RV8 Bent Stick

[Scott Hersha]

OK, I’m trying the google photo sharing instruction on this site to see if I can get it to work. I have the app on my iPad because my son in law, who is an excellent photographer, uses google to post pics of my grandchildren in a shared album. The instructions say something about right clicking on the photo, which of course you can’t do on an iPad, so I’m experimenting. My link looks too short to be right, but I won’t know until I try to post it.

This is a pic of my modified bent (welded) front stick on my new RV8 that I’m building.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cA0KnZCs7M4PgTrD2

Wow!! It looks like it works! The stick is offset 2 inches and the offset clears the front edge of the seat pan. Some of the top of the stick will be removed when I install my infinity grip, but there’s still plenty of room for it to clear the bottom of the IP and in the full forward position it doesn’t reach the gear tower cross brace. Cut angle is 65 degrees - 2 cuts 2.3 inches apart. That cut off piece makes the offset piece - rotated making the upper and lower parts parallel.

 

[humptybump]

nice welding jig ...

 

[donaziza]

OK Scott, I gotta ask----What does this bent stick do for you? Would I want one?

 

[Mark Dickens]

Not Scott, but this is on top of my list of things to get done. I'm not tall and my arms aren't long, so when I'm hand flying the plane, I have my right arm extended in a way that is not conducive to a long session. What this would do for me is allow me to rest my arm on my leg and fly the plane with my fingers instead of having my arm stuck straight out.

 

[Saville]

OK Scott, I gotta ask----What does this bent stick do for you? Would I want one?

I've been trying to work this out for myself and answer the question:

Presently the stick I have in my -8 is too short. Because of this the web between my thumb and forefinger will hit the Flaps Down button if I'm not careful. Also when I grip the stick my forefinger will occasionally hit the PTT.
my little finger never touches the stick as my arm is at a decided down angle.

I have about 1.75" of clearance between the underside of the instrument panel and the top of the present stick. So I could add a little less than that much to the stick height.

If that 1.75" is not enough to alleviate the grip issue then there's no recourse except to bend the stick. But bending the stick 2 inches will make no difference at all because it will still go under the panel. By making a PCV mock up I concluded that I need to bend the stick back 4" in order to raise the stick height above the bottom edge of the panel and prevent it from hitting the panel.

So I'm not certain what bending the stick 2" back does.

Van's makes curved sticks for other planes - will one of those fit in an -8?

 

[RV8iator]

I have a stick exactly like that and it works great. Way more comfortable for me to fly with and when flying inverted it?s an easy push. I too am blessed with arms shorter than an orangutan.

 

[Saville]

I have a stick exactly like that and it works great. Way more comfortable for me to fly with and when flying inverted it’s an easy push. I too am blessed with arms shorter than an orangutan.

Ah ok so the main benefit of the 2" adjustment seems to be to place the stick in a comfy position when at/near neutral. I understand that now.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

nice welding jig ...

I'm really impressed with how the welding could be accomplished without damaging the paint......

 

[Low Pass]

I'm really impressed with how the welding could be accomplished without damaging the paint......

Cold fusion.

As for the -8 stick, after 3 tries, I have a good config that's high enough and set back enough to be comfortable. But as Scott shows, it has to be cut and welded. Bending won't get it there.

 

[Saville]

Cold fusion.

As for the -8 stick, after 3 tries, I have a good config that's high enough and set back enough to be comfortable. But as Scott shows, it has to be cut and welded. Bending won't get it there.

Hi Brian,

What is the setback distance of your stick? The distance between the lines of the two vertical parts?

Thanks.

 

[Low Pass]

Hi Brian,

What is the setback distance of your stick? The distance between the lines of the two vertical parts?

Thanks.

Vertical rise from pivot to centerline of joint, ~10.5" and the run from first joint aft is ~5.5". The angle is probably ~15 degrees off perpindicular.

 

[Saville]

Vertical rise from pivot to centerline of joint, ~10.5" and the run from first joint aft is ~5.5". The angle is probably ~15 degrees off perpindicular.

Thanks Brian. Very helpful. Corroborates my own measurements.

My plan is to build a stick out of PVC without bends so that it passes underneath the lower edge of the panel and see if that gives me the height increase I need. If it does, I'll cut the new stick for that height and replace the old one.

If the height increase is not enough, then I'll play the cut and weld game.

 

[springer]

Ah ok so the main benefit of the 2" adjustment seems to be to place the stick in a comfy position when at/near neutral. I understand that now.

I agree with you Saville about making the stick taller, mainly for better leverage as my -8 is nose heavy and aft for more comfort. I have never cared for the -8's stick ergonomics when compared to my -4, but I have learned to live with it.

 

[akarmy]

FYI, Just keep in mind everything is a tradeoff. I tried the bent stick solution and while yes it makes straight and level very comfortable (for all the reasons mentioned) I found it ruined aerobatics and messed with my 3 point landings. Something about the position of my arm being further back reduced the leverage I got on the stick when pulling hard.

I ended up going back to the standard stick. But you can test it yourself once you are flying. (realizing that some do like it, as Jerry and others are flying with it moved back successfully).

 

[Scott Hersha]

Sam -
Hah! I used a cool welding technique!

The paint I used to repaint was Ford tractor paint from Tractor Supply, which I thought was supposed to be the same color as Vans powder color - clearly it isn't, but so what.

The offset stick position is more comfortable to me (and most people I think), and allows the stick to remain as tall as possible. In some RV8's, depending on how it's rigged, the full forward position of the stick will contact the gear tower cross brace, even though it clears the bottom of the IP, so it would need to be shorter usually. My stick with grip will clear the bottom of the panel by 1/2" (top of cooley hat) and not reach the cross brace. If I didn't have the offset, it would interfere with the cross brace at that length.

On my first RV8 I did this same thing and it was perfect for me. On that airplane, I built arm rests that were in a normal arm rest position, unlike the orangutan designed position that is standard on the side walls, and it was perfectly comfortable for me. I could fly with my arm on the arm rest and move the stick all the way through a full stall three point landing with my wrist. It was never in the way. You should design your airplane with what works for you. This works for me - and the guy who bought my first RV8.

I am 6'1" with a 34" sleeve length, and a short stick way down between my knees isn't comfortable. If I gain 100 pounds, all in my belly, I may have a problem.

 

[N729LS]

Two questions:

1. Does anyone know, off the top of their head, what the wall thickness is of the front stick tube?
2. Does this kind of modification, while increasing comfort, make it harder to get full aileron travel?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[Ironflight]

Two questions:

1. Does anyone know, off the top of their head, what the wall thickness is of the front stick tube?
2. Does this kind of modification, while increasing comfort, make it harder to get full aileron travel?

Thanks,
Andy

1. Don't know
2. Nope

 

[scard]

.035 wall

(other useless words here)

 

[WA85]

RV-8 S Bent Stick PIREP

The original front control stick I put in my RV-8 was a stock Vans stick, with no bends and a Tosten grip. The overall height of this configuration was 13.75" from the center of the pivot mount bolt to the top of the grip. This provided approximately 3/4" clearance between the top of the stick and instrument panel and 1/2" at the gear tower cross over brace. The Tosten grip is excellent and in no way do I want to say that it is a bad design, but I will admit I did a poor job of incorporating it into my initial stick configuration. The Tosten grip requires the stick to be cut off fairly low in order for it to plug into the 1" diameter hole in the top of the stick. The Tosten grip also has a very ergonomic forward cant, however this also has the affect of moving the grip point of the grip forward vs a more vertical grip. I contacted Mike Cingari (who used to offer RV-8 stick bending services, now it is Karlo Gatdula) and had him make an "S" bent stick for me. The stick I got back had some wrinkles in the bends and I was concerned about loosing strength due to the wrinkles. Before installation, I load tested the S bent stick with 100 lbs in four directions to see if the S bent stick would fail due to the bends or wrinkles, it didn't budge at all. I figure if I have to pull more than 100 lbs while in flight, I will have other problems. The Tosten grip can no longer used since the S bent stick would have to be cut off right at the top of the bend, so I had to use a slip over type grip. I chose a 1" diameter polished wood grip form Acft Sp that had a PTT hole already drilled. I cut the S bent stick to 13.80" and this allows the slip over grip to just barely bottom out before the bottom of the grip reaches the top of the bend. In this configuration, the overall height of the stick is 14.18" tall, which clears the instrument panel by approximately 3/8", with the PTT rubber button being the highest point. Since the S bent stick moves the vertical axis of the stick about 1.75" aft, the grip doesn't come close to the gear tower cross over brace. Ergonomically, the S bent stick is much more comfortable, it allowed my to remove a seat back cushion and allows for what I think is "normal" hand / arm positioning during flight instead of a forward hunched position. A side affect was that the stick is not slightly longer and the stick forces feel a bit lighter, plus the muscle memory is different, making for a slightly odd feeling during the first test flight and acro. The combination of a 1.75" aft S bend, a more vertical grip axis and being slightly taller, all add up to a much better configuration for my RV-8. Overall, I would recommend the S bent stick to any RV-8 pilot / builder as a safe and ergonomic improvement to great design.

 

[AussieRV8]

I know this is an old thread, and I have read all the other threads on this topic.

I need to replace my RV8 Stick. I am blessed with t-rex arms, and the stick is just too far away and awkward. My plane has the Tosten CS-8 grip, which I really like and don't wish to replace. It does, however, have a forward tilt which makes the problem worse.

I made some 3D printed mock-ups which I have tried various configurations. I have determined that the cushion would need to have a cut out, and that the stick would have to be cut/welded rather than bent.

However, I seem to have the problem that the stick either gets in the way of the panel, or my thighs get in the way with full aileron movement. Has anyone managed to get the configuration to work with the stick not going below the panel? I was fortunate to fly with Bruce Bohannon, and I seem to remember his stick did not go below the panel. Any other suggestions? I attach some images of the mock-ups. The curved grip matches the geometry of the Tosten CS-8 grip.

 

[Jjackh10]

I made some 3D printed mock-ups which I have tried various configurations. I have determined that the cushion would need to have a cut out, and that the stick would have to be cut/welded rather than bent.

If your going to cut and weld anyway why not just do a back to back 90deg (or very near 90) that follows the path of the clamps for the mockup? I suspect that would allow the lower part of the stick to go under the panel enough for the travel needed.

I cant draw on a computer and apparently not too good at google this morning but hopefully this gives an idea of what I'm picturing.

 

[skirting_virga]

I need to replace my RV8 Stick. I am blessed with t-rex arms, and the stick is just too far away and awkward.

I assure you, I do not have T-rex arms and the stick is just too far forward. As is the throttle. I'm willing to think there could be variations in backrest position or cushion thickness that may be responsible, but I'm tending to think a) Van is tall himself, and b) there could have been more done to improve ergonomics in the design - at least factory-approved build options. There are likely very good reasons the 10 and 14 get a bent stick.

I made some 3D printed mock-ups which I have tried various configurations. I have determined that the cushion would need to have a cut out, and that the stick would have to be cut/welded rather than bent.

I've spent a lot of time on this lately and these are my conclusions as well.

 

[AussieRV8]

If your going to cut and weld anyway why not just do a back to back 90deg (or very near 90) that follows the path of the clamps for the mockup? I suspect that would allow the lower part of the stick to go under the panel enough for the travel needed.

I cant draw on a computer and apparently not too good at google this morning but hopefully this gives an idea of what I'm picturing.
View attachment 97671

Thanks Jack,

I have numerous centre pieces to try. I have tried the 90 degree (or near to). To make it go under the panel. In this configuration, the aileron movement is limited by my legs, and would require a huge cutout of the cushion. This is why I am trying to see if anyone has managed to find a way for the stick to not reach the panel, or anything else that has worked.

 

[AussieRV8]

I assure you, I do not have T-rex arms and the stick is just too far forward. As is the throttle. I'm willing to think there could be variations in backrest position or cushion thickness that may be responsible, but I'm tending to think a) Van is tall himself, and b) there could have been more done to improve ergonomics in the design - at least factory-approved build options. There are likely very good reasons the 10 and 14 get a bent stick.


I've spent a lot of time on this lately and these are my conclusions as well.

Thanks, I already have 2 back cushions to get me closer - feels like I am too close to the panel now (and the downslope of the canopy). I need to find a way to get rid of at least one back cushion.

 

[WWhunter]

Thanks, I already have 2 back cushions to get me closer - feels like I am too close to the panel now (and the downslope of the canopy). I need to find a way to get rid of at least one back cushion.

I'm going through a very similar issue. I haven't even flown my RV8 yet due to the stick being so short. I did some taxi and high speed tests the other night and the plane is difficult to control with the very short stick. 500+ TW hours and this thing was twitchy. My control hand is literally down between my legs, as in the top of the grip is maybe a half inch above the top of my legs. With an additional seat cushion that makes the sight picture over the cowl more to my liking, the top is below leg level. The shortness makes for exaggerated aileron/elevator movement with minimal input. A slight touch and I'm almost over controlling. Not conductive to being safe with my inexperience in RV's. It's a bit unsettling for now and until I actually get time in the plane, I'm looking for advice.

I have been corresponding to with a guy that has a bent stick with an Infinity grip already installed, which would make the swap easier since that is the grip that is currently on my stick. Just awaiting measurements to make sure it will work for me before paying $350. If it isn't usable I will order a new stick and have it cut/welded to fit my needs. Like you, getting the measurements right so that it works well is the trick.

I am wondering if anyone has built their own stick. In my search, I see it is 1" dia. by 0.035 thickness, assuming it is 4130. Buy a piece and weld in the fittings. Also, just and idea, but if one were to lengthen the bottom attachment slightly, which would change the geometry a bit, allow for less deflection on the control surfaces with the same stick movement? I'm not suggesting a huge increase, maybe 1/8-1/4". Or would this mess up the overall feel of the plane? Just brainstorming here. I'm not an engineer, just an old farm boy that is always tinkering.

New to RV's so I am trying to figure out also if I can adjust the controls to where the stick stops before hitting the panel. Placing the top further aft will give me some extra distance for when I am forward stick, but If I make the top too far aft, it'll probably be in my gut. Good thing I stopped drinking beer many years ago!! LOL

Please keep us posted on your results.

Keith

 

[AussieRV8]

I'm going through a very similar issue. I haven't even flown my RV8 yet due to the stick being so short. I did some taxi and high speed tests the other night and the plane is difficult to control with the very short stick. 500+ TW hours and this thing was twitchy. My control hand is literally down between my legs, as in the top of the grip is maybe a half inch above the top of my legs. With an additional seat cushion that makes the sight picture over the cowl more to my liking, the top is below leg level. The shortness makes for exaggerated aileron/elevator movement with minimal input. A slight touch and I'm almost over controlling. Not conductive to being safe with my inexperience in RV's. It's a bit unsettling for now and until I actually get time in the plane, I'm looking for advice.

I have been corresponding to with a guy that has a bent stick with an Infinity grip already installed, which would make the swap easier since that is the grip that is currently on my stick. Just awaiting measurements to make sure it will work for me before paying $350. If it isn't usable I will order a new stick and have it cut/welded to fit my needs. Like you, getting the measurements right so that it works well is the trick.

I am wondering if anyone has built their own stick. In my search, I see it is 1" dia. by 0.035 thickness, assuming it is 4130. Buy a piece and weld in the fittings. Also, just and idea, but if one were to lengthen the bottom attachment slightly, which would change the geometry a bit, allow for less deflection on the control surfaces with the same stick movement? I'm not suggesting a huge increase, maybe 1/8-1/4". Or would this mess up the overall feel of the plane? Just brainstorming here. I'm not an engineer, just an old farm boy that is always tinkering.

New to RV's so I am trying to figure out also if I can adjust the controls to where the stick stops before hitting the panel. Placing the top further aft will give me some extra distance for when I am forward stick, but If I make the top too far aft, it'll probably be in my gut. Good thing I stopped drinking beer many years ago!! LOL

Please keep us posted on your results.

Keith

Hi Keith,

My stick does not feel that short, but too far forward for me. Lets keep in touch and share dimensions when we work out a solution.

 

[WWhunter]

Hi Keith,

My stick does not feel that short, but too far forward for me. Lets keep in touch and share dimensions when we work out a solution.

I will keep you updated. I did receive the measurements from the gentleman that offered me the curved stick. I had planned on getting into town and making some measurements, but an old back injury has reared it's head just before I was going to go. Might be a few days before I can get in and check on the fit.

I did research getting some 1" 4130 from WICKS, which is pretty cheap. Around $15.00 for 3 feet of tube, which is plenty to make 2 sticks. Just in case I screw it up. This way I could configure everything to my specs, have it welded up, and paint. Would rather not go that route, but ordering a new one from VANS is $88.00 and then I would still have to cut it up and reweld or attempt to bend it. I have read that they are a bugger to bend without kinking..

 

[bobrath]

I bent the supplied straight sticks for my 8A . I used a small hydraulic pipe bender I got from Eastwood (automotive) that I've used for other projects. Uses a bottle jack for power. Filled with sand and bent modestly and equally in both directions. Then figured out the length.

 

[jbDC9]

Guys, skip the bent/curved stick, it just won’t do what you need. Scroll up this thread and read posts #9 through about 15 or so from Bryan Jones (aka, Low Pass). His stick design is what you want; I shamelessly copied his idea and am very happy with the results. I bought a new stick from Vans plus a section of 1”x.035 tube and had a local welder fabricate it for me; I used Bryan’s measurements to start, but used some heavy cardboard as a template to make some tweaks. I also used a shorter stick grip that allows the mitered/welded new stick to fit under the panel, and no seat cushion cutouts needed. It’s soooo much better than the crappy stock design!

Here’s a link to his pic page, scroll down a bit to see measurements;

Airplane RV-8 N8ZN · Jun 9, 2016 – Aug 18, 2025 📸

Shared album · Tap to view!

goo.gl

 

[skirting_virga]

I bought a new stick from Vans plus a section of 1”x.035 tube and had a local welder fabricate it for me

Out of stock, unfortunately.

 

[fl-mike]

another thing you can do is something like this: (3D printed concept for fit checks, but I lost interest)


The issue with a Tosten grip is that the mount extends below the grip, so you need a length of straight tubing, and the (curved) bent sticks don't have enough "straight" after the bend.

 

[RV7 To Go]

Originally my stock stick was too far forward for comfort. I adjusted the elevator pushrods so the stick grip (Tosten CS-8) is just in front of the panel at neutral elevator. The stick is cut so the grip clears the bottom of the stock panel by 1/2". In cruise my forearm rests on my leg and it is comfortable. I still get full forward and aft deflection, although full forward is a reach, but if I ever need that I am in serious trouble! I had to use a Ray Allen grip on the rear stick to avoid hitting the pilot seat back at full forward travel. I am not long armed but the stock stick works for me and I don't find it twitchy. I also only have a normal thickness (about 1 1/4") seat back cushion. Although not exactly in the neutral aileron position you can get the idea from the pic.

 

[WWhunter]

Out of stock, unfortunately.

Yes, that's what I found out when I called to order one. Supposed to have them back in stock around mid October. In the meantime, since I figured that I would end up cutting it up and rewelding, I checked Wicks for the material. A 3' piece of 1" 4130 is about $15, which is plenty to make two sticks if I screw it up. I'll have to find someone to weld it, since I only have a mig welder and do farmer welds on busted equipment. LOL!