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89K views · 522 reactions | RV-15 tail kit made easy: snap-off alignment tabs on the elevator skins. No more cutting. We snap it off for you. #asmr #vansaircraft #rv15 #aviation #manufacturing | Van's Aircraft

RV-15 tail kit made easy: snap-off alignment tabs on the elevator skins. No more cutting. We snap it off for you. #asmr #vansaircraft #rv15 #aviation #manufacturing
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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Looks like they snap off pretty cleanly...

Let's hope the TE is pre-bent to the correct angle ... I would take that over the snap off tabs!
 
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