This is another place where the market has lost it's way. When people switched from building the airplane they wanted to fly (or build), to building the airplane that they wanted to sell.
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Van's Air Force
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Sonex Closing Down
- Thread starter Snowflake
- Start date
This is another place where the market has lost it's way. When people switched from building the airplane they wanted to fly (or build), to building the airplane that they wanted to sell.
The entire market has lost its way? You definitely see some of that but I think 'entire market' is being a bit dramatic. Since this is quoting me I want to be clear that the accusation is a miss. I like building. On most days I would rather build or maintain than fly. I'm building the airplane I want to *build*, not the airplane I want to sell. I really hope I can afford to keep both but that's not certain. It's a leap of faith, so I need to keep an eye out for what the worst case scenario looks like.
When I finish this airplane I have every intention to do it again, because I like to have an airplane to work on every day. I'm already daydreaming about what that will be. I really doubt that I'll ever be a 3 airplane guy so something does have to get sold along the way.
If I had chosen a Sonex for round two, there is zero doubt that my second attempt would have been my last attempt.
My own Sonex experience (both airframe and AeroVee) was not positive. This is just business doing as business does.
Yup. When a business fails in a time of greatly increased demand for its products, management usually is the problem. Obviously so in this case.
Maybe the market is similar to new vehicles. The current generation wants the wiz bang and are willing to pay for it.
All three of my vehicles are old. The youngest, airplane not included, is 20. My favorite is my Samarai. It's 40. No computer, pollution stuff, AC or Power Steering.
When I turn the key it starts. If it doesn't, I don't need a scanner to talk to it. It has a simple radio with no drive. Just a USB stuck in the front. Kinda new tech, but really cheap and doesn't care how rough the road.
Someone mentioned a few of us would love a simple new vehicle, myself included, but it won't sell. I wish. I hate all the gadgets. It's ironic I have a full Dynon panel.
I suspect EAB has gone the same direction. New builders are a new generation. They aren't Baby Boomers. They want instant gratification, all the stuff and don't mind the price. Just like a $100K pickup truck.
I think the market is changing. It's inevitable. Sonex is just the begining. I'm sad for them, but hopeful for the industry. I really enjoyed building my 7A.
All three of my vehicles are old. The youngest, airplane not included, is 20. My favorite is my Samarai. It's 40. No computer, pollution stuff, AC or Power Steering.
When I turn the key it starts. If it doesn't, I don't need a scanner to talk to it. It has a simple radio with no drive. Just a USB stuck in the front. Kinda new tech, but really cheap and doesn't care how rough the road.
Someone mentioned a few of us would love a simple new vehicle, myself included, but it won't sell. I wish. I hate all the gadgets. It's ironic I have a full Dynon panel.
I suspect EAB has gone the same direction. New builders are a new generation. They aren't Baby Boomers. They want instant gratification, all the stuff and don't mind the price. Just like a $100K pickup truck.
I think the market is changing. It's inevitable. Sonex is just the begining. I'm sad for them, but hopeful for the industry. I really enjoyed building my 7A.
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"If I had chosen a Sonex for round two, there is zero doubt that my second attempt would have been my last attempt."
Not sure how to read that...you would have been so satisfied that would be the end of your airplane project works? Why would it have been your last attempt?
Simply curious..thanks!
I have to wonder what MOSAIC will do for the EAB industry. Short term, the ability to inspect and repair an EAB that you didn't build probably bumps up values. But, a lot of people who currently build do so only because they can get so much more plane for the money, and would be just as happy to write a check for one of the many new compliant, modern MOSAIC aircraft that will be coming to market soon, or already have. These people often farm out as much of the building as possible, or just show up for the "two-weeks" and go home in their new "EAB". Pretty soon, they won't even have to do that.
Given that most of the new models will be Rotax, and offer similar or better performance in many areas, I see a lot of competition for the Vans line of two seaters. Van's may have to go back to their roots of catering to the true homebuilders and not the deep-pocketed plug-and-play crowd. The market will be smaller, and more price sensitive, and this may require some scaling back and lean operations. Not saying any of this is good or bad, just a change.
Given that most of the new models will be Rotax, and offer similar or better performance in many areas, I see a lot of competition for the Vans line of two seaters. Van's may have to go back to their roots of catering to the true homebuilders and not the deep-pocketed plug-and-play crowd. The market will be smaller, and more price sensitive, and this may require some scaling back and lean operations. Not saying any of this is good or bad, just a change.
I would be somewhere in that build right now, with the factory closing up shop. I am not embarrassed to admit that with zero factory support I am the type that would be unlikely to finish. Others who are better and more experienced would do better. I would most likely be defeated, with a pile of what I expect would be low value Sonex parts.
I’m aware that the same could happen with my current project. My opinion is that while the investment is larger, my odds are better. Just the way I calculate the risk but it’s far from certain either way.
Anyway, I only meant it as a matter of circumstance. Consequences of losing the mothership.
Agree, but disagree. Two financially reasonable paths will still exist in EAB. 1. Abandoned projects can be a real bargain. 2. There is still some potential in the used market. You can buy the low end bargain and over the course of 5-10 years make it your dream airplane. I paid $72K for my flying RV8 in 2015. Over the last 10 years I have made it "MY" airplane. Couldn't have afforded to buy an airplane equivalent to my now "perfect" RV in 2015 and certainly couldn't afford to go out and buy a comparable RV now. And 10 years from now a 2026 buyer could be relating the same story.
And BTW, I think $50K paint jobs and $70K avionics should not be considered a positive when judging for awards at OSH.
Off topic
I made a habit of checking the Oshkosh winners and all the runners up and cross reference the N number to the EVoke pictures. I wasn’t surprised that 1/2 or more RVs were painted by EVoke. I would think scratch build should weight a huge amount more but they are compared to the same standards as the semi professional built RVs.
I'm personally aware of several recent builds and still-under-construction aircraft that came in (or will come in) at astonishingly low prices because the builder(s) waited for deals and didn't choose every option in the Garmin or South Florida Aviation catalog. Nor did they go to Evoke for paint. Not to take issue with any of those things, but they all come at a premium cost. If delivering a functional, fun airplane at a reasonable price is the goal, you've gotta make your choices with the end goal in mind.
Jerry Fischer
Well Known Member
You would think that increased competition would lower prices to remain competitive but I'm afraid that ship has sailed with the overall devaluation of the US Dollar.
Way too simplistic (at least on the former) IMO as a repeat customer/builder/owner of the former. Low volume, highly cyclical, and Low recurring revenue. A lot of the razor vs razor blade analogy. A close friend rose to senior management at Chrysler and enlightened me greatly about the difficulties of the “razor” business (limited recurring revenue).
Also, Lancair maybe reached the 52 week to taxi. The “K” shaped economy really squeezing the business of selling to the budget minded “true” homebuilders. I’m modifying and rebuilding an old Kolb Firestar. $25.50 for a simple AN115-21 cable shackle. Pretty eye watering prices to produce even a simple entry level ultralight these days..
If you are going down that road, then builder assist is a negative, as well...
All this talk of "true" homebuilders and "back in MY day" and if you buy a pre-punched kit you're not a "real builder" and the like...as if markets never change. Looked for any good buggy whip manufacturers lately? Want to call yourself a "true" homebuilder? *Design* and build your own plane. Maybe go mine some bauxite and smelt your own aluminum.
Aircraft, even homebuilts, are I think a VERY elastic demand curve, in several dimensions. Kind of an elasticmanifold hypersurface, you could say. So to insist that things return to the 1960s both in terms of suppliers AND the marketplace of buyers is, IMO, a pipe dream.
Aircraft, even homebuilts, are I think a VERY elastic demand curve, in several dimensions. Kind of an elastic
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I thought 2026 Judging was going to take some of that into account. No idea how, but I agree. Amateur work should get some weight. Isn't that what EAB is all about?
That said, I didn't mine the boxite, cut and stitch the faux leather, assemble the engine or make all the circuit boards, but I did everything by myself with Sweetie. We are proud of what we built.
Yep. Vans original advice is still sound. Mid-time lycoming, fixed pitch prop, and simple interior and avionics. Add upgrades later. I put about the price of a new Chevy suburban into my build, over 4.5 years. Kit prices have gone up yes, but the cost of capable avionics has gone down. I still see ads for good deals on used engines. I have zero interest in a trophy at Oshkosh, yet my RV grin is as big, or bigger, than anybody’s.
I’m not convinced this is really about a younger generation wanting fancy interiors and avionics.
When I got the urge to build, I gave Sonex a serious look, but in the end I moved toward Van’s because it was closer to the certified world I had cut my teeth in. That was important to me. I wanted a well-engineered airplane with the kind of fit, finish, paint, and panel that matched the airplane I had in my head.
That includes the nice interior and modern avionics, and I’m certainly not part of the younger crowd people are pointing at.
I’ve never really been a scratch-builder type. What appealed to me was taking a thoroughly engineered kit and ending up with an airplane that had all the bells and whistles. Resale value matters too, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with admitting that, but the bigger thing for me was that the Van’s build experience lined up with exactly what I wanted out of the project.
I’m pretty sure I would not have had the same satisfaction building a different kind of kit. To me that says more about how broad the EAB world has become than it does about any one generation losing its roots.
When I got the urge to build, I gave Sonex a serious look, but in the end I moved toward Van’s because it was closer to the certified world I had cut my teeth in. That was important to me. I wanted a well-engineered airplane with the kind of fit, finish, paint, and panel that matched the airplane I had in my head.
That includes the nice interior and modern avionics, and I’m certainly not part of the younger crowd people are pointing at.
I’ve never really been a scratch-builder type. What appealed to me was taking a thoroughly engineered kit and ending up with an airplane that had all the bells and whistles. Resale value matters too, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with admitting that, but the bigger thing for me was that the Van’s build experience lined up with exactly what I wanted out of the project.
I’m pretty sure I would not have had the same satisfaction building a different kind of kit. To me that says more about how broad the EAB world has become than it does about any one generation losing its roots.
Sonex isn't the beginning, it is midway in the process. As far as cars I agree. Would like to build a car from scratch but that is not going to happen. One of the tings I have mentioned before is the huge disparity between the cost of a used RV and the earlier EAB aircraft such as Wittman Tailwind, Thorp T18, Midget Mustang II, etc. All of the latter are way underpriced considering cost to build.
The airplanes no one has mentioned are the Zeniths. I think these are being built, mostly under the radar, in far larger numbers than most realize.
Not at all . My philosophy in life follow Charles Munger in that when you win in life, you should enjoy your money, the best metrics of the fruits of your labor. If I have that kind of money, I would have skipped the five years of trials and errors to get the best RV money can buy.
My point of the post is the EAA Lindy doesn’t weight the tremendous effort for someone who scratch build his airplane. A few years back, a gentleman built a b17 4-engine bomber from scratch and he only got an honorable mention. Same with a deceased builder who fabricated every part of the Falco from plan but he also only got an honorable mention. I get it the Lindy is a beauty contest, not a builder contest that I thought it should be. Much like Miss America pageant. The cosmetics surgeons have a lot to do with who wins and who got runner up
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Fully agree. The business may have been a passion project but at the end of the day, its highly irresponsible to take money for a product you can't deliver. If the bank has now decided to call it quits, the business will have probably been racking up debt for the last few years. It's not like this suddenly happened overnight out of the blue, it will have been heading in that direction for some time. And now people have lost real money.
Before I lost my medical, I had a Kitfox on order. It seemed to me that with them you get a lot of airplane for the money, and a lot of options to go strippy strippy or delujo.
After 10 years, I sold my RV10 for a handsome profit, yet it was still a good deal for the buyer. My timing was incredible. I'd rather be lucky than good.
As long as Cirrus has a waiting list for 7 figure airplanes, there will be 400k RV-10's with better performance. That's not the fault of Van's or the builders, it's just that there are a lot of wealthy people out there that want what they want.
IMO, the people who do real damage to EAB are the people who sell pipe dreams like the cornfield mower.
After 10 years, I sold my RV10 for a handsome profit, yet it was still a good deal for the buyer. My timing was incredible. I'd rather be lucky than good.
As long as Cirrus has a waiting list for 7 figure airplanes, there will be 400k RV-10's with better performance. That's not the fault of Van's or the builders, it's just that there are a lot of wealthy people out there that want what they want.
IMO, the people who do real damage to EAB are the people who sell pipe dreams like the cornfield mower.
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You are missing my point. If you put more weight on the builder, that's fine but then the builder's assist program is a negative just like a fancy paint job. The builder isn't really "building".
I don't disagree with you about weighting the builder more, and I was especially disappointed that the examples you cite only got an honorable mention. Those projects were works of art on many levels.
You may want to look up the "Slate Truck"... https://www.motortrend.com/news/2027-slate-auto-truck-pricing-delivery-announcements
I'm familiar. I use a truck. I pull a trailer sometimes 1000 miles.
Got it...thanks for the reply. As it stands now, I am in the "lost the mothership" scenario with a 2022 Sonex B model kit.
Ok, 2015-2019 is, umm, OK, your experience is a tad bit “young”. I am sure you know a lot from your experience looking at airplanes during that time period and building your plane since 2019. However, JJackh10 is referring to a time a little bit prior to that.
I don’t expect you will take this statement well, but; your experience is similar to a follower of the stock market who only started investing in it in 2019 and starts giving advice about how to best invest in the market to others who have been investing in the markets for decades before you started. It is human nature to believe one’s own experiences are the most relevant. I am human also, so maybe my experience is not the most relevant to you. I do expect it is relevant to many others who have been where I have though.
So, way back in 2003 my experience involved building an airplane that after it was completed I sold for about $3000 less than it cost me to build. In 2005 I drove to Syracuse, NY to buy a started RV9A kit from a person who had built tail feathers, started on the wings, and had the complete slow build fuselage unboxed. Those kits (empennage, wings, fuselage) cost approximately $25-26K from Vans in those days. I bought it all (plus his 2 years worth of completed work) for $17K.
I didn’t expect to get my money back from my sale. I for sure didn’t expect to make a profit. The gentleman who sold me his partially built RV9A kit knew the same also. It was this way pretty much for any experimental kit airplane. Van’s kits were better than others but still, the results of selling Van’s kits were the same as other kit manufacturers’ projects. It is only in the past handful of years (since COVID) that we are now seeing people expecting to not only get their costs back but also expecting to make a profit on their unfinished kit.
Unfortunately I can't say I am surprised by this news. I was always intrigued by the Sonex product line, and had always thought about a Xenos for some light soaring use.
The big issue I see is the changing demographics of aviation as a whole. I fly a RV-7a but I am a rarity at my airport, the rest being either club owned Cessnas or really rich folks with pretty new SR22's. There is a club operating a few LSA's as well. The majority of the actual airport traffic that I hear (and I would guess this to be 70-80% of traffic) is newer 172's being operated for flight instruction. When it comes to a "budget" aircraft like a Sonex or some other experimental, I have never seen or heard of one at my airport HARD STOP. From what I hear on the radio it is almost all young voices from the career track instructors. That tells me that they aren't flying for fun and they aren't building or buying a cheap experimentals. And they are the next generation of pilots.
The pitch for Sonex was one that matched the ethos of the homebuilding world from a different era. I strongly agree with others that the recreational aircraft market is a fickle one, being subject to the whims of whatever type of flying is fashionable at that time and the availability of discretionary income. Even if they made "sense" for the average fun flier, that isn't what they "wanted" or were watching in the latest social media posts.
The big issue I see is the changing demographics of aviation as a whole. I fly a RV-7a but I am a rarity at my airport, the rest being either club owned Cessnas or really rich folks with pretty new SR22's. There is a club operating a few LSA's as well. The majority of the actual airport traffic that I hear (and I would guess this to be 70-80% of traffic) is newer 172's being operated for flight instruction. When it comes to a "budget" aircraft like a Sonex or some other experimental, I have never seen or heard of one at my airport HARD STOP. From what I hear on the radio it is almost all young voices from the career track instructors. That tells me that they aren't flying for fun and they aren't building or buying a cheap experimentals. And they are the next generation of pilots.
The pitch for Sonex was one that matched the ethos of the homebuilding world from a different era. I strongly agree with others that the recreational aircraft market is a fickle one, being subject to the whims of whatever type of flying is fashionable at that time and the availability of discretionary income. Even if they made "sense" for the average fun flier, that isn't what they "wanted" or were watching in the latest social media posts.
What Dan said. What do we know about his business decisions? Just maybe there were roll-the-dice gambles that didn’t pay off. The strong survive.
N10KE
Well Known Member
Why the apparent disdain for airline pilots? I’d wager that a majority of RV builders are or were airline pilots. It’s a great career that offers good wages and enough free time to do a marathon build.
Sorry, it’s not like RVG didn’t hand pick these people nor was he truly on the sidelines ignorant to what was happening.
Fearless
Well Known Member
Well all I lost was the reservation cost to get in line on the high wing. Reservation number 105 on $39,000 kit equals $4,095,000. I was waiting for the nose gear prototype to come out. Similar performance to my 9A for around $100,000 to $120,000 build cost. I imagine there were reservation holders after me.
When I first started thinking about EAB I considered a Sonex but thought the RV9A was a better option for not much more money at the time. I bought pre started kits and a used Lycoming core to rebuild. I've since replaced the engine with a new Superior which cost over half what I had in the plane.
A couple of years back I was looking at building a Sling TSI but after the tariff increases, a Midwest panel and a Rotax 916 I figured it would be a $300,000 to $350,000 airplane which I don't have.
I hope someone with the dollars can bring the High Wing back to market and make committed kit builders whole again. I still want one.
The RV15 is cost prohibited to me and not my mission.
For now I'll just keep flying my 9A.
When I first started thinking about EAB I considered a Sonex but thought the RV9A was a better option for not much more money at the time. I bought pre started kits and a used Lycoming core to rebuild. I've since replaced the engine with a new Superior which cost over half what I had in the plane.
A couple of years back I was looking at building a Sling TSI but after the tariff increases, a Midwest panel and a Rotax 916 I figured it would be a $300,000 to $350,000 airplane which I don't have.
I hope someone with the dollars can bring the High Wing back to market and make committed kit builders whole again. I still want one.
The RV15 is cost prohibited to me and not my mission.
For now I'll just keep flying my 9A.
csmith3605
I'm New Here
Yep, Van's aircraft sells Wiring Kits for the RV-6/7/9 and RV-10 but not the RV-12iS Why? WH00133-1 is only sold as a avionics kit....
Giving Sonex the benefit of the doubt, it's not all that unusual for the owners of small businesses, who have put everything they have into a venture, to be in a state of denial and to fail to read the handwriting on the wall when their business is struggling to keep the doors open. The sunk cost fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost) comes into play, and the owner will do whatever the next step is to maintain operations, until no further steps are available.
I have no disdain for airline pilots at all….i just didn’t want to be one.
Well, Krea, there is the old joke a buddy told me just the other day....
Pilot's union rep says "We've negotiated a new contract that says you will only work on Tuesdays."
Senior captain in the audience raises his hand and asks "Which Tuesday?"
(I keed, I keed!)
Back 20 years ago when I was researching what plane to build I thought at first the Vans lineup was out of my reach . After a little research on what’s actually included with the kits Vans Lineup had the best Value … I could build this plane without having a hardware & material order every time I turned around .
About the time I started my 8 a friend started his Zenith 701? . Comparing his kit to mine was like comparing an Apple to a raisin. He put a Jabaru in it …… I put an Angle Valve 360 … All said and done we both ended up with about the same invested .
The 8 flew great , flew to Osh , Sun & Fun , Hudson Corridor, all over the Grand Canyon… 10 years of travel and 600 hours . Cost me less than 80k to build , sold it for 180k .
Zenith got about 45 miles from the airport, lots of issues…sold for 30% less than the sum of parts .
It’s not the entry cost to me it’s the “ Value “ and what its value will be when it time to sell .
The Sonex always looked like a cheap plane that no one used for travel … no Sonex Formation groups … seamed like a Tinker Toy airplane at best ( sorry ) The High Wing ??? No beauty queen either . Add this to a miss managed recently acquired business……Maybe Monet saw the writing on the wall .
You have to evolve as a business…. Sit back and do business as usual and you’ll become extinct.
About the time I started my 8 a friend started his Zenith 701? . Comparing his kit to mine was like comparing an Apple to a raisin. He put a Jabaru in it …… I put an Angle Valve 360 … All said and done we both ended up with about the same invested .
The 8 flew great , flew to Osh , Sun & Fun , Hudson Corridor, all over the Grand Canyon… 10 years of travel and 600 hours . Cost me less than 80k to build , sold it for 180k .
Zenith got about 45 miles from the airport, lots of issues…sold for 30% less than the sum of parts .
It’s not the entry cost to me it’s the “ Value “ and what its value will be when it time to sell .
The Sonex always looked like a cheap plane that no one used for travel … no Sonex Formation groups … seamed like a Tinker Toy airplane at best ( sorry ) The High Wing ??? No beauty queen either . Add this to a miss managed recently acquired business……Maybe Monet saw the writing on the wall .
You have to evolve as a business…. Sit back and do business as usual and you’ll become extinct.
deek
Well Known Member
I too am greatly saddened by the sudden closure of Sonnex. Next month I will have been enjoying experimental aviation for 49 years, and after starting and completing 5 homebuilts I feel qualified to comment...and yes, one was an RV-4 built with a partner immediately after completing my first LongEZ in 1983. At that time, each homebuilt designer selected what they felt was the finest newly completed example of their designs to be honored as a Wright Brothers Award winner at the Dayton Ohio International Airshow. I was selected by none other than Mike Melvill and Burt Rutan to attend in 1984, and it was there I first met Alan Tolle with his new RV-4 , the Vans winner that year.
Alan gave me a ride in the RV, and I reciprocated a ride in the EZ and was impressed how similarly they flew despite the obvious configuration and construction differences. We were both from SoCal, so when I returned home I convinced my dear friend Glenn (RIP) to join forces to build a RV-4 with the promise of Alan's assistance. We used a Phlogiston spar, but other than that we built it from plans, including scratch building the cowling and fiberglas fairings since I had plenty of composite experience. My first Long EZ cost $28,300, including a brand new, in the crate O-235-L2C (bought from Beech for $4,950 as a result of them ceasing Skipper production). It was IFR capable with Collins avionics, and self painted 4-color Imron paint. The RV-4 cost less than the EZ to build as it had a nearly run-out O-320, a wood prop and single color acrylic enamel paint.
That was the beginning a of a long string of homebuilts: 2 more EZ's (one was the proof of concept fuselage lofting for the Berkut), a PJ-260 bipe that we did not finish but was eventually completed in Florida with a Continental 225 radial, and assisted with or co-built a Christen Eagle, Glasair, and a VK-30. So, one metal, two tube and rag, and a bunch of glass and resin speedsters...plans built and kits.
Very early on I considered kit building as a sort of faux homebuilding, with the "kit assembler" some kind of slightly less accomplished builder. But, as you all know, completing any aircraft, kit or plans, plastic or aluminum, is a huge accomplishment and tells me a lot about the character of the builder - it isn't easy to build an airplane no matter how you approach it. The higher truth is every homebuilt (Vans, Sonnex, Breezy, EZ, Carbon Cub, ...) promotes aviation, and we should be doing everything we can to ensure there are more aviators and more GA aircraft whether they are MOSAIC, certified or homebuilts. I'm going to miss Sonnex, I logged a few hours in a Sonnerai that was wonderful.
Alan, wherever in the heavens you are now, thanks for instilling the drive to continue to create new airplanes, as I very likely would have been one and done without your inspiration and help with the RV-4. Let's hope someone picks up the pieces at Sonnex, and helps the unfortunate builders caught in the middle complete their dreams. I think my building days are over, but am captivated in bringing my old V-tail back to life with what I learned as a builder, and the standards those who have gone before me developed. And Mike Melvill, the entire homebuilding community owes you a world of gratitude - Godspeed.
Alan gave me a ride in the RV, and I reciprocated a ride in the EZ and was impressed how similarly they flew despite the obvious configuration and construction differences. We were both from SoCal, so when I returned home I convinced my dear friend Glenn (RIP) to join forces to build a RV-4 with the promise of Alan's assistance. We used a Phlogiston spar, but other than that we built it from plans, including scratch building the cowling and fiberglas fairings since I had plenty of composite experience. My first Long EZ cost $28,300, including a brand new, in the crate O-235-L2C (bought from Beech for $4,950 as a result of them ceasing Skipper production). It was IFR capable with Collins avionics, and self painted 4-color Imron paint. The RV-4 cost less than the EZ to build as it had a nearly run-out O-320, a wood prop and single color acrylic enamel paint.
That was the beginning a of a long string of homebuilts: 2 more EZ's (one was the proof of concept fuselage lofting for the Berkut), a PJ-260 bipe that we did not finish but was eventually completed in Florida with a Continental 225 radial, and assisted with or co-built a Christen Eagle, Glasair, and a VK-30. So, one metal, two tube and rag, and a bunch of glass and resin speedsters...plans built and kits.
Very early on I considered kit building as a sort of faux homebuilding, with the "kit assembler" some kind of slightly less accomplished builder. But, as you all know, completing any aircraft, kit or plans, plastic or aluminum, is a huge accomplishment and tells me a lot about the character of the builder - it isn't easy to build an airplane no matter how you approach it. The higher truth is every homebuilt (Vans, Sonnex, Breezy, EZ, Carbon Cub, ...) promotes aviation, and we should be doing everything we can to ensure there are more aviators and more GA aircraft whether they are MOSAIC, certified or homebuilts. I'm going to miss Sonnex, I logged a few hours in a Sonnerai that was wonderful.
Alan, wherever in the heavens you are now, thanks for instilling the drive to continue to create new airplanes, as I very likely would have been one and done without your inspiration and help with the RV-4. Let's hope someone picks up the pieces at Sonnex, and helps the unfortunate builders caught in the middle complete their dreams. I think my building days are over, but am captivated in bringing my old V-tail back to life with what I learned as a builder, and the standards those who have gone before me developed. And Mike Melvill, the entire homebuilding community owes you a world of gratitude - Godspeed.
N10KE
Well Known Member
Good one Dan! I definitely resemble(d) that remark.
Maybe nobody wants to admit that they're building an airplane that's going to be that ugly when it's finished?
Functional, yeah, but wow the 7xx and 8xx series are not going to win any beauty contests...
N10KE
Well Known Member
Sorry, it’s hard to read tone in a text. There were a lot of careers that I had neither the skills nor the interest in doing, but I generally don’t make a point of listing what they are.
simpsontl48
Active Member
Let's face it. The ridiculous price of engines is going to hurt all the kit companies...including Vans. I believe Vans business will suffer greatly because this back end cost will stifle the front end buy in. Smart potential builders will price the whole thing out before they buy the first kit and decide they just can not afford to even start one. Sad.
ScottSchmidt
Well Known Member
Sorry to see Sonex closed. Will miss the yellow flags and planes at their booth in Oshkosh. I loved their product. I would not be surprised to see them back someday.
I don't believe general aviation is dying. It is getting more expensive/dollar earned, but if you really want to be in it, you will be, you'll find a way.
Our little airport has never been busier here in Salt Lake.
Aviation is at a huge inflection point right now and is exciting. I want my personal drone to fly to work or the hangar. Where is my kit drone?
Recently attended an aerospace conference here in Utah and flying taxis are expected to be all over Salt Lake for the Winter Olympics in 2034 (we'll see). I guess the point is there is lots of money pouring into these businesses. It is not the aviation we grew up with but is still aviation.
Sorry Sonex. Hope you can take a breath, rest and find the next path forward. Maybe start making affordable Sonex I0-391's
I don't believe general aviation is dying. It is getting more expensive/dollar earned, but if you really want to be in it, you will be, you'll find a way.
Our little airport has never been busier here in Salt Lake.
Aviation is at a huge inflection point right now and is exciting. I want my personal drone to fly to work or the hangar. Where is my kit drone?
Recently attended an aerospace conference here in Utah and flying taxis are expected to be all over Salt Lake for the Winter Olympics in 2034 (we'll see). I guess the point is there is lots of money pouring into these businesses. It is not the aviation we grew up with but is still aviation.
Sorry Sonex. Hope you can take a breath, rest and find the next path forward. Maybe start making affordable Sonex I0-391's
Probably my fault, as a result of my experience in the 80’s….in college from ground school to flight training…the moment an instructor or professor realized you weren’t on a career path…more interested in aerobatics, than ILS approaches…they were done.
On a differing path, as an engineer and manufacturing facility owner, I wasn’t part of the Team Airline….
No disdain I assure you, just different career choice. Sorry for any tone, otherwise….was trying to point out that many just fly for fun and the love it.
My humble apologies, if my comment came across as disparaging. Not my intent in the least.
I resemble that remark
I’d like to consider myself a prudent aircraft owner. I had a RV9A that I sold in 2023 for a small profit and purchased a 2002 Glasair Glastar for 85k. Needed more cabin room for travel w our dog. I still have it, an amazing aircraft for less than the -15 kits alone cost. Glastar are still available on the used markets for relatively little money. I just purchased a second hand RV10 kit - all 4 sub-assemblies, IO-540 260hp lycoming engine in the crate (new IRAN at 450hrs) and a CS prop for 140k. Certainly not a small sum of money, but I consider a fair price w tool kit and numerous upgrades included. My wife wants 4 seats, I refuse to go certified. A 20 year old C-182 is $250k. I looked for flying RV10 bargains, and they don’t exist. Even a no logbook abandoned RV10 locally sold for 170k+ at auction. I bid on it up to 85k. I think the RV10 market will stay strong, and I hope to finish mine for $250…. Figure I’ve got 5 years to pick up other pieces/parts needed to complete the build. Plus I’m recently retired and need a project.
And like Wirejock, my daily driver is a Suzuki Sidekick w 310k miles. Handled our east coast snow this year like a goat. I love it, esp now that diesel is $5.50 a gallon (Ram3500 pickup is other vehicle).
Anyway sad to see sonex collapse. A guy flew his into our local field the other day, said he wanted to sell it. Hoped he could get 29k for it. Wonder what this news will do to the used Sonex market.
And like Wirejock, my daily driver is a Suzuki Sidekick w 310k miles. Handled our east coast snow this year like a goat. I love it, esp now that diesel is $5.50 a gallon (Ram3500 pickup is other vehicle).
Anyway sad to see sonex collapse. A guy flew his into our local field the other day, said he wanted to sell it. Hoped he could get 29k for it. Wonder what this news will do to the used Sonex market.
I don't think there is any question about their business plans these days. It’s easy to jack up the prices instead of refining efficiency's, looking for new clients and reducing costs. [ed. Last sentence, removed rules violation regarding to governments and policies. dr]
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