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Looking to buy an RV-12iS

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Frostbite023

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Looking for a little perspective here before I really jump in with both feet. I'm looking for a fun, economical plane to do a mixture of time building, fun flying, and flying for work (1.5 hour flight from Vegas to Bishop, CA).

Naturally I landed on the RV-12. Doesn't seem like there is anything else out there that beats it on fuel economy, price, looks, and capabilities. Looking around it seems the prices range from $120k to around $150k for well equipped and newer ones. But I just saw on Indy Air Sales they have a brand new RV-12iS for $104k, painted and with a full Garmin setup.

So my question is, am I crazy for not jumping on this right now? Price seems too good to be true. Obviously I would get a pre-buy (also required by the lender I spoke to). Or is this a price that seems reasonable? FOMO is really getting at me on this one, especially since I was in early talks for different one that was listed for $120k and that seemed like a smoking deal at the time. Someone please tell me I'm not crazy (or that I am).
 
I would have said that the price sounds good, but I am the owner/builder of a 10 yr old legacy -12, and thus really don't have a great insight on the -12iS market. On the other hand, the price of airplanes of all kinds have been climbing better than a lightly loaded plane at Vy on a cold winter day.
 
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Frostbite023 said:
Looking for a little perspective here before I really jump in with both feet. I'm looking for a fun, economical plane to do a mixture of time building, fun flying, and flying for work (1.5 hour flight from Vegas to Bishop, CA).

Naturally I landed on the RV-12. Doesn't seem like there is anything else out there that beats it on fuel economy, price, looks, and capabilities. Looking around it seems the prices range from $120k to around $150k for well equipped and newer ones. But I just saw on Indy Air Sales they have a brand new RV-12iS for $104k, painted and with a full Garmin setup.

So my question is, am I crazy for not jumping on this right now? Price seems too good to be true. Obviously I would get a pre-buy (also required by the lender I spoke to). Or is this a price that seems reasonable? FOMO is really getting at me on this one, especially since I was in early talks for different one that was listed for $120k and that seemed like a smoking deal at the time. Someone please tell me I'm not crazy (or that I am).
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I spoke with Indy Air about this plane...It is an IS model and was teen built...It has a very Amateurish paint job according to them...I think he called it a 20 footer...The price reflects the paint job...If you don't care about how the aircraft looks this is a good deal...The annual condition inspection is due by the end of the month...
 
ralpheeralph said:
The annual condition inspection is due by the end of the month...
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This would be a worthwhile consideration at $104k!

With the condition inspection due at this time negotiate in the inspection must be performed and that, as a buyer, you can assist (for familiarization and learning purposes).

Don't let it get away. Jump on it!
 
ralpheeralph said:
I spoke with Indy Air about this plane...It is an IS model and was teen built...It has a very Amateurish paint job according to them...I think he called it a 20 footer...The price reflects the paint job...If you don't care about how the aircraft looks this is a good deal...The annual condition inspection is due by the end of the month...
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This is really good info, thank you! I would assume that the "teens" had someone competent looking over their shoulder during the build process so that part doesn't concern me so much. Plus the pre-buy will hopefully identify any issues. And I doubt I'll ever be flying to Oshkosh and entering it into a contest so the paint is a non-issue.
 
Amadeus said:
This would be a worthwhile consideration at $104k!

With the condition inspection due at this time negotiate in the inspection must be performed and that, as a buyer, you can assist (for familiarization and learning purposes).

Don't let it get away. Jump on it!
Click to expand...
Reaching out to lenders today! I'll take any suggestions. So far I've spoken with "The Aircraft Lenders", they quoted me at 8.79% for 15 years. They said it's an extra point on the interest and max 15 years since it's an experimental. Anyone got some leads on 20-30 year terms and/or lower rates?
 
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Lightstream has a 12 year 7.99% for $100k. I used them for multiple purchases in the past with like zero paperwork. Money was in my account within hours. Perfect credit. YMMV. I was very happy with them.

Edit I didn't read you're looking for 20-30 year.
 
Eriselle said:
That price is suspiciously low.
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I agree. Currently building my RV-12is no. 121215, planning on double Dynon HDX 10”. Expecting to spend (just for the parts) some 40,000 USD (from 2020) for the frame, 50,000 USD (from 2024) for the engine kit with prop and another 30,000 USD for avionics (not yet bought). No paint applied.
Is the paint job so bad that it decreases the price of the parts alone or is it rather build quality?
I suggest you get a good and very skeptical look at it. Maybe you are lucky and the owner just needs to get rid of the plane fast….keeping my fingers crossed for you.
 
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Having worked with a teen program, I suggest if it's possible talking with the leader of the teen program that built the aircraft. Some programs have many experienced builders serving as mentors, but not every program has that level of expertise available. While the price seems a little low against today's prices, it's still higher than the cost I estimated for my dual Dynon HDX build when I started it a few years ago. Some programs purchase all the kits at the beginning which would easily account for a lower cost product. A thorough prebuy from a trusted A&P experienced with the RV-12iS should help you sleep better. Price alone doesn't really tell you anything about quality.
 
Frostbite023 said:
Reaching out to lenders today! I'll take any suggestions. So far I've spoken with "The Aircraft Lenders", they quoted me at 8.79% for 15 years. They said it's an extra point on the interest and max 15 years since it's an experimental. Anyone got some leads on 20-30 year terms and/or lower rates?
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If you can swing it at 8.79% on 15 years then perhaps you could do so with refinancing in mind when rates eventually come down. Perhaps a second mortgage or HELOC to get 20-30 year term? Home prices have increased so much in the past few years the equity may be there for you to do something like this.
 
Frostbite023 said:
Looking for a little perspective here before I really jump in with both feet. I'm looking for a fun, economical plane to do a mixture of time building, fun flying, and flying for work (1.5 hour flight from Vegas to Bishop, CA).

Naturally I landed on the RV-12. Doesn't seem like there is anything else out there that beats it on fuel economy, price, looks, and capabilities. Looking around it seems the prices range from $120k to around $150k for well equipped and newer ones. But I just saw on Indy Air Sales they have a brand new RV-12iS for $104k, painted and with a full Garmin setup.

So my question is, am I crazy for not jumping on this right now? Price seems too good to be true. Obviously I would get a pre-buy (also required by the lender I spoke to). Or is this a price that seems reasonable? FOMO is really getting at me on this one, especially since I was in early talks for different one that was listed for $120k and that seemed like a smoking deal at the time. Someone please tell me I'm not crazy (or that I am).
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It currently cost around$150K to build a E-LSA 12-IS. That does not include paint or the IFR package.
 
Amadeus said:
If you can swing it at 8.79% on 15 years then perhaps you could do so with refinancing in mind when rates eventually come down. Perhaps a second mortgage or HELOC to get 20-30 year term? Home prices have increased so much in the past few years the equity may be there for you to do something like this.
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Yea that's actually not a bad idea with the HELOC. Fortunately we bought a home here in Vegas in 2020 so we have a good chunk of equity. From my limited research it seems they are easier to get as well compared to all the requirements for an actual aircraft loan.
 
ravenstar said:
Having worked with a teen program, I suggest if it's possible talking with the leader of the teen program that built the aircraft. Some programs have many experienced builders serving as mentors, but not every program has that level of expertise available. While the price seems a little low against today's prices, it's still higher than the cost I estimated for my dual Dynon HDX build when I started it a few years ago. Some programs purchase all the kits at the beginning which would easily account for a lower cost product. A thorough prebuy from a trusted A&P experienced with the RV-12iS should help you sleep better. Price alone doesn't really tell you anything about quality.
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Great suggestion, hopefully the broker has that information available. I'm reaching out to them today to see if I can get a little more insight on everything.
 
ralpheeralph said:
I spoke with Indy Air about this plane...It is an IS model and was teen built...It has a very Amateurish paint job according to them...I think he called it a 20 footer...The price reflects the paint job...If you don't care about how the aircraft looks this is a good deal...The annual condition inspection is due by the end of the month...
Click to expand...
If the paint job is "amateurish", I'd question the build quality too.
 
Do you think the school might get some state and/or local government help in funding a project like this - such as grant money? The school doesn’t have to make a profit on the sale, they just need seed money to fund the next project, along with more grant money since the existing project was a success. Many students learned something that helped pave the way to a possible career. That very thing is going on here at Butler Tech, in Butler County, Ohio - RV12 build. Several members in our local EAA chapter are providing classroom guidance during build sessions. When finished, that airplane will be sold to fund another.
 
I have concerns that there's more here than just a bad paint job.

I'm building an RV-12iS that I started in 2017 when prices were, shall we say, different than the last few years.

According to my builder log, I'm currently at $102,718.38 which includes the cost of complying with a few SBs. It has a dual screen G3X package with auto.

There's no paint on it.

As it's a team build, MAYBE someone bought the kits for the sponsoring organization for a tax write-off so the organization can still turn a profit at 104.

I wouldn't start working on financing unless it's to hire a top-notch DAR-type to go give it a look and going over.

At least ask for the builder log.
 
Eriselle said:
If the paint job is "amateurish", I'd question the build quality too.
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I wouldn't make this assumption. I've seen builds where the builder was a perfectionist every step of the way but they just didn't have fiberglass skills. Paint is not the easiest thing to do, either, which is why Evoke has a two year plus waitlist.
 
Eriselle said:
If the paint job is "amateurish", I'd question the build quality too.
Click to expand...

Amadeus said:
I wouldn't make this assumption. I've seen builds where the builder was a perfectionist every step of the way but they just didn't have fiberglass skills. Paint is not the easiest thing to do, either, which is why Evoke has a two year plus waitlist.
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This was my train of thought as well. I have decent mechanical skills but I'm basically a kindergartener with crayons when it comes to anything that requires a fine touch artistically.

I'm working on getting a HELOC right now to pursue this further. If it's still there when I get everything finalized I fully intend to start negotiating and getting a pre-buy scheduled. If it doesn't work out then at least I've got the HELOC squared away and I'll be ready to jump on the next thing.
 
I believe Vans gives RV12 school programs a significant discount (they would get a tax break)which may explain at least in part, the lower than market price. The state may also waive taxes for this type of programs/school purchases. Finally, the school is likely only looking to recover its cost and not an addition cent more (for legal reasons, they may be incentive not to collect more). In contrast, builders likely mark up to tools and other variable costs that school is not seeking to recover. Note that the odds it has flown off its initial requirements are zero.
 
Frostbite023 said:
Looking for a little perspective here before I really jump in with both feet. I'm looking for a fun, economical plane to do a mixture of time building, fun flying, and flying for work (1.5 hour flight from Vegas to Bishop, CA).

Naturally I landed on the RV-12. Doesn't seem like there is anything else out there that beats it on fuel economy, price, looks, and capabilities. Looking around it seems the prices range from $120k to around $150k for well equipped and newer ones. But I just saw on Indy Air Sales they have a brand new RV-12iS for $104k, painted and with a full Garmin setup.

So my question is, am I crazy for not jumping on this right now? Price seems too good to be true. Obviously I would get a pre-buy (also required by the lender I spoke to). Or is this a price that seems reasonable? FOMO is really getting at me on this one, especially since I was in early talks for different one that was listed for $120k and that seemed like a smoking deal at the time. Someone please tell me I'm not crazy (or that I am).
Click to expand...
Hi, I'm currently building an RV 12is in Henderson (Sun City Anthem) if you want to see one underconstruction. [email protected]
 
So unfortunately the school/builder decided to take back the plane, literally 1 day before I got my financing secured so that was a bummer. Broker said they are going to repaint and use as a demo. I offered full price if he got it back but they still refused. Got a couple leads though on some others that might be coming to market so I guess I'll just be patient. They did list another one from the school but it's unpainted and $130K so I'm on the fence about that one.
 
I'm building one. I expect it will be done and tested by end of 2025. I plan to sell at the cost of parts and paint. DM me if you are interested.
 
Frostbite023 said:
So unfortunately the school/builder decided to take back the plane, literally 1 day before I got my financing secured so that was a bummer. Broker said they are going to repaint and use as a demo. I offered full price if he got it back but they still refused. Got a couple leads though on some others that might be coming to market so I guess I'll just be patient. They did list another one from the school but it's unpainted and $130K so I'm on the fence about that one.
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Sorry to hear this for you. I have been checking back to this forum hoping to see that you successfully purchased this aircraft. It was a great opportunity!
 
New and exciting update! I will be signing a purchase agreement this evening with a gentleman that is selling his RV-12iS. I have had some pretty good conversations with him and I think we landed on a fair price. With that being said, does anyone have a recommendation for someplace that does pre-buy inspections near Cleveland/Toledo OH or even near Detroit, MI? I have 30 days to do it but I'm trying to get it completed ASAP. I am sure he has his own mechanic (the annual was completed recently) but everywhere I have read it says don't use the same A&P that did the annual. Although if I'm being honest I don't really see why because if anyone has intimate knowledge of the the aircraft it would be them and I don't see why they would be biased to give me a sugar coated report unless they are friends with the seller. Also, has anyone done some really long cross countries in their RV-12? Any tips? I'm looking at about 16 hours to get it back here. Finally, if anyone knows a CFI that can give me a checkout in an RV-12 that would be appreciated. Insurance company requires it before I can start the policy. Thanks!

Edit: Looking for a CFI in the Las Vegas area for checkout purposes. They will need to provide the aircraft.
 
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Frostbite023 said:
New and exciting update! I will be signing a purchase agreement this evening with a gentleman that is selling his RV-12iS. I have had some pretty good conversations with him and I think we landed on a fair price. With that being said, does anyone have a recommendation for someplace that does pre-buy inspections near Cleveland/Toledo OH or even near Detroit, MI? I have 30 days to do it but I'm trying to get it completed ASAP. I am sure he has his own mechanic (the annual was completed recently) but everywhere I have read it says don't use the same A&P that did the annual. Although if I'm being honest I don't really see why because if anyone has intimate knowledge of the the aircraft it would be them and I don't see why they would be biased to give me a sugar coated report unless they are friends with the seller. Also, has anyone done some really long cross countries in their RV-12? Any tips? I'm looking at about 16 hours to get it back here. Finally, if anyone knows a CFI that can give me a checkout in an RV-12 that would be appreciated. Insurance company requires it before I can start the policy. Thanks!
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I don't know if he does pre-buys, but Tony Kirk is based in the Toledo area. He's an A&P, DAR, former Van's employee, and is currently building a 12. If he's available, that would be my first choice.
 
Well tomorrow is the big day! Pre-buy was completed last Friday and everything looked great. Tires are worn but they're going to flip them to the unworn side so I'm good with that. I just want to at least lay eyes on the plane before letting the escrow company send off the wire. If all goes well I'll be on my way home with my new plane tomorrow! Any advice for an 18 hour cross country trip? KPCW to KHND.
 
Congrats, again!

After a first flight with multiple legs across the country you will be highly familiar with your new bird. A westward route this time of year will have you fighting headwinds at times and you may encounter cold fronts causing convection. Just allow yourself the time necessary to spend some of it on the ground. Be sure to have some snacks like nuts and berries as well as water. Aircraft Spruce has some crystalizing bags, Walmart has Depends or you could just have an empty Gatorade bottle along so you won't have to make an unscheduled stop in the middle of a CAVU leg. Maybe even some music to Bluetooth to your headset.

Take a look at flyunleaded.com if you will be trying to fly with no leaded fuel. Many trips it is actually possible.

Enjoy your adventure!
 
Frostbite023 said:
Any advice
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You should be able to cruise at 4900 rpm on 4 gallons per hour at a true airspeed of 105 knots or 5000 rpm on 4.1 gph at TAS of 109 kt. Use 4.2 gph for planning.

You can certainly cruise at 3.6 gph but TAS will be in high 90 kts adding more time to your 18 your trip.

Hopefully the seller has fresh oil for you. If he has been burning 100LL the oil changes are 25 hours. An 18 hour trip can easily become over 20 hours. You will not be wanting to change the oil along the way. If necessary there are airports, like Mexico, Missouri and Hays, Kansas, that have many experimental aircraft hangared so there will be shops that would have the AeroShell Sport Plus4 on the shelf. Your route won't be passing me or I would offer my tools and help but I'm sure others here along your route would make the same offer if you were in need.

Once home I highly recommend going unleaded only and doing 50 hour oil changes. Airframes Alaska (or whatever their new name change is) sells a 5 gallon fuel bladder that is flat when empty. I purchased two so that when I am in an area without an airport offering unleaded then I borrow the crew car to make a gas station run. My -12iS has almost 450 hours now and has never had lead running through its veins.
 
It's up to you, but the advice given regarding oil change intervals is half of what the Rotax documentation recommends. You can change it as often as you want, but concern about coming close to half the recommended interval in order to accomplish a ferry is not warranted. You have a long ferry with enough to focus on. Of course, this assumes an oil change has been done recently or as a maintenance item before the plane changes hands.

Good luck on the trip, and enjoy the plane!

Screenshot 2025-09-17 at 6.08.35 AM.png
 
N8DAV8R said:
It's up to you, but the advice given regarding oil change intervals is half of what the Rotax documentation recommends.
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I got these values from Rotax in Section 3 of the SI-912-016 rev 4 dated 8-2011. It does say to change oil at 25 hour intervals for Avgas use. It says by the latest of 50 hrs, but Rotax recommend 25 hrs. But, again, it is up to the owner/pilot.
 
Amadeus said:
I got these values from Rotax in Section 3 of the SI-912-016 rev 4 dated 8-2011. It does say to change oil at 25 hr. intervals for Avgas use. It says by the latest of 50 hrs, but they recommend 25 hrs.
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Well, like I said you can change it as often as you want and it's not going to hurt anything if you change it more often than recommended. You could change it every 5 hours and this would still be true.

As far as the document you are citing, it is 14 years old. That one was published before the engine applicable to this thread (912is) was even being sold. As decades pass, manufacturers get more data and are able to revise intervals. I would recommend that referring to current documents is generally the best practice.

The specific SI you are quoting (rev 4), the current version of "Selection of suitable operating fluids for all ROTAX 4-stroke Aircraft Engines" was published last year as a revision to Rev 17. In the past there was some conflicting guidance, which will also be the case if you compare documents with multi-year gaps in publish date. The current document points back to the MM and does not create the conflict that was discussed in the early 2010s.
 

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Thanks for all the advice everyone. I was able to stop at KMYJ and fill up with mogas on my first leg. Unfortunately a line of thunderstorms made me divert to the south and I ended up going to OKC and I'm getting 100LL here and at my next stop. I will definitely be running mogas though after I get back to Vegas. I love that bladder idea Amadeus! I'll definitely be buying a couple of those.

Unfortunately I have had a couple electrical issues that popped up right before I got to my first stop. First, the EFIS Batt Volt randomly dropped to zero and then had some major fluctuations before settling back into the green. It also happened on takeoff but once again settled back into the green and its been steady since. Then, the lane b fault light came on during descent at the first stop and I got an ECU fail alert on the PFD. I reset it and it went away but then it came back later during the flight to the next stop. When I switch off lane B I do see a slight drop in RPM so Im assuming it's still working even though the fault light is on. It seemed to come on during high RPM times, then when I reduced the RPM and reset it, the fault turned off. Zero issues during runup and when I did a few laps in the pattern with the buyer nothing came up. Any ideas?
 
Frostbite023 said:
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I was able to stop at KMYJ and fill up with mogas on my first leg. Unfortunately a line of thunderstorms made me divert to the south and I ended up going to OKC and I'm getting 100LL here and at my next stop. I will definitely be running mogas though after I get back to Vegas. I love that bladder idea Amadeus! I'll definitely be buying a couple of those.

Unfortunately I have had a couple electrical issues that popped up right before I got to my first stop. First, the EFIS Batt Volt randomly dropped to zero and then had some major fluctuations before settling back into the green. It also happened on takeoff but once again settled back into the green and it’s been steady since. Then, the lane b fault light came on during descent at the first stop and I got an ECU fail alert on the PFD. I reset it and it went away but then it came back later during the flight to the next stop. When I switch off lane B I do see a slight drop in RPM so Im assuming it's still working even though the fault light is on. It seemed to come on during high RPM times, then when I reduced the RPM and reset it, the fault turned off. Zero issues during runup and when I did a few laps in the pattern with the buyer nothing came up. Any ideas?
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I should probably post the issues I’m having as a separate thread.
 
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Check this Van's video for instructions on diagnosing lane faults. Works for Dynon or Garmin. The fault has to be "on" for this to work. Otherwise you need a Rotax dongle.
 
Took a picture, I'm guessing this is the problem. Now to solve to fluctuations on the EFIS Batt V.
 

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If you're going to be burning some 100LL (e.g. to cope with density altitude issues), get some Decalin.
 
Frostbite023 said:
s for all the advice everyone. I was able to stop at KMYJ and fill up with mogas on my first leg. Unfortunately a line of thunderstorms made me divert to the south and I ended up going to OKC and I'm getting 100LL here and at my next stop. I will definitely be running mogas though after I get back to Vegas. I love that bladder idea Amadeus! I'll definitely be buying a couple of those.

Unfortunately I have had a couple electrical issues that popped up right before I got to my first stop. First, the EFIS Batt Volt randomly dropped to zero and then had some major fluctuations before settling back into the green. It also happened
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For the EFIS ... sounds like a loose wire or a pin that has backed out of the DB9 connector to the EFIS battery behind the PFD screen.

Either the manifold air temp or pressure sensors have known (Rotax) issues with their connectors (i forget if it was temp or pressure).. They are the easiest sensors to get to and change out.. At worst, its a new sensor and you'll spend more time removing the cowl than actually changing the sensor.. at best its just a loose connector wire.

A couple gremlins to work out.. but these sound like easy ones.

-rob
 
Any updates on the issue?

Thoughts on your -12iS following your long cross-country flight?

Having the RV grin?
 
Amadeus said:
Any updates on the issue?

Thoughts on your -12iS following your long cross-country flight?

Having the RV grin?
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Well I took it to the local Rotax shop to get the oil changed and to check on the EFIS battery issue and lane B issue. Successfully got the oil changed, but the BUDS wouldn't connect. The mechanic feels that the issue is probably related to that switched up wiring that was referenced in a prior thread. He wasn't sure how to get to the wiring without removing the fuselage cover above the dash which would also require removing the canopy. I elected not to do it at that time since but I'll be bringing it back at another time to get that done so he can download the data, diagnose the problem hopefully, and fix it. I'm hoping it's just the sensor and loose wire like @rcarsey was mentioning and it can be easily fixed. I was thinking about removing the PFD myself and looking for loose wires but I'll be honest, I wouldn't really know where to look and I'm a little nervous that I'll accidentally dislodge something and make the problem worse.
 
Frostbite023 said:
Well I took it to the local Rotax shop to get the oil changed and to check on the EFIS battery issue and lane B issue. Successfully got the oil changed, but the BUDS wouldn't connect. The mechanic feels that the issue is probably related to that switched up wiring that was referenced in a prior thread. He wasn't sure how to get to the wiring without removing the fuselage cover above the dash which would also require removing the canopy. I elected not to do it at that time since but I'll be bringing it back at another time to get that done so he can download the data, diagnose the problem hopefully, and fix it. I'm hoping it's just the sensor and loose wire like @rcarsey was mentioning and it can be easily fixed. I was thinking about removing the PFD myself and looking for loose wires but I'll be honest, I wouldn't really know where to look and I'm a little nervous that I'll accidentally dislodge something and make the problem worse.
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This is really easy to get to if you remove the PFD. The plug for the dongle is right there behind the PFD and is easy to reach. You will need a D-sub pin extractor. This is a $5 tool and a 10-15 minute job.

The wires are probably switched, but based on what you are describing I would first verify that they have the backup battery power switch (bottom of center console) turned on. This powers up the ECU which is also necessary for the dongle to work.
 
N8DAV8R said:
I would first verify that they have the backup battery power switch (bottom of center console) turned on. This powers up the ECU which is also necessary for the dongle to work.
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I have never had to use the backup battery power switch to use my dongle. Just master and lanes.
 
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