Custom Flap Switch

[jessicas_other_half]

This is a custom question for Jessica Cox, the armless pilot, and her forthcoming RV-10. If you haven't heard about her project, take a quick look here: www.theimpossibleairplane.com.

Jessica's panel uses the Aerosport 310 carbon fiber panel with instruments from AFS. We chose the panel because it allows Jessica to brace her foot against the center of the panel where it's lifted out. It's a lot easier for her to adjust the knobs of an AF-6600 with her foot braced, especially in turbulence. However, that means her right foot (left foot is controlling pitch and roll) travels right past the flap switch when she reaches for the panel in a standard 310 layout. It would be too easy, especially after a long day of flying, to accidentally hit it and extend the flaps.

Has there been any unique flap switch designs? My understanding is that the flap switch shape is unique so that you don't accidentally use it or accidentally use the wrong switch. I'd like to follow the same logic if there's something out there that already exists or could be 3D printed with a lower profile.

I imagine there's also the option to simply install or print guards along the side to prevent easy activation.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts or suggestions!

 

[wirejock]

I hae been following. It's awesome.
Her design is unique. Why not break the traditional mold and put the flap switch where it works for her and with a switch handle that also makes the most sense for her. Or maybe some things are not allowed to be changed.

I admit I know nothing about how ergonomics are designed for her, but maybe this is one of those times to build out side the box.
Please keep us posted. So exciting.

 

[lr172]

I hae been following. It's awesome.
Her design is unique. Why not break the traditional mold and put the flap switch where it works for her and with a switch handle that also makes the most sense for her. Or maybe some things are not allowed to be changed.

I admit I know nothing about how ergonomics are designed for her, but maybe this is one of those times to build out side the box.
Please keep us posted. So exciting.

I agree. Extending flaps at 170 knots is not good. However, If you make the switch more difficult to use in order to prevent accidental activation, you create a new problem. Go arounds are a busy and mentally challenging affair, especially if due to problems landing. You want an easily accessible flap retract option.

Better to find a more appropriate location for the switch.

I would be thinking about each situation where things happen fast and pilots tend to make adrenaline mistakes. Have seen pilots with all arms and legs grab the wrong switch or knob in panic situations and get themselves in trouble.

This summer we had a guy crash 1/2 mile from the runway. One tank empty, the other half full. We want things as easy as possible when stuff hits the fan to improve the odds of doing what needs to be done.

 

[lr172]

I agree. Extending flaps at 170 knots is not good. However, If you make the switch more difficult to use in order to prevent accidental activation, you create a new problem. Go arounds are a busy and mentally challenging affair, especially if due to problems landing. You want an easily accessible flap retract option.

Better to find a more appropriate location for the switch.

I would be thinking about each situation where things happen fast and pilots tend to make adrenaline mistakes. Have seen pilots with all arms and legs grab the wrong switch or knob in panic situations and get themselves in trouble.

This summer we had a guy crash 1/2 mile from the runway. One tank empty, the other half full. We want things as easy as possible when stuff hits the fan to improve the odds of doing what needs to be done.

If you are committed to the current location, a rocker switch could be a decent substitute. Couldn’t easily hit it like a large toggle with a glancing bolw on the way to the radio. Just need to be sure it isn’t near her heal, where she must plant it for leverage. In that case it is no better

 

[tom_AZ]

Patrick—

Glad to hear things are progressing on the build.

U-shaped switch guards would seem likely to help if the potential inadvertent activation would be from a lateral “sweeping” foot movement. Beyond that, if you’re concerned about activation in cruise how about a switch where the activation is airspeed-limited?

 

[rockyfatcat]

Hi! I have a question. I understand she is manipulating flight controls with one foot, why not move some of these switches nearer to her other foot and use the dash to display the position? On/off up/down/degrees deployed.

I realize that might require 2 sets of switches & controls, one for her and another for the other pilot. But a momentary switch will accept either input. Critical switches could have a split switch requiring both halves to be depressed.

But already she is kinda limited for extended flying the Ercoupe with her feet up in her face. Why not move at least some of those switches where she can manipulate them with the not manipulating the flight controls foot. The spacing of those foot controlled switches could be a little further apart than what is usually normal for an aircraft to prevent some of what she is trying to work around.

Thinking about it just a little further. I have a stick grip that has 5 functions. She could have foot controls that have all those function and even the have ability to remotely dial in frequencies without having to lift her foot up to the dash and play contortionist. Just a thought.

BTW I sat next to Jessica at the Ercoupe owners dinner at Oshkosh in 2024.

 

[DRMA]

Patrick—

Beyond that, if you’re concerned about activation in cruise how about a switch where the activation is airspeed-limited?

Note that the Garmin G3X system has the ability to configure for maximum flap extension speeds. Perhaps the AFS/Dynon system has this feature as well? If not, perhaps a circuit could be designed to take an airspeed output from the PFD, and use that to prevent flaps extension above the Vans recommended speed?

Just a thought.

 

[jessicas_other_half]

U-shaped switch guards would seem likely to help if the potential inadvertent activation would be from a lateral “sweeping” foot movement. Beyond that, if you’re concerned about activation in cruise how about a switch where the activation is airspeed-limited?

Good point. Doesn't TCW make something like that for trim? We have some electrical engineers and a programmer on our team, but I might still be hesitant to do a DIY custom mod of something like that. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[jessicas_other_half]

If you are committed to the current location, a rocker switch could be a decent substitute. Couldn’t easily hit it like a large toggle with a glancing bolw on the way to the radio. Just need to be sure it isn’t near her heal, where she must plant it for leverage. In that case it is no better

Thank you all for the input in design and location! The team at AFS found a low-profile tab that we want to start with. It should give the tactile feel to ensure she reaches for the right switch for flaps without being bumped. The "standard" flap switch location is already recessed, so that helps too. We'll be ready to swap it for something or add guards if there's an indication of risk.

 

[jessicas_other_half]

Hi! I have a question. I understand she is manipulating flight controls with one foot, why not move some of these switches nearer to her other foot and use the dash to display the position? On/off up/down/degrees deployed.

I realize that might require 2 sets of switches & controls, one for her and another for the other pilot. But a momentary switch will accept either input. Critical switches could have a split switch requiring both halves to be depressed.

Yes! We're thinking along those same lines, especially for the autopilot. The foot controls aren't finished yet, especially the brakes. I'm hesitant to throw stuff down there now, and then need to move them because something else will get in the way. AFS/Dynon makes it easy to add those controls all around, and we do plan to play with it.

I'm picturing a little angled piece of aluminum coming out of the right side of the foot well to hold the different key pads/switches so she can see what she's reaching for. What do you picture in your head?

 

[rockyfatcat]

I would suggest a couple stirrups. Meaning a place to set her heel when she for example uses the functions of the stick grip.

Slide over 6 inches and ‘toggles in’ (dials in) the frequency. By setting her heel in a stirrup she could have an array of several switches pertinent to that control. It would require muscle memory or a cheat sheet to recognise what switch is where.



Slide her foot over 6 inches into the next stirrup and access the next group like the autopilot controls.

I think the more she can do without Lifting her foot up to the dash, the happier she’ll be.

 

[wirejock]

I would suggest a couple stirrups. Meaning a place to set her heel when she for example uses the functions of the stick grip.

Slide over 6 inches and ‘toggles in’ (dials in) the frequency. By setting her heel in a stirrup she could have an array of several switches pertinent to that control. It would require muscle memory or a cheat sheet to recognise what switch is where.

<snip>

Slide her foot over 6 inches into the next stirrup and access the next group like the autopilot controls.

I think the more she can do without Lifting her foot up to the dash, the happier she’ll be.

I have Skyview HDX and an AFS ACM.
If the panel is HDX most functions can be initiated by touch so she should be ok with navigation. The ACM Skyview page has touch areas for flap control. The problem is bumps. It's difficult to be precise in turbulence.

I agree with RockyFatCat. However, some controls need to be near each other. Flaps near Throttle, Mix, Prop & Boost Pump. Lights together. Trim on or near the controls.

Put together a cardboard cockpit with all the components double stick taped in place. I have most components from the HDX panel down to toggle switches as jpegs. Happy to share the files. I printed and laminated them for my pretending. I sat and moved them around making airplane noises till the flow seemed logical for me.

Have her sit in a chair In front and experiment with layout. Pretend the various phases of flight from preflight to shutdown. Once you have a work flow and location, then experiment with types of switches.

You may be suprised the variety of switches available. If you can imagine it, some manufacturer probably makes it.

I bet a control joystick like an electric mobility chair would work great for a trim hat control. Flap control could be done with a roller type control like a computer track ball. Just thinking outside the box.

There probably should be a duplicate set of traditional controls for the co-pilot seat.

 

[rockyfatcat]

I have Skyview HDX and an AFS ACM.
If the panel is HDX most functions can be initiated by touch so she should be ok with navigation. The ACM Skyview page has touch areas for flap control. The problem is bumps. It's difficult to be precise in turbulence.

I agree with RockyFatCat. However, some controls need to be near each other. Flaps near Throttle, Mix, Prop & Boost Pump. Lights together. Trim on or near the controls.

Put together a cardboard cockpit with all the components double stick taped in place. I have most components from the HDX panel down to toggle switches as jpegs. Happy to share the files. I printed and laminated them for my pretending. I sat and moved them around making airplane noises till the flow seemed logical for me.

Have her sit in a chair In front and experiment with layout. Pretend the various phases of flight from preflight to shutdown. Once you have a work flow and location, then experiment with types of switches.

You may be suprised the variety of switches available. If you can imagine it, some manufacturer probably makes it.

I bet a control joystick like an electric mobility chair would work great for a trim hat control. Flap control could be done with a roller type control like a computer track ball. Just thinking outside the box.

There probably should be a duplicate set of traditional controls for the co-pilot seat.

I can preset degrees of deployment on my electric flap motor. So there are options.

As far as a trim switch. I’m a fan of the dual switch used on commercial jets.


Like we use a stick grip. She needs that series of controls available for her immediate control.

Trim Switch CA3112-G | Aircraft Spruce ®

Trim Switch CA3112-G Replace your old S-Tec trim switch with Cygnet's new direct replacement switch.

www.aircraftspruce.com

 

[wirejock]

I can preset degrees of deployment on my electric flap motor. So there are options.

As far as a trim switch. I’m a fan of the dual switch used on commercial jets.

<snip>
Like we use a stick grip. She needs that series of controls available for her immediate control.

<snip>

Agree. If they have the Skyview HDX with AFS ACM and PH Aviation Flap motor (same as mine) it also has sequential flap positions and runaway trim protection.

 

[jessicas_other_half]

Put together a cardboard cockpit with all the components double stick taped in place. I have most components from the HDX panel down to toggle switches as jpegs. Happy to share the files. I printed and laminated them for my pretending. I sat and moved them around making airplane noises till the flow seemed logical for me.

We rescued an RV-10 fuselage from the scrap yard (which was actually quite hard to find), and we're using it as a 1:1 test bed. Does anyone have 3D print files of AFS buttons/panels/switches? We could tape those in for tactile feedback.

We also have the goal of converting this into a sim so everyone else can give it a try too.

 

[wirejock]

We rescued an RV-10 fuselage from the scrap yard (which was actually quite hard to find), and we're using it as a 1:1 test bed. Does anyone have 3D print files of AFS buttons/panels/switches? We could tape those in for tactile feedback.

We also have the goal of converting this into a sim so everyone else can give it a try too.

I have Dynon HDX, Dynon mini panels (horiz & vert), Honeywell toggles and headphone jacks. Easy to print and laminate.
If you need them, send an e-mail.
Wirejock at yahoo dot com