Mosaic Rule and Repairman Certificate

[RV-9erA]

It looks like the key point is "performance based" training and testing. Much like earning a Motorcycle Endorsement in most states now, you must first pass a written test (the "pink" copy) and also pass the practical riding test (the "yellow" copy) or pass the MSF written and practical tests and earn an MSF certification. Many riders don't pass the first time and need additional training, and some just end-up riding three wheelers. I'm betting that the same goes for earning an LSRI certification!

To obtain a Light Sport Repairman certificate, individuals must:

1. Complete an FAA-accepted course: This course is performance-based rather than a fixed duration, and for an LSRI, it is a 16-hour course.
   
   
2. Pass a test: After completing the course, you will need to pass a test.
   
   
3. Submit paperwork to the Flight Standards District Office (FSDO): This final step is required to show your paperwork to the Flight Standards District Office to get your certificate.

 

[RV7A Flyer]

I'm seriously thinking of taking the longer 150 hr LSA course that cost about $4,500 (plus travel, lodging, food). It is only offered 4 times a year at the school nearest me (420 miles). I am after completion of course, for all intents and purposes an equivalent to an A&P and IA for LSA's and EAB's! The longer course does not restrict you to a plane you own. You can work on anyone's LSA or EAB? Really?

Please, for the love of all things decent and holy, learn the proper phrasing and USE IT.

ANYONE can "work on" ANY EAB. ANYONE can do any kind of maintenance, repair, upgrade, replacement, etc., to an EAB.

The ONLY thing that requires any kind of certificate, be it Repairman-Experimental Amateur Built, A&P (not IA for EABs), this new LSR-whatever, is the (ready for it?) ANNUAL CONDITION INSPECTION.

Every time you post and use incorrect wording, you muddy the waters. Most of us around here know the difference and can ignore your errors, but some newer builders/owners may not. So please...be more careful in your phrasing.

 

[jackking123]

Please, for the love of all things decent and holy, learn the proper phrasing and USE IT.

ANYONE can "work on" ANY EAB. ANYONE can do any kind of maintenance, repair, upgrade, replacement, etc., to an EAB.

The ONLY thing that requires any kind of certificate, be it Repairman-Experimental Amateur Built, A&P (not IA for EABs), this new LSR-whatever, is the (ready for it?) ANNUAL CONDITION INSPECTION.

Every time you post and use incorrect wording, you muddy the waters. Most of us around here know the difference and can ignore your errors, but some newer builders/owners may not. So please...be more careful in your phrasing.

Please don't evoke "Holy" and calm down, everything is OK.

I know trust me, for 40 yrs I know, "ANYONE" can work on an airplane. But not true, not anyone. Only ppl with a pilots certificate, and they must sign off the work with said pilot cert #. I have stated this a few times. I don't think I said different.

"This new LSR-whatever, is the (ready for it?) ANNUAL CONDITION INSPECTION."

Well you have a way with "whatever" words as well. First LSR, actually LSRI is not new. It has been around since 2004. Trust me. Yes I know what a condition inspection is since I built my first RV in early 90's. Said it 5 times.

"ANNUAL CONDITION INSPECTION", just Condition inspection would be fine. We all know it is done every 12 mo. I'd kindly suggest not to use ANNUAL because "muddy water" confusion. "Annuals" are for 14 CFR Part 23 aircraft. EAB's have condition inspections. Yes people say annual condition inspection. That is not correct.

For the record "condition inspection" is found in the Operating Limitations of the aircraft, not a regulation so to speak. FAR 14 CFR Part 43 itself doesn't generally apply to experimental aircraft, Appendix D to Part 43 provides the scope and detail for a condition inspection, you should use these standards for the inspection.

The course is called Repairman Inspection Certificate (LSRI), 2 day course. The other is Repairman-Maintenance rating, 15 day course. Rainbow Aviation is in my neck of the woods. I know people that have taken both. As I whined about I was not impressed with the training one of my students got to maintain his RV-12 E-LSA he built.

LSAI course for 2 days is not enough in my opinion for the wide variations of EAB's, some of which have controllable props, retractable gear, NON LSA engines. Conjecture on my part FAA and LOCAL FSDO will be gate keepers. Getting Repairman authority under MOSAIC for a spacific EAB aircraft (you did not build), with the LSAI course, may not be a rubber stamp. I expect this will get some love in the future (meaning Administrator oversight).

This LSRI course is not new, been around since Sept 2024. The BIG news is it has been expanded to include EAB's. To do a Condition inspection on and EAB you did not build required an A&P to sign off (but you could to the work). Period end of story clear. Where did I say different?

"Every time you post and use incorrect wording, you muddy the waters."

Every time? No true. Me think thou protest ye too much and exaggerate. Sorry you are upset with poor wording, but I said it right many times before and since. Really. I hope you forgive me for any omissions or errors.

The waters are MUDDY because Mosaic took the sport pilot/LSA categories created 21 yrs ago, originally a carve out and sperate from Private/EAB/builder Repairman/Part 23 aircraft, blending it, which is the muddy part.

It will be sorted out. "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it" kind of thing. The people that made and approved this ruling are clearly way smarter, know aviation really well, better than you and I. Trust them. FAA is here to help. I hope it does not affect safety. Bottom line we are responsible for safety of flight, PIC and all that good stuff. I have a B737 type rating, and the MAX tragedy is an example of sometimes, FAA approving things it should not. If you see issues please report it to FAA or your Congressman or Senator, good, bad or indifferent. We all have a part in this, not helpless bystanders with no agency. Safety is bottom line. Do the right thing and if in doubt call the FSDO, EAA, AOPA and make sure. If you get 3 different answers, stop. Ha ha.

 

[RV7A Flyer]

Please don't evoke "Holy" and calm down, everything is OK.

I know trust me, for 40 yrs I know, "ANYONE" can work on an airplane. But not true, not anyone. Only ppl with a pilots certificate, and they must sign off the work with said pilot cert #. I have stated this a few times. I don't think I said different.

And once again, for EABs, you are 100% dead wrong.

You don't need a pilot's certificate, nor an A&P, nor a Repairman's certificate, nor a driver's license, nor *any other license, certificate, qualification, degree, class, experience, expertise, training or rating* to work on an Experimental-Amateur Built aircraft. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

 

[ve0kog]

IBTL!

 

[RV-9erA]

Please don't evoke "Holy" and calm down, everything is OK.

I know trust me, for 40 yrs I know, "ANYONE" can work on an airplane. But not true, not anyone. Only ppl with a pilots certificate, and they must sign off the work with said pilot cert #. I have stated this a few times. I don't think I said different.

EAB condition inspections fall under Part 43 Appendix D, and that's the only item that falls under Part 43 for EAB's. But, a condition inspection logbook sign-off must come from an FAA certified Repairman who built 51-percent of the aircraft, or an A&P, or under MOSAIC an LSRI if that person owns the aircraft. Otherwise, anyone can actually perform maintenance on any EAB. I've held a Repairman certificate for 21-years and performed that many condition inspections. However, it doesn't mean that "any person" is actually qualified to perform maintenance on an EAB--that's really up to the owner and person that signs-off the condition inspection.

 

[lr172]

And once again, for EABs, you are 100% dead wrong.

You don't need a pilot's certificate, nor an A&P, nor a Repairman's certificate, nor a driver's license, nor *any other license, certificate, qualification, degree, class, experience, expertise, training or rating* to work on an Experimental-Amateur Built aircraft. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

Forgot to mention that there is also no requirement to sign off that work completed.

 

[RNB]

EAB condition inspections fall under Part 43 Appendix D, and that's the only item that falls under Part 43 for EAB's. But, a condition inspection logbook sign-off must come from an FAA certified Repairman who built 51-percent of the aircraft, or an A&P, or under MOSAIC an LSRI if that person owns the aircraft. Otherwise, anyone can actually perform maintenance on any EAB. I've held a Repairman certificate for 21-years and performed that many condition inspections. However, it doesn't mean that "any person" is actually qualified to perform maintenance on an EAB--that's really up to the owner and person that signs-off the condition inspection.

FAR 43 does not apply to experimental aircraft as it directly says so in the first few lines.

Condition Inspection | EAA

Condition Inspection | EAA

www.eaa.org

 

[Dugaru]

But, an annual condition inspection logbook sign-off must come from an FAA certified Repairman (i.e. a person with a 104 certificate) who built 51-percent of the aircraft, or an A&P, or under MOSAIC an LSRI (i.e. a person with a 107b certificate) if that person owns the aircraft, or by a person with a so-called LSRM (a 107c certificate) regardless of ownership.

Edited for clarity, and the sake of my personal OCD-inspired mission to improve the FAA’s poor terminology.

Standard caveats apply (“I could be wrong”).

 

[RV-9erA]

FAR 43 does not apply to experimental aircraft as it directly says so in the first few lines.

Condition Inspection | EAA

Condition Inspection | EAA

www.eaa.org

Call your local FSDO officer and ask him. The logbook entry for an EAB condition inspection should read as follow "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (date completed) in accordance with the scope and detail to Part 43 Appendix D and found to be in condition for safe operation". This came (verbatim) right from the Seattle FSDO officer visit that I had in order to get my Repairman's Certificate. Please tell us what your qualifications are to say otherwise. Do you hold an EAB Repairman's Certification yourself? Part 43 Appendix D applies to both EAB condition inspections and annual inspections.

 

[RV-9erA]

Edited for clarity, and the sake of my personal OCD-inspired mission to improve the FAA’s poor terminology.

Standard caveats apply (“I could be wrong”).

Dugaru--I don't think it's a good idea to edit other member's original comment as you have. But, I believe your edit to my original comment should have actually been LSRI not LSRM--a person would need the inspection authorization (LSRI) to actually sign-off a condition inspection for an EAB if they don't hold a Repairman's Certificate or A&P.

 

[N8DAV8R]

Dugaru--I don't think it's a good idea to edit other member's original comment as you have. But, I believe your edit to my original comment should have actually been LSRI not LSRM--a person would need the inspection authorization (LSRI) to actually sign-off a condition inspection for an EAB if they don't hold a Repairman's Certificate or A&P.

Either of the Light Sport Repairman (certificate) ratings (I or M) allow for signing off the condition inspection of a EAB. The Maintenance rating is more broadly permissive, with the authorization applying to any EAB/SLSA/ELSA.

You may be putting too much emphasis on the description of the I(inspection) rating and thinking that means it's 'the one that allows inspections'. That's not the case. It's a common mistake because the FAA chose strange names for each, but you should understand that in the context used here either can perform a CI on an EAB with the M rating allowing one to do it on non-owned aircraft and to also charge for it.

 

[Dugaru]

Dugaru--I don't think it's a good idea to edit other member's original comment as you have. But, I believe your edit to my original comment should have actually been LSRI not LSRM--a person would need the inspection authorization (LSRI) to actually sign-off a condition inspection for an EAB if they don't hold a Repairman's Certificate or A&P.

It was sort of tongue in cheek - I meant no offense.

But I think I was right. The 107c certificate (the so-called “LSRM”) is actually a “more powerful” rating than the 107b (“LSRI”), despite the name.

 

[RV-9erA]

you should understand that in the context used here either can perform a CI on an EAB with the M rating allowing one to do it on non-owned aircraft and to also charge for it.

I haven't been unable to find any reference to anything other than applying to owned EAB aircraft. Can you point to that refence in MOSAIC please?

 

[lr172]

Part 43 Appendix D applies to both EAB condition inspections and annual inspections.

Suggest reading the first page of Part 43 as well as the long version of the std Op Lim's CI verbiage.

Will help a little:

(b) This part does not apply to—

(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft;

 

[N8DAV8R]

I haven't been unable to find any reference to anything other than applying to owned EAB aircraft. Can you point to that refence in MOSAIC please?

65.107, (b) and (c)

 

[RV-9erA]

Suggest reading the first page of Part 43 as well as the long version of the std Op Lim's CI verbiage.

Will help a little:

FAA Part 43 Appendix D does not directly apply to experimental aircraft, but it is the required standard for an experimental aircraft's annual condition inspection. If you don't follow this standard you're not returning the aircraft to safe operation--that's the caveat the FSDO officer made to me and required me to follow and sign-off on my conditions inspections. Do you hold an Repairman's Certification yourself?

 

[RV-9erA]

65.107, (b) and (c)

You mean--"charge money" for a condition inspection logbook sign-off on an aircraft you don't own yourself? I understood MOSAIC applied to aircraft you own.

 

[Ironflight]

Hey guys….we now have about four folks arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin with each other, and there is more misinformation preserved in this thread than anywhere on social media - its not even possible to back and edit it because there are so many incorrect statements embedded in multiple posts. It’s also getting more uncivil. I think the thread has run its course, and anyone that refers to it for “truth” in the future does so at their own risk.