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Vertical Power VP-200
- Thread starter Rattler 1
- Start date
Looking for parts?
Michael Wellenzohn
Well Known Member
I have one system however the DU RAM chips are broken that’s why I had to take it out. Are you looking for a CU?
Mike
I just purchased a used unit. Not sure what I’m getting until I receive it. Do you know where the software is stored? In the PU or CU?
What happened Is the battery was installed backwards. Now it kind of works but has issues periodically. I know Im receiving the red box along with the switch box. Unsure if the large display is with it.
What happened Is the battery was installed backwards. Now it kind of works but has issues periodically. I know Im receiving the red box along with the switch box. Unsure if the large display is with it.
Michael Wellenzohn
Well Known Member
May recommendation is not to install it. You will not be able to restore the RAM chip software and this series of Chips had defects and you cannot readout the software. All information about the VP-200 has been destroyed and not support exists anymore. Items a great system and I loved flying with it but if it fails and you are grounded somewhere it’s a real issue. I replaced it with the advanced flight system ACM.
Auburntsts
Well Known Member
Concur with Michael--ditch the 200. I was an early 200 adopter and also have moved on. It's an orphaned system. If you want a VP product, I suggest a VP-X or just go with a traditional electrical architecture (my preference).
Michael Wellenzohn
Well Known Member
I’m not a computer engineer but what I understood was that you need the actual machine code or assembly / C++ code which is burned on the ROM chips. And then you’d need to do the changes for the new RAM chips in the software to address the new RAM chips once if the old ones they failed. Are you sure you have this software?
I recall an excel came on the usb stick and the manuals.
I recall an excel came on the usb stick and the manuals.
" battery was installed backwards. Now it kind of works but has issues periodically."
This is reason alone to not use it. The system was designed with lots of protections, but not attaching it to the battery backwards. It has not been supported for 10 years and I don't recommend new installations. The VP-X is fully supported and will be for the future.
This is reason alone to not use it. The system was designed with lots of protections, but not attaching it to the battery backwards. It has not been supported for 10 years and I don't recommend new installations. The VP-X is fully supported and will be for the future.
I don't know why I would choose the VP-X to replace the VP-200 when the company completely abandoned the older version. Won't even answer a question or provide repair options. If this doesn't work, l will probably go to the true and tried solution. Separate circuit breakers and switches.
I don't know but I'm sure it has happened in the past. I get it is my fault, just wish it could be repaired without purchasing a whole new system.
When Astronics acquired Vertical Power in 2014, they end-of-life (EOL) the older products and kept the VP-X. Every tech company - Garmin, Apple, Tesla - has an EOL strategy for their products. It simply becomes unfeasible to support older products.
The problem with "tried and true" is that while parts might be available, they are much less reliable and repair and overhaul costs are high. For example, it costs more to overhaul an old vacuum attitude indicator than to buy a new EFIS (like a G5). Add in an unreliable vacuum pump and repair costs go even higher.
But you are right, there is always a trade to be made. There will always be a small segment of the homebuilt population that is most comfortable with circuit breakers, relay boards, magnetos, and steam gauges.
Just so you know, that lesson just given to you above was by the man who designed, built, started the company, and sold that VP200 you have. If he has advice to offer about that product, may I give my own advice? Listen to Marc’s advice!
Based on all your questions and comments, I recommend you offer up your components to someone looking for used parts. Purchase a new VP-X that is supported and has current installation manuals, etc. I don't see installing a "maybe working" VP-200 that is not currently supported as a path for success.
But to answer your question directly, the USB connects to the display unit (DU) and the configuration is synced across the various hardware components including the CU. The master config is stored in the DU, and the system will push out the configuration to the CU at startup if it is not the correct one.
flyvans.com
Well Known Member
We have a VP200 in our 7A, still operating and flying 
Early adopters, as the others...
And several used parts we were able to source, including defunct display units.
The system was way ahead of its time, awesome concept and user interface.
But have to agree with all posters, at most keep an existing installation running, definitely don't do a fresh install in any airplane!
Unfortunately, the Display Units appear to be all dying in the field, sooner or later, due to the EEPROM chip issue mentioned by Michael...
Our DU has also "acted up" on maybe 3 opportunities in 700ish hours, but that was always on startup and we were able to recover / "push settings" / reboot etc... every time, touch wood.
As it's practically always the Display Unit failing, you will find spare control units and switch panels, but literally no working display units (or at astronomic prices) :-(
I spent significant time in trying to reverse engineer the software and protocols and was looking into the feasibility of rebuilding/modding a display unit with an alternative processor. And learnt a lot along the way... But got nothing working (yet). Captured packet streams DU-CU communication of full flights, figured out pinouts, decompiled java packages and libraries etc... But interest has waned a bit, the more i learned how few units were ever out there (with more and more being decommissioned)
I just hope ours doesn't die tomorrow as I do not have anything working independently, yet. The only option would be rewiring to VPX with major consequences.
The real pity is that during the sale to Astronics, as Marc mentioned, stuff was actively destroyed / EOL'd without sharing any of it or protecting it for the long run, so it cannot be self-supported or open-sourced or any other similar arrangement... Totally orphaned product, real disappointment.
Quite a bit of "platform" stuff can no longer be successfully reverse engineered, or only with massive efforts, since the build toolchain is no longer available.
For instance, the software package only contains the custom software, but not the basic configuration or contents of the platform (which would have to be available for the same software to run unchanged). Also, while the core software is basically embedded java, it does link to certain compiled JNI (java native interface) libraries that were built/compiled specifically for that hardware and without which you never end up e.g. with the exact same communication protocol or memory access. I even attempted decompiling of those c libraries... All I found is that they don't seem to be particularly complex and consist of more or less a "bridging" role from hardware to java and vice versa, without too much business logic. For a professional software developer it would maybe be a piece of cake, but for me as a hobby tinkerer that codes every once in a while, quite a challenge.
The Display Unit communicates with the control unit and switch panel via RS422 and a custom binary protocol, basically "shared memory" pushing changed bytes of memory ranges from the display unit to control unit and switch panel and vice versa (from where the control unit and switchpanel firmwares then derive their actions & reports back switch settings etc...)
Another, completely separate thing I did was build a minimal "get home" backup electrical system with a few switches that can be mated to the VP200 CU connectors. But that is obviously a last resort hack, should the unit die in the field...
The longer we "survive", the more we're saving for an eventual panel rebuild, including a replacement for the VP200...
Long story short, if there is an adventureous (java) developer out there, please say hi ;-)
And to the original poster, VP200 at this stage is highly risky, unfortunately.
Early adopters, as the others...And several used parts we were able to source, including defunct display units.
The system was way ahead of its time, awesome concept and user interface.
But have to agree with all posters, at most keep an existing installation running, definitely don't do a fresh install in any airplane!
Unfortunately, the Display Units appear to be all dying in the field, sooner or later, due to the EEPROM chip issue mentioned by Michael...
Our DU has also "acted up" on maybe 3 opportunities in 700ish hours, but that was always on startup and we were able to recover / "push settings" / reboot etc... every time, touch wood.
As it's practically always the Display Unit failing, you will find spare control units and switch panels, but literally no working display units (or at astronomic prices) :-(
I spent significant time in trying to reverse engineer the software and protocols and was looking into the feasibility of rebuilding/modding a display unit with an alternative processor. And learnt a lot along the way... But got nothing working (yet). Captured packet streams DU-CU communication of full flights, figured out pinouts, decompiled java packages and libraries etc... But interest has waned a bit, the more i learned how few units were ever out there (with more and more being decommissioned)
I just hope ours doesn't die tomorrow as I do not have anything working independently, yet. The only option would be rewiring to VPX with major consequences.
The real pity is that during the sale to Astronics, as Marc mentioned, stuff was actively destroyed / EOL'd without sharing any of it or protecting it for the long run, so it cannot be self-supported or open-sourced or any other similar arrangement... Totally orphaned product, real disappointment.
Quite a bit of "platform" stuff can no longer be successfully reverse engineered, or only with massive efforts, since the build toolchain is no longer available.
For instance, the software package only contains the custom software, but not the basic configuration or contents of the platform (which would have to be available for the same software to run unchanged). Also, while the core software is basically embedded java, it does link to certain compiled JNI (java native interface) libraries that were built/compiled specifically for that hardware and without which you never end up e.g. with the exact same communication protocol or memory access. I even attempted decompiling of those c libraries... All I found is that they don't seem to be particularly complex and consist of more or less a "bridging" role from hardware to java and vice versa, without too much business logic. For a professional software developer it would maybe be a piece of cake, but for me as a hobby tinkerer that codes every once in a while, quite a challenge.
The Display Unit communicates with the control unit and switch panel via RS422 and a custom binary protocol, basically "shared memory" pushing changed bytes of memory ranges from the display unit to control unit and switch panel and vice versa (from where the control unit and switchpanel firmwares then derive their actions & reports back switch settings etc...)
Another, completely separate thing I did was build a minimal "get home" backup electrical system with a few switches that can be mated to the VP200 CU connectors. But that is obviously a last resort hack, should the unit die in the field...
The longer we "survive", the more we're saving for an eventual panel rebuild, including a replacement for the VP200...
Long story short, if there is an adventureous (java) developer out there, please say hi ;-)
And to the original poster, VP200 at this stage is highly risky, unfortunately.
THnk you.We have a VP200 in our 7A, still operating and flying
And several used parts we were able to source, including defunct display units.
The system was way ahead of its time, awesome concept and user interface.
But have to agree with all posters, at most keep an existing installation running, definitely don't do a fresh install in any airplane!
Unfortunately, the Display Units appear to be all dying in the field, sooner or later, due to the EEPROM chip issue mentioned by Michael...
Our DU has also "acted up" on maybe 3 opportunities in 700ish hours, but that was always on startup and we were able to recover / "push settings" / reboot etc... every time, touch wood.
As it's practically always the Display Unit failing, you will find spare control units and switch panels, but literally no working display units (or at astronomic prices) :-(
I spent significant time in trying to reverse engineer the software and protocols and was looking into the feasibility of rebuilding/modding a display unit with an alternative processor. And learnt a lot along the way... But got nothing working (yet). Captured packet streams DU-CU communication of full flights, figured out pinouts, decompiled java packages and libraries etc... But interest has waned a bit, the more i learned how few units were ever out there (with more and more being decommissioned)
I just hope ours doesn't die tomorrow as I do not have anything working independently, yet. The only option would be rewiring to VPX with major consequences.
The real pity is that during the sale to Astronics, as Marc mentioned, stuff was actively destroyed / EOL'd without sharing any of it or protecting it for the long run, so it cannot be self-supported or open-sourced or any other similar arrangement... Totally orphaned product, real disappointment.
Quite a bit of "platform" stuff can no longer be successfully reverse engineered, or only with massive efforts, since the build toolchain is no longer available.
For instance, the software package only contains the custom software, but not the basic configuration or contents of the platform (which would have to be available for the same software to run unchanged). Also, while the core software is basically embedded java, it does link to certain compiled JNI (java native interface) libraries that were built/compiled specifically for that hardware and without which you never end up e.g. with the exact same communication protocol or memory access. I even attempted decompiling of those c libraries... All I found is that they don't seem to be particularly complex and consist of more or less a "bridging" role from hardware to java and vice versa, without too much business logic. For a professional software developer it would maybe be a piece of cake, but for me as a hobby tinkerer that codes every once in a while, quite a challenge.
The Display Unit communicates with the control unit and switch panel via RS422 and a custom binary protocol, basically "shared memory" pushing changed bytes of memory ranges from the display unit to control unit and switch panel and vice versa (from where the control unit and switchpanel firmwares then derive their actions & reports back switch settings etc...)
Another, completely separate thing I did was build a minimal "get home" backup electrical system with a few switches that can be mated to the VP200 CU connectors. But that is obviously a last resort hack, should the unit die in the field...
The longer we "survive", the more we're saving for an eventual panel rebuild, including a replacement for the VP200...
Long story short, if there is an adventureous (java) developer out there, please say hi ;-)
And to the original poster, VP200 at this stage is highly risky, unfortunately.
So, it's been at least 15 years since the VP200 was introduced? How long does one support this dated technology? Yes, I know Garmin has gone longer but with certified units that cost 5 times more they can push this. I really like my "new" VPX system.
Yes, i'm still looking for a CU. The red box.
Do you have a CU?
Michael Wellenzohn
Well Known Member
Yes I do
What are you asking for it?
Will you sell it and how much?
Still looking for a CU
