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I wonder if the insurers will be okay with this. One way to find out…
Not that it should matter anyway, but you tell your insurance company who does your inspections?
Of course not. I’m talking about what future policy language may look like in a world where a bunch of nonbuilders are taking a 16-hour course then doing their own condition inspections year after year. Not sure I’d want to insure those hulls at the same rate as an airplane annually inspected by a professional with (at least) an A&P.
I think people fail to realize. An inspection is not the repair or remedy of those items found to be out of compliance on the inspection. It’s simply the inspection. And those items found can be remedied by anyone ( this existed before this change today). So I fail to see why this has any new effect on insurance requirementsOf course not. I’m talking about what future policy language may look like in a world where a bunch of nonbuilders are taking a 16-hour course then doing their own condition inspections year after year. Not sure I’d want to insure those hulls at the same rate as an airplane annually inspected by a professional with (at least) an A&P.
Perhaps the insurers will start requiring “A&P assisted owner inspections”
The rule is built on the experience fromOf course not. I’m talking about what future policy language may look like in a world where a bunch of nonbuilders are taking a 16-hour course then doing their own condition inspections year after year. Not sure I’d want to insure those hulls at the same rate as an airplane annually inspected by a professional with (at least) an A&P.
Perhaps the insurers will start requiring “A&P assisted owner inspections”
Yeah, this is my point. Not saying it will definitely happen.
It won’t necessarily have any effect. But I think a world where inspections are mostly done by A&Ps and IAs is likely to be safer than a world in which huge numbers of inspections are done by 16-hour wonders on their own aircraft. I could well be wrong.
If you read thru the very long FAA document that was published today, they seem to disagree. Mostly due to a&p ia being more familiar with certified requirements, airplanes, etc and less with LSA and eab. Further suggesting that LSA and eab were closer in similarity and was some of the impetus of the change.
Have you ever looked at how inexpensive existing LSA/sport pilot insurance rates are today? I'm not sure this really changes that much.
A gray area here. Specs like stall speed are not part of the certification process. I believe that gross weight was the only data supplied to the faa when obtaining a spc aw cert.
Scares me a bit. 16 hours doesn’t seem like enough knowledge transfer to effectively complete a solid inspection. That said it is the standard in the lsa world, so they have data on losses. I suspect no change, just as basic med didn’t change anything.
ThT is true. However repairs don’t prevent accidents due to mechanical failure. Inspections do that. The whole point of routine inspections is to catch things before they hurt people or damage properly. Yes, one could argue that poor work creates failures, but we have plenty of professionals doing poor work. The real benefits when discussing the savings from bodily hatm and property damage is from regular inspections.
This I fully agree with and seen it first hand. Major hole needing to be filled here. Just concerned that a 16 hour course, likely with a quarter of it dedicated to regs and other junk, is not enough to make one competent to complete them. You see the kind of questions we get here from buyers. Think about allyou learned building and maintaining your plane and how it makes you competent to truly find things in a ci. Now imagine what someone will learn in 16 hours, with their core skill set not really extending beyond oil changes. Remember that this is an faa type course, so 4 hours on regs and at least two hours on safety wire.
Actually, no, I've never looked at a light sport plane/sport pilot. I got my ticket in gliders 25 years ago and moved into certified power planes in 2005.
When I first heard of the LSA Repairman M/I certification years ago, I kept re-reading it thinking I was misunderstanding. Surely the “Inspection” 16 hour course was an add-on… AFTER passing the 15 day maintenance course! But nope! I always thought that was dumb. I get the explanations, but my brain still says “that ain’t right!”
Insurer and insured often interpret their insurance policies differently. Sometimes one doesn't find out out an insurance company's bottom-line policy exclusions until your claim is denied.
Sadly, a true statement. This where a good agent, or broker in our case, really adds value. They see all that on a regular basis and a good one will process it all and store as knowledge and help guide and inform their their clients. Many don't, so choose wisely.
Lisa told me she prefers to be taken to a doctor for any repairs she may need.
I'm going through that right now with my plane, trying to negotiate something with my insurer.
You can fly at night with training, an endorsement, and a medical certificate or Basic Med. It's all explained starting in this section
Which is completely useless (even though the FAA bends over backwards to claim otherwise in the document). If a sport pilot has a third class medical or BasicMed, they’d be better off just taking a PPL checkride and getting rid of all the sport restrictions at once. That’s what I’d do if it were me, anyway…
So you think that getting a few hours of training and an endorsement to fly at night (maybe $500 total and could be done in less than a week) costs the same as a minimum of 20 more flight hours and a DPE checkride to get the PPL? That would take months and be around $3000 easily. What am I missing in your thoughts?
I was talking about the privileges of sport pilot with a drivers license medical instead of the burden of pursuing an FAA medical. Someone who can obtain a medical or BasicMed is much better off just taking the private pilot checkride and enjoying the expanded privileges.
I was just addressing the "no night" part of your comment. Regarding your comment about a Sport Pilot being better off getting the PPL vs an endorsement to fly at night, I addressed that a few minutes ago. Not everyone has the time or money or needs more than a Sport Pilot certificate. Me, I'm a glutton for knowledge and have ATPs in 3 countries and a lot of CFI certs, but I had the means and the time.
Worth noting, the minimum requirements to earn sport pilot or private pilot certificates are typically not representative of the actual time. The minimum of 20h and 40h respectively is effectively "on paper" and not in reality. Training to proficiency could easily take a sport pilot 40h or more. The other requirements could easily be incorporated into that additional time. Fly a slightly longer XC, to private pilot standards, etc.
Even if that representative pilot didn't get his Sport Pilot at 20 hours and it took him 40 hours, if he were to continue to PPL, it doesn't change what I said previously : you would still need a "...minimum of 20 more flight hours and a DPE checkride to get the PPL..."., because if it took him 40 hours to learn the basic Sport Pilot training, he's not going to complete the PPL training in 20 hours more.
Wait a minute - does a sport pilot not need to take a checkride with an examiner, or are those examiners just a lot cheaper for some reason?
correct
And that cost is why getting that night endorsement makes it the simple choice for Sport Pilots.
It depends.
anyone, even non pilotcan take the 15 day lsrm course and be a “mini me” a&p on any e-ab sel plane of the new lsa definition. amazing to non-builder owners and to bump the supply of a/p eligible condition inspectors.
I'm just saying - there are DPEs in my area that are approved to give most if not all of the common airplane (and sometimes glider) checkrides. I think they do primarily private/commercial and instructor checkrides, but are also authorized for sport pilot. Now if there are DPEs out there that only give sport pilot checkrides (and I would be surprised if there were many of these), I could see them being cheaper.
It really depends on the pilot and instructor and i think a lot has to do with the students commitment. If you show up well prepared, things go quickly. If you expect the instructor to teach you everything, it goes slower. Pretty much everything my cfi taught or asked I already knew and he would always say are you sure you’re not with the faa? I got the sense that i was the first student he ever had that prepared/ learned everything before it was taught to me. I got my ppl years ago in 41 hours logged. My son did it 5 years ago in our 6a in 42 hours. Though in fairness , he was given 4 hours of instruction on how to land an rv (no touching of the nosewheel) before being handed off to the cfi. So it is realistic. I suspect some cfis may drag things out due to either being conservative or padding their hours. It took my other son considerably longer with a different instructor that seemed to want to repeat everything. I wasn’t there so can’t really say whether or not that was necessary.
Thank you, Brian. Your post captures exactly what I’ve been thinking.
This is one of those changes that I think had good intentions but has a real good possibility of creating a bad outcome. I have pretty good short term rote memory. I'm willing to bet I can pass that 2 weeks course and right after I'll be able to sign off condition inspections on E-ABs that aren't mine. What could go wrong ?
Sorry you apparently missed your opportunity during the comment period. It's aviation, you could have informed the FAA about all kinds of things with the potential for a bad outcome! They probably shouldn't allow GA activities at all considering what could go wrong.This is one of those changes that I think had good intentions but has a real good possibility of creating a bad outcome. I have pretty good short term rote memory. I'm willing to bet I can pass that 2 weeks course and right after I'll be able to sign off condition inspections on E-ABs that aren't mine. What could go wrong ?
Actually I did comment, but not regarding mechanics things because that's not my expertise. Since you seem to be an expert on this, I'd appreciate you telling me why my comment is incorrect, so I can learn.Sorry you apparently missed your opportunity during the comment period. It's aviation, you could have informed the FAA about all kinds of things with the potential for a bad outcome! They probably shouldn't allow GA activities at all considering what could go wrong.
