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Turbotech Turbine??

S

SpiderChan

I'm New Here
Hey guys! Just joined after watching a video on the French company “Turbotech” and wanted your input on something like this on a -10. Would any of you be interested in something like this if it was offered as a complete firewall forward solution?? I mean if it’s close to 300hp and roughly the same fuel burn, why not have a 250 oil change interval and an estimated 4000 hour TBO? Plus the reliability of a turbine..

Check out the video of them I saw from OSH ‘25 and I wanna hear all your thoughts!


The Best!
 
They have higher power versions, but no one believes we'll see them in our lifetime. And I doubt insurance will be spectacular for any number of reasons... Unfortunately
 
aadamson said:
They have higher power versions, but no one believes we'll see them in our lifetime. And I doubt insurance will be spectacular for any number of reasons... Unfortunately
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You really think insurance would be more by just adding a turbine? It’s not like performance will be all that drastic of a change if it’s similar horsepower, right? I’ve flown behind pt-6s for a while, they’re way simpler to operate especially with this being fadec controlled. As to seeing them in our lifetime, I’m always an optimist! The smaller engines are already in some LSAs, you don’t think they’re close to the bigger version?
 
SpiderChan said:
You really think insurance would be more by just adding a turbine? It’s not like performance will be all that drastic of a change if it’s similar horsepower, right? I’ve flown behind pt-6s for a while, they’re way simpler to operate especially with this being fadec controlled. As to seeing them in our lifetime, I’m always an optimist! The smaller engines are already in some LSAs, you don’t think they’re close to the bigger version?
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It's more to do with the cost of overhaul on over torque or a hot start, etc. Maint is going to be considerable more expensive and that will drive loss in the insurance market as well.
 
aadamson said:
It's more to do with the cost of overhaul on over torque or a hot start, etc. Maint is going to be considerable more expensive and that will drive loss in the insurance market as well.
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Well insurance probably wouldn’t protect against hot starts, that’s pilot error. Right? At least that’s how I view it 😂 what mx will there be? I think a lot less mx on this vs a piston engine (my -7A has been down for a few months and can’t figure out why, fuel related probably, but I digress…) they’re saying 250 hours between oil changes, more time to get up and go and not have downtime due to routine mx of a 50 hour oil change on an ICE. I guess we don’t really know what the mx will be like until they’re into the hands of the general public. If they’re super high mx, then please forget this post ever existed haha. But from my experience with turbines, they basically require zero mx until you have to do a hot section overhaul. IO-540 for example we’ll say a complete overhaul is ~$50k. Usually not this much either but if you had to replace it all. At a 2000 hr TBO that’s ~$25/hr. If they’re getting the 4000 hr TBO with this and it costs whatever the engine is new (~$200k is my guess this figure hasn’t been published yet) that’s $50/hr. Again, that’s assuming we have to replace everything. Yes, it’s double the cost, but for only an extra $25/hr you get the reliability of a turbine that can run avgas or Jet-A…still seems like a win
 
Given the fact that they actually have some of these flying and showing real world numbers to be very close to piston engine fuel burn, I would certainly be interested.
I am happy with my 10 and wouldn't change a thing but I think the 300 hp version will have huge potential in the experimental market.
The engine and accessories would be lighter than an LYC 390-EX and certainly lighter than an IO-540.
Like many of the promised new turbines, Turbotech may very well end up on the "would have been nice" graveyard for whatever reason.

They have higher power versions, but no one believes we'll see them in our lifetime.
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I hate to agree with you but I have been suckered down that rabbit hole before and most if not all those turbine promises have vanished.
Maybe this one will succeed, best of luck to Turbotech.
 
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aadamson said:
It's more to do with the cost of overhaul on over torque or a hot start, etc. Maint is going to be considerable more expensive and that will drive loss in the insurance market as well.
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My insurance company has absolutely no idea what engine is in my 10 and never asked. My registration with the FAA just says gas reciprocating and have no idea if the insurance company looks at that. My insurance was issued before the FAA registration was completed.
 
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Turbines in small GA planes driven by low hour drivers are a recipe for disaster! They require different handling and can be destroyed in a blink of an eye with an associated chq book repair cost equivalent to putting man on the s Moon😂
 
Capt said:
Turbines in small GA planes driven by low hour drivers are a recipe for disaster! They require different handling and can be destroyed in a blink of an eye with an associated chq book repair cost equivalent to putting man on the s Moon😂
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FADEC should prevent you from running outside safe parameters, right? For example, the entire start sequence on this turbine is automated. No chance for hot start by user error, I presume.
 
We actually do not know if this turbine will be as reliable as say a Pratt & Whitney…just because it is a turbo prop does not automatically make it more reliable.

Look at the gear box failures on the “reliable” diesel engine pistons flying around from one major manufacturer or the more boutique versions for auto conversions.

There is more to it than pulling from a reliable proven design and down scaling it.

At the same time I would love to try one on my plane.
 
Capt said:
Turbines in small GA planes driven by low hour drivers are a recipe for disaster! They require different handling and can be destroyed in a blink of an eye with an associated chq book repair cost equivalent to putting man on the s Moon😂
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Maybe, but I don't think so although that's an unqualified opinion. I got my first flight at the controls with a turboprop last week-- a whopping 0.5 in a Walter 601 powered E-AB aircraft. The operation from startup to shut down wasn't any more complicated than a typical turbo-equipped Lycoming/Continental, in fact in some ways it was easier. That said, it is significantly different, and proper training would be required, because screwing something up by not taking the proper action will, as you noted, be painfully expensive.
 
Majorpayne317641 said:
We actually do not know if this turbine will be as reliable as say a Pratt & Whitney…just because it is a turbo prop does not automatically make it more reliable.
Look at the gear box failures on the “reliable” diesel engine pistons flying around from one major manufacturer or the more boutique versions for auto conversions.
There is more to it than pulling from a reliable proven design and down scaling it.
At the same time I would love to try one on my plane.
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While I agree with your analysis in general, It's not exactly an "apples to apples" comparison. Turbines are MUCH smoother than reciprocating "diesel" engines. Diesel engines put a huge "pounding" load on PSRUs.
 
There is more to it than pulling from a reliable proven design and down scaling it.
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I agree but this is not a scaled down version of anything in existence according to the posted Video.

What makes this Turbine attempt different is the fact that many of their examples are flying with great success.
Also, probably more important than anything else according to the spokesman in one of their interview/videos.
They have the financial backing of Safran, with a 100 Billion plus capitalization rate and deeply rooted in the aerospace industry.
If this succeeds, Lycoming's 2 year backlog and waiting times will be a thing of the past.
 
N427EF said:
I agree but this is not a scaled down version of anything in existence according to the posted Video.

What makes this Turbine attempt different is the fact that many of their examples are flying with great success.
Also, probably more important than anything else according to the spokesman in one of their interview/videos.
They have the financial backing of Safran, with a 100 Billion plus capitalization rate and deeply rooted in the aerospace industry.
If this succeeds, Lycoming's 2 year backlog and waiting times will be a thing of the past.
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Preface the below with: I am all for its success. I want one if I could afford one.

You can’t cheat physics. We are scaling down larger turboprop engines and this becomes a problem because we can’t just reduce SFC (thrust specific fuel consumption) and fuel burn to an infinitely smaller value just because we have a smaller engine (think scaling down from big turbine to a baby turbine) due to the Reynolds Number effect. Fluid mechanics still applies here. That’s why some designers have attempted to use recoperators. I hope it gets figured out.

Yes this paper in the link below is old but it explains in way more depth than I ever could. It’s a source I’m citing.

Is it possible? Yes! But it’s also not a proven design unless you’ve flown it thousands of hours to draw statistically significant reliability data.

 
Turbines. I love 'em. I would have one tomorrow if there was an affordable solution. Smooth, powerful, cool as... imagine the chicks I could pull... :cool:

I've just rolled over 23 years working as a Field Representative for a turbine engine manufacturer and if there's one thing I've learned it's that there is no such thing as a cheap turbine engine. I'm impressed to learn Safran are backing this project and from an R&D perspective this is a good thing because Safran are not only big investors in technology but a recognised leader in the industry. They have some truly cool ideas. But no matter which turbine you chose to install you're only one event away from buying the equivalent of a small house to fix it.

Don't despair though... changes are in the wind. Hybrid technology is being heavily researched at present, as is electric flight and other options. We're always just one break-through away from a revolution. Enjoy the "essence du Avgas" for just a wee bit longer...
 
planenutz said:
Turbines. I love 'em. I would have one tomorrow if there was an affordable solution. Smooth, powerful, cool as... imagine the chicks I could pull... :cool:

I've just rolled over 23 years working as a Field Representative for a turbine engine manufacturer and if there's one thing I've learned it's that there is no such thing as a cheap turbine engine. I'm impressed to learn Safran are backing this project and from an R&D perspective this is a good thing because Safran are not only big investors in technology but a recognised leader in the industry. They have some truly cool ideas. But no matter which turbine you chose to install you're only one event away from buying the equivalent of a small house to fix it.

Don't despair though... changes are in the wind. Hybrid technology is being heavily researched at present, as is electric flight and other options. We're always just one break-through away from a revolution. Enjoy the "essence du Avgas" for just a wee bit longer...
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While I wouldn't disagree with the cost aspect, with the current (and increasing) price of an ancient tech lycoming, the turbine is looking better and better price wise. Even the $115k DH is looking more "reasonable"...lol
 
AeroEngineer said:
I wonder what happened with this project:

www.kitplanes.com

Turbine-Powered RV-10

New light turboprop engines are coming to Experimental/Amateur-Built aviation. By Amy Laboda.
www.kitplanes.com www.kitplanes.com

avweb.com

Video: Diemech's Small Turbine Engine

Original, Exclusive Videos from AVweb |Reader-Submitted & Viral Videos
avweb.com avweb.com
Click to expand...

Or this one... https://turb.aero/

TurbAero's RV7T - Turbine RV7A

Hello everyone. TurbAero will be using this thread to detail the construction and modification of our RV7A kit to accept the TurbAero Talon 200hp turboprop engine. We have decided to designate our aircraft as an RV7T with the “T” standing for Turbine. We shall also be publicising the build...
vansairforce.net
aeroturb rv7.jpg
 
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