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When do you hang it up?

Webb

Well Known Member
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Funny the things you think about when you are reflecting on things in life. In this case, I was thinking about pop giving up flying at 55 due to hearing issues. He was flying and was unable to understand Atlanta Center and decided to head back home and give it up.

At 68, I'm still going strong but was thinking where/when do you draw the line?
 
At 74, I'm not setting an arbitrary date. I know it's not that far away but I'll wait for objective indications that I'm no longer a safe pilot. Haven't seen any yet.
I absolutely agree about not setting a arbitrary date. Since I'm retired and don't have the revenue string I used to have, cost may make that decision for me. I just payed my monthly airport bill and it was well over 1K for just rent and fuel. Add in all the other cost to own a plane and over the course of a year, it comes to a fairly tidy sum.

Two of my good friends that owned Bonanzas gave it up. One due to aging (78) and the other couldn't get insurance once he hit 80.

I'm leaning to the opinion that cost and aging will be my triggers.
 
I'm leaning to the opinion that cost and aging will be my triggers.
Yes. Barring a medical event, I'm guessing that at some point in the next (X) years, cost and effort will exceed my level of interest, but I'm not there yet. Cost is currently of less concern, especially since (unlike my wife and her equestrian endeavors) I'll eventually be able to recover a reasonably good chunk of my aviation investment when I do decide to cash out.
 
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The older I get the harder it becomes to stay proficient with my tailwheel landings. I think if you want to continue flying when you get into your golden years is to have a safety pilot in case the unthinkable happens and you become incapacitated or can’t function as PIC.
 
Our friend Kay comes out to 52F and flies his 8A just about every day. A loop, some rolls and a split S. Then he lands and debriefs us as to how he was a couple degrees off on this or that, and that he’ll do better tomorrow.

He’s 84.

I think some of his secret is that he does it most days, and the physical and mental commitment required helps keep his body and mind lubricated.

He sets the bar high locally for our group, and I hope to mirror it.

v/r,dr
 
The older I get the harder it becomes to stay proficient with my tailwheel landings. I think if you want to continue flying when you get into your golden years is to have a safety pilot in case the unthinkable happens and you become incapacitated or can’t function as PIC.
Webb, my friend. you just spent alot of time, and money building the plane you want. Now take some time to ENJOY it
 
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I will be 74 in a couple of weeks and will be starting my tail kit in December for my Sonex Highwing project. I have the first production Highwing quickbuild slot.
My major concern at this point in my life is not about my ability to fly (VFR only going forward in the new plane), but getting in and out of the plane. It was starting to get a little difficult to egress the RV8 after a long flight, so I chose to sell it and build a plane that is easy to get in and out of.
That is what I consider a major factor as we age. The popularity of the RV15 is probably partially due to the relative ease of entry although it's a bit of a climb up into. I have a lightweight plastic step stool that I use to help climb in and out of my pickup bed. That could be used with a 15 if you tie a piece of parachute cord to it and pull it up after entry and stow in baggage behind you. The Highwing door is closer to the ground and doesn't require a step stool.
I will self ground myself when I decide that the time has come, hopefully 20 years from now.
 
Same age here @Webb, but not thinking too much about it now. As wifey tells me, this is only a number.
There are a couple of pretty experienced (ok, old...) pilots around here, some 80+, still going strong. I guess that as long as I can get in and out of my steed without either a shoehorn or a corkscrew, I'll keep boring holes in the blue yonder.
But yes, conscious the end, whichever whenever, is closing in fast, I still do most of it and still rack up the hours, taking it all in. Man, I love flying, and that will be hard... ok, can we now talk aerodynamics, engine cooling, or primer now?
 
Wow! I hope I can get proficient enough to reach your time. I'm 66. My problem is all my flying was in BFE and tower ops are like a foreign language on 78 speed. I keep making them mad. I get it. I understand. I know what to say. It just comes out upside down and backwards. Excuse me, I have to go back to listening to ATC Live.
Oh bother.
 
The older I get the harder it becomes to stay proficient with my tailwheel landings. I think if you want to continue flying when you get into your golden years is to have a safety pilot in case the unthinkable happens and you become incapacitated or can’t function as PIC.
My eagle eyes and cat like reflexes were slipping as well. So I sold my RV4 and citabrias and bought a RV9A. Lands slower than a 172 and the little wheel is on front so a little more forgiving. Im sure Ive added another decade to take me into my late 70s. But Transport Canada has different ideas and they will be my limiting factor.
 
Did you all watch the World Series game last night? Why are you ruining my day?
(Was not cheering for a winner, but If you like baseball, it was almost as much fun as flying)
 
I think some of his secret is that he does it most days, and the physical and mental commitment required helps keep his body and mind lubricated.
Exactly -- getting up and flying as often and regularly as you can is truly "key" regardless of your physical age. At 67, I feel better about my flying than when I was in my 20's. However, condition inspections take a little longer now. My younger sister tells me after flying commercially that she "really likes to see some silver hair on the captain's head" -- and, I agree! (y):cool:(y)
 
I sold my RV4 to a chap that is 92 and he is having a blast with it. He has no problems getting in or out, he is one of the fortunate ones.
 
Did you all watch the World Series game last night? Why are you ruining my day?
(Was not cheering for a winner, but If you like baseball, it was almost as much fun as flying)
It was a great way to finish a series. And remember, only you can let someone steal your joy........

Shoot, if I hung it up now and sold everything aviation related, I would have enough to buy a nice luxury vehicle, have a large wad of cash and never have to touch my retirement account, and a grand a month to head out and see the country and go some places I have on the bucket list. Since I'm retired, I'm not in a hurry and can stop at the roadside fruit stands, get ice cream in a small town creamery, tour wineries, and stick my toes in the surf.

It ain't about just laying down and dying. It's about making a wise decision and still enjoying what's left in life.
 
Since I'm retired, I'm not in a hurry
exactly the opposite for me... now finally realized that every year, month, hours, millisecond, is a precious as whatever I could wish for, but I HAVE THAT TIME NOW, AND ONLY NOW
Let's all of us make the best time outta what's left for each of us, and as my dearest motto states:
Life's short... enjoy 😉
 
I don't think there's a single answer for everyone. It varies. But what I do know is that the time will come for all of us. And that, however long we end up having, each time the sun sets, one more day is in the past and one less day is in the future. So enjoy it now and soak up every minute. :)

 
Our friend Kay comes out to 52F and flies his 8A just about every day. A loop, some rolls and a split S. Then he lands and debriefs us as to how he was a couple degrees off on this or that, and that he’ll do better tomorrow.

He’s 84.

I think some of his secret is that he does it most days, and the physical and mental commitment required helps keep his body and mind lubricated.

He sets the bar high locally for our group, and I hope to mirror it.

v/r,dr
Doug, you beat me to it. Kay is phenomenal. Tony and I always say when we grow up, we want to be like Kay. We’re in our 60s.
 
My wife and I celebrated my 86th a couple of weeks ago by going skydiving! No longer own my own airplane, but fly 3-4 times a week in my buddies RV7s and 10, and the Cherokee 235 I take care of for a friend. Currently spending a lot of time under the panel doing new Garmin upgrades in the Cherokee. As an instructor, I get a good bit of time as safety pilot in several airplanes, including a Baron --. As an A&P, I get to help the guys with their condition inspections. Actually got about an hour of dual in a new Sirius light sport the other day. My instructor was younger!:)
At this point, as long as I can get in and out of the plane, I will keep flying and learning!
 
Wow! I hope I can get proficient enough to reach your time. I'm 66. My problem is all my flying was in BFE and tower ops are like a foreign language on 78 speed. I keep making them mad. I get it. I understand. I know what to say. It just comes out upside down and backwards. Excuse me, I have to go back to listening to ATC Live.
Oh bother.
Don’t worry about making FNL controllers mad. They’re inexperienced and have expectations based on tribal knowledge and agreements with all the training aircraft from Aims and Leading Edge. Problem is that not ALL planes operating at that field are from a flight school.

I get scolded at least 50% of the time I come and go from FNL. I have over 17,000 hours and have successfully operated out of ALL the busiest airports in central and North America without being scolded. They’re bullies and I’ve told them so on more than one occasion. A DPE friend of mine in town to do a whole bunch of checkrides actually wrote a letter to the FSDO about these guys.

DO NOT take a scolding from the FNL people personally!
 
Wow! I hope I can get proficient enough to reach your time. I'm 66. My problem is all my flying was in BFE and tower ops are like a foreign language on 78 speed. I keep making them mad. I get it. I understand. I know what to say. It just comes out upside down and backwards. Excuse me, I have to go back to listening to ATC Live.
Oh bother.
Larry, I have the same issues. This is what helps me: I’ve found if I speak slower to ATC, they usually respond slower to me. I’ve given up trying to remember what ATC says- I always write it down, and then repeat back to them. Slow down and think before speaking. And as you said, listening to ATC helps. Each area has their quirks, but the general ATC language is the same.
 
Whenever this subject enters my mind, I think of a time when I flew into one of the Wichita airports on a trip to ND from Shreveport LA in my Bonanza. We had flown though a very windy dust storm and landed at night in very gusty conditions. I was exhausted and ready to get to the hotel, when up taxis one of those little Rotax powered LSAs like the Piper Sport. The winds were very gusty and I could not imagine landing one of these things in those conditions.

The pilot was a woman whose age well exceeded mine. The canopy pops open and she stands up. Her husband, sitting beside her in the right seat hands her two walker canes (I don't know what they are called), she then proceeds to climb out of the plane using them. I was astounded. She had one of those canvas caps on sporting many pins, including one as a member of the 99s. We didn't have a chance to talk but I wished I had gotten her name. To say I was impressed was a vast understatement.

We saw them the next morning, but again, we were all in a hurry to get out of town ahead of weather, so I am left with that indelible image of watching her get out of that plane with canes...that image completely reset my thinking about this subject.
 
Don’t worry about making FNL controllers mad. They’re inexperienced and have expectations based on tribal knowledge and agreements with all the training aircraft from Aims and Leading Edge. Problem is that not ALL planes operating at that field are from a flight school.

I get scolded at least 50% of the time I come and go from FNL. I have over 17,000 hours and have successfully operated out of ALL the busiest airports in central and North America without being scolded. They’re bullies and I’ve told them so on more than one occasion. A DPE friend of mine in town to do a whole bunch of checkrides actually wrote a letter to the FSDO about these guys.

DO NOT take a scolding from the FNL people personally!
Thanks for posting this. I've received poor service from their contract tower in the past. The worst was tower opening at 8am when I was cleared for the RNAV 33, after the FAF, in hard IMC, and giving me an instruction to circle to 15 to join the prevailing direction of traffic. Except there was absolutely no one flying into FNL as the field was IFR. I listened on the radio, and checked ADS-B and live ATC at the time and afterwards. Nobody into the field, +/- 30m at least. I don't know what they were thinking, but I went missed.
 
I’m like several others here and don’t get caught up in numbers, it’s more related to factors like.
1. How demanding is your aircraft to operate? SX 300 or Cessna 172?
2. What is your background? Private pilot or career professional?
3. How much time are you willing to train and fly to maintain or increase proficiency?
4. What type of environment do you expect to operate in? Mountain strips, challenging weather flying or just flat land?
5. Genetics Is HUGE, I’ve flown with people in their mid eighty’s that are far sharper than some in their sixtys.

If I had to pick one I’d recommend people move into an aircraft with a great low speed profile, I hate to see people WAY behind their light twin on a flight review.
 
Our friend Kay comes out to 52F and flies his 8A just about every day. A loop, some rolls and a split S. Then he lands and debriefs us as to how he was a couple degrees off on this or that, and that he’ll do better tomorrow.

He’s 84.

I think some of his secret is that he does it most days, and the physical and mental commitment required helps keep his body and mind lubricated.

He sets the bar high locally for our group, and I hope to mirror it.

v/r,dr
DR,
Flying IS the reason I stay fit.
Flying helps keep my mind active by learning new things.
Flying increases my friends which is also a contributing factor on healthy aging.
I believe when I hang up my wings, I will rot quickly.
Daddyman58
 
DR,
Flying IS the reason I stay fit.
Flying helps keep my mind active by learning new things.
Flying increases my friends which is also a contributing factor on healthy aging.
I believe when I hang up my wings, I will rot quickly.
Daddyman58
I'm afraid of the same things! I have nothing else....
 
This is a very GOOD discussion. I'm 68 and am in pretty good health and shape. I was an ICU RN for over 3 decades and have seen many people pass... some suddenly. Just yesterday I found out that my cousins 41 year old son in law got out of his car then dropped to the ground. People were close. Checked his pulse and nothing. After EMS arrived, the coded him and nothing so he's gone. I know a sudden and without warning kind of event can happen to anyone. It's what I worry about when I carry a passenger but most of the time I fly alone. I have a Dr appointment in a couple weeks and it's always the usual listen to my heart and lungs and see you in 6 months. This time I'm planning to request a couple things to ease my mind. A carotid ultra sound (a check for build up that could lead to a stroke), an EKG and cardiac echo to check heart function... cardiac output. If I get these two done and I'm good that will make me feel better.
When to hang up the keys is a tough decision indeed. I'd say get a good checkout by your doc and not just the standard look and listen. For me it will give me
some peace of mind.
 
There area lot of really good thoughts in this thread, and it is clear that many are thoughtful about it. We did a survey years ago about the age demographics of the E-AB world, and the median age of our population was in the mid to late 60’s….when I was young, 60 was ANCIENT, but that’s who we are now! I’ve been flying over fifty years, and know objectively that I can’t take the same number f sustained G’s that I could in my 20’s, I don’t hear quite as well, and (frankly) there are airplanes I flew when I was younger that I would not be excited to solo today - not because they weren’t; fun, but because I am not sure I can do them justice as their pilot anymore.

The real problem that we will all face is the “I’ll know when I should hang it up” idea…and yes, I say the same thing - I really do! But just like the insidious onset of Hypoxia, the person going through the degradation process is probably not the best one to judge their own decline. Some do, for sure. Just like I recently declined the offer of trying to land a T-6 from the back seat (I have about an hour total of T-6 time….), good pilots know their limitations. But…do we always? Like the metaphor of the slow-boiling frog, our decline can be so gradual that we might only know in retrospect - as we disentangle our taildraggers from the sagebrush off the edge of the runway - that we have been slowing down.

What to do about it? Develop some trusted friends and talk honestly about our abilities. Put the egos away. If someone says that your judgement about how much fuel to carry, or those crosswinds, or “how did you manage to get strapped in with no headset in the plane?”, you need to trust them enough to say “yeah….maybe I’m slowing down”. When you start slowing down, you can either hang up the keys altogether, or change to a different level of aviation. Don’t put others at risk - stop carrying passengers maybe, operate less demanding airplanes, switch to ultralights off a big field where you can’t hit anyone. You might kill yourself - but don’t take anyone else with you.

One thing is for absolute certain - we will all reach a point where we no longer fly - the question is if that is before or after we take out last breath is the tough part. Listen to others, be honest (with yourself), and realize that your experience is valuable to aviation, even if you can no longer be PIC…..

Paul
 
True story:

I have some friends who are a generation younger than me. One was worrying about her father, my age, driving. We all age at different rates. She asked me how I'd like to be told that it was time to surrender the car keys, and I said "I'd like you to tell me," because I trust her. She was surprised and said that in her family she doesn't get that respect.

Afterwards I got to thinking how I'd get along without a car. There are decent transportation options here in town but for months I wondered how I'd ever get to the hangar to go flying.

Finally, far longer than it should have taken, I realized.

Fortunately she hasn't told me that yet.

Dave
 
This is a very GOOD discussion. I'm 68 and am in pretty good health and shape. I was an ICU RN for over 3 decades and have seen many people pass... some suddenly. Just yesterday I found out that my cousins 41 year old son in law got out of his car then dropped to the ground. People were close. Checked his pulse and nothing. After EMS arrived, the coded him and nothing so he's gone. I know a sudden and without warning kind of event can happen to anyone. It's what I worry about when I carry a passenger but most of the time I fly alone. I have a Dr appointment in a couple weeks and it's always the usual listen to my heart and lungs and see you in 6 months. This time I'm planning to request a couple things to ease my mind. A carotid ultra sound (a check for build up that could lead to a stroke), an EKG and cardiac echo to check heart function... cardiac output. If I get these two done and I'm good that will make me feel better.
When to hang up the keys is a tough decision indeed. I'd say get a good checkout by your doc and not just the standard look and listen. For me it will give me
some peace of mind.
Good to be proactive and your nursing experience can give your doctor some helpful input. Couple of things to note and that your doctor may tell you...carotid ultrasound in the absence of a bruit is generally not useful. A bruit is definitely something your doctor should listen for as a starting point in assessing cardiovascular health, assuming you don't have other neurological symptoms. EKG is likewise of very limited value (many would say no value) in asymptomatic adults, and your Apple Watch can give you just as much useful information. None of these tests would be dangerous or harmful in any way, however, and peace of mind is always a good thing. Of more value might be a cardiac calcium scoring CT, although that is debated and its value (and Medicare payment) is usually stratified according to cardiac risk factors. Cardiac echo would be valuable if there's suspicion of valvular disease (again, bruit) but the true test of cardiovascular risk would be a stress echo to 10 mets. If you're concerned, I'd ask your doctor to schedule one if your insurance will cover it, and they probably will.
 
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There are so many variables, this becomes a very personal decision. Having a person say, "I think you should hang it up." Would be the red flag for me. By the time they worked up the courage, it's probably way past time.
I saw this a lot driving the transit shuttles in Rocky Mountain National Park. I quit because management changed. I still have a Class A with all the endorsements. Some drivers were still plugging along at 90. Some youngsters would scare me.
What scares me isn't the one who can still do it at 90. It's the one who shouldn't and refuses to accept it. I suppose that's what this thread is all about.
 
I learned a saying long time ago "USE IT OR LOOSE IT"
I feel the more a person works at it the longer they will be able to do it. Ha!!! providing your genetics will let you. 74 and not seeing the end any time soon.
But my luck varies FIXIT
 
Wow! I hope I can get proficient enough to reach your time. I'm 66. My problem is all my flying was in BFE and tower ops are like a foreign language on 78 speed. I keep making them mad. I get it. I understand. I know what to say. It just comes out upside down and backwards. Excuse me, I have to go back to listening to ATC Live.
Oh bother.
We all know how you feel. The one thing I learned while operating from a towered field is to keep things "simple and the same" every time. For example, I always taxi to a know place on the AOA and then request taxi clearance after receiving ADIS. We also write-down ADIS wind, runway in-use and code letter. I now know the runway being used and can expect a clearance to that runway and its possible taxi route(s). When calling ground, I make sure I'm not focused on other things around me that could distract my attention and go into "listing mode" (e.g. "cool looking paint job on that RV over there"). When requesting taxi clearance, I keep it simple, the same and always include my departure direction. For example "One One 9'er Whisky Bravo, near self-service fuel, ready to taxi for a North bound departure with Echo". While copying taxi clearance, I write down runway, taxi way(s) and runway intersection. I also write-down any "hold-short" or "give-way" inductions in shorthand form. When reading back a taxi clearance, I always include runway assignment, which they really like to hear. Before takeoff, I keep it simple and include where I am, the runway I'm using and the direction of flight. Example -- "One One 9'er Whisky Bravo, at Alpha-5, 34-leff, ready for northbound departure". When coming back into the airport, I listen to ADIS, write down the wind, runway in-use and code letter. Again, I pick the same known reporting point depending on the direction I'm approaching from. For example, when coming in from the North for 34R -- "One One 9'er Whisky Bravo over North Everett at 2000, inbound for landing 34-right with Tango. Tower will generally say "report right-downwind for runway 34-right" and might also add "departing traffic at your one o-clock, opposite direction, same altitude". Again, keeping it simple -- "9'er Whisky Bravo, report right-downwind for 34-right, looking for traffic". From there, it's generally "cleared to land, 34-right behind the Cessna on downwind". Always remember to include the runway assignment -- this is where guys get corrected by our tower if they don't. (y):cool:(y)
 
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There area lot of really good thoughts in this thread, and it is clear that many are thoughtful about it. We did a survey years ago about the age demographics of the E-AB world, and the median age of our population was in the mid to late 60’s….when I was young, 60 was ANCIENT, but that’s who we are now! I’ve been flying over fifty years, and know objectively that I can’t take the same number f sustained G’s that I could in my 20’s, I don’t hear quite as well, and (frankly) there are airplanes I flew when I was younger that I would not be excited to solo today - not because they weren’t; fun, but because I am not sure I can do them justice as their pilot anymore.

The real problem that we will all face is the “I’ll know when I should hang it up” idea…and yes, I say the same thing - I really do! But just like the insidious onset of Hypoxia, the person going through the degradation process is probably not the best one to judge their own decline. Some do, for sure. Just like I recently declined the offer of trying to land a T-6 from the back seat (I have about an hour total of T-6 time….), good pilots know their limitations. But…do we always? Like the metaphor of the slow-boiling frog, our decline can be so gradual that we might only know in retrospect - as we disentangle our taildraggers from the sagebrush off the edge of the runway - that we have been slowing down.

What to do about it? Develop some trusted friends and talk honestly about our abilities. Put the egos away. If someone says that your judgement about how much fuel to carry, or those crosswinds, or “how did you manage to get strapped in with no headset in the plane?”, you need to trust them enough to say “yeah….maybe I’m slowing down”. When you start slowing down, you can either hang up the keys altogether, or change to a different level of aviation. Don’t put others at risk - stop carrying passengers maybe, operate less demanding airplanes, switch to ultralights off a big field where you can’t hit anyone. You might kill yourself - but don’t take anyone else with you.

One thing is for absolute certain - we will all reach a point where we no longer fly - the question is if that is before or after we take out last breath is the tough part. Listen to others, be honest (with yourself), and realize that your experience is valuable to aviation, even if you can no longer be PIC…..

Paul
Best to make the decision ourselves then have an official paying a visit and demanding the surrender of our ticket.
 
We all know how you feel. The one thing I learned while operating from a towered field is to keep things "simple and the same" every time. For example, I always taxi to a know place on the AOA and then request taxi clearance after receiving ADIS. We also write-down ADIS wind, runway in-use and code letter. I now know the runway being used and can expect a clearance to that runway and its possible taxi route(s). When calling ground, I make sure I'm not focusing on other things around me that could distract my attention and go into "listing mode" (e.g. "cool looking paint job on that RV over there"). When requesting taxi clearance, I keep it simple, the same and always include my departure direction. For example "One One 9'er Whisky Bravo, near self-service fuel, ready to taxi for a North bound departure with Echo". While copying taxi clearance, I write down runway, taxi way(s) and runway intersection. I also write-down any "hold-short" or "give-way" inductions in shorthand form. When reading back a taxi clearance, I always include runway assignment, which they really like to hear! Before takeoff, I keep is simple and include where I am, the runway I'm using and the direction of flight. For example -- "One One 9'er Whisky Bravo, at Alpha-5, 34-leff, ready for northbound departure". When coming back into the airport, I listen to ADIS, write down the wind, runway in-use and code letter. Again, I pick the same known reporting point depending on the direction I'm approaching from. For example, when coming in from the North for 34R -- "One One 9'er Whisky Bravo over North Everett at 2000, inbound for landing 34-right with Tango. Tower will generally say "report right-downwind for runway 34-right" and might also add "departing traffic at your one o-clock, opposite direction, same altitude". Again, keeping it simple -- "9'er Whisky Bravo, report right-downwind for 34-right, looking for traffic". From there, it's generally "cleared to land, 34-right behind the Cessna on downwind". Always remember to include the runway assignment -- this is where guys get corrected by our tower here if they don't. (y):cool:(y)
Sounds like you are being proactive!

I would just like to add a caution; repetition can breed complacency. The best example is something I see at my day job. Pilots will pre-brief the taxi route because "that is what we always get". The danger comes when that is NOT what they give you. You are preloaded to go one way and expected to go another. It is a case of "hearing what you want to hear" or "seeing what you want to see".

It is good that you are writing things down and "taxiing to a known place", "simple and the same every time"; and it's all good until it isn't. My point is that you can unintentionally become complacent when you are so used to the repetition that you stop thinking about what is happening dynamically...and it can happen to someone with 250 hours or 25,000 hours.

Stay engaged, think about what is happening; it may save you from the dreaded " I have a number for you to call" message.
 
My wife and I (both pilots) don't look at this as "when to hang it up" but more "am I fit to fly for any given flight", which is the great aspect of Basic Med -- it provides the tools for flyers to decide before every flight. So, when too many flights become a "no-go" decisions, then it's probably time. Another thing to consider is the amazing number of vitamins and supplements there are to maintain "cognitive health" for as long as possible. And, certainly being retired greatly helps reduce our stress levels. My family practice doctor referred to the working world stress as "corporate warrior syndrome".
 
Sounds like you are being proactive!

I would just like to add a caution; repetition can breed complacency. The best example is something I see at my day job. Pilots will pre-brief the taxi route because "that is what we always get". The danger comes when that is NOT what they give you. You are preloaded to go one way and expected to go another. It is a case of "hearing what you want to hear" or "seeing what you want to see".

It is good that you are writing things down and "taxiing to a known place", "simple and the same every time"; and it's all good until it isn't. My point is that you can unintentionally become complacent when you are so used to the repetition that you stop thinking about what is happening dynamically...and it can happen to someone with 250 hours or 25,000 hours.

Stay engaged, think about what is happening; it may save you from the dreaded " I have a number for you to call" message.
I believe I said "possible taxi route(s)", meaning plural -- right? Not being prepared can cause bigger problems at busy towered airports. For example, if we are at the self-service fuel island for a mid-field takeoff on 34L at KPAE, then we can expect either "taxi via Charlie, Alpha to Alpha 5" or "taxi via Delta, Alpha to Alpha 5" or "taxi via Charlie, Juliet, Alpha to Alpha 5". And, we also know that it might be to either the Alpha-5, Alpha-6 or Alpha 7 intersection. This is what I meant in saying "possible taxi route(s)". But, you are also right about the dangers of "expectation bias".
 
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I grounded myself. It hurt. I was still able to fly and drive, but flying was an area where I felt a lot more responsible for others. I’m diagnosed, but not exhibiting symptoms. But if something I did hurt someone else…. I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself.

I miss aviation very, very much. But… I have twin five year old grandsons. I am training them in Microsoft Flight Sim. I have been using the sim to teach the basics in a Cessna 152 in the local area. I will fund their training should they want it when they get older. It’s almost as satisfying myself.

The twins are in separate classes. Their respective teachers are doing a Surprise Reading thing. Rather than finding a book for them, I wrote my own. It’s a wish-fulfillment thing for me. I attached it if anyone wants to read it. I’m hoping to watch them keep that as a lifetime passion, just as it was for me.
 

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I'm at KFUL in California. We have one physical runway. 06 and 24. Normal wind from the West is runway is 24 but when the Santa Ana winds come in, we have to change to runway 06. The tower frequently uses the instruction, "taxi to runway 24 and then corrects to 06". On occasion, I mix up my N# with my other plane that I have been flying for 35 years. It happens. I'm not giving up flying because of it.
 
I look at this from a perspective that is quite different. My first point is that I read and often reread articles by Steve Krog and Catherine Cavagnaro in Sport Aviation and AOPA. Krog has recently devoted a lot of time to how bad so many instructors are as well as some recent very negative changes in FAA Standards, especially at the Private Pilot level. At the upper end of the scale is the MORON who recently landed a 737 at Roanoke, VA touching down more than halfway down the runway, and was saved by the EMAS in the overrun. Appears to have closed the airport for a couple of days.
I have recently taken up a game that I used to play a lot. Scoring landings: on a scale of 1-10 the nosewheel airplane that touched down three point attitude and didn't bunce or porpoise gets a maximum score of 2. The taildragger that makes a nice but not perfect three point landing gets a 7 or 8. I also factor in the final approach and touchdown point. 500' point gets a higher score and halfway down the runway gets a big downgrade.
After doing this for a while I then ask myself if I can at least match the performance of the highest scoring pilots. Then I need to factor in what airplane I am flying. In the RV6 my answer is absolutely. In the Wittman Tailwind I cannot consistently make perfect landings. In the Beech18 taildragger which I have not flown for 25 years I have a $100 bill that I could do a 8 or better landing on my first attempt.
In addition to this I try to at least once a month do a stall series with a full break, slow flight, steep turns and a simulated engine failure turnback.
I have no way to prove this but I believe that many of the fatal stall/spin accidents involve a pilot who is not current on stall recovery practice to at least a Private Pilot standard. Children of the magenta line.
 
My first flight lesson was on August 16, 1970, in Roseburg, OR. when I was 32. Now I'm 87 and have decided on my own that 2025 would be my last flight. I currently live at the Independence, Oregon airpark, where I've resided for 30 years. I received an FAA, Wright Bros. Master Pilot Award in September 2020 for 50 years of dedicated safe aviation. My last biennial flight review was in November 2024, so I'm still valid until November 2026.

Aviation has been rewarding to me. I was employed for 44 years, with 31 years in commercial banking and 13 years in state government financial review position, always behind a desk. In 1984, while still employed a friend turned me on to experimental aviation. Since 1984 I have built 5 different models of Van's RV aircraft, mostly by myself. My last project was a Thatcher CX5, that was totally scratch-built, and completed in 2020. Aircraft homebuilding has provided me with great satisfaction. I have used my RV aircraft to fly from Oregon to Florida to Oshkosh, into Canada to the Arctic Ocean and into Mexico and places in between. I now do miss aviation, but every beginning also has an end.

Jake Thiessen
Independence, OR
 
34 im glad i bought my RV at this age plenty of runway left. good luck on you older dudes keep on flying!
And, we're glad we started building our RV-9A when we were both 42 -- how time flies then you're having fun! Getting older was much better than we thought it would be too, but we never used alcohol, drugs nor smoked and got our sleep. When we were both in our lower 20's and started flying together, my wife's grandparents, who lived into their late 90's, told us that these things wear-out the body quickly, so we listened. And, there we were back then.

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I believe I said "possible taxi route(s)", meaning plural -- right? Not being prepared can cause bigger problems at busy towered airports. For example, if we are at the self-service fuel island for a mid-field takeoff on 34L at KPAE, then we can expect either "taxi via Charlie, Alpha to Alpha 5" or "taxi via Delta, Alpha to Alpha 5" or "taxi via Charlie, Juliet, Alpha to Alpha 5". And, we also know that it might be to either the Alpha-5, Alpha-6 or Alpha 7 intersection. This is what I meant in saying "possible taxi route(s)". But, you are also right about the dangers of "expectation bias".
No need to get upset; just illustrating the potential problems with preloading yourself. Yes, expectation bias is real. KPAE is a valid example but there are certainly bigger and definitely more complicated airports. Those airports make it virtually impossible to predict one, much less multiple taxi routes (for this example).

I stand by my point, it is of utmost importance to stay engaged and think about what is happening dynamically, not talk yourself into an error, violation, or worse.

Fly Safe.
 
No need to get upset; just illustrating the potential problems with preloading yourself. Yes, expectation bias is real. KPAE is a valid example but there are certainly bigger and definitely more complicated airports. Those airports make it virtually impossible to predict one, much less multiple taxi routes (for this example).

I stand by my point, it is of utmost importance to stay engaged and think about what is happening dynamically, not talk yourself into an error, violation, or worse.

Fly Safe.
No worries on my side -- just trying to help a fellow VAF member who has had very little prior tower experience, and then had one move-in on him at FNL, where they were not being considerate to flyers based there. I had lived in Colorado too and flew from GXY, FNL and many others there. FNL was the airport he was referring to. The idea was to not over complicate comms at tower controlled airports. FNL is a unique situation to say the least, and it doesn't help when ATC snaps back at pilots -- right?
 
Love the conversation. I believe being honest with yourself and confiding with close friends is key.

As one data point though, my dad was flying our RV6 until he was 93.

I finally had to have the talk with him and while he wasn't happy, he understood.

I think flying regularly is what got him that far. He's 99 now. One of the last of the "Great Generation".

Laird
 
“...where/when do you draw the line?"
When you hear the little voice.

Last year, I put away a lifelong passion. I was not reluctant, but less likely to take a sportbike on a commute, a trip, a fun ride... As the bike got less attention, the reactions, insights, performance, and capabilities built over years of saddle time, decreased, and the little voice reminded me I was not "as good as I was."

Like a GA pilot, I took recurring formal training to get a third party objective and endorsement: I was still safe, current, and competent.
Riding at a high level kept me focused on getting better every ride: examining brakepoints, turn-in, lean angle, shifting, timing, positioning...
The difficulty, and the consequences of a mistake at speed, made me work at "better" every ride: examining brakepoints, turn-in, lean angle, shifting, timing, positioning...
I did not want to get hurt, much less hurt a passenger (rider, pedestrian, driver...) from my error.
When I heard the little voice, I listened, and listed the bike.

The last "Condition Inspection" was telling.
Cleaning -for years a joy - was more work; using special tools now took time to find what had been proud exhibits; crawling to check the bottom of fenders, frame, and suspension was a bit slower; and the logs and manuals took time to re-find.
After some searching, I met a busy, energetic, enthusiastic, less-experienced rider, and a sale became mentoring and helping someone step up to a new challenge.

Just as I've been "happy to be down here, wishing I was up there" a time or two, I'm happy to be off two wheels by my choice.
 
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