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MOSAIC Repairman Certificate classes

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IBRNGAS

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I've owned my RV-8 for 5 years, unfortunately I'm not the original builder. However I have maintained military aircraft for over 35 years. So, when the new rules came out with MOSAIC it got me excited. Then I started to look for the classes, none to be found.

I think Van's Aircraft would be a terrific resource to host and maybe schedule these classes across the country. As Van's Aircraft owners we obviously trust them for aircraft components, who would be better to trust for our training
 
I find it troubling that everyone is championing this part of the MOSAIC rule when I can only find one single institution that offers the full Certificate course. Not really helpful to provide more flexibility on providing authorization for conditional inspections when you can't take the classes.
 
Vans just dropped this YouTube video. “Mosaic and the Future of GA”


Answers many questions, especially some involving Vans aircraft.
 
543TB said:
I find it troubling that everyone is championing this part of the MOSAIC rule when I can only find one single institution that offers the full Certificate course. Not really helpful to provide more flexibility on providing authorization for conditional inspections when you can't take the classes.
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IBRNGAS said:
I've owned my RV-8 for 5 years, unfortunately I'm not the original builder. However I have maintained military aircraft for over 35 years. So, when the new rules came out with MOSAIC it got me excited. Then I started to look for the classes, none to be found.

I think Van's Aircraft would be a terrific resource to host and maybe schedule these classes across the country. As Van's Aircraft owners we obviously trust them for aircraft components, who would be better to trust for our training
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Try https://rainbowaviation.com/courses/ or SportAviationSpecialties.com. I”m in the October class with Sport Aviation Specialities. Classes do fill up quickly.

Chris
 
Chkaharyer99 said:
Vans just dropped this YouTube video. “Mosaic and the Future of GA”


Answers many questions, especially some involving Vans aircraft.
Click to expand...
I did watch that video. There was some good stuff, but not the full plan I was hoping for. October is coming up quick.
 
Rainbow has been offering LS classes in Missouri for a couple of years now. They appear to have a Washington State base as well. I spoke to someone at Rainbow and they sometimes work with individual EAA chapters to bring their LSRI program (two days) to local markets.
 
Rainbow appears to be the only facility that offers the full LSRM course. Does anyone know if other “schools” are pursuing the required FAA authorization to host the full course?
 
I spent some time digging and from a practical perspective the Rainbow courses were the only ones that are actually active?
 
Sport Aviation Specialties is also live. I spoke with the owner I think on the phone. I ended up going with Rainbow scheduled for Oct.
 
Majorpayne317641 said:
Sport Aviation Specialties is also live. I spoke with the owner I think on the phone. I ended up going with Rainbow scheduled for Oct.
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From what I could find Sport Aviation Specialties doesn’t offer the full 15ish day LSRM course. The only thing I found offered on their website was the 2 day LSRI course.
 
If Rainbow is the only source for classes, then that is a serious choke point. In my eyes that's more reason the kit manufacturers should be able to provide their own classes.
 
IBRNGAS said:
If Rainbow is the only source for classes, then that is a serious choke point. In my eyes that's more reason the kit manufacturers should be able to provide their own classes.
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They could, I don't think the kit manufacturers want to. Without naming names I understand that Rainbow does private training courses for employees at at least a few of them.

I also have noticed some job listings for LSRM teaching candidates at one of the mobility start ups. I would expect the options for training to expand over the next couple years.
 
IBRNGAS said:
I've owned my RV-8 for 5 years, unfortunately I'm not the original builder. However I have maintained military aircraft for over 35 years. So, when the new rules came out with MOSAIC it got me excited. Then I started to look for the classes, none to be found.

I think Van's Aircraft would be a terrific resource to host and maybe schedule these classes across the country. As Van's Aircraft owners we obviously trust them for aircraft components, who would be better to trust for our training
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I'm signed up for a LSRI course by Rainbow next March. In talking with them, it's apparent that the demand has been pretty overwhelming. They've tried to satisfy some of the demand by making side "deals" with individual EAA chapters, so this might be available to you. I also got the impression that instructors are in short supply. As far as Vans and the shorter inspection course (maybe applies to the maintenance course also), I believe it's mainly centered on the FAR's with little or no hands-on work, and not specific to any set of airplanes. Vans might also consider it a negative liability risk if they sponsored a course.
 
I am new to this forum. But I came here specifically to gather some information about this topic.

I’m exploring the idea of offering Light Sport Repairman—Maintenance and Light Sport Repairman—Inspection training here in Central California. Before I go too far down the planning road, I wanted to reach out to the VAF community to gauge whether this is a possible market for our school.

  1. Is there a need?
    • Would builders/owners in this region (or nearby states) be interested in taking either the LSRI course (annual condition inspection authority for your own E-LSA or EAB aircraft) or the LSRM course (broader privileges for maintenance and inspections on S-LSAs and E-LSAs)?
    • If you’ve wanted this training but found travel, cost, or scheduling to be a barrier, would a Central CA location help?
  2. What would you want from such a course?
    • Preferred course length/schedule (e.g., one intensive week vs. weekends spread out).
    • Location factors (proximity to airports, lodging, transportation).
    • Instructional style (hands-on labs, real aircraft examples, structured classroom, etc.).
    • Other features that would make the training worthwhile for you.

I’d love to hear from those who have taken these courses elsewhere—what worked well, and what could be improved?

At this stage, I’m just gathering input to see if the demand justifies moving forward. Your feedback will really help shape whether this becomes a reality and how I design it to best serve the community.
 
When Rainbow was in northern (I mean way north of SF..SAC) California, they did very well with just the LS people.

There IS a demand for all western states, Colorado west.. And every time a used RV changes hands, there is a new potential student... I think that, is a good bet.

Central California is a big area, can you be a little more specific.
What is your background to make this happen. And maybe add a name so we know who we are talking to.
 
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I took the LSRM training last October offered by Rainbow, in anticipation of MOSAIC offering some level of opportunity for LSRM certificated individuals. The training was excellent and I'm glad I took it when I did. The owners/trainers are very professional and have extensive experience and knowledge of aviation, across all aspects from certified, to experimental, to light sport. Although they focus on Light Sport, it is quite apparent that they "know all aspects of General Aviation". Great training facilities with very modern multimedia capability (ie, fully digitally connected A/V system that includes digital white boards). There are a few campgrounds nearby, for those that want to camp, and lodging in nearby towns.

Once the training was completed (15 full days including both in class and hands on experiential learning), everyone had to take and complete the FAA approved exam. Once the exam was passed, then a person needs to go to an FAA FSDO office, and submit their paperwork and application for an LSRM certificate. The certificate is similar to a pilot certificate, plastic, and defines the mechanic rating, LSRM. The reason I am describing this is first, to help convey the level of professionalism, and second to convey that this level of training is probably NOT something that someone decides on a given day that it is something that they want to offer. Rainbow has been doing the training for many years, and has developed a depth of educational capability including visual props to help explain complicated systems, and multi-station workstations in large shop areas to accommodate the many learning teams with each "class" of learners. In addition, the structured curriculum and exam have been approved by the FAA. I am not sure how long it would take to get such a training program approved by the FAA. But I suspect it would be a fairly exhaustive and time consuming procedure. However, I am sure it is possible, and wish good luck to those that want to pursue an opportunity to instruct in FAA approved LSRM training.
 
gasman said:
When Rainbow was in northern (I mean way north of SF..SAC) California, they did very well with just the LS people.

There IS a demand for all western states, Colorado west.. And every time a used RV changes hands, there is a new potential student... I think that, is a good bet.

Central California is a big area, can you be a little more specific.
What is your background to make this happen. And maybe add a name so we know who we are talking to.
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My name is Jason,

I’m an A&P / IA and also serve as a DME. I work at an FAA Part 147 AMT school where we’ve been training A&Ps since 1948. I have been teaching aircraft maintenance for 16 years.

From what I’ve seen, there’s a real lack of Light Sport Repairman (LSR) training opportunities not just in California, but nationwide. With MOSAIC coming online, I think the gap will only grow, particularly with more EAB owners wanting to perform their own condition inspections.

Our mission as a school has always been twofold:
  1. Support the local community with training that’s relevant and accessible; leading to a well paying job or an opportunity to transfer to a University.
  2. Support the aviation industry by preparing new people to enter the workforce and to ensure the industry is staffed with well qualified professionals.
While A&P certification remains the gold standard, the cost and time commitment can be a barrier. LSR certification could serve as an entry-level pathway, something that supports current owners while also opening the door for new technicians to step into aviation and, potentially, move on toward an A&P.

Central California for us means the Fresno area (specifically, Reedley, CA), which makes training accessible from a wide portion of the state. Hot summers and mild winters.
 
wsquare said:
I took the LSRM training last October offered by Rainbow, in anticipation of MOSAIC offering some level of opportunity for LSRM certificated individuals. The training was excellent and I'm glad I took it when I did. The owners/trainers are very professional and have extensive experience and knowledge of aviation, across all aspects from certified, to experimental, to light sport. Although they focus on Light Sport, it is quite apparent that they "know all aspects of General Aviation". Great training facilities with very modern multimedia capability (ie, fully digitally connected A/V system that includes digital white boards). There are a few campgrounds nearby, for those that want to camp, and lodging in nearby towns.

Once the training was completed (15 full days including both in class and hands on experiential learning), everyone had to take and complete the FAA approved exam. Once the exam was passed, then a person needs to go to an FAA FSDO office, and submit their paperwork and application for an LSRM certificate. The certificate is similar to a pilot certificate, plastic, and defines the mechanic rating, LSRM. The reason I am describing this is first, to help convey the level of professionalism, and second to convey that this level of training is probably NOT something that someone decides on a given day that it is something that they want to offer. Rainbow has been doing the training for many years, and has developed a depth of educational capability including visual props to help explain complicated systems, and multi-station workstations in large shop areas to accommodate the many learning teams with each "class" of learners. In addition, the structured curriculum and exam have been approved by the FAA. I am not sure how long it would take to get such a training program approved by the FAA. But I suspect it would be a fairly exhaustive and time consuming procedure. However, I am sure it is possible, and wish good luck to those that want to pursue an opportunity to instruct in FAA approved LSRM training.
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I agree 100% with everything you’ve said about Rainbow, they’ve built a very professional and well-structured program, and they deserve a lot of credit for setting the standard. In fact, one of our former instructors was a student of theirs back when they were in California.

We don’t intend to compete with Rainbow. They’re well outside our market, and with the current demand and waitlists, there’s more than enough need to support additional providers without stepping on anyone’s toes.

I’m also very familiar with the FAA side of things. When Part 147 was revised a few years ago, our school had to essentially start from scratch to get re-certified under the new rules. The process of becoming an Air Agency was every bit as rigorous as what’s required to get an FAA acceptance for an LSR program, if not more so.

So yes, it’s an exhaustive and time-consuming procedure, but it’s also something we have direct experience navigating. We’ve already run the proposal through our Advisory Committee, and the college administration has given us the “green light” to move forward. Our local ASI at the FSDO is supportive as well, so right now we’re in the data-gathering and preliminary research stage.
 
wsquare said:
I took the LSRM training last October offered by Rainbow, in anticipation of MOSAIC offering some level of opportunity for LSRM certificated individuals. The training was excellent and I'm glad I took it when I did. The owners/trainers are very professional and have extensive experience and knowledge of aviation, across all aspects from certified, to experimental, to light sport. Although they focus on Light Sport, it is quite apparent that they "know all aspects of General Aviation". Great training facilities with very modern multimedia capability (ie, fully digitally connected A/V system that includes digital white boards). There are a few campgrounds nearby, for those that want to camp, and lodging in nearby towns.

Once the training was completed (15 full days including both in class and hands on experiential learning), everyone had to take and complete the FAA approved exam. Once the exam was passed, then a person needs to go to an FAA FSDO office, and submit their paperwork and application for an LSRM certificate. The certificate is similar to a pilot certificate, plastic, and defines the mechanic rating, LSRM. The reason I am describing this is first, to help convey the level of professionalism, and second to convey that this level of training is probably NOT something that someone decides on a given day that it is something that they want to offer. Rainbow has been doing the training for many years, and has developed a depth of educational capability including visual props to help explain complicated systems, and multi-station workstations in large shop areas to accommodate the many learning teams with each "class" of learners. In addition, the structured curriculum and exam have been approved by the FAA. I am not sure how long it would take to get such a training program approved by the FAA. But I suspect it would be a fairly exhaustive and time consuming procedure. However, I am sure it is possible, and wish good luck to those that want to pursue an opportunity to instruct in FAA approved LSRM training.
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Thanks for the great description of the 15-day course.
I’m currently registered for the 2-day “inspector” course from Rainbow (as I imagine many of us are / would like to).
Can anyone give an overview of the 2-day course?
 
Anyone who comes up with an online version of the “two day inspection course” will have a ton of customers.
 
The FAA has an Advisory Circular detailing the Certification of Light Sport Repairmen.

Echoing the comments above by JasonDRV4Me, and after have gone through a Part 147 A&P school full time (San Diego Miramar College), I think that there is a huge opportunity for many of these current Part 147 schools to offer up something like a summer school or winter break session classes to meet this new demand. Heck, a semester class (16 weeks) meeting just one day a week would cover the required class time. These schools would create the classes and get them FAA approved, then provide the class and lab time to meet the requirements for the Repairman certificate.

Just be glad that there isn't an FAA Written test, Oral and Practicals like they have for the A&P ratings.
 
The current challenge is that Mosaic also announced that the course outline, curriculum, etc would be changing from what it is today (which is still valid). So my guess is until the new format comes out I don't see anyone else jumping in. Why tool up for something that is changing.
 
Dugaru said:
Anyone who comes up with an online version of the “two day inspection course” will have a ton of customers.
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bruceh said:
The FAA has an Advisory Circular detailing the Certification of Light Sport Repairmen.

Echoing the comments above by JasonDRV4Me, and after have gone through a Part 147 A&P school full time (San Diego Miramar College), I think that there is a huge opportunity for many of these current Part 147 schools to offer up something like a summer school or winter break session classes to meet this new demand. Heck, a semester class (16 weeks) meeting just one day a week would cover the required class time. These schools would create the classes and get them FAA approved, then provide the class and lab time to meet the requirements for the Repairman certificate.

Just be glad that there isn't an FAA Written test, Oral and Practicals like they have for the A&P ratings.
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bruceh,

Thanks for the link. That Advisory Circular has been the go-to reference for a long time, but with MOSAIC coming online it’s now considered obsolete. Our local FSDO shared FAA Order 8000.84B with me, which goes into much greater detail and is the guidance they’re currently using to evaluate and approve training programs.

If it’s not too large, I’ll try to attach it here in case others are interested. That said, I think we’re all in a transition period, and things will likely continue to evolve as MOSAIC gets fully implemented.

Under MOSAIC, the rule now calls for repairman certification to align with the mechanic ACS. The challenge is that there isn’t a dedicated Repairman ACS yet, and the rule doesn’t specify to what extent the two must align. For context, the mechanic ACS has 1,195 standards requiring about 2,000 hours of instruction. Obviously, that has to be distilled down considerably to fit into a 16-day course. Until the FAA publishes a dedicated Repairman ACS, Order 8000.84B doesn’t fully match the new regulation.

My expectation is that we’ll see one of two things:
  1. The FAA updates or replaces 8000.84B to fold in MOSAIC changes.
  2. A new Repairman ACS gets published (similar to the mechanic ACS) so there’s a clear standard to measure against.
In the meantime, I suspect FSDOs will be working from a combination of 8000.84B, MOSAIC language, and interim policy guidance until the ACS is formally issued.
 

Attachments

aadamson,

That’s an important point to consider. Since the rules are in flux right now, I agree it’s risky for someone to start from scratch until the FAA finalizes the new format.

In our case, though, we’re already tooled up. Since the repairman certificate is moving toward alignment with the mechanic certificate, we can draw directly from our existing Part 147 curriculum and simply carve out the sections specific to LSR. From there, it’s a matter of supplementing with LSA-focused content. We have recently been collecting LSA focus equipment as we update and expand our AMT program. We now have an RV-12, a Sonex, and a collection of powerplants from Rotax and Jabaru.

That gives us a head start and makes the transition more about tailoring what we already teach rather than reinventing the wheel.
 
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RNB said:
Perhaps I am just not a trusting person or getting old and bitter. But your not going to compete while asking for what was wrong and right just does not pass my hot air filters.

Coming here asking if their is a market for your area that meets your company mission seems to be coming from an innocent, not a business person.

What is the current market? The TAM?
How many LSRM/ LSRI license holders might there be? Of the potentials, how many have an inkling of interest let alone time and finances?
My read of things is that this only opens up a new market for EAB, an internet search of things says there are 33,000 of these flying in the US.
How many of the 33K would take either class? How many are in your market Mr Non Compete?
How many LS/EAB have an extra 1-5 AMUs available that they would put towards a class vs fuel or plane upgrades?
Add in cost of travel, car rental, and hotel and the number gets much higher.
How many active LSRMs are there that can now access the EAB market ?
Why did previous LSRM orgs get out of the business? https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/november/pilot/maintenance-training-career-gateway
How many others might be thinking of doing the same exact thing, perhaps quietly, without going public online? Won't a 2nd mover quietly stalking do better than third mover?
If this is a money maker, won't those shut down programs, including in CA just spring back open?
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FYI I did the same search and also came up with.... "About 1,000 new amateur-built aircraft are added to the U.S. fleet each year."
 
I got lucky and moved from the waiting list to the active list for the 2day class right here in town... super excited. I would take the 2 week class but having 2 weeks line up with an offering is hard to do.

The biggest reason I want the 2 day class is that I've often thought of buying an older RV4 but I couldn't imagine who would do the maintenance on it for me, even if it is just signing off or overseeing my own work. I don't have resources for that.

So this change is awesome for me, because now I can complete my own condition inspections on a plane if I buy one. I'm thinking of selling my RV14, buying a 4 for fun, and using the funds to finish my 8.
 
RNB said:
And I bet that of those, close to 100% dont need the class!
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I wouldn't assume that, at least not for the power plant part. Building a kit plane is pretty easy, but that doesn't mean that the builder has the knowledge and/or the experience to maintain every system, like the engine. These classes can help fill that knowledge gap for builders and non-builder owners.
 
RNB said:
And I bet that of those, close to 100% dont need the class!
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Bet? Really? Pick almost any wager and I'll take your bet. Easy win.

Among those that go the ELSA route, unless already certified as Repairman or Mechanic they will need the class. The field of ELSA builds is likely to expand, a better wager would be how many years it takes before ELSA is the majority of experimental AW certs issued.
 
I didn't read many of the posts, so I don't know if this has been mentioned.
I asked Vans by email if they were going to offer a two-day class. It sounds like they're thinking about it. Who would be a better source for maintenance on their design?
Contact Vans!
 
RNB said:
Perhaps I am just not a trusting person or getting old and bitter. But your not going to compete while asking for what was wrong and right just does not pass my hot air filters.

Coming here asking if their is a market for your area that meets your company mission seems to be coming from an innocent, not a business person.

What is the current market? The TAM?
How many LSRM/ LSRI license holders might there be? Of the potentials, how many have an inkling of interest let alone time and finances?
My read of things is that this only opens up a new market for EAB, an internet search of things says there are 33,000 of these flying in the US.
How many of the 33K would take either class? How many are in your market Mr Non Compete?
How many LS/EAB have an extra 1-5 AMUs available that they would put towards a class vs fuel or plane upgrades?
Add in cost of travel, car rental, and hotel and the number gets much higher.
How many active LSRMs are there that can now access the EAB market ?
Why did previous LSRM orgs get out of the business? https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/november/pilot/maintenance-training-career-gateway
How many others might be thinking of doing the same exact thing, perhaps quietly, without going public online? Won't a 2nd mover quietly stalking do better than third mover?
If this is a money maker, won't those shut down programs, including in CA just spring back open?
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BNR,

I appreciate the questions. To be upfront, I’m not a business person, I’m just an instructor. My “company” is a community college. Alongside teaching, part of my role is to help develop instructional programs that better serve both our local community and the aviation industry. We go through cycles of self-reflection called "program review", and are often asked to look for ways we can better serve our local community and our industry. We do this in partnership with our High School partners and an industrial Advisory Committee, and LSR training has been a hot topic with both of them lately.

I don’t have a business degree or the first idea how to run a formal market analysis. That’s why I came here, to talk with the largest group of potential customers I could reach easily and see if the idea has merit. This is just part of our "fact-finding" process, really just dipping our toe into the pool.

To answer a couple of your points directly:
  • Our “customers” wouldn’t be current LSRM/LSRI holders, it’s mainly EAB owners who want to learn more about maintaining their airplanes and who see value in investing a little time up front to save some money later or to just feel better "connected" to their airplanes.
  • Because we’re a community college, tuition is extremely low, almost free compared to private training. For LSRI, that’s a 2–3 day investment plus travel and lodging. LSRM would be longer but still very accessible. Just to give you an idea, the 120 hour LSR-M course would run about $400.
  • We don’t need volume to sustain the program. If 10 people in the region wanted LSRI training once a year, we could offer it. If there’s more demand, we’d scale accordingly.
  • Another audience is young people curious about aviation maintenance but not ready to commit to a full two-year, 30-hours-a-week A&P program. A short LSRM course could give them a taste and maybe inspire them to pursue the A&P path later. We have a partnership with some local high schools for aviation elective courses, we offer a careers in aviation course, a Part 107 sUAS course, and private pilot ground school. Maybe we could offer some form of maintenance training as well.
As for how many people that actually means? We don’t know yet. I can work with someone to do a formal market study, but in the meantime it costs nothing to ask here and get a feel for the interest.

This isn’t intended to be a money-maker, that’s not how public colleges operate or are funded. For us, the “payoff” is data: showing that we met a need, that students completed training, and that they earned their certificates. That helps us demonstrate value to the FAA, the industry, and our community. If this program is launched and someone else comes along and offers a similar training program, we just keep offering it until our enrollment drops, then we would scale back or look for another need and focus our attention there.

I may not have answered all of your questions, but I really do appreciate that you raised them, it gives us more to think about as we move forward.

Jason
 
IBRNGAS said:
I've owned my RV-8 for 5 years, unfortunately I'm not the original builder. However I have maintained military aircraft for over 35 years. So, when the new rules came out with MOSAIC it got me excited. Then I started to look for the classes, none to be found.

I think Van's Aircraft would be a terrific resource to host and maybe schedule these classes across the country. As Van's Aircraft owners we obviously trust them for aircraft components, who would be better to trust for our training
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Sport Aviation Specialties Lawrenceville GA. 770-548-1206
 
Auburntsts said:
I wouldn't assume that, at least not for the power plant part. Building a kit plane is pretty easy, but that doesn't mean that the builder has the knowledge and/or the experience to maintain every system, like the engine. These classes can help fill that knowledge gap for builders and non-builder owners.
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N8DAV8R said:
Bet? Really? Pick almost any wager and I'll take your bet. Easy win.

Among those that go the ELSA route, unless already certified as Repairman or Mechanic they will need the class. The field of ELSA builds is likely to expand, a better wager would be how many years it takes before ELSA is the majority of experimental AW certs issued.
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I'm editing and deleting my posts on this topic as they seem to lead to arguing
I dont like living in that space
 
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RNB, please consider the vast number of EAB that are sold to someone other than the builder. Now ownership is the key ingredient, not that you built it yourself. This is the hugest and most welcome change.
 
RNB said:
The overall point, is that there are 1000 new EAB added per year, and if most qualify to work on the plane already, the overall impact on class demand ought be small.

My AI answer on search said there were 60 ELSA in 2020, so yes, very small figure.
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The majority looking for this class would be buyers of used EAB's.... and there are thousands out there now, and many more added each year.
A class like Jason is talking about would serve the west coast well. I think it would be a big benefit to many, even if Van's offers the class near Portland.... that is over 700 miles from Jason's class location.
 
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion so far. It’s clear there’s a lot of interest and also some healthy skepticism. To keep the thread from turning into a long Q&A survey, I’ve put together a short Google Form for anyone who wants to share more detailed input about what would make this training most useful and accessible.

👉 [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...jy9miJYMFoRY6-57kDpxcJ-A/viewform?usp=preview]

Your feedback there will help us better understand needs and logistics without cluttering the forum.
For discussion here, I’d just ask you to consider a few general points:
  • Would you personally find value in LSRI/LSRM training if it were available in Central California?
  • Do you think location (Reedley/Fresno area) is reasonably accessible for folks in the region?
  • Are there particular barriers (time, travel, cost) you think would keep people from attending?
Thanks again for all the input. It’s been really valuable to hear different perspectives. I’ll share back some of the results later once we get enough responses.
 
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JasonDRV4Me said:
I am new to this forum. But I came here specifically to gather some information about this topic.

I’m exploring the idea of offering Light Sport Repairman—Maintenance and Light Sport Repairman—Inspection training here in Central California. Before I go too far down the planning road, I wanted to reach out to the VAF community to gauge whether this is a possible market for our school.

  1. Is there a need?
    • Would builders/owners in this region (or nearby states) be interested in taking either the LSRI course (annual condition inspection authority for your own E-LSA or EAB aircraft) or the LSRM course (broader privileges for maintenance and inspections on S-LSAs and E-LSAs)?
    • If you’ve wanted this training but found travel, cost, or scheduling to be a barrier, would a Central CA location help?
  2. What would you want from such a course?
    • Preferred course length/schedule (e.g., one intensive week vs. weekends spread out).
    • Location factors (proximity to airports, lodging, transportation).
    • Instructional style (hands-on labs, real aircraft examples, structured classroom, etc.).
    • Other features that would make the training worthwhile for you.

I’d love to hear from those who have taken these courses elsewhere—what worked well, and what could be improved?

At this stage, I’m just gathering input to see if the demand justifies moving forward. Your feedback will really help shape whether this becomes a reality and how I design it to best serve the community.
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I would be very interested. It doesn’t need to be only weekends for me. Hands on sounds great. Central ca could work for me as I’m in southern Nevada. But if you want to put one on here at KBVU I could host people at my place and there are cute hotels here.
 
RNB said:
Oh, I agree. But I was challenged on the new EAB statement I made (I bet near 100% of new EAB built don't need a class), and that is what I was responding to.

I think we have an exciting few years ahead.
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I re-read your original post and still think that you’re assuming too much with respect to close to everyone that builds is qualified simply by virtue of building. Just because they successfully put tab a in slot b and received an AWC doesn’t make it so. IMO maybe 20 years ago but not today. I know of a number guys that received their Repairman’s Cert simply by applying for it. I had to sit through a 2 hr interview with a FSDO inspector , 1.5 of which was over the engine and various sub-systems. That said this class isn’t targeted to new builders anyway as a number of us have stated. YMMV.
 
RNB said:
Perhaps I am just not a trusting person or getting old and bitter. But your not going to compete while asking for what was wrong and right just does not pass my hot air filters.

Coming here asking if their is a market for your area that meets your company mission seems to be coming from an innocent, not a business person.

What is the current market? The TAM?
How many LSRM/ LSRI license holders might there be? Of the potentials, how many have an inkling of interest let alone time and finances?
My read of things is that this only opens up a new market for EAB, an internet search of things says there are 33,000 of these flying in the US.
How many of the 33K would take either class? How many are in your market Mr Non Compete?
How many LS/EAB have an extra 1-5 AMUs available that they would put towards a class vs fuel or plane upgrades?
Add in cost of travel, car rental, and hotel and the number gets much higher.
How many active LSRMs are there that can now access the EAB market ?
Why did previous LSRM orgs get out of the business? https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/november/pilot/maintenance-training-career-gateway
How many others might be thinking of doing the same exact thing, perhaps quietly, without going public online? Won't a 2nd mover quietly stalking do better than third mover?
If this is a money maker, won't those shut down programs, including in CA just spring back open?
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Maybe you ought to offer to help Jason since your seem very proficient at analysis. I appreciate that he is hoping to offer some of these badly needed courses.
 
JasonDRV4Me said:
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion so far. It’s clear there’s a lot of interest and also some healthy skepticism. To keep the thread from turning into a long Q&A survey, I’ve put together a short Google Form for anyone who wants to share more detailed input about what would make this training most useful and accessible.

👉 [https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...jy9miJYMFoRY6-57kDpxcJ-A/viewform?usp=preview]

Your feedback there will help us better understand needs and logistics without cluttering the forum.
For discussion here, I’d just ask you to consider a few general points:
  • Would you personally find value in LSRI/LSRM training if it were available in Central California?
  • Do you think location (Reedley/Fresno area) is reasonably accessible for folks in the region?
  • Are there particular barriers (time, travel, cost) you think would keep people from attending?
Thanks again for all the input. It’s been really valuable to hear different perspectives. I’ll share back some of the results later once we get enough responses.
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A very worthwhile survey hidden in a forum.... I am bringing this back to the top so maybe more will respond to his Google Survey.
 
campipilot said:
Maybe you ought to offer to help Jason since your seem very proficient at analysis. I appreciate that he is hoping to offer some of these badly needed cou
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RNB said:
I'm editing and deleting my posts on this topic as they seem to lead to arguing
I dont like living in that space
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RNB,

I appreciate your posts and your perspective. You don't know me from Adam and I am sure your point of view is shared by others as well. A little back and forth is expected in these forums, but I appreciate that you were the first one to reply and show me an angle I was not even thinking about. Stick around and keep in the discussion.
 
gasman said:
A very worthwhile survey hidden in a forum.... I am bringing this back to the top so maybe more will respond to his Google Survey.
Click to expand...
Is there a place on this forum better suited for a survey? I am new here and this was the first active discussion on this topic I found.
 
JasonDRV4Me said:
Is there a place on this forum better suited for a survey? I am new here and this was the first active discussion on this topic I found.
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This thread has a good title. I think you are good here. Maybe Doug could respond to your question.
 
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